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  • Subject: In my opinion halo reach was better than the books talking about reach
Subject: In my opinion halo reach was better than the books talking about reach

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2/15/12: Francisco Porras, I'll miss you. Rest in Peace.

Damn you beat me to it.
But yea, Games>Books.
Posted by: mojeda101
Bungie can do whatever they want with the Canon, it's their game.

Games>Books

  • 02.06.2011 12:24 PM PDT


Posted by: GPK Ethan
Damn you beat me to it.
But yea, Games>Books.
Posted by: mojeda101
Bungie can do whatever they want with the Canon, it's their game.

Games>Books



Nope. Bungie no longer owns Halo. 343 decides what is Canon, and so far, it looks like they like book more than the game.

  • 02.06.2011 12:32 PM PDT
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no. Halo reach's story made it look as if reach was some random planet, instead of the most important planet behind earth. It didn't even seem like a full on invasion, the whole time you were just fighting in skirmishes. Not to mention the fact that noble team's story was less than mediocre >.>

  • 02.06.2011 1:07 PM PDT
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How DARE you! Your evil, evil opinion is a threat to the fandom! I will destroy you!

No. Really. I'm inclined to agree. Reach messes better with the main trilogy (of which all expanded universe works should exist to supplement.)

Could've been heavier on the mythology gags, though. Actually defending a generator would disarm half the fandumb's discontinuity arguments.

  • 02.06.2011 1:12 PM PDT

The main reason I prefer the Universe Forum is because the Halo Reach Forum is filled with ignorant fanboys that will defend Bungie and ignore all the flaws (mostly in the story) of the game, believing the game to be perfect.

I prefer the books over the games, as there is more logic involved, the characters are more developed, and the story is intense, they portray the Covenant as real baddies and not just some mindless elite running towards you with an energy sword.

It makes sense that Reach fell in a single day. Reach wasn't prepared for such attack, and despite the heavy losses from the Covenant, in the end they succeeded over the humans. It was a tragic loss, and their next target was Earth.

In Halo: Reach, you are just defending what appears to be a farmer's colony with 5 idiots who only complicate things more (Kat driving, lol).

  • 02.06.2011 1:16 PM PDT


Posted by: Sparty Boy 117
no. Halo reach's story made it look as if reach was some random planet, instead of the most important planet behind earth. It didn't even seem like a full on invasion, the whole time you were just fighting in skirmishes. Not to mention the fact that noble team's story was less than mediocre >.>


Ok then, Earth is a random middle of nowhere too then, the only levels on Earth are in a backwoods African Jungle and all the buildings and tech except the UNSC fleet is twentieth century.
That's how things appear using your logic. One source of material is not enough to tell the proper way things are, the game stressed that Reach was significant just as much as any other media mentioning Reach. Actually it appeared almost exactly the same as it did in the books, the books describe quite a few tracts of open wilderness with a mention of a few military bases and nothing else, if anything the game added to the portrayal of Reach by depicting New Alexandria and the mention of being attacked all throughout the Viery Territory, which indicates outposts/settlements of some type.

  • 02.06.2011 1:37 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Sparty Boy 117
no. Halo reach's story made it look as if reach was some random planet, instead of the most important planet behind earth. It didn't even seem like a full on invasion, the whole time you were just fighting in skirmishes. Not to mention the fact that noble team's story was less than mediocre >.>


Ok then, Earth is a random middle of nowhere too then, the only levels on Earth are in a backwoods African Jungle and all the buildings and tech except the UNSC fleet is twentieth century.
That's how things appear using your logic. One source of material is not enough to tell the proper way things are, the game stressed that Reach was significant just as much as any other media mentioning Reach. Actually it appeared almost exactly the same as it did in the books, the books describe quite a few tracts of open wilderness with a mention of a few military bases and nothing else, if anything the game added to the portrayal of Reach by depicting New Alexandria and the mention of being attacked all throughout the Viery Territory, which indicates outposts/settlements of some type.


When we say Reach looked like a random colony, it's not just about the terrain. It's the lack of military presence. Everything that was shown were insanely small scale, nothing like the "fortress world" that we've heard about Reach.Sure, you could say that Halo 3 is the same, but even they had more impressive defenses, and in terms of ground war, that's in New Mombassa, not exactly a military stronghold. But Reach? The few military-owned facilities we saw had pathetic defenses, and it seemed that AIs are non-existent in the defense of their planet. New Alexandria had a sub-par depiction because it was far too "clean". Sure, there are rare instances where some destruction has occurred, but for the most part it doesn't look like the city has been attacked. Ever seen a town after-battle during World War II?

