Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: In my opinion halo reach was better than the books talking about reach
  • Subject: In my opinion halo reach was better than the books talking about reach
Subject: In my opinion halo reach was better than the books talking about reach

Posted By:OfTheBloodguard
And as for the whole "game is better than book" debate, personally, I think Halo: Reach is beyond flawed compared to the book. Nobody was a dumbass in TFoR, and a superior alien absolutely threw us to the gutter.


I don't hold either one in higher regard, they're different, and I don't think they can really be compared, but with Halo: Reach extending the length of the battle we can now have many more stories set during Reach's fall than we ever could with TFoR, and that is better.

In Halo: Reach, it's as if everyone in the entire game ingested a load of stupid pills. Jorge killed himself, even though a SPARTAN-II is frigging expensive and a damn sight better than Noble Six, Six should've stayed behind.

Than any other SII who stayed behind to detonate a bomb is stupid too. That doesn't make sense to the game though, you don't kill the player character early in the game like unless it's something like CoD where you play as different people each level. And regardless of Jorge's expensiveness, Six is more valuable to the war, he is a much better fighter on the same level as Master Chief.

Kat's just a retard. She did so man dumb things, I can't believe Colonel Ackerson let her in Beta Company.

I don't see anything worth complaining about in Kat, unless of course you are confusing the gameplay's AI with the canon competence of the character, and if that's the case you don't have a leg to stand on. How a character acts while the AI is controlling them is in no way indicative of their competance. Like for instance, the Arbiter, he often acts like a moron in H3, but we all know he is the Covenant's equivalent to Master Chief.

The CO of the Savannah just sat there and asked to be shot down.

The Savannah was not just "sitting there asking to be shot" it was engaging the Ardent Prayer, or whatever the Corvette's name was.

The Falcon pilots are all -blam!-. They just drop you in a combat zone, without actually shooting at anyone. Why?

That's what every single pilot in Halo has ever done, the ship that drops you off almost never stays to fight, the Pelicans did that all the time in the trilogy, why start complaining about it now?

Blowing up the Long Night of Solace with s slipspace drive, because REACH, THE FRIGGIN MILITARY STRONGHOLD OF HUMANITY, didn't have any nukes to spare. WHAT?

This is your only point I remotely agree with, but that does not make the whole plot stupid, it is only one weak point in the big scheme of the story.

The Pillar of Autumn on the ground. That didn't make much sense, and what else didn't make sense: Where were the shipyard's defenses? They seriously didn't have squat to help them out, apart from that mass driver.

I don't see anything that doesn't make sense about it at all, obviously the Autumn can land, nothing wrong with that, it landed on Alpha Halo. We only saw a small section of the shipyard, judging the whole over one area is stupid.

Speaking of the mass driver, why did the Phantoms just sit in front of the mass driver, practically begging to be shot? And why did the cruiser appear over the mass driver, showing off its weak point? What?

They were not just sitting there, they moving around trying to make themselves a harder target to hi. And as for the cruiser, that was not a weak point, that was where the glassing beam is emitted from, and they naturally have to drop their shields in order to glass the area, you take advantage of that fact and blow it up. And it would seem to me that these smaller ships, of which I believe was the one at the shipyard, don't have shields, or seem to have very weak ones.

And Halsey. Why was she so angry? She was portrayed as a stern, but caring woman in the book. Granted she abducted and drugged up a whole bunch of kinds, but she made sure to treat them nice and with respect. Why did she suddenly lose her temper at everyone and not act cool like she usually does?

Halsey acted just like she does in the books, stern when crossed, calm, cool, and collected. She very much had a calm "don't cross me" attitude. And if you still think she was irritable, you try acting calm with the Covenant banging on your door and having important research to defend.

There's more, but that's probably enough for now.

Bring it on...we shall be waiting for you >:)

  • 02.07.2011 10:15 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.


Bungie did say that reach would define the Halo canon.

  • 02.07.2011 10:21 AM PDT

Posted By:hotshot revan II
See during Halo 3 the entire fleet had already been wiped out.There was no military anymore except a "handful" of ships and the last surviving guerilla forces.

In Reach the UNSC wasn't destroyed yet,they still had their fleet and an entire military planet.But Bungie failed to portray it.

Earth=cultural and political centre of humanity
Reach=Military centre of humanity

Hell even the comics portray Reach far better:

http://www.halopedian.com/images/0/01/BootCamp_-_Reach.png


I was talking about what was going on on the ground, not in orbit. I know the home fleet had already been routed.

