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Subject: Why was Narrows broken?

Posted by: Hubris Ghost
It had everything to do with what you where talking about. That's why AAs are in Reach, to give bad players the chance to cover up there mistake.
No, it isn't relevant at all.
>.<

  • 01.13.2011 5:11 PM PDT

Your just looking at it in simple terms. If you look at the whole body of map control, its not camping. Its like fighting. When you get someone down, your not gonna try something different, your gonna keep control. Keeping control is... 'pro'.

  • 01.13.2011 5:11 PM PDT

Lone Wolves- 46| Terrible matchmaking warrior
Team Slayer- 50|
Team SWAT- 35|
Team Snipers- 44|
Team Doubles- 45|
MLG- 36|

Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: meagsIZbeast
Skill is when there is nothing random,
No, skill would be outplaying the other team. Just because you don't know their exact location at all times doesn't mean it's all luck. They spawn somewhere else so you can't spawn kill them. That means you just have to keep finding and killing them. And if you're good enough, you'll be able to do so. All this does is keeps the playing field level so each encounter is even, save weapons you might have picked up. It's not like they know exactly where you are either... unless you're standing in the same spot. In which case they'd know either way.

Difficulty doesn't have to equal skill, no. But in this case, the difficulty means that to win, you need to HAVE more 'skill.'


Do you consider everything that is random skillful? I shouldn't have to worry about some guy I just killed 5 seconds ago spawning right up my ass, and you would consider this me getting outplayed?

Please just go away, nothing you ever post is right.

  • 01.13.2011 5:12 PM PDT
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Junior Dos Santos, know the name, he's the future.

BLACK POWER!

Because bad players complained about being spawn killed.

  • 01.13.2011 5:30 PM PDT

Posted by: LastWhiteMocha
Do you consider everything that is random skillful?
Nope.I shouldn't have to worry about some guy I just killed 5 seconds ago spawning right up my ass, and you would consider this me getting outplayed?Someone clearly didn't read the post he quoted in a fit of rage, now did he? Might want to go over it again mate.
:)

  • 01.13.2011 7:18 PM PDT
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All it took was a stew of whoopass.


Posted by: LastWhiteMocha
Do you consider everything that is random skillful? I shouldn't have to worry about some guy I just killed 5 seconds ago spawning right up my ass, and you would consider this me getting outplayed?
I believe that luck and skill go hand in hand together.
Please just go away, nothing you ever post is right.Yours are not and will not be as peachy and pretty, tough guy.

  • 01.13.2011 7:31 PM PDT

Lone Wolves- 46| Terrible matchmaking warrior
Team Slayer- 50|
Team SWAT- 35|
Team Snipers- 44|
Team Doubles- 45|
MLG- 36|

Posted by: cRaZyT101

Posted by: LastWhiteMocha
Do you consider everything that is random skillful? I shouldn't have to worry about some guy I just killed 5 seconds ago spawning right up my ass, and you would consider this me getting outplayed?
I believe that luck and skill go hand in hand together.
Please just go away, nothing you ever post is right.Yours are not and will not be as peachy and pretty, tough guy.


Yeah dude I am pretty tough for posting on a game forum

/sarcasm

  • 01.14.2011 4:16 AM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

Narrows was broken because bungie listened to burritotacomaster.

  • 01.14.2011 7:54 PM PDT
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I play games for gameplay, not silly gimmicks

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Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: meagsIZbeast
Skill is when there is nothing random,
No, skill would be outplaying the other team. Just because you don't know their exact location at all times doesn't mean it's all luck. They spawn somewhere else so you can't spawn kill them. That means you just have to keep finding and killing them. And if you're good enough, you'll be able to do so. All this does is keeps the playing field level so each encounter is even, save weapons you might have picked up. It's not like they know exactly where you are either... unless you're standing in the same spot. In which case they'd know either way.

