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Subject: Wrong about Brutes

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People seem to view the Brutes as lumbering morons, and think that they are easily defeated by "cunning Elites and Spartans".
If I had only played the games I would agree, but the books and assorted cannon say other wise.

I'll make a physical comparison with Elites just to clear things up a bit. (Sizes from Halopedia. Beastiarium and Encyclopedia info from Anton1792)

Height:

Elites are stated to stand 7'6" or 8'4" (my personal opinion being that, they hunch over, though that could just be gameplay)

Bestiarium: 2.2m or 7'2"
Encyclopaedia: 2.24m or 7'4"

Brutes stand 8'6" (Though many are stated to be at least 9') But in Contact Harvest Maccabeus is stated to stand a full head taller (1'aprox') than any Elite

Bestiarium: 2.8m or 9'2"
Encyclopaedia: 2.59m or 8'5"

Weight:

Elites are said to weigh 320lbs, although figures vary from source to source. (Personally this seems rather low but I am assuming that this is there weight without their power harness, which similar to a spartans suit provide shielding and strength no doubt at a heavy weight.)

Bestiarium: 144kg or 318lbs
Encyclopaedia: 144kg or 318lbs

Brutes weigh 1500lbs (According to Halopedia although I remember seeing 1000lbs somewhere) It is important to note that this is slightly less than five times an Elite. This is because of the fact that the the Brute home world has a gravity of more than twice earths.

Bestiarium: 1124lbs or 510kg
Encyclopaedia: 1500lbs or 680kg

Strength:

Elites (wearing combat harnesses) are nearly equal to a Spartan in Mjolnir armor (First Strike control room anyone?) A spartan can lift 3 times his/her body weight and the suit doubles there strength to 6 times there body weight. (The in game ability to flip multi-ton vehicles is for gameplay folks)

Brutes, They weigh 4.7 times an Elite, an incredible 1500lbs, in both Halo 3 and the elevator shaft in Contact Harvest they leap at least 15' straight up... The amount of force required to move a 1500lb object 15' straight up in a split second is enormous. Oh, and by the way that was without power armor (as the C.H. Brutes weren't always wearing theirs and the Halo 3 Brute's had been destroyed) The power armor does not increase the strength and is 1000lbs, yet does not seem to seriously hinder movement. Perhaps this is why the brutes in the latter games don't sprint?

Agility:

Elites are very mobile, dodging and rolling even strafing while firing throughout the games. There exact speed is unknown, but due to there long, reverse jointed legs and slim build(compared to Brutes) They can probably out-sprint any normal human.

Brutes... here is where the most people seem to be mistaken.
They see brutes as slow dumb ape-like thugs, while its true that they do use their raw strength as a weapon they are not lumbering beasts. In First Strike John-117s firt clue that they were not elites was that they moved to fast. People seem to forget that Brutes do not run upright, they sprint forward on all fours (Halo 2 beserkers?) much like a grizzly bear. This was most apparent in Halo 2, but in halo 3 the beserkers and chieftans ran on two legs, and were still very light on there feet. (I've had cheiftans dodge rockets)

Intelligence and Tactics:

Elites win, but not as easily as you might think. (I won't waste time but elites are clever, resourceful and brilliant tacitions)

Brutes... the prophets did not stab the the Elites in the back for the Brutes aestetic appeal. The Brutes had allready developed space flight and nuclear weapons before they were discovered by the Covenant. They also led squads into battle, flew ships and have proven capable at every job once occupied by Elites. Also, the parts of Contact Harvest show the brutes to be reasonably intelligent and there combat techniques were supprisingly refined.



All Right well, I don't know if this was worth an hour, but I might add more later. Please enjoy :D

[Edited on 01.19.2011 8:59 PM PST]

  • 01.19.2011 7:05 PM PDT
Subject: Wrong About Brutes

Agreed, 1 Berserker Brute would take down 3 Zealots with ease according to the books, Brutes own. =]

  • 01.19.2011 7:12 PM PDT
Subject: Wrong about Brutes

I agree. We have learned the brutes have a completely different heritage. And a brutal hierarchy.

  • 01.19.2011 7:13 PM PDT

Brutes are strange because while they are obviously intelligent, they are too prone to violence to use the intelligence well. And the games don't show how strong they actually are.