The main characters of Reach are not elite pilots, they're Spartans, Spartans are not meant for ship-to-ship space combat, their strength lies entirely on foot. Yes, Bungie could have done more when you're taking out the Solace, but they still did plenty with that scene.

A comic is still vastly different than a video game, you do a great deal more with visuals in a comic, they take less time to make, and are not really that costly.

-Pounded to hell?By a few of covie squads who failed to enter the base till the corvette came in??

Even then,why did the UNSC didn't send any bombers to bombard the corvette?I thought Reach had plenty of airbases and a large Navy.

-Pfff,the sabre facilitys defenses are laughable.But maybe that's just because it's a secret base and would have less defenses???

-Play Halo 2 and look at the large Navy in orbit,did we saw anything like that on Reach???Hell no,look at the end of Halo 2,large spacebattle going on.This wasn't present in Reach as well.

Halo 2 did a far better job,even if Earth was only important in the first few levels.


By the Corvette, did you even play the level? And the Corvette is what brought the Covies there to begin with.

I didn't see any big navy when I looked out the windows, I saw one or maybe two ships and a couple ODPs, but it has been a while since I played H2 so I should probably go back and check, that's what I remember though.

All Halo Reach did is portraying the battle horribly.
The covenant and UNSC are incompetent morons in this game,i can't believe this.

We know it's Nobles story but Bungie was all the time talking about,"epic battle","full invasion," "remember Reach",...never saw anything this in the game.

And how the -blam!- did it took weeks for the covies to break through Reach defenses.
One Covenant cruiser=3 UNSC frigates

The battle:
314 or 750 ships vs 150 ships and 20 ODP's

Look at the odds,how the hell did the UNSC managed to survive it so long.


Haha, ok that's funny, I can't help but laugh at all the comments saying "both sides are morons", they're exactly the same as in the other games.

I felt all those things playing through the game, maybe not as much as in the trilogy, but it still had plenty of epic battles for me, and I certainly felt the hopelessness of it during the game.

Because Noble Team was not involved in the space battle, we don't know when the Covenant beat the UNSC fleet, some ships did break through though, as evidenced by the Corvettes in New Alexandria.

Weren't there 25 ODPs? Well regardless of how many ODPs there were you seem to forget that they could rip through an ENTIRE Covenant ship in one strike, the with the number of UNSC ships there is enough to last much longer than 2 -blam!- hours, regardless of the 1:3 and whether it's what Bungie holds to or not. And the number of the Covenant ships at Reach hasn't changed at all, it's still 314+ or however many it was, the 750 thing was not how it was supposed to be, it was an editting mistake taking Hood's line about the fleet at Reach being 5 times bigger than the one at Earth in H2.

I think they could easily last a while, especially since I don't take the 1:3 ratio as total and complete fact, it is not utter law. The UNSC can and has won with much less ships than the Covenant before.

  • 02.07.2011 12:25 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.


Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By:OfTheBloodguard
And as for the whole "game is better than book" debate, personally, I think Halo: Reach is beyond flawed compared to the book. Nobody was a dumbass in TFoR, and a superior alien absolutely threw us to the gutter.


I don't hold either one in higher regard, they're different, and I don't think they can really be compared, but with Halo: Reach extending the length of the battle we can now have many more stories set during Reach's fall than we ever could with TFoR, and that is better.

In Halo: Reach, it's as if everyone in the entire game ingested a load of stupid pills. Jorge killed himself, even though a SPARTAN-II is frigging expensive and a damn sight better than Noble Six, Six should've stayed behind.

Than any other SII who stayed behind to detonate a bomb is stupid too. That doesn't make sense to the game though, you don't kill the player character early in the game like unless it's something like CoD where you play as different people each level. And regardless of Jorge's expensiveness, Six is more valuable to the war, he is a much better fighter on the same level as Master Chief.

Kat's just a retard. She did so man dumb things, I can't believe Colonel Ackerson let her in Beta Company.

I don't see anything worth complaining about in Kat, unless of course you are confusing the gameplay's AI with the canon competence of the character, and if that's the case you don't have a leg to stand on. How a character acts while the AI is controlling them is in no way indicative of their competance. Like for instance, the Arbiter, he often acts like a moron in H3, but we all know he is the Covenant's equivalent to Master Chief.

The CO of the Savannah just sat there and asked to be shot down.

