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Subject: Save The Underground Campaign!

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/atticus/Group/GroupHome.aspx

Save the Underground Campaign!

This is something that came to me today, Taz was talking about how crappy it has gotten and overrun with Halo 3 topics.

So I have decided to start this:

For one specified day, all those who decide to help the cause will post in the underground something significant about Marathon, Myth, Oni, Gnop, P@S (heh, mb), ANYTHING old skool. All the pre-Halo games bungie has come out with will be discussed.

After the posts are created, we comment in each. All those who join up will keep the threads "bumped" to the top, but not just by saying bump or something stupid, we will reply to the threads. Realisticly and Maturely. Say something good or help with the problems addressed in each topic, if one topic seems to have been discussed entirely, we will create a new one. NO spam, just good clean Old Skool discussion.

I am doing this because I am tired of the underground, I hardly bother with it anymore, I have not posted in it in over 3 weeks. Anytime I have made a post about Marathon, one in particular addressing a confusing quesiton about it, it has been lost to the crap. In that one occasion, I had to make the post again because I could not find it in the first 10 pages the day after it was made. ( I used Ctrl - F on each page with the title and scanned by eye). Its getting out of hand and flat out ridiculous. I want to see the Halo 3 fanatics faces when they wake up, log on, hoping to see some new halo 3 rumor they can get hyped about, only to find old skool topics encasing the entire first 2 pages.

If you want to be apart of this let me know via this thread or PM. I want to try and get this as best as orgnaized and possible and let everyone know when this day will be, i hope soon. (asap).

now, Im notsaying everoyn emakes tons and tons and tons of posts... thats not it. Each person will make ONE (1) post each. Thats it. Just one. And then reply to the others when they see something thet can comment on. Im not going to tell anyone to Force a reply, or to make a new post, its all done of thier own will, but its organized.

[Edited on 12/3/2005]

  • 12.03.2005 12:25 PM PDT

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

That would technically be "Organized Spamming." I would not try it...but go ahead if you wish to taste the likes of drunken bananas

  • 12.03.2005 12:26 PM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/atticus/Group/GroupHome.aspx

We wont be spamming, every post will have a purpose, not just nothingness. And we wont reply with stupid words. Every reply will be thought out..

So technically, its "Organized Mass Posting". Spam is more en masse useless posts.

If it is against the rules and we should not do it, tell me. But I think the people posting 4 Halo 3 threads per minute (ppm, post per minute.. heh.) is more spammage than Bringing true life back into the place.

Call it what you want, unless Achronos or the mods agree that it should not be done, then I am going to go through with it.

Its just like on of those Marches on the streets. Now, would you call teh March for Cancer awareness, "spamming the streets?" you may, but its good spam. Although some may say all spam is bad spam, there is good spam.

[Edited on 12/3/2005]

  • 12.03.2005 12:36 PM PDT
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Only the paranoid will survive!

It seems totally pointless to me. What are you going to accomplish? The Underground has Halo 3 discussions in it now. That isn't going to change because some people spam it with old-skool topics. Just because you, Taz, and others (myself included) don't like it doesn't mean it should change.

  • 12.03.2005 12:44 PM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/atticus/Group/GroupHome.aspx

There are more than just me taz and you. And is not spamming it with Old Skool topics, well, it sorta is. I just want to discuss Marathon or something, I love that game and all but theres nothing on it. And the Halo 3 crap is annoying.

Look at it this way, over aim you said Spam, but if I had not posted this here, and just organized it in secret, and we did it, would you even think of it as spam? Most likely not. 1 post per person, it would more have been recognized as a coincidence and no one would have known it was organized at all.

That isnt cool though, that is more Organized Spam. I am telling everone upfront right now. So if someone doesnt want me to do it, someone with power, then I can back down and not have ever done anything wrong.

All it takes is for Achronos to say "no" and it shall be. None of the mods are on so I cant ask them.


I think some are taking this the wrong way, or missing a few points, its not meant to spam or to drive out Halo 3 topics, its just meant to get people to realize what the Underground is really for and to spark some old skool discussion.

  • 12.03.2005 12:48 PM PDT

- Mike

Anti Says: Burn the Mother DOWN!

  • 12.03.2005 12:49 PM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/atticus/Group/GroupHome.aspx

The Underground:
Current Status

18 posts on page 1.
7 Stickies
9 Halo 3 Topics
2 non - Halo 3 related topics.


To me, THAT is spam.


Instead of just saying NO IM A GOOD BOY! OMFG! why dont you guys try to help a way to make it not "spammy" as you say?!?! Hmm?

Why do you jump on me saying NO U! the moment I suggest something because its not 100% rule savy?

There is such a thing as making suggestions, which will be accepted and thought over. Why not suggest i dunno, a lesser amount of posts? The same amount over a larger time period? Something other than "no, its bad". Just becase you dont want to get in trouble or be banned doesnt mean you cant stand up to whats right! You know that none of you like the Halo 3 crap there. Most of you would rather be talking about b.net oldskool and such. But your not gonna support me when I actually try to do something about it?!?! Even if its not the right way to go about doing something about it, help me MAKE it that way.

