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Subject: How Long does it take a Covenant Fleet to Glass a Planet?

We're never what we invent or intend.

It occurs to me that there seem to be two types of plasma bombardment: glassing/excavation beams (as seen at Voi/New Alexandria/New Mombasa) and torpedo bombardment. (from the prologue to First Strike, and hitting around Sword Base) The glassing beam is slow, through, and is almost definitely the type of attack that the data pads speak of.

However, if you read First Strike, watch the cutscene from Long Night of Solace where Sword Base is glassed, or even look back at the Reach announcement trailer, you see huge blossoming explosions, certainly larger than the tiny patch that a glassing beam would create.

Hence, the Covenant are capable of glassing planets. They use glassing beams where they need to be precise or just provide overkill, while torpedo bombardment is reserved for the rest of the world, truly reducing it to molten slag.

Posted by:the n00b pwner
Depends, are they using plasma torpedoes or energy projectors? Plasma torpedoes can glass 1 acre every 10 seconds, energy projectors can glass 15 acres per second, 150 times faster. So I would estimate about a year given 2000 ships with plasma torpedoes were estimated to be able to glass earth in 30 years.
I think that you've got it backwards... think about it: energy projector is a thin beam, you see it used in New Alexandria and Voi. Think back to the part of New Alexandria where you're flying around, and you see a Covenant ship let loose with the beam... it certainly doesn't glass 15 acres. If it took an energy projector 1 second to glass 15 acres, with five ships above, New Alexandria certainly wouldn't have taken 2+ days to glass, as the time/date stamp at the end of the mission suggests.

[Edited on 01.17.2011 5:56 AM PST]

  • 01.17.2011 5:51 AM PDT

Valiant men have died here so we don't have to, so let's get the hell out.

I feel like the Assembly's assumption about how long it would take the Covenant to glass a world is incorrect. I don't remember the time stamp from that particular data pad, but is it possible that they based their math on out of date information? If they only had telemetry from like, the first battle of Harvest (with the one ship) or a Corvette or those destroyer things from Halo Wars they may not have been able to account for ships like Assault Carriers and Super Carriers.

I don't know... it was pretty clear up until the data pads were released that the Covenant actually did glass planets. Truth even threatens it (although he was pretty far gone into nutsoid land at that point and he may have just been using the time tested tool of hyperbole).

I'm also willing to accept the glassing beam/plasma torpedo explanation as a fix to this problem.

  • 01.17.2011 5:58 AM PDT

The Committee's calculations are a good starting point. The biggest unknown for them was how many ships the covenant have available, so they used the number of ships in the UNSC fleet as a realistic placeholder value. This is where they came up with the approx. 30 year time frame for the complete and total glassing of a planet roughly the size of Earth.

Now we can be reasonably certain the Covies possess a great many more ships than we do which would cut down the time significantly. However, it is also true (like stated above) that the Covenant probably don't take the time to 100% glass every single one of our planets. Most likely they only wipe out the signs of our civilization having been there (cities, rural outposts, agricultural areas, etc). This would save them considerable time and allow for them to keep the bulk of their fleet searching for and fighting Humanity.

  • 01.17.2011 6:11 AM PDT

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Lets go to Halo wars and find out lol. But seriously, It depends on many factors such as a planets features ect.

  • 01.17.2011 6:39 AM PDT


Posted by: opogjijijp
I think the Assembly got it wrong. The ending of Reach proves that it does not take 30 years to glass with 2000 ships.

Halo: Reach seems to show that the Assembly is accurate. There is nothing resembling the more literal glassing that is often assumed. Targeted areas of destruction and the resulting firestorms, yes. But nothing like every square centimeter of the surface burned with plasma, the oceans vaporized, and the atmosphere boiled off.


I don't think the Covenant ever literally "glassed" a planet. It'd take a planet covered in sand to do that effectively. The point is, the entire surface area of the planet is incinerated into a lifeless, barren volcano.