The Savannah was not just "sitting there asking to be shot" it was engaging the Ardent Prayer, or whatever the Corvette's name was.

The Falcon pilots are all -blam!-. They just drop you in a combat zone, without actually shooting at anyone. Why?

That's what every single pilot in Halo has ever done, the ship that drops you off almost never stays to fight, the Pelicans did that all the time in the trilogy, why start complaining about it now?

Blowing up the Long Night of Solace with s slipspace drive, because REACH, THE FRIGGIN MILITARY STRONGHOLD OF HUMANITY, didn't have any nukes to spare. WHAT?

This is your only point I remotely agree with, but that does not make the whole plot stupid, it is only one weak point in the big scheme of the story.

The Pillar of Autumn on the ground. That didn't make much sense, and what else didn't make sense: Where were the shipyard's defenses? They seriously didn't have squat to help them out, apart from that mass driver.

I don't see anything that doesn't make sense about it at all, obviously the Autumn can land, nothing wrong with that, it landed on Alpha Halo. We only saw a small section of the shipyard, judging the whole over one area is stupid.

Speaking of the mass driver, why did the Phantoms just sit in front of the mass driver, practically begging to be shot? And why did the cruiser appear over the mass driver, showing off its weak point? What?

They were not just sitting there, they moving around trying to make themselves a harder target to hi. And as for the cruiser, that was not a weak point, that was where the glassing beam is emitted from, and they naturally have to drop their shields in order to glass the area, you take advantage of that fact and blow it up. And it would seem to me that these smaller ships, of which I believe was the one at the shipyard, don't have shields, or seem to have very weak ones.

And Halsey. Why was she so angry? She was portrayed as a stern, but caring woman in the book. Granted she abducted and drugged up a whole bunch of kinds, but she made sure to treat them nice and with respect. Why did she suddenly lose her temper at everyone and not act cool like she usually does?

Halsey acted just like she does in the books, stern when crossed, calm, cool, and collected. She very much had a calm "don't cross me" attitude. And if you still think she was irritable, you try acting calm with the Covenant banging on your door and having important research to defend.

There's more, but that's probably enough for now.

Bring it on...we shall be waiting for you >:)


I'm on your side.

  • 02.07.2011 2:24 PM PDT


Posted by: Caaaarrrl

Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By:OfTheBloodguard
And as for the whole "game is better than book" debate, personally, I think Halo: Reach is beyond flawed compared to the book. Nobody was a dumbass in TFoR, and a superior alien absolutely threw us to the gutter.


I don't hold either one in higher regard, they're different, and I don't think they can really be compared, but with Halo: Reach extending the length of the battle we can now have many more stories set during Reach's fall than we ever could with TFoR, and that is better.

In Halo: Reach, it's as if everyone in the entire game ingested a load of stupid pills. Jorge killed himself, even though a SPARTAN-II is frigging expensive and a damn sight better than Noble Six, Six should've stayed behind.

Than any other SII who stayed behind to detonate a bomb is stupid too. That doesn't make sense to the game though, you don't kill the player character early in the game like unless it's something like CoD where you play as different people each level. And regardless of Jorge's expensiveness, Six is more valuable to the war, he is a much better fighter on the same level as Master Chief.

Kat's just a retard. She did so man dumb things, I can't believe Colonel Ackerson let her in Beta Company.

I don't see anything worth complaining about in Kat, unless of course you are confusing the gameplay's AI with the canon competence of the character, and if that's the case you don't have a leg to stand on. How a character acts while the AI is controlling them is in no way indicative of their competance. Like for instance, the Arbiter, he often acts like a moron in H3, but we all know he is the Covenant's equivalent to Master Chief.

The CO of the Savannah just sat there and asked to be shot down.

The Savannah was not just "sitting there asking to be shot" it was engaging the Ardent Prayer, or whatever the Corvette's name was.

The Falcon pilots are all -blam!-. They just drop you in a combat zone, without actually shooting at anyone. Why?

That's what every single pilot in Halo has ever done, the ship that drops you off almost never stays to fight, the Pelicans did that all the time in the trilogy, why start complaining about it now?

Blowing up the Long Night of Solace with s slipspace drive, because REACH, THE FRIGGIN MILITARY STRONGHOLD OF HUMANITY, didn't have any nukes to spare. WHAT?

This is your only point I remotely agree with, but that does not make the whole plot stupid, it is only one weak point in the big scheme of the story.