Difficulty doesn't have to equal skill, no. But in this case, the difficulty means that to win, you need to HAVE more 'skill.'


Burrito, please use some common sense. This may be hard for you, but try and understand this. In the context of halo the opponents picking up weapons and equipment would not be random. That is because these items are placed on the map for the 2 teams to fight for. They are always there, therefore a part of the overall design of the game, and therefore not random. What is random is the spawning mechanic. Sure you could say that technically you have to meet some requirement, but it is immpossible for humans to calculate as fast as the cpu. In this case it is random to where the opponents will spawn. If they have 1 person on either side of the map, then the spawn mechanic will pick a place based on some unknown factor. We have no way of knowing where our opponents will spawn, save for on the map. This makes it more random, they could spawn in your face, or across the map. MLG narrows fixes that by implementing static spawns which is how all maps should be. When you gain control of a side you should not have to be worried about the enemy team spawning behind you.

  • 01.14.2011 8:14 PM PDT

Posted by: militaryguns
I'm sorry America is busy helping others in the world and actually making a difference.

Something Canada will never do.


Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: LastWhiteMocha
Do you consider everything that is random skillful?
Nope.


yes you do. you think that difficulty = skill.

the more random something is, the harder it is. winning the lottery is pretty damn hard, but does it take skill? nope.

  • 01.14.2011 8:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: Khr0m
it's in Australian money and every things more expensive there

Posted by: Screamo
Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: LastWhiteMocha
Do you consider everything that is random skillful?
Nope.
yes you do. you think that difficulty = skill.

the more random something is, the harder it is. winning the lottery is pretty damn hard, but does it take skill? nope.
This post.

Good. I like it.

  • 01.14.2011 8:22 PM PDT

Posted by: meagsIZbeast
In the context of halo the opponents picking up weapons and equipment would not be random. That is because these items are placed on the map for the 2 teams to fight for. They are always there, therefore a part of the overall design of the game, and therefore not random.
Fair enough. I have said nothing to contradict this to my knowledge and if I have, it was not intentional.
What is random is the spawning mechanic. Sure you could say that technically you have to meet some requirement, but it is immpossible for humans to calculate as fast as the cpu. In this case it is random to where the opponents will spawn. If they have 1 person on either side of the map, then the spawn mechanic will pick a place based on some unknown factor. We have no way of knowing where our opponents will spawn, save for on the map. This makes it more random, they could spawn in your face, or across the map.
Correct too.
MLG narrows fixes that by implementing static spawns which is how all maps should be. When you gain control of a side you should not have to be worried about the enemy team spawning behind you.
See, this is the part where we differ I am afraid. I am not arguing that it is GOOD or FAIR to have dynamic spawns. Please don't think that if that's what it seems. What I am saying is that, yes, it takes more 'skill' to win with Dynamic spawns. As you say, it is random as far as we are concerned (the computer does it mathematically but let's be honest, none of us have a clue about that stuff). This is what keeps the game balanced though. Like I said, you kill the enemy. Instead of knowing exactly where they are so you always have the upper hand from that point on, you DON'T know where they will be next and, unless you're insist on standing in the exact same spot, they won't know where you are either (in which case you could argue that it's good for gameplay based on it preventing camping... but I'm not arguing that one here haha).

So aside from this weapon spawning that we already agreed is part of the map and not random, the gameplay is always on an even playing field. Map control therefore shifts from simply gaining better positioning to controlling where a weapon will be so in the next evenly matched encounter... well, it won't be so even!

In a game where it constantly evens out the gameplay in such a way, surely only the better team can come out victorious rather than just the team who wins the opening sequence.
Posted by: Screamo
the more random something is, the harder it is. winning the lottery is pretty damn hard, but does it take skill? nope.
I agree. Hence why I said 'No' instead of the 'Yes' you so blatantly ignored.

  • 01.14.2011 8:49 PM PDT

Posted by: militaryguns
I'm sorry America is busy helping others in the world and actually making a difference.

