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Subject: Prophets and Illusions - Questioning the Jihadist theory that fans ...

Most of the Halo community assumes that the Covenant are some type of religious fanatics, with plenty of evidence to support that theory I might add. I for one think that this religion is just a big coverup. The Covenant have all the hall marks of a Hittler/ Saddam/ Fill in the blankwith your favorite evil dictator (J/J) run regiems. Everyone is kept in line through fear. Usually this fear is founded upon an untold numbers of lies and illusions. Worshipping the Forerunners may have been apart of a religion at one time or another, but I think the Prophets have built up what may have once been a pure religion into some kind of political power structure that furthers some personal goal of theirs. The Prophets use this "religion" to keep all the other Covenant species in line, considering the Prophets seem to be the weakest of all the Covenant species. I'm not saying that the Forerunners never or don't exist... someone had to build all the Halos and such. I just think the whole notion of the Covenant being on some sort of "Holy Jihad" is a bit off. (not ment to offend anyone) If I'm right, and I realize have more holes in my theory than than a prostitute on Burbon Street, then we might see a collapse of some of the Covenant Empire in Halo 2. Lies are a lousy thing to build an Empire on...

I realize I have left myself open to the entire Halo communities wrath. So you guys may now commence in the insults, sarcastic remarks, and theories of your own:)

[Edited on 5/9/2004 9:18:20 PM]

  • 05.07.2004 3:36 PM PDT
Subject: The Covenant aren't on some Holy Jihad! (Come insult my theory)
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Yeah, the prophets may be using the religion as a way to control the other species of covanent, but I do think they really believe in the religion. Fanatically, even.

[Edited on 5/7/2004 4:00:31 PM]

  • 05.07.2004 4:00 PM PDT
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It's probably the 'common enemy' thoery. As for it being a Jihad, it is, the book says so, as in the game too.

  • 05.07.2004 4:01 PM PDT
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WRATH!!! MWHAHAHAHA!!! Okay then.

Personnally I don't care. They want me dead, there fore I kill them first. They want my people dead, therfore I kill them first. I am about to be turned to a chared and smoldering corpse, but I don't care. I try to kill as many of those sons-of--blam!-es before I die. That is my creed with any force (other than humans) that would see us destroyed for any reason. Religous or political, it makes no difference to me. They just all need to die before we are extinct. Period.

  • 05.07.2004 4:04 PM PDT

I agree that they believe in the Forerunners. I just think they (the Prophets) are manipulating what may have once been a religion into a political power structure. Kind of like, not really, the story in the Bible where Jesus goes to the temple and sees that the "Richer" people (Merchants) had turned the temple into a market place. In this story, the people of the town in which this occured believed that what was going on in the temple was o.k., maybe even religious. But in reality, the merchants had decieved the people of the town by using religion as a front. Same concept could apply to the Covenant.

[Edited on 5/7/2004 5:59:27 PM]

  • 05.07.2004 4:08 PM PDT
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They were not using religion as a front, they were just seeling things at the temple. But We get the idea.

  • 05.07.2004 4:09 PM PDT
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To the author of this post-

I'll go easy on you because of your closing comments, but mostly because of the analogy to the prostitute.

LOL, that was funny.

You have a good start but you have only started to scratch the surfact of the halo "onion". Keep peeling because its much bigger than you think. Not in some other meaningful way like if you end up figuring it all out you'll go to the seventh plane of enlightenment, but rather it goes deeper than this and is much more complex than you think. Look harder and you will find more. Bungie is creating a modern mythology here. Its built on the mythology of the past and is reflective of current and future events. Look and you shall see.

PS - I'll let you in on a little secret. All religions are a front for something else.

[Edited on 5/7/2004 4:13:43 PM]

  • 05.07.2004 4:11 PM PDT

The merchants were using religion as a front. They went to the temple, which is a place of worship, and instead of worshipping, they sold/tradded. It's a front because they come off as "religious" merchants by setting up shop at the temple instead of the market place... they wanted to be closer to God kind of thing. They used this front as a way of gaining an exclusive market... the religious people of the town. A religious person is more likely to buy from someone at the temple, who comes off as religious, instead of someone who isn't religious at the market place.