  • 01.19.2011 7:14 PM PDT

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If an elite's judo kick to the face means instant death to a spartan, than what would a brutes do? *shudders

  • 01.19.2011 7:18 PM PDT

And about them jumping so high, its most likley the higher gravity of their homeworld. I assume you already know that, Due to your Knoledge of the subject

  • 01.19.2011 7:18 PM PDT
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I agree

  • 01.19.2011 7:29 PM PDT

We'll bury our burdens in blood...

Brutes are very dangerous indeed. But their failing is in their culture. Infighting weakens their command structure. Elites are not just brilliant tactical commanders and proficient warriors, they are disciplined. Discipline is the hallmark of any successful military organization. Now I'm not saying that Brutes aren't disciplined on some level, they'd have to be. But I am saying that the difference in the level of discipline is like the difference between Vikings and Samurai.

  • 01.19.2011 7:43 PM PDT

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Brutes are very dangerous indeed. But their failing is in their culture. Infighting weakens their command structure. Elites are not just brilliant tactical commanders and proficient warriors, they are disciplined. Discipline is the hallmark of any successful military organization. Now I'm not saying that Brutes aren't disciplined on some level, they'd have to be. But I am saying that the difference in the level of discipline is like the difference between Vikings and Samurai.I only wish to express my concern that the Brutes - are just labeled as mindless attack dogs, instead of capable warriors. You are however entirely correct in your statement, the urge to "lead the pack" is not something you want in every foot solider and makes a cohesive government nearly impossible

[Edited on 01.19.2011 7:56 PM PST]

  • 01.19.2011 7:52 PM PDT

We'll bury our burdens in blood...



Oh yea, Brutes aren't dumb. Just easily controlled. Which is why the prophets chose them to betray the Elites.

[Edited on 01.19.2011 7:57 PM PST]

  • 01.19.2011 7:57 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Makko Mace
Height:

Elites are stated to stand 7'6" or 8'4" (my personal opinion being that, they hunch over, though that could just be gameplay)

Bestiarium: 2.2m or 7'2"
Encyclopaedia: 2.24m or 7'4"

Posted by: Makko Mace
Brutes stand 8'6" (Though many are stated to be at least 9') But in Contact Harvest Maccabeus is stated to stand a full head (1'aprox') than any Elite

Bestiarium: 2.8m or 9'2"
Encyclopaedia: 2.59m or 8'5"

The stats for their heights are all over the place. I tend to take them as an average range. Regardless, it is clear that the Elite's tallest average is smaller than the Brutes shortest average.

Posted by: Makko Mace
Weight:

Elites are said to weigh 320lbs, although figures vary from source to source. (Personally this seems rather low but I am assuming that this is there weight without their power harness, which similar to a spartans suit provide shielding and strength no doubt at a heavy weight.)

Bestiarium: 144kg or 318lbs
Encyclopaedia: 144kg or 318lbs

No specific weight given for their armour system.

Posted by: Makko Mace
Brutes weigh 1500lbs (According to Halopedia although I remember seeing 1000lbs somewhere) It is important to note that this is slightly less than five times an Elite. This is because of the fact that the the Brute home world has a gravity of more than twice earths.

Bestiarium: 1124lbs or 510kg
Encyclopaedia: 1500lbs or 680kg

Also noted in the encyclopaedia is the weight of the Brutes power armour, which weighs 1000lbs or 453.59kg. This armour does not support itself nor offers any additional speed or strength to the wearer unlike the Spartan MJOLNIR or Elite Combat Harness. So they essentially heft this weight around on them, and still remain pretty dangerous.

Posted by: Makko Mace
Strength:

Elites (wearing combat harnesses) are nearly equal to a Spartan (First Strike control room anyone?) The exact strength of Elites and Spartans is not stated, but they have both lifted hundreds of pounds on seperate occasions. (I would say flipping wart hogs, but somehow they can flip scorpions so...)

For Spartans it was stated in the Fall of Reach. Outwith Mjolnir, they can lift 3 times their own body weight. Mjolnir doubles the strength of a wearer. In total they would be able to lift 6 times their body weight of 179kg/396lbs. If you want to say that Elites are equal to Spartans, then you have their rough strength as well, in their armour. It is stated several times that Elites get speed and strength enhancements from thier armour. There is no way to know their true strength.

Flipping Scorpions and 'Hogs is gameplay. They weigh 66 tons and 3.25 tons, respectively. No Spartan or Elite would actually be able to do that, armour notwithstanding.