Stop stamping out anything that doesnt agree with your b.net standards. Let things have a chance and they may flourish. You never know...

[Edited on 12/3/2005]

  • 12.03.2005 12:52 PM PDT

. . . . . . . . .___________
. . . . . ,,,---'..__________`````~~,,,,
. . .,,~`..,-~```,,------------__``~~,,,....``-,,
__/....~'. . . . l,,,"""""""/...,~. . . . `-......\
|___/. . . . . . . . . . . ./_..'~,. . . . . .\.....'===
. . . . . . . .,-,,_. . . . . .)....\. . . . . . /...../
. . . . . . . _'~--.```````````--~'. . . __-''....,-'
. . . . . . .'-_````~~~----~~~~`````..._-~'
By Twin. . .````~~-------~~~~``````
شون

Yes, we should do something about this. Nobody really cares about this rumored Halo 3 anymore, so go take your ideas somewhere else. I would love to discuss some Bungie oldschool games, not something that isn't even real yet.

  • 12.03.2005 1:08 PM PDT

Only Becausae I'm Awesome

Forum Tutorials --- WATCH THEM AND LEARN

Is there a 4 letter acronym for this group?

STUC perhaps.

[Edited on 12/3/2005]

  • 12.03.2005 1:12 PM PDT

. . . . . . . . .___________
. . . . . ,,,---'..__________`````~~,,,,
. . .,,~`..,-~```,,------------__``~~,,,....``-,,
__/....~'. . . . l,,,"""""""/...,~. . . . `-......\
|___/. . . . . . . . . . . ./_..'~,. . . . . .\.....'===
. . . . . . . .,-,,_. . . . . .)....\. . . . . . /...../
. . . . . . . _'~--.```````````--~'. . . __-''....,-'
. . . . . . .'-_````~~~----~~~~`````..._-~'
By Twin. . .````~~-------~~~~``````
شون

Also, who could disagree with my postition on the Halo 3 topics? Seriously, these threads need to stop. It's really annoying how these kids are trying to boss Bungie into their demands.

  • 12.03.2005 1:13 PM PDT
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Think about how long it would last. Half a week, maybe one week. Then it's back to the old ways. Don't say that you and the members accompaning you are going to keep replying to it to keep Old Skool threads up there all the time, because it will not happen. You are outnumbered by the members who like to post about Halo 3, and I'm sure you and your friends don't get on B.net every day. You do the math.

[Edited on 12/3/2005]

  • 12.03.2005 1:40 PM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/atticus/Group/GroupHome.aspx

Its not meant to replace the halo 3 ism for more than 1 day. After that day, we hope there will be enough interest or discussion at least to keep a few afloat for a while.

If nothing else, it will be a great change from the ordinary.

  • 12.03.2005 2:05 PM PDT
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I decided to help the Underground a bit by making counter threads. People make topics about Halo3, i make a topic about something called THUD!

  • 12.03.2005 2:06 PM PDT

Only Becausae I'm Awesome

Forum Tutorials --- WATCH THEM AND LEARN

Something tells me this is gona die, just like the other two groups that tried to save the forums.

  • 12.03.2005 2:44 PM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/atticus/Group/GroupHome.aspx

This is just a day thing. Nothing Huge.

  • 12.03.2005 3:18 PM PDT

-S

If any of this bumping strikes me as bumping, IE, someone posts clearly just to bring the thread back to the top, the thread will be locked and the bumper will be blacklisted.

  • 12.03.2005 3:26 PM PDT

I hate everything, but it's not my fault.

Well said Recon. While I too wish that The Underground could have Oldschool discussions again, I am afraid that there is nothing that we can do at the moment. Once Bungie announces there next project, makes a seperate forum for it, and perhaps make the forum descriptions clearer; then maybe The Underground can return to its former self. Until then we must wait, which every Bungie fan should be capable of doing.

  • 12.03.2005 4:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: littlerat
Is there a 4 letter acronym for this group?

STUC perhaps.

How about 'Save The Flooded Underground'?

  • 12.03.2005 4:18 PM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/atticus/Group/GroupHome.aspx

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: littlerat
Something tells me this is gona die, just like the other two groups that tried to save the forums.

They were well intended, (but ultimately doomed from the start) efforts. As is this one.

Nakki Kedem, I really do understand and appreciate the purpose of this project. I know for a fact that your motivations and intent are completely well meaning and are focused on improving the forums and the fan community.

More than anything, I respect and thank you that you proposed this publicly and stated that you would defer to the decisions of Overlord and consider the opinions of the moderators. Thank you for that. It further demonstrates that you are not proposing this based on a self-serving need or from a desire to feed your ego.

Littlerat makes a subtle and important point however. There have been similar efforts in the past. Well meaning, well intentioned, maturely planned, professionally (to varying degrees) executed, and in the end, because they were organized, they ended up causing more problems than they solved.

The fact is that the members who are currently making The Underground a very busy place are members. Each is an individual, and each has their own view. If the Halo 3 posters were to see an organized attempt to counter their use of the forums, they would resent it and organize in response.

