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This topic has moved here: Subject: Flood = AI
  • Subject: Flood = AI
Subject: Flood = AI

I posted this theory years ago when Halo 3 came out, but now there's a little bit more evidence for it. Note that the origins of the Flood and their exact biology etc. is largely unknown at this point.

What we do know about the Flood is that
- they consider themselves the next stage of evolution, on a universal scale
(see gravemind's dialogue in the Halo 3 terminals)
- once they infect a host (biological, sentient life), they control its mind
- they can communicate/coordinate telepathically
- the initial infection in our galaxy came from non-organic, inanimate material. a sort of white powder which had an effect on the behaviour of household pets (see Halo: Cryptum)

One new clue that we got towards the end of the Halo:Reach datapads was that somebody had worked out how to 'reverse the path' of mapping a human brain onto a computer network: by mapping an AI back onto a human brain.

The human brain is a 'neural network.' We can build neural networks with computer chips and programs, but the ones in our head are trillions of times more complicated, we could probably never build a computer that complicated. With technology we could only achieve a tiny fraction of the inter-connectivity present in our brains. This is scientific fact.

Therefore the 'Holy Grail' of computer/AI research, if you will, is using the human brain as a computing platform. The thing is, all human brains are in use by, like, people. And even if you could get some spare, working brains, we wouldn't know how to install a computer program onto them (yet).

But in Halo: Reach someone DID work out how to make such an installation. Which is cool and all, but instantly raises two questions:
- what happens to whatever individual was already using that brain?
- what's now to stop 'computer viruses' spreading from person to person?

And the answer to both: the Flood. Taking over someone's mind? Check. Spreading to more minds? Check.

The Flood are basically a computer virus that transferred to biologicals. Their origin from inanimate matter is even reminiscent of how viruses/trojans are planted as seemingly harmless code inside other packages, but wreak havoc once they get unwittingly executed.

This also ties up with one other new piece of information, from Cryptum: the Domain. The Domain was a sort of wireless universal data-warehouse that the Forerunner's accessed with their AIs and used to share knowledge - a form of telepathy, just like the Flood.

In this light, when you consider the Assembly, if their story is not going to lead anywhere (and I don't see why it should, the war is over after Halo 3, so I'm not expecting any sequels set among the UNSC planets), then it must mean something else. Perhaps the Assembly/datapads story is basically Bungie's whispered explanation of what the Flood is and where they came from.

I leave you with this exert from the Halo 3 terminals to ponder:


LF.Xx.3273.> They repurposed {~}
into a weapon to use against {~} -
they sought to create something
superior to themselves. Something
capable of making decisions more
swiftly, more capably than they {~}
what form did they choose? You need
look no further than your own
topology to {~}


MB.05-032.> {~} distributed network?
That would confirm the independent
evolution of {~} in this galaxy!


LF.Xx.3273.> That is, unfortunately,
not the {~} similar to us {~} but
where you are a single intelligence
inhabiting multiple [instances], we
are a compound {~} consisting of
[a thousand billion] coordinated
minds inhabiting as many bodies as
circumstance require.


MB.05-032.> But doesn't it seem odd
that {~} coalesce; perhaps even to
contract {~}


LF.Xx.3273.> {~} complexity {~}
spread {~} our appearance ushered in
the beginning of the third great
stage of evolution. The first {~}
condensation of particles was the
result of the inevitable action of
strong nuclear force and the
creation of stars {~} inevitable
action of gravity; so to the
self-replicating chemical processes
that dictate all disparate {~} In
time, we too shall affect change on
a universal scale.

  • 01.25.2011 10:05 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

The Flood were created by the Precursors and started out as harmless powder.

  • 01.25.2011 10:10 AM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: ajw34307
The Flood were created by the Precursors and started out as harmless powder.
What if the powder wasn't organic but was instead something along the lines of nanobots; able to fundamentally change the operation of a sentient's brain?

I'd say this idea is plausible if we look at it from how it was presented in Cryptum. I am, however, having trouble with why an A.I. based virus would need to mutate it's hosts as seen in Halo 3 (it seems to be that their DNA is changed to free the hosts on dependence from food/water/air/organs but could an A.I. actually do this?)

