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Subject: Pathways into Darkness 2

A Silent Cartographer

Make it. Please. For Mac, PC, PS3 and 360. give Skyrim some competition.

[Edited on 01.13.2011 6:18 AM PST]

  • 01.13.2011 6:16 AM PDT

"Strive for your next breath. Believe that with it you can do more than with the last one..."

Reverof Nohtaram

It is highly unlikely that Bungie will ever make a sequel to Pathways. Now, "2 Gnop" on the other hand... You'll have to check Ling-Ling's jar for an estimate on that.

Anyway, Jason Jones answered this question back in 1993.

IMG: Will there be a Pathways II?

Jones: I don't think that Bungie will ever publish a game called Pathways into Darkness II. There's a lot of reasons for that, one of them being that I tend to dislike sequels. Many times when a publisher comes out with a sequel to a game, it means that they made a lot of money on the first one and they're going to continue to publish similar games until everyone gets sick of them. Sometimes those games are actually fun, and the people who liked the first one also like the second one, but sometimes they're not. No, Bungie is not going to publish a Pathways II. A lot of cool things have happened with the rendering technology since Pathways shipped, and it suggests some different products which don't really fit into the Pathways world.


[Edited on 01.13.2011 10:33 AM PST]

  • 01.13.2011 10:31 AM PDT


Posted by: GrimC1eaver
It is highly unlikely that Bungie will ever make a sequel to Pathways. Now, "2 Gnop" on the other hand... You'll have to check Ling-Ling's jar for an estimate on that.

Anyway, Jason Jones answered this question back in 1993.

...I tend to dislike sequels. Many times when a publisher comes out with a sequel to a game, it means that they made a lot of money on the first one and they're going to continue to publish similar games until everyone gets sick of them. Sometimes those games are actually fun, and the people who liked the first one also like the second one, but sometimes they're not.
If only the Bungie crew still felt this way when making Halo... Instead we got Halo 2 then Halo 3, Halo ODST, and Halo Reach.

A Pathways 2 isn't really necessary. In a way, Marathon is Pathways 2 because it continues the story of the Jjaro and takes place in the same universe.

[Edited on 01.13.2011 3:48 PM PST]

  • 01.13.2011 3:46 PM PDT

As far as I'm aware... the story wrapped up pretty nicely.
You enter the pyramid, stab some chicken things, get inredibly frustrated numerous times and strain your eyes from the lighting, plant the bomb and get out :p
I don't think a sequel would even fit...

[Edited on 01.13.2011 3:56 PM PST]

  • 01.13.2011 3:56 PM PDT

"Strive for your next breath. Believe that with it you can do more than with the last one..."

Reverof Nohtaram

Posted by: Sardonic13
If only the Bungie crew still felt this way when making Halo... Instead we got Halo 2 then Halo 3, Halo ODST, and Halo Reach.
While I do agree with Jones about sequels, I think that the Halo sequels offered much needed improvements and more developed features. Similar to the way that Marathon 2 and Marathon Infinity (networking for instance) were incremental improvements over the previous iteration.

Interestingly enough, Jones wasn't actually involved very much in the Halo sequels.

I do wonder if Bungie would have made as many Halo sequels if they hadn't been bound to a ten year contract. Perhaps they would have moved on to a new IP sooner.


A Pathways 2 isn't really necessary. In a way, Marathon is Pathways 2 because it continues the story of the Jjaro and takes place in the same universe.Yeah, I agree.

  • 01.13.2011 4:12 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

First off, kudos to Grim for the Inside Mac Games quote.

Secondly, to echo what Sard said, the sequel is un-needed as Marathon continues the story PiD began. Any attempt to make a sequel (or a remake, because I know some mouth-breather out there is going to suggest it) would be ridiculous, making even less sense than a Marathon sequel or remake would.

As someone who really enjoys PiD, it is my opinion that anyone who wants to see a sequel, or for it to be remade, actually doesn't enjoy the original game; instead simply wanting to discuss it out of some misguided sense of 'forum cred'.

  • 01.13.2011 7:16 PM PDT

Lets Boogie

technically Marathon is a sequel to PiD, so no need for a PiD 2.

