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Subject: Why was Narrows broken?

Narrows is an extremely broken map. Dynamic spawns have completely killed any competitive aspect the map ever had.

The only fair & competitive games you get on Narrows are on MLG Narrows, because static spawns award map control.

I just played Narrows twice in a row, we nearly lost the 2nd game because they were able to spawn behind us. It's not a fun experience, and was enough to make me stop playing for the night.

So I ask, what was the reasoning behind breaking Narrows?
Spawnkilling is not an answer, because they could've moved the spawns to block sightlines.

  • 01.13.2011 2:18 AM PDT

Posted by: Oh Herro
Spawnkilling is not an answer, because they could've moved the spawns to block sightlines.
...No, that is absolutely the answer.

Besides, doesn't it take more ''skill'' to keep winning rather than just win once and easily keep control?

  • 01.13.2011 8:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

No, it does not burrito.

The point of dynamic spawns, is to allow the team without control, to gain control.

This lowers the skill gap, because the team with Map Control is obviously better, and shouldn't be punished for that.

The answer to being spawn killed is team work. You never see pro's getting spawn killed repeatedly. Why? Because they have exceptional team work. Static spawns stimulate good teamwork, because that's the only way out of a spawn trap.

Dynamic spawns mean that map control is not essential. In fact, if one team doesn't camp at one base, the other team will spawn around them, and have a distinct advantage.

If a team DOES camp at one base, they lose power weapon control.

The only thing dynamic spawns are good for, are making bad teams feel good about themselves. Dynamic spawns are good for Social, but not ranked.

What's the point of having a perfectly symmetrical map, and making the spawns dynamic?

  • 01.13.2011 11:53 AM PDT

Posted by: militaryguns
I'm sorry America is busy helping others in the world and actually making a difference.

Something Canada will never do.


Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: Oh Herro
Spawnkilling is not an answer, because they could've moved the spawns to block sightlines.
...No, that is absolutely the answer.

Besides, doesn't it take more ''skill'' to keep winning rather than just win once and easily keep control?



go play bungle

  • 01.13.2011 11:54 AM PDT
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Pugalistic Death Allround


Posted by: Screamo

Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: Oh Herro
Spawnkilling is not an answer, because they could've moved the spawns to block sightlines.
...No, that is absolutely the answer.

Besides, doesn't it take more ''skill'' to keep winning rather than just win once and easily keep control?



go play bungle

Yes

  • 01.13.2011 11:58 AM PDT

Posted by: Mike HunttYour entire post sounds like you're saying what I said- it's harder to win with dynamic spawns than static ones. You can argue if it's a good thing all you want, but if it's harder to win in this particular case, does that not mean it takes more 'skill' to keep winning? After all, you can't just win a single battle and dominate from there ( most players are NOT 'pros' that you're referencing). You have to win, then manage to keep winning since you never have a total advantage over the other team.
No?

  • 01.13.2011 12:07 PM PDT

Posted by: militaryguns
I'm sorry America is busy helping others in the world and actually making a difference.

Something Canada will never do.


Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: Mike HunttYour entire post sounds like you're saying what I said- it's harder to win with dynamic spawns than static ones. You can argue if it's a good thing all you want, but if it's harder to win in this particular case, does that not mean it takes more 'skill' to keep winning? After all, you can't just win a single battle and dominate from there ( most players are NOT 'pros' that you're referencing). You have to win, then manage to keep winning since you never have a total advantage over the other team.
No?


we already had the "skill =/= difficulty" discussion.

you obviously don't understand what you're talking about

  • 01.13.2011 12:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: Mike HunttYour entire post sounds like you're saying what I said- it's harder to win with dynamic spawns than static ones. You can argue if it's a good thing all you want, but if it's harder to win in this particular case, does that not mean it takes more 'skill' to keep winning? After all, you can't just win a single battle and dominate from there ( most players are NOT 'pros' that you're referencing). You have to win, then manage to keep winning since you never have a total advantage over the other team.
No?
burrito, you need to think about it in a competitive sense.

If you are better than the other team, is it fair that they spawn behind you, meaning that you get caught inbetween their whole team? No. That defies the purpose of map control.

And it's ranked, It's meant to be as competitive as possible. I used to love narrows, but now that it has dynamic spawns, I hate it.

  • 01.13.2011 12:17 PM PDT

Posted by: Mike Huntt
If you are better than the other team, is it fair that they spawn behind you, meaning that you get caught inbetween their whole team? No. That defies the purpose of map control.

And it's ranked, It's meant to be as competitive as possible. I used to love narrows, but now that it has dynamic spawns, I hate it.
Maybe it isn't fair- I'm not saying you're wrong. That's not what I was arguing though. I was just saying that it's harder to win when spawns are like this, so surely it must take more 'skill.' It might not be 'fair' you're right, but then again, that's not what I'm talking about. You know?