But most of all, it's the fact that the game is named, Halo: Reach, not Halo: Noble team, so we expect to see the battle of Reach, not this side story. If I told you the story of Ephialtes of Trachis, does that represent the entirety of the Battle of Thermopylae? It was an important fragment, sure, but that's not the only part of the battle, and so the same goes for Halo: Reach.

Oh, Coma? you didn't win the debate, I was simply laughing at your usage of preconceptions as proof. The Covenant, by logic, should curb stomb the UNSC in a head-to-head conflict, why you don't understand or refuse to accept that, I do not understand, especially since I've already trumped your arguments before on why it should be your way.


[Edited on 02.06.2011 2:06 PM PST]

  • 02.06.2011 2:02 PM PDT
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You make it sound like the Battle of Earth was portrayed any better. 15 Covenant ships are able to break through Earth's defenses, despite humans being long prepared, having hundreds of ships and 300 Orbital MAC guns only to await their arrival.

  • 02.06.2011 2:20 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: manwith
You make it sound like the Battle of Earth was portrayed any better. 15 Covenant ships are able to break through Earth's defenses, despite humans being long prepared, having hundreds of ships and 300 Orbital MAC guns only to await their arrival.


The Covenant arrived through a breach in the Lunar perimeter and smashed the fleet guarding it, you seem to forget that the Covenant had the Forerunner Dreadnaught as their flagship.

  • 02.06.2011 2:24 PM PDT

I'm agent Nahman Jayden, eff-bee-eye.


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
You make it sound like the Battle of Earth was portrayed any better. 15 Covenant ships are able to break through Earth's defenses, despite humans being long prepared, having hundreds of ships and 300 Orbital MAC guns only to await their arrival.


The Covenant arrived through a breach in the Lunar perimeter and smashed the fleet guarding it, you seem to forget that the Covenant had the Forerunner Dreadnaught as their flagship.
There wasn't a Dreadnaught at the begining of Halo 2...

  • 02.06.2011 2:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
You make it sound like the Battle of Earth was portrayed any better. 15 Covenant ships are able to break through Earth's defenses, despite humans being long prepared, having hundreds of ships and 300 Orbital MAC guns only to await their arrival.


The Covenant arrived through a breach in the Lunar perimeter and smashed the fleet guarding it, you seem to forget that the Covenant had the Forerunner Dreadnaught as their flagship.


The Forerunner Dreadnought didn't arrive until at the end of Halo 2, which takes place at least two weeks after Regret's first arrival upon Earth.

  • 02.06.2011 2:28 PM PDT


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
You make it sound like the Battle of Earth was portrayed any better. 15 Covenant ships are able to break through Earth's defenses, despite humans being long prepared, having hundreds of ships and 300 Orbital MAC guns only to await their arrival.


The Covenant arrived through a breach in the Lunar perimeter and smashed the fleet guarding it, you seem to forget that the Covenant had the Forerunner Dreadnaught as their flagship.


The Forerunner Dreadnought didn't arrive until at the end of Halo 2, which takes place at least two weeks after Regret's first arrival upon Earth.


In the beginning of Halo 2 we actually see a space battle with a bunch of ships and Super MACs. Also, Only one ship got through, Regret's ship, and it fled almost as soon as it had arrived. So yes, the space battle above Earth was portrayed better.

[Edited on 02.06.2011 2:33 PM PST]

  • 02.06.2011 2:31 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
You make it sound like the Battle of Earth was portrayed any better. 15 Covenant ships are able to break through Earth's defenses, despite humans being long prepared, having hundreds of ships and 300 Orbital MAC guns only to await their arrival.


The Covenant arrived through a breach in the Lunar perimeter and smashed the fleet guarding it, you seem to forget that the Covenant had the Forerunner Dreadnaught as their flagship.


The Forerunner Dreadnought didn't arrive until at the end of Halo 2, which takes place at least two weeks after Regret's first arrival upon Earth.


That's when the battle of Earth started, not when Regret arrived - that was merely a skirmish at New Mombasa.

