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Subject: Does the PoA being on Reach break cannon?

Posted by: JHOX
Here's my advice to you son, its a life lesson you shan't forget.

Some people are like Slinkies. They aren't good for anything in particular, but it still makes you smile when you push them down the stairs


Posted by: Hovemond
Nope, the Pillar of Autumn's cannons were intact. Landing on Reach didn't break any.

lol

EDIT: Damn, double post, sorry

[Edited on 01.23.2011 8:24 AM PST]

  • 01.23.2011 8:22 AM PDT

Posted by: JHOX
Here's my advice to you son, its a life lesson you shan't forget.

Some people are like Slinkies. They aren't good for anything in particular, but it still makes you smile when you push them down the stairs


Posted by: Hovemond
Nope, the Pillar of Autumn's cannons were intact. Landing on Reach didn't break any.

lol

  • 01.23.2011 8:23 AM PDT

It's possible the UNSC lied about Cruisers not being rated for Atmosphere, similar to how they lied about the number of Marathon Cruisers stationed at Earth. I'm sure the UNSC would take any advantage they had over the Covenant. Also, the Phoenix Colony ships are about 3 times the mass of a Halcyon class Cruiser, and a capable of Atmosphere flight.

  • 01.23.2011 8:48 AM PDT

They shouldve just had chief be awake. Then basically rehash the ending of TFOR to happen on the surface of the planet instead of in space. Noble six meets up with chief and linda, take out the nav database. Then when they reboard the POA noble six has to take the mac gun as emile dies.


Happy times for all.

[Edited on 01.23.2011 10:00 AM PST]

  • 01.23.2011 9:59 AM PDT

Posted by: private caboose
Error: Pillar of Autumn on Reach.

Proof During the final level of Halo: Reach, the Pillar of Autumn is on the planet, and isn't in space, preparing for the Prophet mission. This COMPLETELY destroys much of Halo's canon. If the ship wasn't in space, than the Spartans of Red Team would have never jumped to the planet, meaning that the 4 spartans who died, would have still been alive. Which could have hanged the outcome of the battle. PLUS, the space op to destroy the Circumference's NAV data wouldn't have happened. So Chief, James, and Linda had no reason to NOT be part of Red team. So the chief wouldn't have been on the Autumn, so Halo: CE wouldn't have happened.

Why schedule a mission to capture a prophet, when there's a full scale invasion of Humanities second most important planet?

Sources: Halo: Reach, Fall of Reach
From private caboose's thread.


yes, it breaks pretty much the whole story of reach.

[Edited on 01.23.2011 11:49 AM PST]

  • 01.23.2011 11:48 AM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins

it modified canon, it didnt break it

  • 01.23.2011 12:46 PM PDT


Posted by: Go Homer Die
yes, it breaks pretty much the whole story of reach.


You do realize that the Pillar of Autumn landed on Reach After it picked up Blue Team and the Marines? If you noticed, Master Chief is on the Autumn during the end of Halo Reach when the Autumn takes off.

Reach added to the Canon, not break it.

  • 01.23.2011 12:50 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: The Seraphim
Posted by: Go Homer Die
yes, it breaks pretty much the whole story of reach.


You do realize that the Pillar of Autumn landed on Reach After it picked up Blue Team and the Marines? If you noticed, Master Chief is on the Autumn during the end of Halo Reach when the Autumn takes off.

Reach added to the Canon, not break it.


You don't honestly expect me to believe that in 31 minutes (0616 Hours, Chief, Linda, James leave the Autumn - 0647 Hours Cortana mops up a few Seraphs and activates the Shaw-Fujikawa engine) the Autumn chases down a Covenant ship, slingshots around a planet to get back to Reach (at this point Keyes actually contacts the Chief, saying he is on his way directly to pick him up).

Instead he gets a call from command telling him to land back on Reach, he picks up John, then lands on Reach, waits for Noble 6 to arrive, waits for Six to take out several waves of Covenant, picks up the fragment of Cortana from Six and leaves the planet and still makes it to the rendezvous point in time. All this in under 31 minutes.

Bull. Shyte.

  • 01.23.2011 1:14 PM PDT
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It bent canon to a degree.

If the Autumn had not been in the system at all during the Battle of Reach, that'd be broken.