  • 01.13.2011 7:23 PM PDT

A Silent Cartographer

huh, very enlightening, I played pathways on my dads old mac ages ago and I had forgot most of what happened other than that I loved it. I appreciate the info very much.

I do maintain however that a sequel, remake, or revisit, necessary to story continuation or not, would be a fantastic experience. And to that point I think that bungie doesn't always follow their own rules (take Jasons statement on sequels, look at halo series) but that is something I'm perfectly fine with.

I have good faith I will enjoy whatever bungie creates next and whether it is a brand new IP, a spiritual successor to another title or series, or an RPG about Ling-Ling's subconscious mind.

[Edited on 01.14.2011 2:56 PM PST]

  • 01.14.2011 2:43 PM PDT

A Silent Cartographer

As someone who really enjoys PiD, it is my opinion that anyone who wants to see a sequel, or for it to be remade, actually doesn't enjoy the original game; instead simply wanting to discuss it out of some misguided sense of 'forum cred'.
lookofdisapproval.jpeg

Or they like the game and wanted to express an opinion about it...

  • 01.14.2011 2:49 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Posted by: IGuardianReflexI
Or they like the game and wanted to express an opinion about it...


Allow me to qualify my statement.
While some who suggest a remake may truly enjoy the game as it stands, those people are (in my opinion) few and far between. Often the case cited in favor of remakes are the "graphics" or "gameplay" being outdated. Both of these things are secondary concerns to the enjoying a game itself, and also solely dependent on current technology and industry trends. As such, remaking a game solely to make it look better, or conform it to contemporary gameplay conventions is asinine (not to mention reeking of 'cash grab').

Now, what makes me say this? Well, simply put, a game's foremost asset, the one which truly defines it, is the story it tells. Retelling a story is pointless, when the original can still be experienced as it was initially intended to be. Allowing a remake to tell the same story is not only repetitive, but is also likely to lessen the story, and subsequently the experience offered by the game, by introducing errors or omitting material.

Some may say such remade games would inspire younger people to enjoy the original's story and grow an interest for it. Personally I find that to be a terrible excuse. Video gaming is, unfortunately, an ahistorical medium; meaning, each successive generation is unlikely to have played an older game the farther removed from it they are in terms of years. This gives rise to the remake market (as an analogy, look at the movie industry) and the lessening of quality. I may be old, and perhaps a bit of a curmudgeon, but I truly feel that if younger fans are legitimately interested in an older title, they will play it as it stands, appreciating it for what it is and the story it tells.

Video games are a unique story telling medium, and should be treated as such. While the stories themselves are constant factors, the method of their delivery is not and is unmercifully at the beck and call of the ever-changing shifts in technology, development trends, and public reception. This is the reason why I said what I did. Those who are often first to call for a remake are more focused on the delivery of a game's story, than the story itself. In effect, caring more about the metaphorical 'packaging' than the 'gift' inside.

This itself has even seemingly become a trend within the industry as more and more games forgo a deeper story for a flashy delivery through "innovative gameplay", "HD graphics", and "multiplayer fun". None of these things are innately bad, but when they become the focal point, when they impede the story-telling process, they can actually make what could be a great game into just a good one; and a fantastic older game into nothing more than a "new" next-gen FPS destined for the bargain bin.

  • 01.14.2011 3:55 PM PDT

Want to play Bungie games old and new? For Carnage Apply Within

"Don't mistake your rank and number for superiority.
The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Placid, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but I think you are mostly calling on deaf ears. Most people don't give a -blam!- about gaming history if the history isn't a top ten list of their favorite games. I hope at some point this changes. My hopes are not very high, but maybe as people get older they will naturally develop an interest in it.

I do think that there is room in the world for a new game in the style of Pathways though. Not a sequel or a remake, just a FPS style adventure game.

Finally, I always get a kick out of the number of FCAW guys who post in the oldschool game threads. Kudos.

  • 01.14.2011 4:19 PM PDT

"Strive for your next breath. Believe that with it you can do more than with the last one..."

Reverof Nohtaram

Not to repeat Atom, but, I also agree completely. Very well said, Placid.

