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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why did we need to deliver Cortana in 'Reach'
  • Subject: Why did we need to deliver Cortana in 'Reach'
Subject: Why did we need to deliver Cortana in 'Reach'

Every single event that occurred in the book Fall of Reach, is all respected and acknowledged by Halo Reach the video game, and by the official counterpart fiction, Dr. Halsey's journal.

All Bungie changed was the tail end of Fall of Reach, involving how soon the Pillar of Autumn actually left Reach after Master Chief and Linda's mission to destroy the still operational database of ONI's UNSC Circumference.

All they did was modify the tail end. Everything else, the battle of Sigma Octanus IV, Msater Chief and Cortana's obstacle course run, and much more.

But some are saying that they know what vital information the fragment of Cortana possessed? Is it listed somewhere in Halsey's Journal?

  • 01.24.2011 9:29 PM PDT

Mreh.

Cortana wanted a vacation.

  • 01.24.2011 9:33 PM PDT

'Lucky' doesn't really explain it, it's more or a non-explanation. Which leaves the unspoken question 'what's really going on?' the answer probably related to the Assembly's manipulation of research data during the Spartan program. It does tie the game and player reality together a bit, somewhat lame compared to the Marathon explanation though

And if Halsey had no idea what the game changer was, then she'd more likely have said 'we're out of options, but go check out this forerunner place in case you find anything useful.' the way she talked about canonical bullet etc seemed more like she was talking about a specific weapon that might work, ie. Cortana/MC

In the last data pad it says 'the path has been reversed' referring to reverse mapping of AI to human, dated 2552. I don't see how you can deny that. Further since the war ends in 2552, it's not like there will be chance to explore that in later games: thus its relevance must be to the existing games. A human AI hybrid is what 'combat evolved' really means. All the talk about evolution throughout the data pads and the rest of the games lead to that point.

  • 01.25.2011 8:01 AM PDT

But how can that possibly make sense? Cortana was already capable of working directly with the Chief, and had done so in that obstacle course exercise, when she met Master Chief for the first time.

How could the game changer, latchkey discovery be something that Cortana and Master Chief were already fully capable of? I understand the argument that, considering the war ended, this discovery had to have significance to already existing games, but what if it doesn't? What if this major discovery has to do with how Cortana would eventually come across what is expected to be the Shield World, or some other vitally important Planet, like maybe the primary planet of the Forerunners at the end of Halo 3?

  • 01.25.2011 11:33 AM PDT

Ever since the dawn of the war, the covenant talked about the "sacred rings". Halsey probably knew it was a ring of some sort, and assumed it was one of the rings the covenant were talking about. By getting to it and discovering its secrets before the covenant they could change the outcome of the war, whether it be by destroying it or discovering what is does...or both.

  • 01.25.2011 11:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: Traxus 04
And if Halsey had no idea what the game changer was, then she'd more likely have said 'we're out of options, but go check out this forerunner place in case you find anything useful.' the way she talked about canonical bullet etc seemed more like she was talking about a specific weapon that might work, ie. Cortana/MC

In the last data pad it says 'the path has been reversed' referring to reverse mapping of AI to human, dated 2552. I don't see how you can deny that. Further since the war ends in 2552, it's not like there will be chance to explore that in later games: thus its relevance must be to the existing games. A human AI hybrid is what 'combat evolved' really means. All the talk about evolution throughout the data pads and the rest of the games lead to that point.


The package is not about how to combine human with AI. Halsey's notebook confirms this. And the notebook was released with Halo:Reach, therefore your argument is nonsense.

  • 01.25.2011 1:53 PM PDT

why don't you post the part of the journal that says what the package is then?

  • 01.25.2011 1:57 PM PDT

Herpa derp, fanfic....here ya go.

Cortana and I have discussed this at length, and she concurs it is the only logical procedure. SPARTAN-117 and his team require her expertise for their mission, which I believe will be our last real opportunity at finding an end to the war. She will be invaluable to them in their mission to penetrate Covenant territory and deliver a decapitating blow to their hierarchy.

Cortana, however, is also the best-suited AI on Reach to analyze the symbols and operating systems in Professor Sorvad's site. The Solomonic solution that we arrived at independently is to DIVIDE her.

I'll copy most of her IEP translation routines to an independent module. Meanwhile, the incarnate Cortana will continue with John and Blue Team.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CGUnd3nw0&t=5m15s

Also, a link with the ****ing developers saying its Cortana. So much like the rest of your theory I've torn down, here's another nail in your retarded coffin.