[Edited on 01.25.2011 10:18 AM PST]

  • 01.25.2011 10:18 AM PDT


Posted by: dibbs089
Posted by: ajw34307
The Flood were created by the Precursors and started out as harmless powder.
What if the powder wasn't organic but was instead something along the lines of nanobots; able to fundamentally change the operation of a sentient's brain?

I'd say this idea is plausible if we look at it from how it was presented in Cryptum. I am, however, having trouble with why an A.I. based virus would need to mutate it's hosts as seen in Halo 3 (it seems to be that their DNA is changed to free the hosts on dependence from food/water/air/organs but could an A.I. actually do this?)


They're the Precursors, they could turn Earth into a waffle using a wristwatch.

  • 01.25.2011 10:35 AM PDT

I'm not sure about the lack of need for food... that seems doubtful to me. That breaks fundamental laws of physics.

I think the Flood causes mutations in hosts because it needs a means of transmission to other organisms. Some of the mutations will be part of the mechanics of how that's done (big sucker that goes into peoples brain or whatever), some of them will just be unsightly side effects of messing with the host's biology.

  • 01.25.2011 10:56 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Traxus 04
The human brain is a 'neural network.' We can build neural networks with computer chips and programs, but the ones in our head are trillions of times more complicated, we could probably never build a computer that complicated. With technology we could only achieve a tiny fraction of the inter-connectivity present in our brains. This is scientific fact.

Therefore the 'Holy Grail' of computer/AI research, if you will, is using the human brain as a computing platform. The thing is, all human brains are in use by, like, people. And even if you could get some spare, working brains, we wouldn't know how to install a computer program onto them (yet).

As I understand it, the Human Brain is not be all, end all of computation. That lies with Quantum computing. Even using conventional silicon chips (Which could be fully replaced by Graphene wafers allowing for significantly faster processing capabilities than silicon), Moore's Law predicts that we will match the Human Brain within the next 2 decades at most.

Example

  • 01.25.2011 11:39 AM PDT

The problem is Moore's Law wont last forever. We've already seen clock speeds plateau over the last 5 years, and even if better alternatives to silicon chips are invented, the fundamental problems (quantum interference, uncertainty principle etc) of making dense circuitry remain.

And the human brain is not just a case of lots of calculations, it's a case of each neurone having thousands of connections to other neurones, and when they all cross-signal hundreds of times per second, well then the complexity of the overall state of the system is mind-boggling. Like you'd need a computer bigger than the universe to simulate it sort of thing.

Of course maybe quantum computing would be that Holy Grail too. Some people think the human brain is a quantum computer. But at least we know human brains actually work, whereas quantum computers are mostly just a fancy idea at this point.

As far as I understand it.

(i read a book on AI in the library the other day)

  • 01.25.2011 12:02 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
The Flood were created by the Precursors and started out as harmless powder.


speculation... (about the Precursors)

Very likely, but still speculation.

However, reading Evolutions (the story about Cortana and Gravemind) pretty much shows in good detail how the Gravemind(s) act as living, organic AI. Every little bit of information from each individual that has been taken over by the Flood will be added to a central collective "brain" and Graveminds are the organic hubs of those brains so to speak and can control the Flood trough it all.

Kind of how it works with the Geth in Mass Effect (2) I guess.

But yes: Flood are like organic AI.

  • 01.25.2011 12:55 PM PDT

The interesting part is that could they have 'evolved' from electronic AIs, something like the Assembly (who it seems are obsessed with evolution)

Maybe the Precursors were betrayed by their own AIs, who stopped caring about Precursor survival once they realized they themselves could become biological by starting the Flood

  • 01.25.2011 1:27 PM PDT

or based on your research of the terminals, maybe the prisoner released in cryptum (supposedly the gravemind) was infact all the precursors assended into one all knowing form. like a huge collection of all their memories placed into one being capiable of controling anything organic in the thirst for more knowlege

  • 01.25.2011 2:06 PM PDT

See, now this theory is possible. Even plausible, when you consider the Precursor having a hand in the Flood to an unknown degree. The Forerunner created Huragok, which are semi-organic computers.

I don't think this likely, but its certainly interesting.

  • 01.25.2011 2:23 PM PDT