Like in the Return by Kevin Grace, or the end of Halo: Reach. Ever since day one I never believed they actually "glassed" whole worlds. That was just a term the Covenant used. The Assembly simply took them too literally.

  • 01.17.2011 6:45 AM PDT

Posted by: Adragalus
It occurs to me that there seem to be two types of plasma bombardment: glassing/excavation beams (as seen at Voi/New Alexandria/New Mombasa) and torpedo bombardment. (from the prologue to First Strike, and hitting around Sword Base) The glassing beam is slow, through, and is almost definitely the type of attack that the data pads speak of.

However, if you read First Strike, watch the cutscene from Long Night of Solace where Sword Base is glassed, or even look back at the Reach announcement trailer, you see huge blossoming explosions, certainly larger than the tiny patch that a glassing beam would create.

Hence, the Covenant are capable of glassing planets. They use glassing beams where they need to be precise or just provide overkill, while torpedo bombardment is reserved for the rest of the world, truly reducing it to molten slag.

Posted by:the n00b pwner
Depends, are they using plasma torpedoes or energy projectors? Plasma torpedoes can glass 1 acre every 10 seconds, energy projectors can glass 15 acres per second, 150 times faster. So I would estimate about a year given 2000 ships with plasma torpedoes were estimated to be able to glass earth in 30 years.
I think that you've got it backwards... think about it: energy projector is a thin beam, you see it used in New Alexandria and Voi. Think back to the part of New Alexandria where you're flying around, and you see a Covenant ship let loose with the beam... it certainly doesn't glass 15 acres. If it took an energy projector 1 second to glass 15 acres, with five ships above, New Alexandria certainly wouldn't have taken 2+ days to glass, as the time/date stamp at the end of the mission suggests.


I may have it backwards, however I assumed the committee was talking about plasma torpedoes because they had not encountered energy projectors yet (the calculation was done early in the war).

Also, I think the cruisers were taking their time at New Alexandria, compare them to the cruisers in the cutscene at the end of the mission floodgate. Those cruisers were moving and constantly glassing in order to be sure no flood would survive.

As for the torpedoes, the books described them as melting through things, not exploding. Perhaps what was seen in the LNoS cutscene were antimatter charges or some form of covenant bomb.

  • 01.17.2011 10:13 AM PDT

Yes, I'm a furry. And yes, I like men. So what?

I thought it took close to three days?

Give or take a few hours.

Glassing is considered a holy act by the Covenant, as detailed in Evolutions, and it would seem that they use excavation beams to carve Forerunner glyphs into the planet.

[Edited on 01.17.2011 10:25 AM PST]

  • 01.17.2011 10:23 AM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I think the Assembly got it wrong. The ending of Reach proves that it does not take 30 years to glass with 2000 ships.

Not counting losses (which were substantial) the Covenant had 700 ships at Reach, but incinerated the entire planet's surface within one day.

So it seems the AIs were wrong.

The Covenant had 314 ships at Reach, not 700. And 2/3 of their fleet was destroyed in the battle.

It also took the fleet about 2 weeks to partially glass Reach, up to the point when Master Chief returned to Reach to recover the other Spartans in First Strike.

  • 01.17.2011 10:57 AM PDT
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We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I think the Assembly got it wrong. The ending of Reach proves that it does not take 30 years to glass with 2000 ships.

Not counting losses (which were substantial) the Covenant had 700 ships at Reach, but incinerated the entire planet's surface within one day.

So it seems the AIs were wrong.


no human planet was ever fully glassed. the short story " the return" and the novel reach itself talks about this.

just the major population centers were.

  • 01.17.2011 1:34 PM PDT

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To much information, I say it depends on how many ships you have.
Posted by: opogjijijp
A Covenant ship can glass 1 acre in 15 seconds. Reach is bigger than Earth. I'll give it a diameter of 15,000 km. Estimating the shape as a sphere, that's a surface area of ~700,000,000 km^2, or ~170,000,000,000 acres. Tthe time should be 81,000/[number of ships in the fleet] years.

