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  • Subject: In my opinion halo reach was better than the books talking about reach
Subject: In my opinion halo reach was better than the books talking about reach

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!

Sorry for this, but this time The Fall of Reach beats down really bad at Halo: Reach in about story telling and science fiction.

Halo: Reach as campaign game is great, but as following canon and story, it really sucks.

  • 02.08.2011 6:49 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: nightspark

[quote]Posted by: manwith
The game would have been boring if everyone had worn the same green suit of Mark V, and all acting like Noble Six.


They are soldiers, not Power Rangers!

  • 02.08.2011 7:00 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


The cutscene opening Halo 2 was not that impressive, you see like maybe two ODPs and like three ships drifting past your view. In Battlefront II you only see a capitol ship for the two factions looming in the sky and that's all it shows.

The Solace was in the middle of nowhere, the only UNSC force nearby was the stuff at Anchor 9, and you still had to fly a good distance to the Solace from there. And no, the Solace wouldn't see the Saber's land on the Prayer, the distance they were from each other was extreme, you can only barely see the Solace when you're outside, I wouldn't have been able to see anything going on around the Ardent Prayer other than the fight between Savannah and Prayer, if I could see anything at all.



-That's your opinion that the Halo 2 scenes weren't impressive.But the fact is they showed us a fleet ,they showed many ships.

-Johnson says that Earth is defended by 300 ODP's
-Like you said in the opening scene,we only see few ODP's and ships.But at least they show us that Earth has some defenses.We also can't ignore the fact that the Halo 2 engine can't show many ships at the same time,Reach should have been able to do so.
-Ceremony cutscene,you see like +80 UNSC ships on a computer screen ready to engage the covies,afterwards you see longswords and cruisers flying past
-Bomb cutscene:around 20 UNSC ship in space

Halo 2 showed enough,they could have give us more impressive things in Reach but they didn't.Now,noobs will think that Reach is some weak colony.

Battlfront II showed alot of things,ground battles on geonosis or Kasyyk,dogfights and starships above you head,explosions around the battlefield and that was just a game with a weaker engine then Reach.

-Yes,but the solace was just sitting there and didn't helped the corvette,unless their radar is broken.Retarded ship master.



1.They were evacuating civilians, did you not play the level Exodus? They've been evacuating New Alexandria for at least five days, what, do you think they're going get them all out instantly? Evacuating such a large city as New Alexandria would take many, many, many days.
2.See above section dealing with the LNoS.
3.That is a weak point yes, but one weak point does not make the entire story suck, and that is pretty much the only one. They could have used something else to destroy the LNoS, but the Slipspace "bomb" was pretty awesome.

That's just your opinion then, 'cause I felt the utter hopelessness, I almost didn't want to play because it was depressing.

4.We're not in space, we don't know when the orbital defense were finally lost, and it's not impossible for a couple ships to break through the defenses.

Yes, I know that's what the books say, and that is how about what the odds were at Reach, there aproximately 314 Covie ships, and I think a little more than half as many UNSC ships, the same odds as all the other recorded fights, plus the SMACs, the odds are basically even, that is a fight that should have dragged out for a while, even if the generators got knocked out the UNSC ships should hold their own, especially with such brilliant minds as Captain mother--blam!- Keyes at Reach.

No, all the Super Carrier did was engage the ground forces and lay waste to the Viery Territory and all forces there, and then it was going up into space, and the LNoS mission happened before it could do anything to the Home Fleet. Why send multiple ships to attack it and probably their asses handed to them when you're going to use Operation Uppercut?

The Battle of Sigma Octanus IV, the Battles of Harvest, to name what I know, there might be more, I haven't read every scrap of Halo material I can find yet.


1.No,why didn't they start evacuating on the 24th of June.Instead of that they waited too long till the main fleet arrived,the result is that millions of civilians have died.
2.They have radars,they wouldn't be travelling in space with just their naked eyes.They should have destroyed the savannah and send more serpah reinforcements,instead they seemed to be blind.The solace didn't knew that the ardent was attacked,as said by one of the pilots.
3.Yes it was awesome,but that quote was still stupid as hell.
Carter could have said that nukes are pwoerful enough to pentrate the shields.

