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Subject: According to Cryptum, The Terminals are now wrong?(SPOILERS)

RIP - The Rev: February 9, 1981 – December 28, 2009
RIP - Mitch Lucker: October 20, 1984 - November 1, 2012
RIP - Dimebag Darrell: August 20, 1966 – December 8, 2004
RIP - Ronny James Dio: July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010

Must.. leave.. this... forum.. save... Cryptum....

  • 01.08.2011 7:27 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: privet caboose
MB was obviously a part of the Ark at this point. Who's to say he didn't modify it?

We also know nothing of the Arks Monitor at the time, who's to say he didn't modify these logs or terminals either?

Hell, this was only the first book, everything can still be explained within the next two books.

But the time that the book puts Didact in his Cryptum completely throws off much of the timeline for the Forerunner Flood war. Maybe your right and the next books will explain it away, I just don't like the fact that every new story that is being made, Reach now Cryptum, is slowly chipping away at the story line that we have all come to be so familiar with.

Although if I accept the changes that are being made or if they are fixed in later books I have to say. It was a fantastic story that required you to really understand a lot about canon to truly understand the story.

[Edited on 01.08.2011 7:46 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2011 7:38 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: ODST27
Posted by: dibbs089
However, in Terminal Seven, as Mendicant crosses the line Didact (who, if we follow the book would now be Bornsteller) states And [300 years] of our society's failure and miscalculation makes me your executioner. But this occurred after he entered the Cryptum. Shouldn't it be 1,300 years of our societies failures? It seems in the terminals that the Forerunner war against the Flood lasted 300 years whereas in the book it has lasted over 1,300 years.
When does the book say 1300 years? Also, has it been totally confirmed that LF.Xx.3272 is the gravemind? After rereading the terminals, I almost think it could be that Precursor prisoner. Here's what I think happened:

10,000 BC (Before Cryptum) - Forerunners learn about the Flood after they defeat Humanity
10-9,000 BC- Mendicant Bias is built to study LF.Xx.3272
9,000 BC - Didact is sent to his Cryptum
~9,000 - 0 BC - MB talks with LF.Xx.3272 and turns on the Forerunner
< 300 BC* - The Flood return and the Forerunners start fighting
0 BC - Cryptum events
< 300 AC* (After Cryptum) - Librarian is trapped on Earth
- Didact fires the Halo rings
- Offensive Bias defeats MB at the Battle of the Ark

* I say "< 300 BC/AD" because the Librarian says they've been fighting the Flood for the past 300 years, and that obviously takes place after Cryptum. So the war, Cryptum, and some Terminals encompass some span of 300 years.
Based on the quotes from my previous post, Didact had to have had a hand in creating Mendicant Bias (proved through both quotes in the book and the terminals). He could not have created Mendicant after his release from the Cryptum (has was on the run the entire time) and he was in the Crytpum for 1,000 years (I do not have the exact source for this because I don't want to go through 300 pages to find the quote but it is 1,000 years, I promise you). Based solely on the terminals, it seems the Forerunner were fighting the Flood 300 years prior to Mendicants creation (which again had to have happened before he entered the Cryptum and proved by the Terminal quotes). Thus, if we go on the information from the book, the Forerunner have been fighting the Flood for at least 1,000 years. If we go on the information from the terminals and the book, they have been fighting the Flood for at least 1,300 years. If we go solely by the terminals they have been fighting the Flood for 300 years.

The problem with your timeline is that Didact was not in the Cryptum for 9,000 years. Additionally, based solely on the books we cannot put an exact date as to when Mendicant was created (though we know he is at least 1,000 years old). Based solely on the terminals he is 300 years old (around the time Cryptum ends). Based on the books and the terminals, he is around 1,300 years old (when Cryptum ends).

It has not been confirmed that LF.Xx.3272 is the Gravemind. However, after Mendicants conversation with LF he emerged allied with the Flood. LF is obviously an agent working for the Flood and most likely one that can think independently (instead of being controlled by the hivemind). The only being we know of that is capable of doing that within the Flood is the Gravemind. (Then again, LF could be the captive who has been theorized but not confirmed to be both a Precursor and the Gravemind).

[Edited on 01.08.2011 8:27 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2011 8:22 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Caboose, this is addressed specifically to you - I think this was the best Halo book written. I loved just about everything it had to say. I really have no desire to have its validity called into question but I was trying to get as close to the truth as possible in my post. That being said there are some issues the could cause discrepancies in the future. If we take both the terminals and the book as accurate there are a few problems (namely Didacts age, whether or not he ever entered the Cryptum, and the length of the Forerunner/Flood War) but they become much worse if we take only the book as accurate or only the terminals as accurate.

Posted by: privet caboose
MB was obviously a part of the Ark at this point. Who's to say he didn't modify it?