The Pillar of Autumn on the ground. That didn't make much sense, and what else didn't make sense: Where were the shipyard's defenses? They seriously didn't have squat to help them out, apart from that mass driver.

I don't see anything that doesn't make sense about it at all, obviously the Autumn can land, nothing wrong with that, it landed on Alpha Halo. We only saw a small section of the shipyard, judging the whole over one area is stupid.

Speaking of the mass driver, why did the Phantoms just sit in front of the mass driver, practically begging to be shot? And why did the cruiser appear over the mass driver, showing off its weak point? What?

They were not just sitting there, they moving around trying to make themselves a harder target to hi. And as for the cruiser, that was not a weak point, that was where the glassing beam is emitted from, and they naturally have to drop their shields in order to glass the area, you take advantage of that fact and blow it up. And it would seem to me that these smaller ships, of which I believe was the one at the shipyard, don't have shields, or seem to have very weak ones.

And Halsey. Why was she so angry? She was portrayed as a stern, but caring woman in the book. Granted she abducted and drugged up a whole bunch of kinds, but she made sure to treat them nice and with respect. Why did she suddenly lose her temper at everyone and not act cool like she usually does?

Halsey acted just like she does in the books, stern when crossed, calm, cool, and collected. She very much had a calm "don't cross me" attitude. And if you still think she was irritable, you try acting calm with the Covenant banging on your door and having important research to defend.

There's more, but that's probably enough for now.

Bring it on...we shall be waiting for you >:)


I'm on your side.


Says the guy who knows nothing of Halo's Canon, lol.

  • 02.07.2011 2:33 PM PDT

Posted By:Caaaarrrl
I'm on your side.


Did I send any flak your way? Sorry if I did and volleyed my logic shells too hard. If that's not the case, awesome. The "Reach didn't mess things up" side could use a few more people arguing for it.

  • 02.07.2011 2:34 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.


Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By:Caaaarrrl
I'm on your side.


Did I send any flak your way? Sorry if I did and volleyed my logic shells too hard. If that's not the case, awesome. The "Reach didn't mess things up" side could use a few more people arguing for it.


What logic shells? I did not say Reach didn't mess things up, but it did give a more realistic time frame for the UNSC's defeat.

  • 02.07.2011 2:39 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Absolutely not. Reach falling in one day was immensely better.

When people thought of Reach, they had hope. This was a massive planet, literally covered in UNSC ships ready to fight the Covenant to their dying breath. It was so powerful, so heavily defended, people thought it literally could not fall.

The Titanic is often used as an analogy for the fall of Reach. You have this massive ship, at the time the most glorious on Earth, and it sank on its first voyage. The ship was regarded as unsinkable, so when it sank, absolutely everyone was shocked. The same goes for Reach, such a powerhouse of UNSC military, people thought it was impossible for it to fall. Even when Titanic struck an iceberg, people remained in denial. Even when the Covenant arrived at Reach, no one thought they would win.

But they did. In. One. Day. One day to destroy an entire planet. Could you imagine Earth being attacked, and being obliterated in one day? You can't. Its inconceivable to imagine an entire planet being decimated in 24 hours. It would certainly make me lose hope.

Everything that woke you up in the morning, everything that gave you hope, everything that made you tuck your children in at night and tell them "It's going to be okay", everything that enabled a mother to comfort her child and tell her daddy would be home one day, everything that gave a sick elderly woman a reason to wake up in the morning, gone. In one. Day.

  • 02.07.2011 2:44 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.


Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Absolutely not. Reach falling in one day was immensely better.

When people thought of Reach, they had hope. This was a massive planet, literally covered in UNSC ships ready to fight the Covenant to their dying breath. It was so powerful, so heavily defended, people thought it literally could not fall.

The Titanic is often used as an analogy for the fall of Reach. You have this massive ship, at the time the most glorious on Earth, and it sank on its first voyage. The ship was regarded as unsinkable, so when it sank, absolutely everyone was shocked. The same goes for Reach, such a powerhouse of UNSC military, people thought it was impossible for it to fall. Even when Titanic struck an iceberg, people remained in denial. Even when the Covenant arrived at Reach, no one thought they would win.

But they did. In. One. Day. One day to destroy an entire planet. Could you imagine Earth being attacked, and being obliterated in one day? You can't. Its inconceivable to imagine an entire planet being decimated in 24 hours. It would certainly make me lose hope.