The ultimate decision on whether the forums are being abused or used is up to both the people who own the forums (Bungie) and the people who use them (the members). Bungie staff have repeatedly advised the moderators that all speculative threads about the "current project" belong in The Underground. So the first vote is from Bungie and I think that the forums are being used the way that they want.

The members also are speaking. The Underground is now a beehive (no pun intended) of activity. As an Old-school fan and player, I recall how sedate, civil and old-school that forum used to be. Mostly discussions about older games, introducing new players to them, discussing old theories and occasionally some speculation about Bungie inner-workings or projects.

There is a time for all things under the sun. At this time, Bungie has decided that those topics are to be placed there. They have heard reasonably phrased and polite requests for an old-school forum. Those requests have been declined.

The fact that you desire to make on-topic, old-school threads is admirable. I take part in any of those that I see if I feel that I can contribute to it. It's one of the reasons that I am member of these forums. I enjoy discussing things that are of interest to me.

My guess is that on-topic, old-school threads may get the interest of some of the members who are there for Halo 3 speculation. So, getting "new blood" interested in old-school is a good thing, and it is likely to occur because of the Halo 3 speculation threads.

To me, that means that Bungie is right in thinking that the forums are working as intended.

Organizing a collection of members to overtly attempt to "take back" a forum would be counterproductive to that. I know that you never stated or gave the impression that what you wanted was to "take back" The Underground. The problem is that as soon as anyone thinks that they have been labeled as "them" by someone else, they want to gather up the rest of the "thems" to show the "us's" that they can't be pushed around.

My advice? Just use the forums in a way that you can enjoy. Try to ignore (or walk around) the parts that make your blood boil. We've got tons of great members here. Everyone should be able to find discussions that specifically interest them.


Very good point recon. I had hoped it would be possible without to many drawbacks, but im sure there will be some, and they may be bad.

I dunno if I will go through with it still or not, no official word on whether or not its "allowed" other than shishka... but he's well... shishka.

Maybe we just have a "OldSkool Recognition Week" instead? For an entire week we could base b.net around OldSkool ness, invite everoyne to join the discussions and set up a ton of older games online multiplayer and such. Get some Myth and Marathon tourneys running all week. I dunno, that would probably be a better all around stab at what I was trying to accomplish.

Thanks for the input everyone.

  • 12.03.2005 4:55 PM PDT
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"Whatever exists, whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent. These anonymous creatures may seem little or nothing in the world. Yet the smallest crumb can devour us. Any smallest thing beneath yon rock out of men's knowing. Only nature can enslave man and only when the existence of each last entity is routed out and made to stand naked before him will he be properly suzerain of the earth."

Frankly, I fail to see how it is actually against the rules. Provided that those who participate are not continually try to create new posts about a single game, but instead create one dedicated to Marathon (the series), one to Myth, and so on.

Naturally though, this is simply going to be a phase. It will pass in time. Once Bungie's next project is released, there will probably be a new forum created for discussion of the game, and the Underground shall be "returned."

I would help you guys, if I had known about the games when they came out. But, I have only played a trial of Myth. I would not help at all.

  • 12.03.2005 5:15 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

I will help Naki with what ever course of action he chooses to take.

Tell me what you want me to to do and i will tery has long has im not stepping on anyones toes.

  • 12.03.2005 5:37 PM PDT
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Only the paranoid will survive!

Posted by: Nakki Kedem
I think some are taking this the wrong way, or missing a few points, its not meant to spam or to drive out Halo 3 topics, its just meant to get people to realize what the Underground is really for and to spark some old skool discussion.


What the Underground is for is Bungie Old Skool and Bungie General discussion. It's for excatly what it's being used for.

and this is in your first post-

[quote]Posted by: Nakki Kedem
I want to see the Halo 3 fanatics faces when they wake up, log on, hoping to see some new halo 3 rumor they can get hyped about, only to find old skool topics encasing the entire first 2 pages.[/b]

That seems an awful lot like trying to spam and drive out Halo 3 topics to me. That's just my opinion though. I think this is rather silly and completely pointless though, so I won't comment on it further.

  • 12.03.2005 5:41 PM PDT
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I see what you mean, Recon. And I agree.

However, if you do go through with this, dibs on making a thread about Weekend Warriors!

  • 12.03.2005 5:55 PM PDT

Discipline is my Sword,
Faith is my Shield,
Do not leap blindly into uncertainty,
And you may live to reap the rewards.

"The Important Thing Is To Never Stop Questioning,"

Nakki I understand what you are after, and I can sympathize. But, I'm with the rest here in thinking thta this is the wrong way to go about it. I do however really like your second idea.

Think about it, a "7th Column Old Skool Awareness Month." We could have tons of Old Skool discussions, Old Skool Fan Fic and Art Contests, Old Skool tournaments and weekly games, ect.... I think this is a great idea. If anyone else is interested PM me and we can hammer out some details and see if we can make it a reality. I have an entire site we can host things from if we need to, lets make this happen.

[Edited on 12/3/2005]

  • 12.03.2005 5:56 PM PDT

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