-Yes,it could have been done better.But really half of the game wasn't about hopeleness.Except that later levels.

-Brilliant commanders or not,the UNSC would have needed fleet of 600+ UNSC ships to defeat a 314 strong covie fleet(excluding the SMAC's).

-I think that nearly most the UNSC fleet had been obliterated by the supercarrier,because carter said that the ships carrying the nukes went down.Every UNSC ship has nukes,seems like the solace beat the -blam!- out of the fleet.

-Those were battle where the UNSC had outnumbered the covenant fleet,but still had many loses.There had never been a battle where a smaller UNSC fleet destroyed a larger covie fleet unless nova bomb ,reactor explosion or keyes were involved with.

You can checked the battle list on halopedian

[Edited on 02.09.2011 8:02 AM PST]

  • 02.09.2011 4:44 AM PDT

Dark Neptune, a young amateur astronomer whose gaming life is no different from other teenagers of his age, though he controls it more strictly then others.


Posted by: MasterSin

Posted by: nightspark

[quote]Posted by: manwith
The game would have been boring if everyone had worn the same green suit of Mark V, and all acting like Noble Six.


They are soldiers, not Power Rangers!


Exactly. When fans first read Master Chief's side of the story in TFoR, FS, GoO throughout his engagments, it already gives us the feeling that the MC is part of team, not some social outcast.

Noble Six in H:R felt like Carter's and Kat's slave. Always being issued orders without remorse.

It's ironic though, ODST's storyline actually has better character development. It doesn't matter if one member is a silent type. All it mattered was that ODST's storyline felt like you really were part of the squad for the sake of survival, rather than being mental meatshields for some idiotic comrades to fight alongside with.

  • 02.09.2011 5:52 AM PDT

Dark Neptune, a young amateur astronomer whose gaming life is no different from other teenagers of his age, though he controls it more strictly then others.


Posted by: hotshot revan II
You can checked the battle list on halopedian


I am a veteran Halopedia editor. And I say as long as anyone (Mentally sane or retarded) can edit, never trust the info on the site there 100%.

  • 02.09.2011 5:56 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Alpha00
Posted by: hotshot revan II
Which battles?Last time i checked the only spacebattles the UNSC won was when the UNSC outnumbered the covies,but it still led to heavy casualities at the UNSC side.


If I remember, in Evolutions, Cole blows up a few hundred by sending a sun into nova.

What about Ghosts of Onyx, when the NOVA bomb blew up and entire elite fleet?


Om my god...

*bangs head into the desk*

I asked for battles where UNSC ships defeated covenant ships and not some lucky victory with superweapons.I asked for ship to ship combat.

So far you failed to prove how the UNSC would survive that long if they lose guarenteed against a superior fleet.

  • 02.09.2011 8:13 AM PDT

poop


Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.

Bungie made Halo, whatever Bungie does is canon.

  • 02.09.2011 8:39 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Nicke Sw3

Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.

Bungie made Halo, whatever Bungie does is canon.


Too bad microsoft owns Halo.

You argument in case of canon is now invalid.

But ofcourse bungie are the ones who created the Halo verse.But they have no rights to change it for a stupid reason when ms owns it.

  • 02.09.2011 9:00 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Nicke Sw3
Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.

Bungie made Halo, whatever Bungie does is canon.


Master Chief takes off his helmet and is actually a dinosaur, would you really defend something as stupid as that if Bungie did it?

  • 02.09.2011 10:07 AM PDT

I am a practicing traditional Catholic.


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Nicke Sw3
Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.

Bungie made Halo, whatever Bungie does is canon.


Master Chief takes off his helmet and is actually a dinosaur, would you really defend something as stupid as that if Bungie did it?

I think your logic is flawed. It's called a Straw Man fallacy. You made an example of something so ludicrous that nobody would agree with that and therefore tried to invalidate the point of the person whom you were arguing with. Of course he wouldn't agree with that but he's never going to be in a potition when that would happen.

  • 02.09.2011 10:25 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Magna117
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Nicke Sw3
Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.