Everything that woke you up in the morning, everything that gave you hope, everything that made you tuck your children in at night and tell them "It's going to be okay", everything that enabled a mother to comfort her child and tell her daddy would be home one day, everything that gave a sick elderly woman a reason to wake up in the morning, gone. In one. Day.


Dude, did you just copy a post?

  • 02.07.2011 2:47 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Absolutely not. Reach falling in one day was immensely better.

When people thought of Reach, they had hope. This was a massive planet, literally covered in UNSC ships ready to fight the Covenant to their dying breath. It was so powerful, so heavily defended, people thought it literally could not fall.

The Titanic is often used as an analogy for the fall of Reach. You have this massive ship, at the time the most glorious on Earth, and it sank on its first voyage. The ship was regarded as unsinkable, so when it sank, absolutely everyone was shocked. The same goes for Reach, such a powerhouse of UNSC military, people thought it was impossible for it to fall. Even when Titanic struck an iceberg, people remained in denial. Even when the Covenant arrived at Reach, no one thought they would win.

But they did. In. One. Day. One day to destroy an entire planet. Could you imagine Earth being attacked, and being obliterated in one day? You can't. Its inconceivable to imagine an entire planet being decimated in 24 hours. It would certainly make me lose hope.

Everything that woke you up in the morning, everything that gave you hope, everything that made you tuck your children in at night and tell them "It's going to be okay", everything that enabled a mother to comfort her child and tell her daddy would be home one day, everything that gave a sick elderly woman a reason to wake up in the morning, gone. In one. Day.


An excellent contrasting analogy there. I too feel that it's better as a day long battle, it just gets boring and repetitive when it's drawn out over a month.

  • 02.07.2011 2:50 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Absolutely not. Reach falling in one day was immensely better.

When people thought of Reach, they had hope. This was a massive planet, literally covered in UNSC ships ready to fight the Covenant to their dying breath. It was so powerful, so heavily defended, people thought it literally could not fall.

The Titanic is often used as an analogy for the fall of Reach. You have this massive ship, at the time the most glorious on Earth, and it sank on its first voyage. The ship was regarded as unsinkable, so when it sank, absolutely everyone was shocked. The same goes for Reach, such a powerhouse of UNSC military, people thought it was impossible for it to fall. Even when Titanic struck an iceberg, people remained in denial. Even when the Covenant arrived at Reach, no one thought they would win.

But they did. In. One. Day. One day to destroy an entire planet. Could you imagine Earth being attacked, and being obliterated in one day? You can't. Its inconceivable to imagine an entire planet being decimated in 24 hours. It would certainly make me lose hope.

Everything that woke you up in the morning, everything that gave you hope, everything that made you tuck your children in at night and tell them "It's going to be okay", everything that enabled a mother to comfort her child and tell her daddy would be home one day, everything that gave a sick elderly woman a reason to wake up in the morning, gone. In one. Day.


An excellent contrasting analogy there. I too feel that it's better as a day long battle, it just gets boring and repetitive when it's drawn out over a month.


Aye. It also adds to the "shock and awe" factor. 700 Covie ships is overkill, an unstoppable force. It made sense that Reach didn't last.

[Edited on 02.07.2011 3:02 PM PST]

  • 02.07.2011 3:00 PM PDT


Posted by: Dark Neptune

Posted by: OniLink147

Posted by: Dark Neptune

Posted by: OniLink147

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy
Right above you, mate.

The Battle of Reach didn't take place all at once. Reach didn't fall in a single blaze of glory. The first half of the campaign jumps around dates a lot, but that are forward recon by the Covenant. The actual Battle of Reac takes place during the second half of the game.(AKA Long night Of Solace onward)


No. TFoR made the Battle of Reach really like a warzone, just that as IT WAS A BOOK not all the "epic" elements could really be flashed out.

TFoR made the BoR look like a "Arrive, Invade, Destroy, We Win!" sort of victory for the Covenant. Halo: Reach just made the entire BoR look like we're fighting on some backwater colony.

What made me really laugh with H:R's story was that Noble Six took like 9 friggin days just to walk to New Alexandria after landing off the LNoS explosion, and wait, what, the city isn't even glassed yet? Doesn't Noble Six need to eat/drink and go toilet as well?

In summary; Halo: Reach, the game, made the Battle of Reach, the planet Reach itself, Spartan supersoldiers and Covenant forces alike look like a total joke.