Of course, this all depends on your definition of 'glass.' You could kill the population, destroy any cities, and seriously mess with the environment with much less time. You don't need to completely burn every square centimeter of the surface with plasma to cause a lot of damage.

  • 01.17.2011 1:36 PM PDT

They don't actually glass the entire planet they just glass the major population centers.

  • 01.17.2011 1:36 PM PDT
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what ship based weapon did the covenant use when they destroyed the Temple* on Delta Halo?

**the temple where MC Killed Regret.

  • 01.17.2011 5:58 PM PDT

Posted by: Joeaxamus
I don't know... it was pretty clear up until the data pads were released that the Covenant actually did glass planets. Truth even threatens it (although he was pretty far gone into nutsoid land at that point and he may have just been using the time tested tool of hyperbole).
The "you will get glassed" threat was started by the Covenant. They were exaggerating, and they continued to exaggerate. All other descriptions are from the point of view of humans - who have been fooled by the Assembly to believe that they Covenant can actually turn planetary surfaces to glass.

Any assumptions that the Assembly underestimated Covenant ship power are nonsensical. The difference between 30 years and 1 day is a factor of ten thousand. If a Covenant fleet was only using 1/10000 of its power in early encounters, it would mean that either one single UNSC frigate could have beaten whole fleets at that point, or that one single covenant cruiser could have soloed the UNSC fleet at full power. It's a clear fact that the power required to beat a hundred-strong UNSC fleet is far smaller than the power required to melt the entire surface of a planet. That should have been clear since FoR was released.

Again, glassing =/= turning the entire planet's surface into glass. Glassing = bombarding the planet, killing all life, ruining the civilization.

  • 01.17.2011 9:38 PM PDT
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I feel like the Assembly's assumption about how long it would take the Covenant to glass a world is incorrect. I don't remember the time stamp from that particular data pad, but is it possible that they based their math on out of date information?

That doesn't seem to likely. If that is the case, why no amendments? Why does Dr. Halsey agree with them that the Covenant can't actually glass worlds?

It seems to me that this was Bungie retconning glassing. Though I could be very wrong, and wouldn't be too unhappy if I was. It may more sense for them not to be able to do it, but there was something terrifying about the 'old' glassing as described in TFoR.

[Edited on 01.17.2011 10:10 PM PST]

  • 01.17.2011 10:04 PM PDT

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Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

It takes exactly one opogjijijp time unit (otu) for the Covenant to glass a planet.

  • 01.17.2011 10:08 PM PDT

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I think the Assembly got it wrong. The ending of Reach proves that it does not take 30 years to glass with 2000 ships.

Not counting losses (which were substantial) the Covenant had 700 ships at Reach, but incinerated the entire planet's surface within one day.

So it seems the AIs were wrong.



Um. no, the AI were'nt. and the entire surface of reach was not glassed.

  • 01.18.2011 7:29 AM PDT

Posted by: opogjijijp
It seems to me that this was Bungie retconning glassing.
Technically, it's not a retcon. It's just an extreme version of the "ONI did it" thing. Though it's fine because the Assembly was introduced to us through this "retcon". Really shows how capable they are.

Also wouldn't use "seems". The case is very clear to me.

  • 01.18.2011 7:54 AM PDT

The Covenant can't actually Glass whole planets.

  • 01.18.2011 8:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: All be it
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I think the Assembly got it wrong. The ending of Reach proves that it does not take 30 years to glass with 2000 ships.

Not counting losses (which were substantial) the Covenant had 700 ships at Reach, but incinerated the entire planet's surface within one day.

So it seems the AIs were wrong.



Um. no, the AI were'nt. and the entire surface of reach was not glassed.

But wasn't most of it glassed?

I thought the only part left "Un-glassed" was the area surrounding Castle Base?