  • 01.13.2011 12:33 PM PDT
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I play games for gameplay, not silly gimmicks

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Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: Mike Huntt
If you are better than the other team, is it fair that they spawn behind you, meaning that you get caught inbetween their whole team? No. That defies the purpose of map control.

And it's ranked, It's meant to be as competitive as possible. I used to love narrows, but now that it has dynamic spawns, I hate it.
Maybe it isn't fair- I'm not saying you're wrong. That's not what I was arguing though. I was just saying that it's harder to win when spawns are like this, so surely it must take more 'skill.' It might not be 'fair' you're right, but then again, that's not what I'm talking about. You know?


Skill and difficulty are not the same thing. It may be harder to win like that, but it adds randomness to the gameplay. Even with dynamic spawns it is relatively easy to predict spawns, or at least the general area of where they spawn, however, it is entirely possible for the other team to get a different spawn. See if you killed them off red side but one stays alive say red snipe, or red power up, then it is possible for the red team to spawn inside that same base you just killed them at. Normally this would be a good thing, but if you predict the spawn to be blue then you get ambushed about 10 feet away, and chances are the other team can kill 2-3 of you.

This leads to games where the score is closer than it should be, or rather completely misleading. Skill is when there is nothing random, when the game functions the way it should. Note that randomness does not apply to picking up weapons or nades, but by gameplay mechanics themselves. With static spawns the better team, or the team with better teamwork will always win. Thats how it should be

  • 01.13.2011 12:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: Mike Huntt
If you are better than the other team, is it fair that they spawn behind you, meaning that you get caught inbetween their whole team? No. That defies the purpose of map control.

And it's ranked, It's meant to be as competitive as possible. I used to love narrows, but now that it has dynamic spawns, I hate it.
Maybe it isn't fair- I'm not saying you're wrong. That's not what I was arguing though. I was just saying that it's harder to win when spawns are like this, so surely it must take more 'skill.' It might not be 'fair' you're right, but then again, that's not what I'm talking about. You know?
burrito, I fully expect you to one day say this:

"JKZ GUIS IVE BEEN TROLLING YOU ALL FOR YEARS LOLOLOLOL"

But until then, I guess I'll just have to take you seriously.

Difficulty does not equate to skill, we both know that, it's common sense. It doesn't make it harder, it just makes it unfair.

[Edited on 01.13.2011 12:48 PM PST]

  • 01.13.2011 12:47 PM PDT

Posted by: militaryguns
I'm sorry America is busy helping others in the world and actually making a difference.

Something Canada will never do.


Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: Mike Huntt
If you are better than the other team, is it fair that they spawn behind you, meaning that you get caught inbetween their whole team? No. That defies the purpose of map control.

And it's ranked, It's meant to be as competitive as possible. I used to love narrows, but now that it has dynamic spawns, I hate it.
Maybe it isn't fair- I'm not saying you're wrong. That's not what I was arguing though. I was just saying that it's harder to win when spawns are like this, so surely it must take more 'skill.' It might not be 'fair' you're right, but then again, that's not what I'm talking about. You know?


randomly spawning behind someone doesn't take skill. especially when the rest of your teammates are on the other side.


please don't try to argue anymore, it's obvious you have no clue what you're talking about.

  • 01.13.2011 12:49 PM PDT

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Posted by: Mike Huntt
No, it does not burrito.

The point of dynamic spawns, is to allow the team without control, to gain control.

This lowers the skill gap, because the team with Map Control is obviously better, and shouldn't be punished for that.

The answer to being spawn killed is team work. You never see pro's getting spawn killed repeatedly. Why? Because they have exceptional team work. Static spawns stimulate good teamwork, because that's the only way out of a spawn trap.

Dynamic spawns mean that map control is not essential. In fact, if one team doesn't camp at one base, the other team will spawn around them, and have a distinct advantage.

If a team DOES camp at one base, they lose power weapon control.

The only thing dynamic spawns are good for, are making bad teams feel good about themselves. Dynamic spawns are good for Social, but not ranked.

What's the point of having a perfectly symmetrical map, and making the spawns dynamic?


Well said! It's a little anyoing... but doesn't make the map terrible... Its' my favourite map (MLG) after all!

  • 01.13.2011 1:57 PM PDT

"Where are you, God, you f.ucking f.aggot? Come and get me!" Neil Armstrong

Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: Oh Herro
Spawnkilling is not an answer, because they could've moved the spawns to block sightlines.
...No, that is absolutely the answer.

Besides, doesn't it take more ''skill'' to keep winning rather than just win once and easily keep control?