Something Canada will never do.


Posted by: burritosenior
but if it's harder to win in this particular case, does that not mean it takes more 'skill' to keep winning?


herp

  • 01.14.2011 8:56 PM PDT

The Wall of Fire is where Abels Bridge will be built, thus making Australians journey into Halo, smoother, quicker and more enjoyable.

I'm sorry, but no. Burritosenior you are WRONG.

Narrows has never been good with arena spawns. Why would arena spawns suit a symmetrical map?

  • 01.14.2011 9:00 PM PDT
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ok burrito here we go just one more time. The reason it still takes less skill to win on a dynamic setup is because not only does the other team have the chance to spawn behind you, so too do you have that chance. On a dynamic spawn you have just as much chance to spawn behind the opponent and get cheap kills. Now take a static spawn. On this you have the opponent bearing down on you at all times. If you lose the opening battle you have to fight off spawn the rest of the game to regain control in order to win. And if you win the opening battle you still have to use teamwork to cover all the spawns and make sure no one gets behind you. It takes more communication and teamwork to fight off spawn than it does when you start behind the enemy. This also encourages timed pushes for power weapons.

  • 01.14.2011 9:09 PM PDT

Posted by: meagsIZbeast
ok burrito here we go just one more time.
No no please do keep trying. I'm trying to convince you of what I'm thinking but sure I could be wrong. I simply just don't believe I am. But I'm not totally closed to the possibility.
The reason it still takes less skill to win on a dynamic setup is because not only does the other team have the chance to spawn behind you, so too do you have that chance. On a dynamic spawn you have just as much chance to spawn behind the opponent and get cheap kills.
Situational awareness. Is it not part of the game, and a 'skill' of its own, to be aware of what's happening all around you instead of just right in front of you? Especially in a setting such as MLG where there is no radar, one needs to be incredibly wary of an enemy appearing from any side. No?
Now take a static spawn. On this you have the opponent bearing down on you at all times. If you lose the opening battle you have to fight off spawn the rest of the game to regain control in order to win. And if you win the opening battle you still have to use teamwork to cover all the spawns and make sure no one gets behind you. It takes more communication and teamwork to fight off spawn than it does when you start behind the enemy. This also encourages timed pushes for power weapons.
You're right it may very well take more communication and teamwork to do so. But the thing is... and I think [hope] you'll agree with me on this one at least... most people don't HAVE any skill in communication or teamwork, you know? So essentially they're doomed if they, say, don't have a microphone or something. In this, the dynamic spawns allow them to enjoy the game instead of just being slaughtered the whole time. But alas, that's getting into talk of if it's 'fair' instead of what takes more 'skill.'

As you say, you need to have teamwork to escape something like a spawn trap. But that in itself is imbalanced. That promotes dominance of one side. With the dynamic spawns, instead of it coming down to controlling player spawns, it comes down to being aware of your surroundings, controlling weapon spawns, and individual encounters. Thus superior positioning is not guaranteed, but you are expected to have with you superior weaponry at the least, to gain yourself the advantage.

It takes less teamwork, sure. But individual skill? I simply can't see how Static Spawns take more 'skill.'

  • 01.14.2011 9:26 PM PDT
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Why do you bother arguing with burritotacomaster, its like smashing your head into a wall over and over again.

  • 01.14.2011 9:27 PM PDT
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I play games for gameplay, not silly gimmicks

H3 MM warrior

Reach S7, 8 and 9 arena warrior.

H4 MM legend

there is only one good player that I can think of who never uses a mic... thats yoshieburgurz. Aside from him all good players have mics. In high level anything whatever team has better teamwork will almost always win.

Teamwork>individual skill.

Thats why players like Heinz and pistola are so good. True they are both individually good, but their teamwork is unbelievable which is why they are so sought after by teams.

If your having a problem with teamwork, go in with teams of 3 or 4.