  • 01.23.2011 1:40 PM PDT
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Guys.
Guys.
I have an idea.

What if...
What if there were two Pillar of Autumns?

  • 01.23.2011 1:43 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Bobvob
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Posted by: Hovemond
Guys.
Guys.
I have an idea.

What if...
What if there were two Pillar of Autumns?


Forerunner time crystal! Soft sci-fi wins again. Brilliant!

/thread.

  • 01.23.2011 1:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: FleetAdmiralBob

Posted by: Hovemond
Guys.
Guys.
I have an idea.

What if...
What if there were two Pillar of Autumns?


Forerunner time crystal! Soft sci-fi wins again. Brilliant!

/thread.

No, no, I just mean that there were 2 of them. They named them both Pillar of Autumn and nobody realized.
Also, there were two Spartan-IIs with the rank of Master Chief Petty Officer.

  • 01.23.2011 1:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: The Seraphim
Posted by: Go Homer Die
yes, it breaks pretty much the whole story of reach.


You do realize that the Pillar of Autumn landed on Reach After it picked up Blue Team and the Marines? If you noticed, Master Chief is on the Autumn during the end of Halo Reach when the Autumn takes off.

Reach added to the Canon, not break it.


You don't honestly expect me to believe that in 31 minutes (0616 Hours, Chief, Linda, James leave the Autumn - 0647 Hours Cortana mops up a few Seraphs and activates the Shaw-Fujikawa engine) the Autumn chases down a Covenant ship, slingshots around a planet to get back to Reach (at this point Keyes actually contacts the Chief, saying he is on his way directly to pick him up).

Instead he gets a call from command telling him to land back on Reach, he picks up John, then lands on Reach, waits for Noble 6 to arrive, waits for Six to take out several waves of Covenant, picks up the fragment of Cortana from Six and leaves the planet and still makes it to the rendezvous point in time. All this in under 31 minutes.

Bull. Shyte.


I sure can, considering there were dozens of Spartans in the area the Autumn landed on, so it was probably very heavily defended area by air and ground by the time Autumn was landing there.

Except I have no idea what you're talking about with rendezvous point, I'm sure the Autumn was done leaving the system after receiving the fragment.

[Edited on 01.23.2011 2:12 PM PST]

  • 01.23.2011 2:02 PM PDT


Posted by: N00b Xtrmnatr
Posted by: OrderedComa
The Autumn can be on Reach, there's time after picking up Chief from the space op for it to work. Because the last level of Reach is happening in the later afternoon of the 30th, and the concluding events of TFoR are in the early morning, so the only that would be changed if my guess is right is the Autumn jumping right to Halo after picking up Chief.

OK I'm back, sorry about that :p

The problem that I have with the PoA is not when it was on Reach. It's how it got to be on the planet in the first place. The Autumn was IN SPACE when it was called to the ship yards in Azod. UNSC frigates are the only starships that can hover in atmosphere. If the Autumn tried to land on Reach, it would be like the landing in Halo 1. And we all know how that went...


I don't see why there's a problem with it being in atmosphere, the Spirit of Fire, which is at least the same size, is seen in Halo Wars staying aloft in the atmosphere of the both the atmosphere of the outer "Flood World" and "Inner World" of the shield world. And the Autumn itself is seen flying off of Reach. It's simply too heavy to land and get back up into the air again without help.

The landing on Halo was only hard because systems were failing and they were running on a skeleton crew since almost everybody else had jumped ship by that point. And if it couldn't actually fly in atmosphere then I think it wouldn't have wound up so "straight" in its landing position, it would have wound up in a less natural position than what looked like an airplane landing.

  • 01.23.2011 3:06 PM PDT

Posted by: JHOX
Here's my advice to you son, its a life lesson you shan't forget.

Some people are like Slinkies. They aren't good for anything in particular, but it still makes you smile when you push them down the stairs


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: N00b Xtrmnatr
Posted by: OrderedComa
The Autumn can be on Reach, there's time after picking up Chief from the space op for it to work. Because the last level of Reach is happening in the later afternoon of the 30th, and the concluding events of TFoR are in the early morning, so the only that would be changed if my guess is right is the Autumn jumping right to Halo after picking up Chief.