Bungie made Halo, whatever Bungie does is canon.


Master Chief takes off his helmet and is actually a dinosaur, would you really defend something as stupid as that if Bungie did it?

I think your logic is flawed. It's called a Straw Man fallacy. You made an example of something so ludicrous that nobody would agree with that and therefore tried to invalidate the point of the person whom you were arguing with. Of course he wouldn't agree with that but he's never going to be in a potition when that would happen.


I think your logic is flawed. You can't predict the future.

Bad humour aside, since 343 are in charge of Halo's canon and the things they've done (e.g Evolutions) support TFOR version of canon and not Reach's, Reach is essentially invalid.

  • 02.09.2011 10:31 AM PDT

Posted By:
-That's your opinion that the Halo 2 scenes weren't impressive.But the fact is they showed us a fleet ,they showed many ships.

-Johnson says that Earth is defended by 300 ODP's
-Like you said in the opening scene,we only see few ODP's and ships.But at least they show us that Earth has some defenses.We also can't ignore the fact that the Halo 2 engine can't show many ships at the same time,Reach should have been able to do so.
-Ceremony cutscene,you see like +80 UNSC ships on a computer screen ready to engage the covies,afterwards you see longswords and cruisers flying past
-Bomb cutscene:around 20 UNSC ship in space

Halo 2 showed enough,they could have give us more impressive things in Reach but they didn't.Now,noobs will think that Reach is some weak colony.

Battlfront II showed alot of things,ground battles on geonosis or Kasyyk,dogfights and starships above you head,explosions around the battlefield and that was just a game with a weaker engine then Reach.

-Yes,but the solace was just sitting there and didn't helped the corvette,unless their radar is broken.Retarded ship master.


The difference are very easily explained, Reach has already appeared in the canon of Halo, TFoR describes the sort of defenses Reach has, Earth had not appeared yet by the time of Halo 2, hence why it's defenses and its force of strength are described, because we hadn't been there yet.

The Super Carrier doesn't strike me as something very fast or maneuverable, and even if they were moving to help the corvette out you don't see because you're inside the corvette the entire time.

1.No,why didn't they start evacuating on the 24th of June.Instead of that they waited too long till the main fleet arrived,the result is that millions of civilians have died.
2.They have radars,they wouldn't be travelling in space with just their naked eyes.They should have destroyed the savannah and send more serpah reinforcements,instead they seemed to be blind.The solace didn't knew that the ardent was attacked,as said by one of the pilots.
3.Yes it was awesome,but that quote was still stupid as hell.
Carter could have said that nukes are pwoerful enough to pentrate the shields.

-Yes,it could have been done better.But really half of the game wasn't about hopeleness.Except that later levels.

-Brilliant commanders or not,the UNSC would have needed fleet of 600+ UNSC ships to defeat a 314 strong covie fleet(excluding the SMAC's).

-I think that nearly most the UNSC fleet had been obliterated by the supercarrier,because carter said that the ships carrying the nukes went down.Every UNSC ship has nukes,seems like the solace beat the -blam!- out of the fleet.

-Those were battle where the UNSC had outnumbered the covenant fleet,but still had many loses.There had never been a battle where a smaller UNSC fleet destroyed a larger covie fleet unless nova bomb ,reactor explosion or keyes were involved with.

You can checked the battle list on halopedian


1.Why evacuate when it's a threat you can easily steamroll or if you don't even know if it's an enemy force that calls for an evacuation.
2.He said the corvette wasn't able to call for help and so the LNoS shouldn't be alerted. Even if it was alerted to the fighting it wouldn't know that the Sabres had hijacked it.

Oh gosh, you severely over-estimate the Covenant's strength and underestimate the UNSC, yes the Covenant should win most fights because of their better technology, but the odds at Reach were completely even, according to what the books say the UNSC need numerically to win anyway. And figure the SMACs and Captain God-Damned Mother -blam!- Keyes into the equation the fight should not have lasted two hours. Remember Keyes took out like four Covenant ships with just one when the odds declared he should have lost.

  • 02.09.2011 4:25 PM PDT

Sir Arch-Duke Ferdinand II Jr. Sr. III Phd.