And based on my observations, almost if not everyone who keeps insisting Halo: Reach didn't break canon never seems to read the original 9.5 year old novel the Fall of Reach. The closest thing they get is the "The journal says it all" counterpoint. Seriously.

I hope you're not suggesting I haven't read the books. Considering I was reading the books before I even played the games and that I have read every Halo book to the point where they are falling apart I find that a bit insulting. There is a difference between breaking canon and acceptable retcon. Halo has always had retcons. Hell every story in existence that has sequels or prequels have retcons. Halo Reach has retcons, I'm not denying that, but it did not break canon.


For the last, -blam! time, oh wai-.....never mind. I just remembered that....I am preaching to the converted.

I tired of argueing with people like you. Insisting you're correct when you do not have facts to back that up.

P.S. Minor retcons are tolerable and inevitable. 10 years into Halo, Bungie hasn't learnt to minimize these retcons, no matter how small (Big). *Sigh*

I'm sorry, but your little rant there made no sense. Your tired of arguing with someone who agrees that there are inconsistency and retcons? The only thing we're disagreeing on is whether it's story breaking or not.

  • 02.07.2011 4:22 PM PDT


Posted by: Caaaarrrl

Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By:Caaaarrrl
I'm on your side.


Did I send any flak your way? Sorry if I did and volleyed my logic shells too hard. If that's not the case, awesome. The "Reach didn't mess things up" side could use a few more people arguing for it.


What logic shells? I did not say Reach didn't mess things up, but it did give a more realistic time frame for the UNSC's defeat.


I meant had I argued with you at all, I don't really keep track of people I've addressed arguments to unless a big debate really gets going. I don't believe Reach didn't change things either, but I don't think the canon is destroyed beyond repair the way some people act, it can easily be repaired, imo, so while I will agree with whoever says Reach changed things, I don't agree with the thought that it messed things up, as it's all really easily re-worked. I agree with the whole timeline thing, this is Reach we're talking about, not something like Harvest. Reach falling in a couple hours makes no sense.

  • 02.07.2011 4:28 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Caaaarrrl

Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By:Caaaarrrl
I'm on your side.


Did I send any flak your way? Sorry if I did and volleyed my logic shells too hard. If that's not the case, awesome. The "Reach didn't mess things up" side could use a few more people arguing for it.


What logic shells? I did not say Reach didn't mess things up, but it did give a more realistic time frame for the UNSC's defeat.


I meant had I argued with you at all, I don't really keep track of people I've addressed arguments to unless a big debate really gets going. I don't believe Reach didn't change things either, but I don't think the canon is destroyed beyond repair the way some people act, it can easily be repaired, imo, so while I will agree with whoever says Reach changed things, I don't agree with the thought that it messed things up, as it's all really easily re-worked. I agree with the whole timeline thing, this is Reach we're talking about, not something like Harvest. Reach falling in a couple hours makes no sense.


Sorry, at the time I was still in an argument on another forum and I was just lashing out at anyone.

  • 02.07.2011 4:33 PM PDT


Posted by: GrnDragn

Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Absolutely not. Reach falling in one day was immensely better.

When people thought of Reach, they had hope. This was a massive planet, literally covered in UNSC ships ready to fight the Covenant to their dying breath. It was so powerful, so heavily defended, people thought it literally could not fall.

The Titanic is often used as an analogy for the fall of Reach. You have this massive ship, at the time the most glorious on Earth, and it sank on its first voyage. The ship was regarded as unsinkable, so when it sank, absolutely everyone was shocked. The same goes for Reach, such a powerhouse of UNSC military, people thought it was impossible for it to fall. Even when Titanic struck an iceberg, people remained in denial. Even when the Covenant arrived at Reach, no one thought they would win.

But they did. In. One. Day. One day to destroy an entire planet. Could you imagine Earth being attacked, and being obliterated in one day? You can't. Its inconceivable to imagine an entire planet being decimated in 24 hours. It would certainly make me lose hope.

Everything that woke you up in the morning, everything that gave you hope, everything that made you tuck your children in at night and tell them "It's going to be okay", everything that enabled a mother to comfort her child and tell her daddy would be home one day, everything that gave a sick elderly woman a reason to wake up in the morning, gone. In one. Day.


An excellent contrasting analogy there. I too feel that it's better as a day long battle, it just gets boring and repetitive when it's drawn out over a month.