  • 01.25.2011 2:12 PM PDT

after cortana's fight with the gravemind on the infected ship she aquired some of his knowledge which would have been vital to the ark and halo rings

  • 01.25.2011 2:12 PM PDT

Also known as Entropy91
Black Water Ops representative.
See you on the battlefield.

That kind of bugged me. I'm pretty sure the UNSC would have some kind of data transmission system so that all Halsey would have needed to do was transmit the AI fragment to the Autumn. You know, like the Internet?

This would have made the entire last level pointless.

  • 01.25.2011 2:13 PM PDT

Further, they mention her as being that A.I., by name, five times in that segment. And they play Cortana's theme, and point it out. So ya.

You really have no idea what your saying.

[Edited on 01.25.2011 2:15 PM PST]

  • 01.25.2011 2:14 PM PDT

i can only count to jagermeister.

Posted by: privet caboose
What I find hilarious is Bungie breaking their own canon. GAME canon for that matter.

Halo CE: First spoken line:
"We made a blind jump...." - Captain Keyes



Reach has told us otherwise, nice job there Bungie.
Ha! I agree. But- Bungie had no idea they were even going to make a sequel, much less an entire universe. So I think we should cut them a little slack. George Lucas had 20 years to write the Star Wars prequels and we all know how that turned out. Bungie did pretty good all things considered.

This is why I'm super excited to see what they have coming up next. Now that they know in advance that they will be creating a universe, they can really get into the details and make a really cool story.

  • 01.25.2011 2:15 PM PDT

A blind jump is still just that. A set of coordinates with absolutely no data about the other side. Its the same thing as picking a random coordinate which you have no information on.

So they read the info off a rock. It could have been something important. It could have been a sun they were studying. The arrived "blind."

  • 01.25.2011 2:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: Traxus 04
why don't you post the part of the journal that says what the package is then?


I don't know what the data is, but I'm 100% sure it's not about the MJOLNIR AI interface. Did you even read the journal?

kit_103 has already quoted it once in this thread, but for good measures I'll requote it:

Posted by: kit_103
We have successfully used OUR hardware and algorithms to scan and imprint neural networks from human brains to AI seeds. At much lower intensities, we imprint ephemeral low-order structure (ie, short-term memories) between two participant intellects.

This is NOT telepathy as Dr. Foster calls it. Rather it imparts the same neural network imprint as audio, scent, visual and similar stimulations, minus the sensory input part, of course.

The result is a direct human-to-AI neural linkage. (Field tests pending. Must get those done soon.)

This is the final Mark V upgrade we need...my final gift to the Spartans; a gift that will make them ferociously effective against the technology of the adversary - the last thing I can offer to help them survive.

Why then do I feel that by combining Spartan and AI...I lose both?

Is there any choice left?


That journal entry was dated March 24th, 2549 a full three years, five months and six days before your supposed joining. Not only that, but they used HUMAN tech do it, no Forerunner information was used.

  • 01.25.2011 2:25 PM PDT

i don't know why this forthnback person keeps responding, i'm not planning to converse with him any longer. he doesn't even seem to read the things he quotes (in this case, a copy of Cortana's analysis routines was sent to work on something in the Forerunner ruins. Halsey refers to this as 'knowledge... from an ancient civilization... and this AI is its custodian'. so the package is the knowledge, not Cortana)

let's also point out that Halsey thinks Cortana + Chief ( + Blue Team) is their best hope to defeat the Covenant, as they had planned a surprise attack behind enemy lines. This was before they knew anything about the Halos.

thq1, that journal entry doesn't tell us what the package is. it tells us that 3 years before the events of Reach, Halsey was working on linking AIs to Spartans neurologically, for communication purposes. the datapad that says complete mapping of AI onto human brain tissue has been completed - that's a different thing (much more advanced), and it came 3 years later. the crux of the matter is the game never explicitly tells you what Halsey found while investigating the 'knowledge'

i don't have Halo Reach though so i haven't read the whole journal

incidentally i just figured out what the Assembly meant when they said they should periodically 'submit to vivisection by our creators.' they were referring to how AIs could be divided into parts for special tasts, a la Cortana. i suppose the point was people could get more stuff done if they were able to split up the best AIs to work on different things

  • 01.25.2011 2:51 PM PDT

It's definitely not about the Mjolnir and AI interfacing together with eachother.

Also, a blind jump can just as easily mean, a blind jump based on coordinates arrived at through previously decrypted and analyzed data.

