Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo: Why it's fun, but incompetently made (28 page review)
  • Subject: Halo: Why it's fun, but incompetently made (28 page review)
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4
Subject: Halo: Why it's fun, but incompetently made (28 page review)

Since this is approximately an 28 page review of Halo Reach's Campaign, I can't post all of it.

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=182239

  • 02.02.2011 4:46 PM PDT

About me: I am a vicious wolf of a man.

But really am sweet at heart. =)

Yeah, that really nicely sums up how I feel about it.

  • 02.02.2011 5:34 PM PDT

im not troll'n
crazy capers
Follow me on twitter
Check out my xat
*~*~*~*~*~*~*IListen2No1*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*

everybody knows the campaign sucked @ss

  • 02.02.2011 5:54 PM PDT

Halo: Reach is the Star Wars: Phantom Menace of the Halo series.

Let's hope we can all just look at it as "that really bad one."

  • 02.02.2011 5:59 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The Death Watch Clan Co-Leader

i liked Phatom menace and the caimpaign. Stop all the hatin.

  • 02.02.2011 6:57 PM PDT

Error 404:
-Error not found.

Damn, he beat my thread (Below) by eight pages!!!

  • 02.02.2011 7:14 PM PDT

im not troll'n
crazy capers
Follow me on twitter
Check out my xat
*~*~*~*~*~*~*IListen2No1*~*~*~*~*~*~*~~*

bungies great at making games the reach campaign was just shakey and terrible main character voice acting except jorge and noble 6

  • 02.02.2011 7:47 PM PDT

Guys, relax.

Halo's about beautiful art/graphics and rampaging through enemy ranks. Reach delivered both those things in abundance.

The design of the landscape and especially the backdrops were usually breathtaking, and the gameplay had been honed to the optimal mixture and cranked up several notches in scale. Then we had the new jetpacks etc. which were awesomely executed first time.

Definitely best in the series unless you care about pointless minutiae.

Halo 1 had too many boring indoor sections, Halo 2 had some poor levels, Halo 3 was awesome but on a smaller scale, ODST was just too damn dark and not being a Spartan is less fun. And the city hub didn't look too good.

  • 02.03.2011 1:27 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

He basically just assumes how things would have worked out without any logical reasons behind his reasonings and manages even to be dumb enough not to realize the game would have played itself if the friendly AI had acted any smarter when the game is already a joke on Legendary.

I especially laughed when he mentioned that Six is basically inferior and less valuable asset to the UNSC than Jorge in every way, despite the rank Lieutenant, and hyper-lethal rating Six carries, and yet, he mentions that some, if not all of the events from the novels never happened in Reach, when I have personally read all of the novels regarding Reach, including Halsey's Journal and it all fits just fine. Even the PoA being on Reach.

[Edited on 02.03.2011 2:58 AM PST]

  • 02.03.2011 2:41 AM PDT


Posted by: manwith
He basically just assumes how things would have worked out without any logical reasons behind his reasonings and manages even to be dumb enough not to realize the game would have played itself if the friendly AI had acted any smarter when the game is already a joke on Legendary.

I especially laughed when he mentioned that Six is basically inferior and less valuable asset to the UNSC than Jorge in every way, despite the rank Lieutenant, and hyper-lethal rating Six carries, and yet, he mentions that some, if not all of the events from the novels never happened in Reach, when I have personally read all of the novels regarding Reach, including Halsey's Journal and it all fits just fine. Even the PoA being on Reach.


I'm with Manwith here, the writer of the article came across as way too confrontational for me to agree with anything he said, and he does not seem to realize the difference between gameplay and the actual canon story. Spartans can't kick as much ass in gameplay as they really can because otherwise things would just play themselves and you could kick back and your team do all the work. It's like the Arbiter in Halo 3, his AI is rather moronic, like all the rest, but in story he's the greatest Covenant warrior of the age, possibly the equal of a Spartan.

The writer came across like all the other haters of Reach who claim the canon is mutilated beyond repair, hyper-analyzing things finding fault with just about everything to justify their nerd-rage. Some of his points could be valid, but it's hard to not write him off as angry "they changed things now they suck" guy because of how he presented himself throughout the article.

  • 02.03.2011 7:17 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

My apologies if you saw it that way. I thought I had clearly divorced the idiocy of the Friendly A.I. in game from the idiocy of the canon story and scripted events.

Am I upset? Yes. Because I *know* that Bungie can do better than this. They proved that with Halo: CE and with Halo 2. They can write a compelling story, if not a perfect one. They can write one where half the plot points don't require one side or the other to have the intelligence of a retarded goldfish for them to happen.

  • 02.03.2011 7:39 AM PDT


Posted by: Aratech
My apologies if you saw it that way. I thought I had clearly divorced the idiocy of the Friendly A.I. in game from the idiocy of the canon story and scripted events.

Am I upset? Yes. Because I *know* that Bungie can do better than this. They proved that with Halo: CE and with Halo 2. They can write a compelling story, if not a perfect one. They can write one where half the plot points don't require one side or the other to have the intelligence of a retarded goldfish for them to happen.


Well I guess we must agree to disagree here, I didn't think any of the scripted events were any dumber than any other story, the one exception being the bomb cliched death for Jorge (though he still could be alive, it's not impossible) and Kat's, they didn't really pull it off that well.

On the whole "Tip of the Spear" point you raised in your article. Most the UNSC army was not destroyed, you don't see the rest of the ground forces because your group was splitting off to take out the AA Gun, and I would assume the rest of the army split up to take on other targets as well.