  • 01.14.2011 9:42 PM PDT
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I search TS as a no mic randal, WAT.

  • 01.14.2011 9:45 PM PDT


Posted by: meagsIZbeast
there is only one good player that I can think of who never uses a mic... thats yoshieburgurz. Aside from him all good players have mics. In high level anything whatever team has better teamwork will almost always win.

Teamwork>individual skill.

Thats why players like Heinz and pistola are so good. True they are both individually good, but their teamwork is unbelievable which is why they are so sought after by teams.

If your having a problem with teamwork, go in with teams of 3 or 4.
Most players aren't professionals. I won't pretend to know any of those names you just mentioned, but I'm assuming that is what they are based on the context so please forgive me if I'm mistaken.

So if you'd like, you can complain about how it isn't fair that Bungie is catering to the majority who 'suck' at Halo (though mind you the competitive folks did get their Static Spawns they wanted so badly, if you'd note). But then again, I'm not discussing whether or not it is fair.

Because let's be honest- most casual players don't have much teamwork. So individual skill is what the dynamic spawns cater towards. In individual firefights, it keeps the game much more balanced than Static Spawns so for an individual, it takes more skill to win. Therefore each individual player needs to be skilled on his or her own to achieve victory in the game. Or at least more skilled than their counterparts.

That's the basic concept I'm going for. Do you see where I'm coming from maybe?

  • 01.14.2011 9:48 PM PDT

Want to see advanced Halo stats not offered by other Halo stat websites? Check out MetaHalo.com, the stats website I am working on. Reach stats currently in development.

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Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: Mike Huntt
If you are better than the other team, is it fair that they spawn behind you, meaning that you get caught inbetween their whole team? No. That defies the purpose of map control.

And it's ranked, It's meant to be as competitive as possible. I used to love narrows, but now that it has dynamic spawns, I hate it.
Maybe it isn't fair- I'm not saying you're wrong. That's not what I was arguing though. I was just saying that it's harder to win when spawns are like this, so surely it must take more 'skill.' It might not be 'fair' you're right, but then again, that's not what I'm talking about. You know?


That's like saying getting kills with the plasma pistol is more skillful than getting kills with the BR because it's harder to use.

[Edited on 01.15.2011 2:29 AM PST]

  • 01.15.2011 2:27 AM PDT
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I still don't get bungie's decision to make such a good map so retarded. Like it works absolutely fine in MLG with static spawns, so why did it have to be made into a neutral spawn fail for Team Slayer.



  • 01.15.2011 3:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

Posted by: EW iLegacyyyyyy
I still don't get bungie's decision to make such a good map so retarded. Like it works absolutely fine in MLG with static spawns, so why did it have to be made into a neutral spawn fail for Team Slayer.
Because people complained about getting spawnkilled when the other team was clearly better.

Bungie doesn't understand competitiveness (see: Reach), they just focus on making it easier for those who can't succeed in an extremely easy game.

  • 01.15.2011 3:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: Mike Huntt

Bungie doesn't understand competitiveness (see: Reach), they just focus on making it easier for those who can't succeed in an extremely easy game.


True that, Who cares what kid's with no skill think, they suck so there view on it shouldn't be listened to.

  • 01.15.2011 3:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

Posted by: EW iLegacyyyyyy
Posted by: Mike Huntt
Bungie doesn't understand competitiveness (see: Reach), they just focus on making it easier for those who can't succeed in an extremely easy game.
True that, Who cares what kid's with no skill think, they suck so there view on it shouldn't be listened to.
Well seeing as the majority of players are lower skilled players, it is in Bungies best interests to cater to them.

They took it so far with Reach that it has just become gimmicky. People get sick of it very easily. Speaking of which, I saw you playing it ALL NIGHT the other day! I got to work, and you were on it at 6:30am!! What happened? Did they fix everything?

  • 01.15.2011 3:50 AM PDT

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