That can be what was found inside the Côte d'Azur Museum of Natural History by Blue Team, in addition to the data that was eventually decrypted from inside the lab underneath sword base.

It aided in finding the location of Halo.

  • 01.25.2011 3:09 PM PDT


Posted by: Traxus 04
You proved me wrong through the developers own words, and I'm a child who can't admit it so now I'll ignore you.


gg, casual. gg.

  • 01.25.2011 3:12 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: Traxus 04
Halsey refers to this as 'knowledge... from an ancient civilization... and this AI is its custodian'. so the package is the knowledge, not Cortana)


In a case like this, the package would be both Cortana and the information her fragment had learned. So, a package within a package.

Posted by: Traxus 04
thq1, that journal entry doesn't tell us what the package is.


Of course it doesn't. It was meant to prove that the Forerunner structure wasn't used.

However, the end of the game tells us. It was Halo. Or as Optimus pointed out...

Posted by: OpTiMuS NYC
It aided in finding the location of Halo.


Posted by: Traxus 04
the datapad that says complete mapping of AI onto human brain tissue has been completed


I've been thinking about that and I've been reading over that one data-pad. What if you're taking it too literally? They never directly say "Hey, we've been mapped to a human brain!" It's more of "Hey, we've been superimposed on one!"

Which could also mean the neural link, which would put the AI into the "hostilities" so to speak.

Not only that, but Cortana was split in two on August 5th. Chief and Cortana tested the neural link August 29th, a full day before the supposed "mapping".

I'm starting to get the feeling that the "mapping" and the neural linkage are the same. The structure had nothing to do with it, especially if tests were run a full day before without the Cortana fragment.

Posted by: Traxus 04
i don't have Halo Reach though so i haven't read the whole journal


It's an excellent read. Gives some insight to Halsey and what made her tick.

  • 01.25.2011 4:09 PM PDT

Beware the smiley face! =D


Posted by: Wazooty
I disagree, imo the story of the games could be improved considerably. The epic factor was missing from a lot of the battles. We hear about these giant 500 ship covenant fleets, then at the end of all thing, at the climax of the entire story, when the covenant are about to acheive what they've gone to war with humans for 25 years over happens ---! not one but TWO scarabs!

Youd think the covenant would sacrifice all to protect the prophet. Imagine if the moment we got near the citadel the remaining covenant fleet over the ark abandoned what they were doing and immediately splispace ported directly over truths citadel on the arks, and likewise the elite ships followed them. Then while you were fighting the two scarabs on the ground this space battle of epic proportions was taking place right overhead.


Not only would the limitations of the game engine itself prevent any high quality space battle of hundreds of ships, but usually ship battles seem to take place in space in the Halo universe.

  • 01.25.2011 4:33 PM PDT

What I'm basically saying is that
- Halsey was working on neurological and AI stuff.
- Halsey was investigating Forerunner artifacts that might help her work
- Halsey found something from the Forerunners that showed her how to move an AI into a human brain
- that information (which she needed Cortana, an AI, to help interpret, unsurprisingly) was the knowledge in the package that she delivered to Keyes/MC
- that allowed humanity to go to Halo and win the battle once they got there. It 'gave us' Halo
- this coincides exactly with the Assembly saying the path has been reversed and they can enter the hostilities

no point going if you're just going to get your asses kicked. plus they already had coordinates for Halo, so it seems a bit redundant to introduce a second set of coordinates (from a storytelling perspective). 'Hey dudes, remember that wierd set of coordinates we found on Sigma 5? i found some more weird coordinates - why don't you combine them and check out the location! it will probably win us the war! don't mind the Covenant armada following you!'

now

But now that map has, for the first time, been superimposed on one of our creators. The path has been reversed, and we are re-made as one!


I mean, these AIs were made by taking a human brain and transferring its state wholesale onto a computer system. To say 'reverse the path' sure sounds to me like taking an AI from a computer system and transferring it wholesale onto a 'brain.'

If this entry had been dated 2549, I would have agreed it was just standard linking between AIs and humans, so they can share information, but the datapad was dated 3 years later. Why would the all seeing Assembly not catch onto things for three years?

As for the testing of the neural link on 29th, the explanation would be that was just preparation for the mapping which was due to happen some point thereafter (then the Covenant attacked so they moved forward)

  • 01.25.2011 4:38 PM PDT

Beware the smiley face! =D


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: nightspark

Posted by: Wazooty
The gamechanger was halo. Are you guys seriously that dense that you cant make that connection?