OK I'm back, sorry about that :p

The problem that I have with the PoA is not when it was on Reach. It's how it got to be on the planet in the first place. The Autumn was IN SPACE when it was called to the ship yards in Azod. UNSC frigates are the only starships that can hover in atmosphere. If the Autumn tried to land on Reach, it would be like the landing in Halo 1. And we all know how that went...


I don't see why there's a problem with it being in atmosphere, the Spirit of Fire, which is at least the same size, is seen in Halo Wars staying aloft in the atmosphere of the both the atmosphere of the outer "Flood World" and "Inner World" of the shield world. And the Autumn itself is seen flying off of Reach. It's simply too heavy to land and get back up into the air again without help.

The landing on Halo was only hard because systems were failing and they were running on a skeleton crew since almost everybody else had jumped ship by that point. And if it couldn't actually fly in atmosphere then I think it wouldn't have wound up so "straight" in its landing position, it would have wound up in a less natural position than what looked like an airplane landing.

Well, you're right. But the SoF is a colony ship, not a cruiser warship. They may be the same size, but not the same mass. Plus, I'm not bashing Ensemble Studios or anything, but they could've screwed up on the cannon because of overseen mistakes when Bungie gave the green-light for the cannon in Halo Wars. Unfortunetly, there is the whole "Game > Book cannon" thing, which I think is a middle finger to all the fans and writers of the books.

  • 01.23.2011 3:30 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

Yep. Reach was so disappointing.

  • 01.23.2011 3:35 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Alf stewert
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Alf stewert
Posted by: N00b Xtrmnatr
When I was playing Halo: Reach, I noticed something. It's been said that during the battle of reach, the PoA was about to leave the system to the first halo ring, but was recalled to the ship-breaking yards in Azod. This is when you, as the player, deliver the fragment of Cortana to Keyes. But I think that it is impossible for the PoA to land on the surface of Reach. If I remember correctly, frigates are the only UNSC starships that are rated for atmosphere.

That means that there could be no way that the PoA, a halcyon class cruiser, landed on Reach at the end of the game. Of course, I could have false memory, or the Autumn somehow got on Reach by a special, unknown way. What do you guys think? Does the PoA being on reach break cannon?

heres a quote from the book "She can take a real beating" OH and in halo legends origins 2 you see halcyon ships on a planet Flying so there are ways for halycyon ships to go in athsmophere


Er... no, the only Halcyon-class ship seen in Origins is the Autumn when we breifly see it followed by the Seeker of Truth.
what are you blind? origins part 2 on the planet I can count a couple of Halcyon ships flying with the covenant 8:14 mins in. that or their Marathon-class Cruiser but thats in the same stakes as the Halcyon Cruisers


Ah, I see now. Yes, it's in that section that Cortana completely made up, the part where "humans and Covenant joined hands to fight the Flood".
that may be true and such we dotn know whats real or whats fake in origins though

  • 01.23.2011 3:41 PM PDT


Posted by: N00b Xtrmnatr

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: N00b Xtrmnatr
Posted by: OrderedComa
The Autumn can be on Reach, there's time after picking up Chief from the space op for it to work. Because the last level of Reach is happening in the later afternoon of the 30th, and the concluding events of TFoR are in the early morning, so the only that would be changed if my guess is right is the Autumn jumping right to Halo after picking up Chief.

OK I'm back, sorry about that :p

The problem that I have with the PoA is not when it was on Reach. It's how it got to be on the planet in the first place. The Autumn was IN SPACE when it was called to the ship yards in Azod. UNSC frigates are the only starships that can hover in atmosphere. If the Autumn tried to land on Reach, it would be like the landing in Halo 1. And we all know how that went...


I don't see why there's a problem with it being in atmosphere, the Spirit of Fire, which is at least the same size, is seen in Halo Wars staying aloft in the atmosphere of the both the atmosphere of the outer "Flood World" and "Inner World" of the shield world. And the Autumn itself is seen flying off of Reach. It's simply too heavy to land and get back up into the air again without help.

The landing on Halo was only hard because systems were failing and they were running on a skeleton crew since almost everybody else had jumped ship by that point. And if it couldn't actually fly in atmosphere then I think it wouldn't have wound up so "straight" in its landing position, it would have wound up in a less natural position than what looked like an airplane landing.