  • 05.07.2004 4:19 PM PDT
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responding to the non holy theroy i dont think so because... well i just dont. but the prophets may be using fear to controle the covanent because in the books even eleits fear them.

hey tartarus you have read the books obviously (the name you have shows it) do you think as i do that the weapon the brutes use to kill grace (spartan grace) in the 3rd book will be in the multiplayer for halo 2, as i think and hope.

  • 05.07.2004 4:19 PM PDT

Posted by: Tartarus
Bungie is creating a modern mythology here. Its built on the mythology of the past and is reflective of current and future events. Look and you shall see.


I have tryed to post threads on this deeper meaning/truth that you talk about. No one seemed to even have a clue what I was talking about. So, in order to convers with my fellow Halo fanatics I started to write stuff like this
.

Plato/Socrates:
There is always another layer of reality to pull away from your "eyes", which makes the reality you find yourself in now an illusion. To communicate with those in your past "realities" you can't stand on the podium of your current reality. You must wait on them to find it, or give them clues to it.(Paraphrasing of course)

[Edited on 5/13/2004 7:32:07 AM]

  • 05.07.2004 4:27 PM PDT

Posted by: Oppiten
It's probably the 'common enemy' thoery. As for it being a Jihad, it is, the book says so, as in the game too.


Of course the books say so. The charcters who you hear communicate in the book and game are those under the Prophets, not the Prophets themselves. They are saying that they are on a holy jihad because it is the illusion that they have been given to keep them in check. This really makes my point for me. (Not meant in a hurtfull way)

[Edited on 5/13/2004 7:33:39 AM]

  • 05.07.2004 4:31 PM PDT
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The prophets talk in the book, as well as the Elites, who are basically their partners.

  • 05.07.2004 4:40 PM PDT
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their religion is forerunners! they are fanatics for technology. they praise the forerunners as gods because the FR's boast superior tech!

  • 05.07.2004 4:49 PM PDT

The Prophets do talk in the books, but you never hear a corversation with just the Prophets talking to each other... in other words, with out another Covenant species around. This could be explained by the fact that Bungie doesn't want us to know the Prophet's real intentions just yet. The Elites are more of a hired mercenary, not an equal to the Prophets. This is explained in The Covenant Primer. The Elites are, for a lack of better words, the muscle, while the Prophets are the brain. The Elites do not come up with the plans of the Covenant Empire... they follow them. The Elite culture is set up like a military stucture. Who is at the top of the military: or rather, who gives the orders? Not the Generals and Admirals, but rather the politicians(Prophets). And, sense the Elites species was already setup like a military structure when the Prophets and Elites made an alliance, it worked out perfectly for the Prophets.

[Edited on 5/7/2004 6:03:27 PM]

  • 05.07.2004 4:55 PM PDT

Posted by: W D J
their religion is forerunners! they are fanatics for technology. they praise the forerunners as gods because the FR's boast superior tech!



Yet, the Forerunners made Halos all through out the universe to destroy all sentient life, which includes the Covenant (343 Guilty Spark). I wonder if all the Covenant sub species know that little bit of info? Why worship your destroyer?


[Edited on 5/13/2004 7:35:50 AM]

  • 05.07.2004 4:58 PM PDT
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christians still love God even though their is a chance they could go to hell if things had a diracstic turn for the worse. I think the forunners wiping out the universe is similar to that.

  • 05.07.2004 5:20 PM PDT

WARNING:
This isn't meant to inflame the Muslims, Buddist, Scientologist, or any other religous type.

I don't want to get into some religious food fight hear, but if your a Christian you can't go to hell. The way you become a Christian is by accepting Christ, which means that you deny the ways of the world. If you have a religious experience at church camp, but 2 weeks later your back to your old ways again... I don't think you qualify as a Christian, not that I'm the one who will judge you. I'm not saying that Christians are supposed to be perfect, that would make Jesus pointless... being that he's the only perfect one; therefore, he is the only one who can save us. You may think your a Christian and then die and go to hell, but if you are a Christian you can't go to hell.