However, I think most would agree that there is always room to port the original game so it can be played on newer hardware - Much like what was done with Aleph One.


Posted by: Atomsk A33
I do think that there is room in the world for a new game in the style of Pathways though. Not a sequel or a remake, just a FPS style adventure game.
That would actually be refreshing, since most of the current FPS games are blatant copycats.

  • 01.14.2011 8:36 PM PDT


Posted by: Atomsk A33
Finally, I always get a kick out of the number of FCAW guys who post in the oldschool game threads. Kudos.
Kind of makes me proud in a way.

  • 01.14.2011 9:02 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Posted by: Atomsk A33
I do think that there is room in the world for a new game in the style of Pathways though. Not a sequel or a remake, just a FPS style adventure game.


Posted by: GrimC1eaver
I think most would agree that there is always room to port the original game so it can be played on newer hardware - Much like what was done with Aleph One.


Absolutely. I'd love to see another FPS adventure game, with as heavy an emphasis on the story. I personally think such a game would be received rather positively in the current 'gaming climate' if done well and would be an excellent change of pace to the 'pure' (read: combat-driven) FPSs that are flooding the market.

At the same time, I'd like to think Grim's suggestion could be brought to fruition. It would be nice to have an A1-esque port of PiD, but I honestly doubt we will ever see one as the source code is unreleased (and given the game's age, I'd frankly be surprised if anyone had a better chance of finding it than they would Minotaur's), and to put it bluntly, the old-school fan community has shrunk to some degree, making the manpower necessary for such a project hard to recruit. There is the fabled PiD to A1 conversion; but provided that ever sees the light of day, it will be different in many ways from the original and would not be anywhere near a direct port.

Posted by: Atomsk A33
Finally, I always get a kick out of the number of FCAW guys who post in the oldschool game threads. Kudos.


We aim to please.

[Edited on 01.20.2011 1:01 PM PST]

  • 01.15.2011 11:25 AM PDT

A Silent Cartographer

To be honest I didn't really think my post would taken even the slightest bit seriously. It's just one guy on a forum yelling, I LIKED YOUR GAME MAKE ANOTHER ONE BUNGIE! which in reality is all that is accomplished even if well worded and detailed as to your reasonings. All that my statement was intended to express was that I would enjoy a pathways game in some form on current systems.

  • 01.17.2011 6:43 AM PDT

A Silent Cartographer

This is the reason why I said what I did. Those who are often first to call for a remake are more focused on the delivery of a game's story, than the story itself. In effect, caring more about the metaphorical 'packaging' than the 'gift' inside.
I think it could be said that the delivery is just as important. Sure many games have very rich stories but without proper delivery they have not done what a story is intended to do in the first place, convey plots and ideas, I would not be so quick to dismiss updating older titles as pointless to enriching the story. Improvements in animation, audio design, lighting, etc. all allow the game to tell its story with more clarity and depth. Which you seem to firmly believe is the most important aspect.

Often the case cited in favor of remakes are the "graphics" or "gameplay" being outdated. Both of these things are secondary concerns to the enjoying a game itself, and also solely dependent on current technology and industry trends. As such, remaking a game solely to make it look better, or conform it to contemporary gameplay conventions is asinine Firstly, There is an enormous difference between outdated and unable to be fully implemented, polished, or simply impossible during the time of development. (Not that I believe that to be the case with Pathways)

Secondly, gameplay, especially if outdated, is in no way secondary to how enjoyable the game is. I think many older gamers tend to see their favorite titles from the past to be somehow immune to being seen differently in retrospect. Just because something was fun in its initial state doesn't mean that it shouldn't or cant be improved upon with more current revisions, and if those revisions are gameplay and graphical, then they very much DO improve the storytelling of the game.

  • 01.17.2011 7:07 AM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Posted by: IGuardianReflexI
I think it could be said that the delivery is just as important. Sure many games have very rich stories but without proper delivery they have not done what a story is intended to do in the first place, convey plots and ideas, I would not be so quick to dismiss updating older titles as pointless to enriching the story. Improvements in animation, audio design, lighting, etc. all allow the game to tell its story with more clarity and depth. Which you seem to firmly believe is the most important aspect.