We also know nothing of the Arks Monitor at the time, who's to say he didn't modify these logs or terminals either?
This is essentially the largest cop out available on these forums (when used to explain an event). Besides being poor storytelling, someone "altering the records" has never happened. (I have a pretty good feeling you don't believe the Terminals were edited either). We shouldn't deal with coulda woulda shoulda (unless we're posting a theory) and should instead deal in fact.

  • 01.08.2011 8:56 PM PDT
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One day... I am gonna grow wings... A chemical reaction... Hysterical and useless... hystecial and let down and hanging around... crushed like a bug in the ground.

The Forerunners knew about the Flood for over 1000 years.
The Forerunners fought the Flood for 300 years.
That is my explanation to the issue.
Nobody said that the Forerunners went to war with the Flood as soon as they made contact.

  • 01.08.2011 10:10 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: dibbs089
This is essentially the largest cop out available on these forums (when used to explain an event). Besides being poor storytelling, someone "altering the records" has never happened. (I have a pretty good feeling you don't believe the Terminals were edited either). We shouldn't deal with coulda woulda shoulda (unless we're posting a theory) and should instead deal in fact.


While I agree, as it's essentially an "ONI did it" excuse, it's the best we have to work with and Considering the Terminals are the only place we really got any Forerunner information from, and Bornsteller says what we've been told isn't really the truth, it's the best I can come up with.

  • 01.08.2011 10:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: AngasBoy
The Forerunners knew about the Flood for over 1000 years.
The Forerunners fought the Flood for 300 years.
That is my explanation to the issue.
Nobody said that the Forerunners went to war with the Flood as soon as they made contact.


This


Also I think this explanation is fairly obvious because we have to take the Legends Dvd into account as well , and Cortana is told by the Gravemind , while she is in captivity , that the Forerunners studied the flood for hundreds of years trying to find weaknesses and only after it was to late did they discover the truth....a truth that is not extrapulated on in the movie, it just continues into the war and death part.

[Edited on 01.08.2011 11:10 PM PST]

  • 01.08.2011 11:09 PM PDT

I tell you, we're here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.

in Cryptum at one point (i think its Born talking to his mother, or something like that) that there had been encounters with "the Flood, some sort of interstellar disease that wiped out some outer planets" (not exact quote), and this happened "a long time ago". if someone reminds me, ill get quotes later, its 1:30 am -___-.

anyway, they could have fought the flood for ~300 years on those planets in semi-secrecy, starting at least 1300 years before the events of the book. Then, Didact made MB to seek+destroy the gravemind, but then had to go into exile in the Cryptum because the Council liked the Halo idea better. after his exile, they then commandeered and reprogrammed MB to manage and control the Halos. this would make the part where i think Born says something about MB in the capitol along the lines of it maybe being a "result of conflicting orders from Didact and Faber" that caused him to do this, and then something (inner didact, i think? or ancilla) that he's sophisticated enough to sort out conflicting commands.

This would also (kinda) make sense as far as the librarian trying to save the humans from the flood, because that was outside the outer forerunner colonies that got affected by "the Flood" so she was trying to save the humans from total destruction.

Then you can explain the "anomalies" with the fact that Born essentially said what we already know is "idealized".

  • 01.08.2011 11:50 PM PDT

remember the terminals arnt exaxtly it tip top condition, in my veiw the forerunners tried to explain history differently
as they chose humans as the reclaimers, so they probobly
thought it was best not to mention we destroyed a highly advanced human empire and devolved us. as for the flood again probobly kept a secret to prevent panic. because of the forerunners beleif in the mantle (to protect all life)they were probobly afraid of civil war or mass panic, i mean who wouldnt panic at a huge virus capable of inhabiting the dead and taking control of everything. civil war would be the challenge agianst the halos and possibly the beleif of the flood being life aswell, who knows but thats what why i think
the terminals facts dont exacty fit and the fact of the large
time gap of 300 and a thousand years still has me baffled though

[Edited on 01.09.2011 3:34 AM PST]

  • 01.09.2011 3:31 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: dibbs089
This is essentially the largest cop out available on these forums (when used to explain an event). Besides being poor storytelling, someone "altering the records" has never happened. (I have a pretty good feeling you don't believe the Terminals were edited either). We shouldn't deal with coulda woulda shoulda (unless we're posting a theory) and should instead deal in fact.


While I agree, as it's essentially an "ONI did it" excuse, it's the best we have to work with and Considering the Terminals are the only place we really got any Forerunner information from, and Bornsteller says what we've been told isn't really the truth, it's the best I can come up with.

While I agree with this the point of the thread was merely to say that the Terminals are basically no longer relevant. If they were going to get rid of the Terminals I suppose this was a good way to do it. But I wish the could have found a way to keep them canon.

  • 01.09.2011 10:15 AM PDT

Halo 2, you will be missed 2004-2010
Join teh Floodian resistance!

Now I only read some key points in the book as I got it late yesterday, but I would like to put some input.

Also some questions.