Well, you're right. But the SoF is a colony ship, not a cruiser warship. They may be the same size, but not the same mass. Plus, I'm not bashing Ensemble Studios or anything, but they could've screwed up on the cannon because of overseen mistakes when Bungie gave the green-light for the cannon in Halo Wars. Unfortunetly, there is the whole "Game > Book cannon" thing, which I think is a middle finger to all the fans and writers of the books.
there was no canon dicrepincies at all in halo wars everything fit, and if you say spartans with shields thats only for gameplay not story

  • 01.23.2011 3:52 PM PDT

Posted by: JHOX
Here's my advice to you son, its a life lesson you shan't forget.

Some people are like Slinkies. They aren't good for anything in particular, but it still makes you smile when you push them down the stairs


Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: N00b Xtrmnatr

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: N00b Xtrmnatr
Posted by: OrderedComa
The Autumn can be on Reach, there's time after picking up Chief from the space op for it to work. Because the last level of Reach is happening in the later afternoon of the 30th, and the concluding events of TFoR are in the early morning, so the only that would be changed if my guess is right is the Autumn jumping right to Halo after picking up Chief.

OK I'm back, sorry about that :p

The problem that I have with the PoA is not when it was on Reach. It's how it got to be on the planet in the first place. The Autumn was IN SPACE when it was called to the ship yards in Azod. UNSC frigates are the only starships that can hover in atmosphere. If the Autumn tried to land on Reach, it would be like the landing in Halo 1. And we all know how that went...


I don't see why there's a problem with it being in atmosphere, the Spirit of Fire, which is at least the same size, is seen in Halo Wars staying aloft in the atmosphere of the both the atmosphere of the outer "Flood World" and "Inner World" of the shield world. And the Autumn itself is seen flying off of Reach. It's simply too heavy to land and get back up into the air again without help.

The landing on Halo was only hard because systems were failing and they were running on a skeleton crew since almost everybody else had jumped ship by that point. And if it couldn't actually fly in atmosphere then I think it wouldn't have wound up so "straight" in its landing position, it would have wound up in a less natural position than what looked like an airplane landing.

Well, you're right. But the SoF is a colony ship, not a cruiser warship. They may be the same size, but not the same mass. Plus, I'm not bashing Ensemble Studios or anything, but they could've screwed up on the cannon because of overseen mistakes when Bungie gave the green-light for the cannon in Halo Wars. Unfortunetly, there is the whole "Game > Book cannon" thing, which I think is a middle finger to all the fans and writers of the books.
there was no canon dicrepincies at all in halo wars everything fit, and if you say spartans with shields thats only for gameplay not story

To be fair, neither of us could know if cannon was broken or not. We weren't there when Frankie and Ensemble were going over the cannon.

Back on topic now...

Directed to OrderedComa:

In Fall of Reach, at Sigma Octanus IV, The Iroquois, A UNSC destroyer, could BARELY stay up in orbit. What happened is the Iroquois crashed into a covenant stealth ship. The ship was said to be diminutive, which is another word for tiny or wee. Basically, Keyes plowed right through the ship with little damage. But when he tried to regain orbit, the ship began falling toward the planet. Keyes had to divert all power of the ship reactors to the engines, and use the emergengy thrusters.

"Lovell exploded the aft emergency thrusters and the Iroquois jumped. Lovell's eyes were locked on the repeater displays as he fought for every centimeter of maneuvering he could get. Sweat ran down his forehead and soaked his flight suit." "Orbit stabilizing-barely." Lovell said.

If a destroyer had that much trouble keeping itself from dropping like a fly to the planet, then how in the hell is the PoA, a cruiser, just sitting in Azod, perfectly fine, like nothing happen?

  • 01.23.2011 4:34 PM PDT

Sour0deez is the leader of the t-P-t
And Administrator of The Clan Union Group
this file is not linked to sour0deez due to technical difficulties this file is linked to MUGBEER19 also IMPORTANT here my name is sourodeez on xbox it is sour0deez

In the shipyard it looked prety bunked down. maybe it never left?