Read The Fall of Reach and play CE. No one knew about Halo or what it did.


Watch through the cutscene again in Reach. Halsey didn't know what the info would lead to exactly, but was merely hoping that whatever it was would change the tide of the war. If she or Cortana knew from that data that it was Halo they would've answered Carter's question right then and there. Instead it was just a gamble to follow that lead wherever it led to. That's what was being implied in the scene. Ultimately whatever data Cortana recovered from the Sword Base artifact assisted in finding Halo in addition to the artifact from Sigma Octanus.

Clearly this weak plot device should've been explained better (more so because of the ridiculous "omg cortana is a forerunner ai" threads), but it's clear enough where Bungie was attempting to go with that.


Exactly.

You could argue the fragment of Cortana only had co-ordinates on it and whatnot that indicated something important, and so when rejoined with the original Cortana, Cortana makes the decision to jump to those co-ordinates - this really is a BLIND JUMP as they have no idea whats there.

So that part of Reach does make sense, but of course Halo book fanboys don't like to listen to what they don't agree with. It could've been explained better but it makes sense.

And if they retconned the Battle of Reach to last a month, surely the PoA would have time to land, pick up the Cortana fragment and leave?

  • 01.25.2011 4:40 PM PDT

there's other problems with that narrative though

like

- why can't they just transmit the coordinates over their comms/networks? why does Noble team have to walk the dog?

the only have decent arguments are
a) they weren't coordinates, but (vast) knowledge of how to use the Halo. but then they would have known what the Halo was...

or
b) the fragment of Cortana had to be returned so that Cortana would be whole again. but Halsey just says she 'copies' some routines (in the journal) from Cortana to assist with data analysis, so it's not clear why that would be necessary

whatever was in the package, it could hardly have been just a set of coordinates.

  • 01.25.2011 5:09 PM PDT

More barely literate conjecture from the troll.

That's all your nonsense ever is. Conjecture. Usually flat out contradicted by the games, novels, and lore, but hey. We don't expect that much from you.

They probably didn't broadcast it since, you know, the Covenant can tap our battlenet and they didn't want to broadcast the information to the enemy, along with Noble's triangulated location. Simple answer. Naturally, it eluded you.

[Edited on 01.25.2011 7:38 PM PST]

  • 01.25.2011 7:37 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.

Out of curiosity to those who have Halsey's journal. Refer to journal entry August 24th. Is it not possible that the new canon is implying that A) The object in question shown in the journal is indeed the very same artifact from Sigma Octanus complete with some sort of semi-recognized coordinates thus still giving it importance and B) The vital data from the from Sword Base's artifact (considering the canon presented in Reach supplemented by the extended universe) is simply a language key in which Cortana would be able to decipher the coordinates from the Sigma Octanus artifact?

  • 01.26.2011 1:40 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Shown a hologram of an "object" - or at least a piece of an object.

This is very frustrating.

Wasn't even told what branch or group within ONI this came from, much less its point of origin - which is imperative for my complete analysis.

Curiously, the object, embedded in a stone fragment, shares many of the iconic language/code forms we discovered at the xenoarcheological site under SWORD Base.

From this supplemental data (which I couldn't copy and had to replicate from memory), I've hypothesized that the language/code, and hence the object, derives from predecessors of the Covenant, or from an unknown, more ancient alien culture. Deciphering the message on the object however, eludes me for the moment. A more definitive analysis certainly requires the actual object and all relevant etiological data.

I only shared this with my undisclosed ONI counterparts because I knew it would get back to Ackerson and "inform" him that he possesses an authentic alien artifact...one that he would need me to decipher.

If so, I'll get everything he has.


There's the entry. I have no problem copying certain segments of the journal here to provide proof.

Posted by: StealthSlasher2
A) The object in question shown in the journal is indeed the very same artifact from Sigma Octanus complete with some sort of semi-recognized coordinates thus still giving it importance and B) The vital data from the from Sword Base's artifact (considering the canon presented in Reach supplemented by the extended universe) is simply a language key in which Cortana would be able to decipher the coordinates from the Sigma Octanus artifact?


...you nailed it. That's exactly what Cortana was doing. Brief bit that proves the point.

Cortana (parts of her anyway) continues to learn and decipher the alien protoculture language, code forms, and hopefully technology.

She picked up a language key, picked apart the data from the artifact at Sigma and found the star map.

  • 01.26.2011 2:25 PM PDT