Posted by: Nicke Sw3

Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.

Bungie made Halo, whatever Bungie does is canon.


Reach broke no canon. If Marcus Lehto says so, then it is true. He is the CREATIVE DIRECTOR

  • 02.09.2011 5:25 PM PDT


Posted by: GeorgeBaggy
Posted by: Nicke Sw3

Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.

Bungie made Halo, whatever Bungie does is canon.


Reach broke no canon. If Marcus Lehto says so, then it is true. He is the CREATIVE DIRECTOR


Do you believe everything Bungie says? :P

  • 02.09.2011 7:35 PM PDT


Posted by: GrnDragn

Posted by: GeorgeBaggy
Posted by: Nicke Sw3

Posted by: Sorta Kinda Yea
You never break canon. Halo:Reach broke canon, ergo Halo:Reach bad.

Bungie made Halo, whatever Bungie does is canon.


Reach broke no canon. If Marcus Lehto says so, then it is true. He is the CREATIVE DIRECTOR


Do you believe everything Bungie says? :P


Do you hate everything Bungie says? :P
Sorry, that was immature of me, maybe I need a break from all this madness, haha xD That's as low as I will stoop, I will not do it again :P

  • 02.09.2011 8:00 PM PDT

Nobles was a side story to reach it's like this what if ww2 was stopped by a unknown secret force that managed to wipe out a certain creation or such to stop the war, yet we were told it was the Atom Bomb Right?

  • 02.09.2011 9:49 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Seeing as how both sides will probably never agree, I decided to...lighten the mood if you will. Coma...you are my hero for this very line...

Posted by: OrderedComa
Captain God-Damned Mother -blam!- Keyes


Every thread that debates Reach and TFoR, I tend to see that statement right there. That is my new favorite line. I am quoting that. Thank you.

Ok, back to the topic at hand. >>'

  • 02.09.2011 9:55 PM PDT
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Alf stewert
Nobles was a side story to reach it's like this what if ww2 was stopped by a unknown secret force that managed to wipe out a certain creation or such to stop the war, yet we were told it was the Atom Bomb Right?

So they should have named the game Halo: Noble, or anything that's NOT Halo: Reach, because we hardly saw anything that Reach was known for.

Your own analogy can be turned against you; if I told you the story of Ephialtes, it doesn't mean I told you the story of The battle of Thermopylae, though his story is by all means an important part of the overall story. The same goes with Halo: Reach.

  • 02.09.2011 9:58 PM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert
Nobles was a side story to reach it's like this what if ww2 was stopped by a unknown secret force that managed to wipe out a certain creation or such to stop the war, yet we were told it was the Atom Bomb Right?

So they should have named the game Halo: Noble, or anything that's NOT Halo: Reach, because we hardly saw anything that Reach was known for.

Your own analogy can be turned against you; if I told you the story of Ephialtes, it doesn't mean I told you the story of The battle of Thermopylae, though his story is by all means an important part of the overall story. The same goes with Halo: Reach.
no you just told me another perspective of the Battle ;) Nobles was important but a side story to the Main story of TFOR, Everyone has a different perspective of Another :)

[Edited on 02.09.2011 10:16 PM PST]

  • 02.09.2011 10:14 PM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
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CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert
Nobles was a side story to reach it's like this what if ww2 was stopped by a unknown secret force that managed to wipe out a certain creation or such to stop the war, yet we were told it was the Atom Bomb Right?

So they should have named the game Halo: Noble, or anything that's NOT Halo: Reach, because we hardly saw anything that Reach was known for.

Your own analogy can be turned against you; if I told you the story of Ephialtes, it doesn't mean I told you the story of The battle of Thermopylae, though his story is by all means an important part of the overall story. The same goes with Halo: Reach.
no you just told me another perspective of the Battle ;) Nobles was important but a side story to the Main story of TFOR, Everyone has a different perspective of Another :)

I fail to see the point in this reply, you practically just said what I said with no regards to the main point, which was that they should not have named it Halo: Reach. A side story, no matter how important, does not represent the whole and should not be named as such.