  • 01.18.2011 9:54 AM PDT

Posted by: C0MIC RELIEF

Posted by: All be it
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I think the Assembly got it wrong. The ending of Reach proves that it does not take 30 years to glass with 2000 ships.

Not counting losses (which were substantial) the Covenant had 700 ships at Reach, but incinerated the entire planet's surface within one day.

So it seems the AIs were wrong.



Um. no, the AI were'nt. and the entire surface of reach was not glassed.

But wasn't most of it glassed?

I thought the only part left "Un-glassed" was the area surrounding Castle Base?
Reach was "glassed", not literally glassed.

It takes 30 years to literally glass a planet, but mere days to "glass" one.

  • 01.18.2011 11:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: Mutoid Log
Posted by: C0MIC RELIEF

Posted by: All be it
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I think the Assembly got it wrong. The ending of Reach proves that it does not take 30 years to glass with 2000 ships.

Not counting losses (which were substantial) the Covenant had 700 ships at Reach, but incinerated the entire planet's surface within one day.

So it seems the AIs were wrong.



Um. no, the AI were'nt. and the entire surface of reach was not glassed.

But wasn't most of it glassed?

I thought the only part left "Un-glassed" was the area surrounding Castle Base?
Reach was "glassed", not literally glassed.

It takes 30 years to literally glass a planet, but mere days to "glass" one.

Huh.

I always thought Harvest was completely glassed?

  • 01.18.2011 3:48 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I think the Assembly got it wrong. The ending of Reach proves that it does not take 30 years to glass with 2000 ships.

Not counting losses (which were substantial) the Covenant had 700 ships at Reach, but incinerated the entire planet's surface within one day.

So it seems the AIs were wrong.


Actually, they did not burn anywhere close to the entire surface of Reach. While it doesn't take long to do a lot of damage, it certainly isn't plausible to glass an entire planet.

  • 01.18.2011 4:07 PM PDT

Posted by: C0MIC RELIEF

Posted by: Mutoid Log
Posted by: C0MIC RELIEF

Posted by: All be it
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I think the Assembly got it wrong. The ending of Reach proves that it does not take 30 years to glass with 2000 ships.

Not counting losses (which were substantial) the Covenant had 700 ships at Reach, but incinerated the entire planet's surface within one day.

So it seems the AIs were wrong.



Um. no, the AI were'nt. and the entire surface of reach was not glassed.

But wasn't most of it glassed?

I thought the only part left "Un-glassed" was the area surrounding Castle Base?
Reach was "glassed", not literally glassed.

It takes 30 years to literally glass a planet, but mere days to "glass" one.

Huh.

I always thought Harvest was completely glassed?
Harvest was near-completely "glassed". Every human world the Covenant claimed was completely or near-completely "glassed" (Forerunner artifacts were not glassed). No human world was completely literally glassed.

  • 01.18.2011 4:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: opogjijijp
A Covenant ship can glass 1 acre in 15 seconds. Reach is bigger than Earth. I'll give it a diameter of 15,000 km. Estimating the shape as a sphere, that's a surface area of ~700,000,000 km^2, or ~170,000,000,000 acres. Tthe time should be 81,000/[number of ships in the fleet] years.

Of course, this all depends on your definition of 'glass.' You could kill the population, destroy any cities, and seriously mess with the environment with much less time. You don't need to completely burn every square centimeter of the surface with plasma to cause a lot of damage.


Sounds reasonable.

  • 01.18.2011 4:49 PM PDT

We're never what we invent or intend.


Posted by: the n00b pwner
As for the torpedoes, the books described them as melting through things, not exploding. Perhaps what was seen in the LNoS cutscene were antimatter charges or some form of covenant bomb.
I think that when fired down towards a planet's surface, they'd behave a bit like water balloons, if the analogy holds. It'd be a pretty massive convection effect, and a huge disappating fireball might look like an explosion from space.

  • 01.18.2011 6:04 PM PDT

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