Besides, God doesn't hold some sort of "Your going to hell if you step out of line" sign over the church. If he does, then CRAP I'm in trouble:) So, I don't think Christianity and the Covenant is a good analogy.



[Edited on 5/7/2004 5:48:59 PM]

  • 05.07.2004 5:36 PM PDT
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Well, hell exists in Christianity because God cannot force someone to love him, that becomes -blam!-. As for the covenate, I agree with your theory.

If you are going to comment on a specific religion, you MUST have all it's tenants in order before you make that statement. The topic is very iffy and it can offend many people. As well as insulting the Sacrament of Reconciliation, the second most important of the Roman Cathoilic faith, is no way to make friends. But you stated that as well as you could.

[Edited on 5/7/2004 5:39:15 PM]

  • 05.07.2004 5:37 PM PDT

P.S.
Just for the record, because I keep a long record of "things" in my basement, who are you talking to?

[Edited on 5/7/2004 5:44:06 PM]

  • 05.07.2004 5:42 PM PDT
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Yours, Eagle 117.

  • 05.07.2004 5:44 PM PDT

Ohhh! So, now that this is out of the way, if not then this statement is void, lets get back to the Covenant Jihadist stuff. I don't want to be the cause of some holy war on Bungie.net:)

  • 05.07.2004 5:52 PM PDT

Any late night forum goers have some input?

  • 05.07.2004 10:56 PM PDT

-S

Only that you shouldn't bump your own posts. ;)

And, I'll point out that the -blam!- regime did have a religious following as well. And, I think there's more to prove the theory that the Covenant find us to be vile and undeserving infidels that should be wiped from the galaxy, more than we're some byproduct of an illusion.

  • 05.08.2004 12:24 AM PDT
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Ok I just wanted to point out that a Jihad is usually used as a defensive holy war to raly all the countries together. Or to convert people. Cheese is good.

  • 05.08.2004 12:52 AM PDT

O.K., I guess I deserved that Shishka:) I really did just want to debate someone, so I'll go with you:)

I also agree that there is more evidence to support the "Humans are Vile Creatures" theory, and I state that in the begining of this thread. But, part of my arguement is that of course there would be more evidence to support that theory. It is the only side of the Covenant Bungie has exposed us to. I for one, and it really seems that way, refuse to think that the Covenant are this one dimensional. I think that the Covenant alliance system is modeled off of histories alliances, which usually use religion as a front in one way or another. As usual, we humans don't learn from our past history/mistakes, which in this case, the lesson not learned would be blameing everything on religion. What kind of game would Halo be if Bungie told us everything in advance... not a very surprising one. This is why there is such little "indept" info on the Covenant... Bungie doesn't want us to "get it" just yet. I'm not saying in any way that I get it, or that I know Bungie's plans for the Halo storyline. I just think the Covenant are more of a traditional alliance. An alliance setup up in which the leaders (Prophets) create an illusion to keep all the different factions (Covenant species) in line. The illusion in this case would be the forerunner religion. As Madison( I think) wrote many years ago... you can't controll factions, you can only hope to contain the factions effects. Because the Prophets are trying to control all the other Covenant species (factions), there will be some sort of collapse.


Also, I guess I could call into question that you the "moderator", who is apart of Bungie(sort of), stopped in this thread to lend your opinion... which, surprise! surprise!, happens to be the same theory that I am "right now" going to accuse Bungie of putting out there in the first place. I could go on and on, about how it is suspicious that you stepped in and assured ,in a way, the Bungie fans that there is more evidence for the vile human theory. But.... I have no evidence of these things, and I don't want to come off looking like some kid who hates Bungie. So, I'll shut up for now and wait for your response.

P.S.
This wasn't meant to make me look like a raving lunitic who doesn't listen to others opinions. Sorry if I come off like that, but I honestly understand everyones points and I respect them. Everyone is entiltled to their own opinion.. I just like to argue mine:)

[Edited on 5/13/2004 7:39:32 AM]

  • 05.08.2004 1:40 AM PDT

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