Aye. It also adds to the "shock and awe" factor. 700 Covie ships is overkill, an unstoppable force. It made sense that Reach didn't last.


The Fleet of Particular Justice still only numbers 314 ships, or thereabouts, I don't remember if that's the exact number or not though. The 700 ships was an error on the editor's part due to a misinterpretation of Hood's line about the Covenant fleet at Earth and his comparison to the one at Reach in Halo 2.

  • 02.07.2011 4:36 PM PDT


Posted by: GrnDragn

Posted by: OniLink147

Posted by: Dark Neptune

Posted by: OniLink147

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy
Right above you, mate.

The Battle of Reach didn't take place all at once. Reach didn't fall in a single blaze of glory. The first half of the campaign jumps around dates a lot, but that are forward recon by the Covenant. The actual Battle of Reac takes place during the second half of the game.(AKA Long night Of Solace onward)


No. TFoR made the Battle of Reach really like a warzone, just that as IT WAS A BOOK not all the "epic" elements could really be flashed out.

TFoR made the BoR look like a "Arrive, Invade, Destroy, We Win!" sort of victory for the Covenant. Halo: Reach just made the entire BoR look like we're fighting on some backwater colony.

What made me really laugh with H:R's story was that Noble Six took like 9 friggin days just to walk to New Alexandria after landing off the LNoS explosion, and wait, what, the city isn't even glassed yet? Doesn't Noble Six need to eat/drink and go toilet as well?

In summary; Halo: Reach, the game, made the Battle of Reach, the planet Reach itself, Spartan supersoldiers and Covenant forces alike look like a total joke.

And based on my observations, almost if not everyone who keeps insisting Halo: Reach didn't break canon never seems to read the original 9.5 year old novel the Fall of Reach. The closest thing they get is the "The journal says it all" counterpoint. Seriously.

I hope you're not suggesting I haven't read the books. Considering I was reading the books before I even played the games and that I have read every Halo book to the point where they are falling apart I find that a bit insulting. There is a difference between breaking canon and acceptable retcon. Halo has always had retcons. Hell every story in existence that has sequels or prequels have retcons. Halo Reach has retcons, I'm not denying that, but it did not break canon.


Yes, it did. There's a difference between making small retcons for the benefit of story and completely retconning something "because you want to." Bungie did the latter. It was not necessary to Retcon an already existing, good story. Halo Reach made Reach look like a random farmer colony, not a militar stronghold. It also made everyone look like idiot; Humanity and the Covenant. The books showed that Human Commanders were brilliant, they were complete idiots here.
Why isn't a lot of the Fleet at Reach to defend already? Where are the Super MACs? Why is Captain Keyes about to go on his mission with the SIIs when Reach had supposedly been under assault for over a month? No-one knew that Reach was under assault in the books, yet Bungie said Campaign fit "perfectly" within' the Canon(lol!)
The Covenant in the books were brutal and pretty efficient when it came to destroying worlds. As soon as the battle in space was lost, the Covenant should have started glassing. New Alexandria shouldn't have even been there when you got there. Nor should it have lasted so long.

By dragging out the battle, Bungie made the Battle of Reach less compellling. It made the Covenant look like idiots, but in the books, the fact that Reach fell in a day to an overwhelming force was better. It truly made us lose all hope.

So Bungie made a huge retcon, but it was not for the benefit of the story. It was because they had gotten tired of Halo, and just wanted to be done with it.

To answer each of your points. Reach had an incredibly small population considering how large the planet is. And besides the book only places really described was the Spartan-II Training facilities, the Menachite Mountains, CASTLE Base, and the Generators. From how Nylund described it, it sounded like a lot of wilderness rather than super developed. So panicking and sending Longswords to bomb your own men and destroy any chances of defending the generators is brilliant?(lol) Now I don't think you realize how much space there is to cover when defending a planet. Reach only had 20 ODB's protecting it. They were most likely spread out very thin to protect the planet. Even if they were all facing the same direction, you still most likely would not see them on long Night of Solace.

Read the journal for a partial explanation on the S-II's mission although, but yes it's a bit strange. And on that last part. Do you have any idea how military campaigns actually work? Really? Besides there were other planets that were similar in the Fall of Reach. On Jericho VII(From the prologue) it mentioned that the UNSC had been fighting for days against the Covenant. The there was the Battle of Harvest which lasted a long time as well. The first half of the game was recon by the Covenant, not the actual attack force.