One thing that put me off is how the Forerunners seemed to have hated the humans. Yet by the time of the forerunner's "destruction" humans are now the reclaimers. Since there was human-forerunner war, did the humans share the same fate as the brutes and Deevolved into a primitive species? Then that was discovered by the Librarian and declared reclaimers?

I like how they give the Flood an origin as powder which evolved into something horrible. I didn't like that humans found a cure. Its not that it doesn't make sense, but it gives the feeling that The Flood may not be as powerful as once thought. But that is a miniscule problem, hardly worthy of being called a problem.

Now I would like to suggest that there may be a possibility that the last precursor could become the Gravemind after a Flood attack? I know its kind of out there but I'm just speculating.

[Edited on 01.09.2011 10:32 AM PST]

  • 01.09.2011 10:32 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: Hokage123679
Now I only read some key points in the book as I got it late yesterday, but I would like to put some input.

Also some questions.

One thing that put me off is how the Forerunners seemed to have hated the humans. Yet by the time of the forerunner's "destruction" humans are now the reclaimers. Since there was human-forerunner war, did the humans share the same fate as the brutes and Deevolved into a primitive species? Then that was discovered by the Librarian and declared reclaimers?

I like how they give the Flood an origin as powder which evolved into something horrible. I didn't like that humans found a cure. Its not that it doesn't make sense, but it gives the feeling that The Flood may not be as powerful as once thought. But that is a miniscule problem, hardly worthy of being called a problem.

Now I would like to suggest that there may be a possibility that the last precursor could become the Gravemind after a Flood attack? I know its kind of out there but I'm just speculating.

I'm sure how the humans went from enemy to reclaimer will be explained in the next 2 books.

  • 01.09.2011 11:25 AM PDT

Another thing that confuses me significantly and I find to be a gross inconsistency with the book. Is that in the terminal logs (Terminal 4 and 6 to be specific) There is this log entry/communique from the Librarian.


// FRAGMENT 4/7 [RECORDED VERBATIM AND INTERPRETED POST-CATACLYSM]

L: Something is wrong! It's moving away! At night I can see it - flitting shadows - black against the stars. Thousands of ships! Not spiraling outward, but heading for the line! This is the tipping point, Didact. It's no longer feeding.

It's coming for you.

L: I've remotely destroyed our Keyships. A security measure. Without them I cannot reach the Ark. But neither then can the thing.

I'm trapped. On a beautiful, empty world. Its inhabitants have been safely indexed, every single one of them. They're special - well worth the effort it took to build one final gateway, even at this late hour.

This may be our last communication. I'm begging you. Fire the Array. Light the weapon, and let it be done.

D: We've confirmed your observations. Infected supraluminal ships are arrowing inward from several clusters. No more spiral growth. The thing is counterattacking. Suppression, Security and Emergency Circumstance fleets are all being recalled. Systems are evacuating.

Mendicant Bias is no longer communicating with us.

But now I can guess where you are.

// FRAGMENT ENDS



// BEGIN FRAGMENT 6/7 [RECORDED VERBATIM AND INTERPRETED POST-CATACLYSM]

L: My work is done. The portal is inactive, and I've begun the burial measures. Soon there'll be nothing but sand and rock and normal ferrite signatures.

You should see the mountain that watches over it. A beautiful thing - a snowcapped sentinel. That's where I will spend what time is left to me.

Did I tell you? I built a garden. The earth is so rich. A seed falls and a tree sprouts or a flower blooms. There's so much... potential. We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know.

It's [Eden].

I have to stop transmitting. The thing is listening. Its [thinking dead] are babbling - laughing through every channel they can find.

Be proud. The Mind claims victory, yet it still doesn't suspect. You've outwitted it, my love. And now you can destroy it.

But you cannot save me.

// FRAGMENT ENDS


Now I know it has never been explicitly stated that the Librarian is talking about Earth, but the location of New Mombasa, the mountain (Mount Kilimanjaro), the richness of the soil and the discovery of the race implied to me and many others that the events of Halo 3 (it's location in New Mombasa and Mt. Kilimanjaro in the background) and the terminals were talking about Earth.

I find it hard to see how I can reconcile that with now claims that L has already indexed Erde-Tyrene, left, shut down the portals and moved on.

I will accept that it has never been stated she was on Earth, but...

  • 01.25.2011 5:28 PM PDT

Also known as Entropy91
Black Water Ops representative.
See you on the battlefield.

Keep in mind four things:
1. Cryptum is the first in a trilogy.
2. It's working title was Antediluvian, which translates roughly from Latin as "before the flood".
3. The Flood don't actually appear in the present tense. All references to the Flood are past tense.
4. The Forerunners aren't exactly unbiased historians.

The only sketchy bit is the part about Mendicant Bias towards the end. I assume that that will be cleared up in the next two books.

[Edited on 01.25.2011 5:53 PM PST]

  • 01.25.2011 5:52 PM PDT

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