  • 01.23.2011 5:19 PM PDT

Yes, it causes time and events inconsistencies. The simple fact that Halcyons aren't rated for atmospheric flight (No, legends can't be considered canon, just look at spartan 1337 and tell me its canon, even then the "Cortana has rampancy" argument beats it), Halo: Reach was a spit in the face of the fans of the original story.

  • 01.23.2011 5:22 PM PDT

Posted by: DirectLonely
Yes, it causes time and events inconsistencies. The simple fact that Halcyons aren't rated for atmospheric flight (No, legends can't be considered canon, just look at spartan 1337 and tell me its canon, even then the "Cortana has rampancy" argument beats it), Halo: Reach was a spit in the face of the fans of the original story.

Legends is canon except for "Odd One Out" because it is... the odd one out.

Reach doesn't exactly break canon. It causes some discrepancies that require a new write of the books to fit with the new canon.

  • 01.23.2011 5:44 PM PDT

We haven't watched the same thing...

  • 01.23.2011 5:51 PM PDT


Posted by: N00b Xtrmnatr

Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: N00b Xtrmnatr

Posted by: OrderedComa

I don't see why there's a problem with it being in atmosphere, the Spirit of Fire, which is at least the same size, is seen in Halo Wars staying aloft in the atmosphere of the both the atmosphere of the outer "Flood World" and "Inner World" of the shield world. And the Autumn itself is seen flying off of Reach. It's simply too heavy to land and get back up into the air again without help.

The landing on Halo was only hard because systems were failing and they were running on a skeleton crew since almost everybody else had jumped ship by that point. And if it couldn't actually fly in atmosphere then I think it wouldn't have wound up so "straight" in its landing position, it would have wound up in a less natural position than what looked like an airplane landing.

Well, you're right. But the SoF is a colony ship, not a cruiser warship. They may be the same size, but not the same mass. Plus, I'm not bashing Ensemble Studios or anything, but they could've screwed up on the cannon because of overseen mistakes when Bungie gave the green-light for the cannon in Halo Wars. Unfortunetly, there is the whole "Game > Book cannon" thing, which I think is a middle finger to all the fans and writers of the books.
there was no canon dicrepincies at all in halo wars everything fit, and if you say spartans with shields thats only for gameplay not story

To be fair, neither of us could know if cannon was broken or not. We weren't there when Frankie and Ensemble were going over the cannon.

Back on topic now...

Directed to OrderedComa:

In Fall of Reach, at Sigma Octanus IV, The Iroquois, A UNSC destroyer, could BARELY stay up in orbit. What happened is the Iroquois crashed into a covenant stealth ship. The ship was said to be diminutive, which is another word for tiny or wee. Basically, Keyes plowed right through the ship with little damage. But when he tried to regain orbit, the ship began falling toward the planet. Keyes had to divert all power of the ship reactors to the engines, and use the emergengy thrusters.

"Lovell exploded the aft emergency thrusters and the Iroquois jumped. Lovell's eyes were locked on the repeater displays as he fought for every centimeter of maneuvering he could get. Sweat ran down his forehead and soaked his flight suit." "Orbit stabilizing-barely." Lovell said.

If a destroyer had that much trouble keeping itself from dropping like a fly to the planet, then how in the hell is the PoA, a cruiser, just sitting in Azod, perfectly fine, like nothing happen?


I would say that this would be an event where we defer to gameplay over what the books say. The gameplay shows ships in atmosphere that shouldn't be there, and the books say they should crash like rocks in a pond, I think this would be the case because Bungie has said, in regards to canon, that on small "discrepancies" between games and books, that the game/gameplay is the higher canon. The gameplay also shows lots of ships in atmosphere, I can't say what kinds they are, I've never really studied them, but they don't all look like just frigates.

I think the Games>Books makes sense, the writers can get things wrong, or take their creative license too far, and the games are the original source anyway. It's the same with Star Wars, the source made by the creators of the story has higher authority than someone who was given permission to write something falling within the larger mythos.

And if the Autumn were following the same case as what Nylund depicted for the Iroquois it should not have landed the way it did in CE.

  • 01.23.2011 6:01 PM PDT

Posted by: DirectLonely
We haven't watched the same thing...

Halo Legends is all canon except for "Odd One Out."

  • 01.23.2011 6:01 PM PDT

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