  • 02.10.2011 12:13 AM PDT


Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert
Nobles was a side story to reach it's like this what if ww2 was stopped by a unknown secret force that managed to wipe out a certain creation or such to stop the war, yet we were told it was the Atom Bomb Right?

So they should have named the game Halo: Noble, or anything that's NOT Halo: Reach, because we hardly saw anything that Reach was known for.

Your own analogy can be turned against you; if I told you the story of Ephialtes, it doesn't mean I told you the story of The battle of Thermopylae, though his story is by all means an important part of the overall story. The same goes with Halo: Reach.
no you just told me another perspective of the Battle ;) Nobles was important but a side story to the Main story of TFOR, Everyone has a different perspective of Another :)

I fail to see the point in this reply, you practically just said what I said with no regards to the main point, which was that they should not have named it Halo: Reach. A side story, no matter how important, does not represent the whole and should not be named as such.
you clearly Do not think outside the Box, No need to ponder on that thought you wont get it at all (cue the rabib fanboy saying I am a troll) :/

  • 02.10.2011 12:24 AM PDT
  • gamertag: An0nz
  • user homepage:

CoD is a good game, even if the Halo series are better in some aspects. Anyone who insults either is just bad in that game. Grow up.


Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert

Posted by: Beowolfe

Posted by: Alf stewert
Nobles was a side story to reach it's like this what if ww2 was stopped by a unknown secret force that managed to wipe out a certain creation or such to stop the war, yet we were told it was the Atom Bomb Right?

So they should have named the game Halo: Noble, or anything that's NOT Halo: Reach, because we hardly saw anything that Reach was known for.

Your own analogy can be turned against you; if I told you the story of Ephialtes, it doesn't mean I told you the story of The battle of Thermopylae, though his story is by all means an important part of the overall story. The same goes with Halo: Reach.
no you just told me another perspective of the Battle ;) Nobles was important but a side story to the Main story of TFOR, Everyone has a different perspective of Another :)

I fail to see the point in this reply, you practically just said what I said with no regards to the main point, which was that they should not have named it Halo: Reach. A side story, no matter how important, does not represent the whole and should not be named as such.
you clearly Do not think outside the Box, No need to ponder on that thought you wont get it at all (cue the rabib fanboy saying I am a troll) :/

Or cue me saying you suck at debating. This is how you've always reacted when you have no facts to back you up, revert back to something that's seemingly thoughtful but in truth quite irrelevant to the topic at hand.

I quite understand that it's a different perspective, what I'm saying is that Halo Reach neither mentioned nor portrayed the important things that the Battle of Reach was known for, and it is its own side story, with only the last couple of missions actually connecting to the previously established overarching story. You don't see them naming Halo: ODST Halo: Earth, but that's also a different perspective, in fact, it's several different perspectives. A couple of missions that somewhat connect to Halo: CE does not justify the naming of Halo: Reach...

  • 02.10.2011 8:47 AM PDT


Posted by: kit_103
Seeing as how both sides will probably never agree, I decided to...lighten the mood if you will. Coma...you are my hero for this very line...

Posted by: OrderedComa
Captain God-Damned Mother -blam!- Keyes


Every thread that debates Reach and TFoR, I tend to see that statement right there. That is my new favorite line. I am quoting that. Thank you.

Ok, back to the topic at hand. >>'


It's fun to say :P Who knows, maybe it'll become a meme, haha. Too bad Miranda's career was cut short by Truth, she probably had a lot of potential, what with being the daughter of one of the greatest military minds and by far the greatest scientist of the era.

I don't understand how you can claim that the game should not have been called Reach, Beowolfe, Reach, the planet, is the focal point of the game. It is the account of Noble Team's actions during the Battle of Reach. By your logic TFoR should not have been called that, because the battle took up so little of that book and it is was more about the backstories of Chief and Keyes and the origins of the Spartan II program.

  • 02.10.2011 1:53 PM PDT

Definately. Even if I was never interested in the books.

  • 02.10.2011 3:01 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Snowy Zoe
Definately. Even if I was never interested in the books.

Our main problem, right there.

  • 02.10.2011 3:29 PM PDT