[Edited on 02.07.2011 4:45 PM PST]

  • 02.07.2011 4:37 PM PDT


Posted by: mojeda101
Bungie can do whatever they want with the Canon, it's their game.

Games>Books
Yeah, the books are based off the games. I think Bungie has set the campaign in a good direction.

  • 02.07.2011 4:42 PM PDT

I don't understand why people are talking about why didn't the UNSC have a huge battle against the covies. I think that the military was missing and came back to Reach. Also the UNSC was making a stand until the REAL invasion came. Reach was destroyed after that.

  • 02.07.2011 4:52 PM PDT


Posted by: Caaaarrrl

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Caaaarrrl

Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By:Caaaarrrl
I'm on your side.


Did I send any flak your way? Sorry if I did and volleyed my logic shells too hard. If that's not the case, awesome. The "Reach didn't mess things up" side could use a few more people arguing for it.


What logic shells? I did not say Reach didn't mess things up, but it did give a more realistic time frame for the UNSC's defeat.


I meant had I argued with you at all, I don't really keep track of people I've addressed arguments to unless a big debate really gets going. I don't believe Reach didn't change things either, but I don't think the canon is destroyed beyond repair the way some people act, it can easily be repaired, imo, so while I will agree with whoever says Reach changed things, I don't agree with the thought that it messed things up, as it's all really easily re-worked. I agree with the whole timeline thing, this is Reach we're talking about, not something like Harvest. Reach falling in a couple hours makes no sense.


Sorry, at the time I was still in an argument on another forum and I was just lashing out at anyone.


Not a problem, I completely understand the feeling, I bear no ill feelings, especially toward someone online who I don't really know. I'm also kind of a weirdo in conversations, hence why I was talking about logic shells :P

  • 02.07.2011 4:54 PM PDT


Posted by: xDarkomantis

Posted by: mojeda101
Bungie can do whatever they want with the Canon, it's their game.

Games>Books
Yeah, the books are based off the games. I think Bungie has set the campaign in a good direction.


Typical Bungie Fanboy response. You're knowledge of Halo Canon is laughable.

  • 02.07.2011 6:13 PM PDT


Posted by: GrnDragn

Posted by: xDarkomantis

Posted by: mojeda101
Bungie can do whatever they want with the Canon, it's their game.

Games>Books
Yeah, the books are based off the games. I think Bungie has set the campaign in a good direction.


Typical Bungie Fanboy response. You're knowledge of Halo Canon is laughable.

Typical whiner response. Your inability to realize that not every story universe is perfect is laughable.

  • 02.07.2011 6:44 PM PDT


Posted by: OniLink147

Posted by: GrnDragn

Posted by: xDarkomantis

Posted by: mojeda101
Bungie can do whatever they want with the Canon, it's their game.

Games>Books
Yeah, the books are based off the games. I think Bungie has set the campaign in a good direction.


Typical Bungie Fanboy response. You're knowledge of Halo Canon is laughable.

Typical whiner response. Your inability to realize that not every story universe is perfect is laughable.


Again, a typical Bungie Fanboy response. Don't fix what ain't broken, because you're only gonna ruin it. Bungie did that.

  • 02.07.2011 7:14 PM PDT

I appreciate both for different reasons.

  • 02.07.2011 7:42 PM PDT


Posted by: GrnDragn

Posted by: OniLink147

Posted by: GrnDragn

Posted by: xDarkomantis

Posted by: mojeda101
Bungie can do whatever they want with the Canon, it's their game.

Games>Books
Yeah, the books are based off the games. I think Bungie has set the campaign in a good direction.


Typical Bungie Fanboy response. You're knowledge of Halo Canon is laughable.

Typical whiner response. Your inability to realize that not every story universe is perfect is laughable.


Again, a typical Bungie Fanboy response. Don't fix what ain't broken, because you're only gonna ruin it. Bungie did that.

They extended the time period the Fall of Reach to take place over a realistic length of time for a military campaign. Big whoop. Personally it makes it feel like a larger scale battle to me. Besides if dates matter so much to you, then why didn't the inconsistency in dates on Jenkins' helmet cam bother you? And by the way I'm not a Bungie fanboy. I'm a Halo fan. Hence why I am going to move on to 343i. I may buy bungie's next game if it interests me.

[Edited on 02.07.2011 8:28 PM PST]

  • 02.07.2011 8:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.
I have to agree.

  • 02.07.2011 9:22 PM PDT