  • 02.06.2011 2:32 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

I agree in a way. But Reach's battle could have been much better portraid. I'm still waiting for campaign DLC, because Noble Team MUST have done more than that during that month on Reach.

  • 02.06.2011 2:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: ajw34307
That's when the battle of Earth started, not when Regret arrived - that was merely a skirmish at New Mombasa.


I believe you're confusing Regret with Truth.

Regret was the one leading his small fleet of 15 ships (as stated by Cortana) we played in Halo 2. Truth was the one leading his forces in Halo 3 and ODST. They didn't arrive until after Regret made a slipspace jump in the city of New Mombasa.

There was a global fight going on, Blue Team involved before the Dreadnought even came near to Earth.

[Edited on 02.06.2011 3:44 PM PST]

  • 02.06.2011 2:45 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
You make it sound like the Battle of Earth was portrayed any better. 15 Covenant ships are able to break through Earth's defenses, despite humans being long prepared, having hundreds of ships and 300 Orbital MAC guns only to await their arrival.


The Covenant arrived through a breach in the Lunar perimeter and smashed the fleet guarding it, you seem to forget that the Covenant had the Forerunner Dreadnaught as their flagship.


The Forerunner Dreadnought didn't arrive until at the end of Halo 2, which takes place at least two weeks after Regret's first arrival upon Earth.

Regret did little to no damage; he fled. Some time later the dreadnought arrive, and that's when they broke through.

  • 02.06.2011 2:57 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
You make it sound like the Battle of Earth was portrayed any better. 15 Covenant ships are able to break through Earth's defenses, despite humans being long prepared, having hundreds of ships and 300 Orbital MAC guns only to await their arrival.


The Covenant arrived through a breach in the Lunar perimeter and smashed the fleet guarding it, you seem to forget that the Covenant had the Forerunner Dreadnaught as their flagship.


The Forerunner Dreadnought didn't arrive until at the end of Halo 2, which takes place at least two weeks after Regret's first arrival upon Earth.

Regret did little to no damage; he fled. Some time later the dreadnought arrive, and that's when they broke through.


Um, didn't they take out a few SMACs with boarding parties?

  • 02.06.2011 3:09 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: GrnDragn

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
You make it sound like the Battle of Earth was portrayed any better. 15 Covenant ships are able to break through Earth's defenses, despite humans being long prepared, having hundreds of ships and 300 Orbital MAC guns only to await their arrival.


The Covenant arrived through a breach in the Lunar perimeter and smashed the fleet guarding it, you seem to forget that the Covenant had the Forerunner Dreadnaught as their flagship.


The Forerunner Dreadnought didn't arrive until at the end of Halo 2, which takes place at least two weeks after Regret's first arrival upon Earth.

Regret did little to no damage; he fled. Some time later the dreadnought arrive, and that's when they broke through.


Um, didn't they take out a few SMACs with boarding parties?

2, I think.

Oh gee.

  • 02.06.2011 3:10 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy
2, I think.

Oh gee.


Yeah, just saying he did some damage, but not that much.

  • 02.06.2011 3:13 PM PDT

Posted By:
When we say Reach looked like a random colony, it's not just about the terrain. It's the lack of military presence. Everything that was shown were insanely small scale, nothing like the "fortress world" that we've heard about Reach.Sure, you could say that Halo 3 is the same, but even they had more impressive defenses, and in terms of ground war, that's in New Mombassa, not exactly a military stronghold. But Reach? The few military-owned facilities we saw had pathetic defenses, and it seemed that AIs are non-existent in the defense of their planet. New Alexandria had a sub-par depiction because it was far too "clean". Sure, there are rare instances where some destruction has occurred, but for the most part it doesn't look like the city has been attacked. Ever seen a town after-battle during World War II?


I was not talking about the terrain either, not exactly. You're kidding right? There is no difference between the defenses they show in Reach and Halo 3, they are completely equal.

Sword Base already under attack when we saw it and already nearly pounded to hell, any defenses the base itself would have had would have been pretty much neutralized already. And from what little we saw of the Sabre Launch Facility, it had excellent defense, for what little we saw, did you miss the gun shooting down Seraphs? There was just as much of a military presence on Reach as there was depicted at Earth in the trilogy. As for AIs, are you forgetting the presence of one Autie Dot? And the book never made mention of AIs in defense of the planet, the only planet I know of that mentions AIs serving in the capacity you seem to be implying was Harvest. I have seen pictures of WWII's destruction, but the wars are totally different, and besides which the Covenant weren't really bombing or destroying the buildings until Kat's death scene.