Yes, the manner in which a game's story is told plays a role in the games success. Certainly, if the gameplay, controls, or graphics are terrible, it will put some players off and possibly cause them to leave the game. Still, such factors are cursory, I feel, to the story itself, and (to repeat what I mentioned above) representative of contemporary technology and trends more so than any direct enjoyment of the game.

As such, I'm of the opinion, that remaking a game to solely incorporate "new" graphic technologies and gameplay trends (which themselves will be considered "antiquated" in a few years) is a useless gesture as well as a self-fulfilling prophecy when it comes to their delivery of the story. If a story was expertly told with it's first release, there is no need to re-tell it through another format; there will be no improvement in "clarity and depth", just added window-dressings and flashy tchotchkes.

Releasing a new edition of Ulysses with an 3D, moving cover will not make the story inside any better. Nor will adding HD, full-audio illustrations to the text. Download the book to your e-reader and you still won't be in possession of anything superior to the original. A great, engrossing story (as with video games) exists outside of such things. While it can assuredly make use of them, it certainly isn't at a loss without them.

  • 01.20.2011 11:18 AM PDT


Posted by: IGuardianReflexI
To be honest I didn't really think my post would taken even the slightest bit seriously. It's just one guy on a forum yelling, I LIKED YOUR GAME MAKE ANOTHER ONE BUNGIE! which in reality is all that is accomplished even if well worded and detailed as to your reasonings. All that my statement was intended to express was that I would enjoy a pathways game in some form on current systems.
Heh, didn't count on drawing the Journeymen away from their dusty tomes and out of the dank, dark corners of Myth and Marathon lore eh? You shouldn't be surprised when discussion of Pathways draws a lively response from seemingly dead or forgotten entities.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to sleep until the next unsuspecting rogue gives the yellow crystal a shake.

  • 01.20.2011 3:31 PM PDT


Posted by: Sardonic13
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to sleep until the next unsuspecting rogue gives the yellow crystal a shake.
Wouldn't that imply that you are dead? :p

  • 01.20.2011 4:32 PM PDT

I would not mind a Pathways 2. The original is still one of my favorites, so I suppose I am one of the few Placid mentioned.

Anyway, the PiD Demo vA1 and the Pid Demo v2.0 are really fun to play. That can be your sequel if you don't mind.

Oh, if you do mind, Pathways Redux can be your sequel. Although that is a whole lot different than the original Pathways, it is one of my favorite Doom 3 mods. And if you mind that as well, then just wait for PiD Rewritten. Or you can wait for MPiD, which may take a few more years.

  • 01.20.2011 5:59 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."


Posted by: Halosopher

Posted by: Sardonic13
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to sleep until the next unsuspecting rogue gives the yellow crystal a shake.
Wouldn't that imply that you are dead? :p


Seven men in overcoats jump from the shadows and carry Halosopher away. He is never heard from again.

  • 01.20.2011 6:06 PM PDT

*escapes with the aid of the blue crytal*
So Placid, Is the MPiD going to be "slowed down" a bit like the level in Marathon 1 for Aleph One named something like "Grendel Lives"? If not, then I'd like to suggest that it is at least partially slowed down like that ;)

*The effects of the blue crystal wear off and Halosopher is taken*

  • 01.21.2011 3:25 AM PDT

A Silent Cartographer

@Mr M12LRV

thank you, this was what I was looking for.

  • 01.26.2011 12:56 PM PDT

Posted by: IGuardianReflexI
@Mr M12LRV

thank you, this was what I was looking for.
You're welcome. Which ones did you try playing?

  • 02.18.2011 4:44 PM PDT


Posted by: Mr M12LRV
Posted by: IGuardianReflexI
@Mr M12LRV

thank you, this was what I was looking for.
You're welcome. Which ones did you try playing?
So who sold you a charm of infinite recall M12?

"Let sleeping dogs lie.
Let sleeping Gods die.

Dogs die
Gods..."

[Edited on 02.18.2011 8:58 PM PST]

  • 02.18.2011 8:57 PM PDT

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