Please, for the love of God, stay out of arguments you know nothing about.

  • 01.13.2011 2:35 PM PDT
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Brother's account. My main is Guillotineee

Social Narrows is terrible.

  • 01.13.2011 2:46 PM PDT

Posted by: meagsIZbeast
Skill is when there is nothing random,
No, skill would be outplaying the other team. Just because you don't know their exact location at all times doesn't mean it's all luck. They spawn somewhere else so you can't spawn kill them. That means you just have to keep finding and killing them. And if you're good enough, you'll be able to do so. All this does is keeps the playing field level so each encounter is even, save weapons you might have picked up. It's not like they know exactly where you are either... unless you're standing in the same spot. In which case they'd know either way.

Difficulty doesn't have to equal skill, no. But in this case, the difficulty means that to win, you need to HAVE more 'skill.'

  • 01.13.2011 2:46 PM PDT
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Brother's account. My main is Guillotineee


Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: meagsIZbeast
Skill is when there is nothing random,
No, skill would be outplaying the other team. Just because you don't know their exact location at all times doesn't mean it's all luck. They spawn somewhere else so you can't spawn kill them. That means you just have to keep finding and killing them. And if you're good enough, you'll be able to do so. All this does is keeps the playing field level so each encounter is even, save weapons you might have picked up. It's not like they know exactly where you are either... unless you're standing in the same spot. In which case they'd know either way.

Difficulty doesn't have to equal skill, no. But in this case, the difficulty means that to win, you need to HAVE more 'skill.'



Then have everyone spawn with Bubble Shields and Regens to make it even more fair.

  • 01.13.2011 2:57 PM PDT

Posted by: militaryguns
I'm sorry America is busy helping others in the world and actually making a difference.

Something Canada will never do.


Posted by: burritosenior
Difficulty doesn't have to equal skill, no. But in this case, the difficulty means that to win, you need to HAVE more 'skill.'


holy jesus

you are thick.

  • 01.13.2011 3:11 PM PDT

Posted by: Hubris Ghost
Then have everyone spawn with Bubble Shields and Regens to make it even more fair.
That... has absolutely no relevance to what I was saying, not even as an analogy. I'd suggest you read my post again if you did not understand that. Thanks!

  • 01.13.2011 3:16 PM PDT

"Where are you, God, you f.ucking f.aggot? Come and get me!" Neil Armstrong

Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: Hubris Ghost
Then have everyone spawn with Bubble Shields and Regens to make it even more fair.
That... has absolutely no relevance to what I was saying, not even as an analogy. I'd suggest you read my post again if you did not understand that. Thanks!

It's called sarcasm.

A lot of the time, it's undetectable through the internet, so sometimes missing it is understandable.

But if you seriously didn't catch that, then oh my God you must be half retarded.

  • 01.13.2011 3:23 PM PDT

Posted by: TyphIosion
It's called sarcasm.

A lot of the time, it's undetectable through the internet, so sometimes missing it is understandable.

But if you seriously didn't catch that, then oh my God you must be half retarded.
Two things mate. One, if you aren't able to post something without flaming, this forum is probably too mature for you. And that's saying something!

Secondly, I realize that was sarcasm. It still had absolutely no relevance to what I was saying. It's really incredibly simple. But if you seriously didn't catch that... well... I'll leave that to you.
:)

  • 01.13.2011 3:25 PM PDT

"Where are you, God, you f.ucking f.aggot? Come and get me!" Neil Armstrong

Jesus, you're pathetic.

  • 01.13.2011 3:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

Posted by: Mike Huntt
burrito, I fully expect you to one day say this:

"JKZ GUIS IVE BEEN TROLLING YOU ALL FOR YEARS LOLOLOLOL"

  • 01.13.2011 3:45 PM PDT

So...what you're telling us is...is that camping is pro. Having multiple people camp the same place is pro. Have multiple people pick off people as soon as they spawn is pro.

Run this one by me again.

  • 01.13.2011 4:50 PM PDT
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Brother's account. My main is Guillotineee


Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: TyphIosion
It's called sarcasm.

A lot of the time, it's undetectable through the internet, so sometimes missing it is understandable.

But if you seriously didn't catch that, then oh my God you must be half retarded.
Two things mate. One, if you aren't able to post something without flaming, this forum is probably too mature for you. And that's saying something!

Secondly, I realize that was sarcasm. It still had absolutely no relevance to what I was saying. It's really incredibly simple. But if you seriously didn't catch that... well... I'll leave that to you.
:)


It had everything to do with what you where talking about. That's why AAs are in Reach, to give bad players the chance to cover up there mistake.

[Edited on 01.13.2011 5:06 PM PST]

  • 01.13.2011 5:05 PM PDT

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