But most of all, it's the fact that the game is named, Halo: Reach, not Halo: Noble team, so we expect to see the battle of Reach, not this side story. If I told you the story of Ephialtes of Trachis, does that represent the entirety of the Battle of Thermopylae? It was an important fragment, sure, but that's not the only part of the battle, and so the same goes for Halo: Reach.

This was about the Battle of Reach, it's just Noble Team's part in the story, we have the SII's part of the story told to us in the tail end of TFoR and the beginning of First Strike, and there will probably be more media now dealing with the Battle of Reach because of Halo: Reach's expanded length of the battle.

Oh, Coma? you didn't win the debate, I was simply laughing at your usage of preconceptions as proof. The Covenant, by logic, should curb stomb the UNSC in a head-to-head conflict, why you don't understand or refuse to accept that, I do not understand, especially since I've already trumped your arguments before on why it should be your way.

I was kidding because you didn't make any arguments against what I said...if you didn't get it or didn't think it was funny then never mind.

  • 02.06.2011 3:16 PM PDT

God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof.” – Psalms 46:1-3

Wow, just wow, I respect your opinion but a game actually following the book fall of Reach would have blown Halo: reach away.

  • 02.06.2011 3:20 PM PDT
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“To say more would spoil be it’s overall its a game that needs to be played.” - Aristotle

Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.

I could have actually said this better myself, but the sentiment rings true no matter how you put it.

I'm an indie game dev. That might make me seem like a nobody, if you know anything about indie games, but I like to think I'm an exception to the rule. My series isn't even in development yet and it has over 120 pages (Calibri / SS / 11-point) of pure backstory, not including the prequel novellas that my team and I are working on. In short, I've got a fair bit of experience in creating and writing for a universe, if not so much actually implementing it.

With that experience, I can tell you one thing for certain: it is beyond easy to never need to retcon anything. It is, in fact, the first thing that we took protection against in the development of the tale. We have five concrete dates in our universe tagged for potential game development, and if we made a game for each one of those in order, at this very moment, nothing would conflict with each other. We've made certain of it. In game development, if you either have to or choose to retcon material, someone is not doing their job correctly.

Just because it made it "cooler" doesn't mean it's acceptable, because it's not, and it never will be. Bungie's case is slightly different, because The Fall of Reach and the other novels were mandated by Microsoft, but it's not that different; Bungie largely accepted and ran with Microsoft's canon, and that means that they should have played ball to the bitter end, not keep going until that bitter end and then suddenly decide to drop it and say, "woops, our bad, we don't care anymore."

Retcons are a sin, no good developer should ever have to use them. I might go so far as to say any developer that does isn't fit to have AAA titles.

  • 02.06.2011 3:59 PM PDT
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I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.


Posted by: GrnDragn

Posted by: GPK Ethan
Damn you beat me to it.
But yea, Games>Books.
Posted by: mojeda101
Bungie can do whatever they want with the Canon, it's their game.

Games>Books



With all due respect, Bungie just made their last canon decisions, so it doesn't matter what 343 says right now. Bungie decides what's canon.

Nope. Bungie no longer owns Halo. 343 decides what is Canon, and so far, it looks like they like book more than the game.

  • 02.06.2011 4:14 PM PDT


Posted by: mojeda101
Bungie can do whatever they want with the Canon, it's their game.

Games>Books

actually its not their game

  • 02.06.2011 4:23 PM PDT


Posted by: Magna117
I agree with OP. Halo Reach was epic and it was better than the Fall of Reach book. I mean, if it's the main UNSC base of operations it's not very convincing that it would fall in one day! A month maybe, but not a day. Also I think that haters of the story need to look at it logically.
If Bungie make a game, some author writes a prequel based on their game, and then Bungie decide nine years later to make a game based around this crucial point in the Halo saga it is not surprising that they didn't want to be restricted to what one guy had said happened.
In my opinion Bungie did a spectacular job with Reach and I think it far surpassed what Eric Nylund achieved.
I'm not saying Eric was poor or anything, far from it, but I am saying that Bungie should have the final say on canon.

why?! the books are what makes the canon amazing! TFoR came out before CE. Its not their game either it's Microsofts game.

  • 02.06.2011 5:33 PM PDT