Posted by: Makko Mace
If an elite's judo kick to the face means instant death to a spartan, than what would a brutes do? *shudders

I think that is gameplay as well. If Spartans in Mjolnir can survive jumping out of a Pelican at high altitude then I am sure that getting kicked by an Elite will knock the wind out of them at worst.

[Edited on 01.19.2011 8:32 PM PST]

  • 01.19.2011 8:02 PM PDT

Good topic.

As for Brutes beating Elites in battles, thats a different story. Clearly, Brutes can kill Elites. In contests of raw strength, its so deeply beyond a doubt a Brutes game.

But in terms of large scale engagements, the Elites come out on top. The Brutes are smart, and use tactics, but are too easily angered and when so, have a tendancy to berserk and charge. Even at the Ark, while outnumbering the Elites 3 to 1 in ships, they managed to lose.

If you go by Bungie, the way they designed the A.I. in Reach and built the characters is that 1 Elite represents the same threat as 3 Brutes. The Brutes have higher compiled health, a better damage output. But the Elite just plays smarter, and this pairing is roughly equal. So 1 on 1, an Elite would overcome a Brute. Not by being stronger physically, but by being stronger mentally.

Just adding my $.02

  • 01.19.2011 8:06 PM PDT

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Well, Anton you make good points.

I used Halopedia for most of the info, it's irritating how the sources are all over the place. Do you mind If I incorporate some of your post? (I don't have an encyclopedia or Beastiarium)

  • 01.19.2011 8:14 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Makko Mace
Well, Anton you make good points.

I used Halopedia for most of the info, it's irritating how the sources are all over the place. Do you mind If I incorporate some of your post? (I don't have an encyclopedia or Beastiarium)

Go right ahead. The links I put up are to the Bestiarium itself anyway. 343 Industries finally uploaded the full thing to their website.

  • 01.19.2011 8:22 PM PDT

The facts are just too here and there it's stupid I tend to go with Elites being 8'6" as stated in halo 1.

  • 01.28.2011 5:56 PM PDT

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brutes in the first strike were most likely changed afterwards they were still going through character development so they very well could have been changed since then and brutes were dumb and agressive enough to bomb themselves into a nuclear winter also elites were thrown out because they were to difficult to control but brutes are dumb and would follow blindly

[Edited on 01.28.2011 6:10 PM PST]

  • 01.28.2011 6:09 PM PDT

I like turtles


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Makko Mace
Well, Anton you make good points.

I used Halopedia for most of the info, it's irritating how the sources are all over the place. Do you mind If I incorporate some of your post? (I don't have an encyclopedia or Beastiarium)

Go right ahead. The links I put up are to the Bestiarium itself anyway. 343 Industries finally uploaded the full thing to their website.

Very off topic, but I have noticed that this forum is rather small. I keep seeing the same names EVERYWHERE.

  • 01.28.2011 7:14 PM PDT

The cake is a lie!

I REJECT your reality and substitute my own!

Sir, finishing this fight.


Posted by: the n00b pwner
Brutes are strange because while they are obviously intelligent, they are too prone to violence to use the intelligence well. And the games don't show how strong they actually are.
So I'll just have a brute smack a spartan with it's elbow. (One spartan flying 100 yards away later) Well somebody needs to do some research.

  • 01.28.2011 7:29 PM PDT
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Agreed. What the Brutes lack in intelligence is made up for with bravery and physical power.

  • 01.28.2011 8:23 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

As always Game canon > Novels.

  • 01.29.2011 2:14 PM PDT

Where dose it say that armour harness give Elite's addtional strength? And That thing about Elites hieght is silly. You can just look at the two in game and even in halo 2 and 3 they don't look two feet shorter than Brutes. Bungie should of kept them at the oringally *'^" instead of Blancing them out for multiplaying, that would definatly give for some intresting Brute-Elite fighting.

  • 01.31.2011 12:22 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

Brutes are the harder enemy because they're stupid, which leads them to be unpredictable.

Read HeadHunters in Halo Evolutions.

  • 01.31.2011 12:26 PM PDT
Subject: Wrong About Brutes

Brute are physically superior, but Elites are more intelligent.

  • 01.31.2011 4:55 PM PDT
Subject: Wrong about Brutes
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totally agree. I always hoped the brutes would be portrayed that way in the video games :/

  • 01.31.2011 5:05 PM PDT

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