Even though I hate her guts due to a stupid AI, I think you're a little harsh on poor Kat :P
We don't know what the rest of the recon teams found or did, so I think it's a little silly to question her calling everyone back once you find the AA gun and the army fielding area, everything seemed like it had been pretty well reconed in Tip of the Spear.
I can't explain the Long Night of Solace bit though, other than it wouldn't have been much fun if a bunch of UNSC ships used a nuke on the Super Carrier and you didn't do much.
And as for having to secure an LZ for Keyes, I don't think you were cleaning it up so he could get there, it struck me more as, clean it up while I fly there so we don't have any interference when we land.

I agree, Reach could have been a whole lot better, I think part of the decline in the games recently might be that they're tired of making only Halo, I'm an amateur writer, so I would completely understand it if that is indeed the case. One can only work on something for so long before they get tired of it and the quality starts to decline. I however do not think that Reach's story is the utter bottom of the heap for Bungie's storytelling.

  • 02.03.2011 8:20 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Meant to reply to this earlier, but real life beckoned. Apologies for the formatting, but for some reason, this board will not allow for me to break up a quote and respond to individual parts of it.

"I especially laughed when he mentioned that Six is basically inferior and less valuable asset to the UNSC than Jorge in every way, despite the rank Lieutenant, and hyper-lethal rating Six carries,"

Manwith, I want you to note the bolded part right there. That's where your credibility made like the Glass Menagerie. By that logic, Kat is more valuable/effective than Six. Cripes, by that logic, she's more valuable/effective than the Master Chief himself, and I don't exactly see people lining up to proclaim that Ms. Short-Bus-Spartan can even hold a candle to a soldier who's perceived as the angel of death by an entire alien empire, let alone that she is his better. Jorge is the more combat effective and valuable soldier. Full stop. This is not a dig against Six, but it is mere fact. A good comparison would be if you had a similar situation, and you had to either kill a Marine or an ODST to destroy an enemy facility. It would be rather foolish to sacrifice the ODST when the Marine will suffice. This is because the ODST is more skilled, more valuable, and because the marine is easier to replace. It's cold as hell, I know. But that's war for you.

Coma:

"
Even though I hate her guts due to a stupid AI, I think you're a little harsh on poor Kat :P
We don't know what the rest of the recon teams found or did, so I think it's a little silly to question her calling everyone back once you find the AA gun and the army fielding area, everything seemed like it had been pretty well reconed in Tip of the Spear."

No, we don't know if they found anything important. But we do know that this was a major Covenant staging area that they were preparing to assault. We know that the Covenant are able to block the UNSC's electronic surveillance methods, and we know, now, that thanks to Jun and Six's actions, that the Covenant are on notice that the UNSC is snooping around. You *need* to keep eyes on target to see how the enemy reacts. Where they position their troops. Where they're strongest. Where they're weakest. What the enemy makeup is. This is especially true because the attack comes, what, eight hours later? In war, eight hours is an eternity. Anything can happen, if you'll pardon the cliche. It is absolutely vital that you know, to the best of your ability, what the enemy is capable of before you rush into a situation. The UNSC was unable to do that due to Kat's inane decision to pull back everyone who could have kept an eye on the situation.

[Edited on 02.04.2011 9:00 AM PST]

  • 02.04.2011 8:54 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Higher rank individuals are more valuable because of their training so during war they are harder to replace.

The problem here is the apparent random throwing of ranks on Spartans in the Halo Universe. So he isnt really wrong he is just bringing a bit too much real world referencing to a video game.

[Edited on 02.04.2011 11:13 AM PST]

  • 02.04.2011 9:05 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Again, not necessarily. It depends on the situation. A Spartan II, by default, will have more training and experience and be much more valuable than a III, who is meant to be a disposable shock-trooper that can be sent in on a one way mission where a Spartan II is *far too valuable to waste.* Indeed, I believe it's stated somewhere that between equipment, training, and the like, a Spartan II's value is roughly comparable to a UNSC destroyer. Likely, the fact that the III's seem to have higher ranks than the IIs (I think the only II who outranks the Chief is Kurt, and even he's not as good), is because they operate both in larger numbers (thus, it keeps the chain of command clear) and because they don't have the same 'experience' as the II's. By that I mean they haven't been around as long/working with each other as long, etc, and so need that chain of command to maintain order when their suicide mission invariably goes south, as it always does towards the end.

[Edited on 02.04.2011 9:12 AM PST]

  • 02.04.2011 9:11 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

You missed my point. Unless Jorge is hyper-lethal he does not remain superior to Six in regards of rank and effectiveness in the field.

  • 02.04.2011 9:18 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

You can, of course, prove this? I mean, I'd love to see you actually present a credible argument.

[Edited on 02.04.2011 9:35 AM PST]

  • 02.04.2011 9:35 AM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

[I agree, Reach could have been a whole lot better, I think part of the decline in the games recently might be that they're tired of making only Halo, I'm an amateur writer, so I would completely understand it if that is indeed the case. One can only work on something for so long before they get tired of it and the quality starts to decline. I however do not think that Reach's story is the utter bottom of the heap for Bungie's storytelling.


I understand they may have been tired but still that does not mean they can't make reach the best damn story out there.giving the fact that this was going to be their last halo

[Edited on 02.04.2011 9:43 AM PST]

  • 02.04.2011 9:41 AM PDT

Loyal Halo fan.
H:CE, H:CE PC, H:2, H:2 Vista, H:3, H:3 ODST, H:Wars, H:Reach

Posted by: OrderedComa
Spartans cant kick as much ass in gameplay as they really can because otherwise things would just play themselves and you could kick back and your team do all the work. It's like the Arbiter in Halo 3, his AI is rather moronic, like all the rest, but in story he's the greatest Covenant warrior of the age, possibly the equal of a Spartan.

I agree that when the opposing force in a game is not even a tough challenge on its hardest difficulty moronic friendly AI is a good way to balance the scales. However this is a growing problem with the Halo series. Legendary is becoming more like Normal and Heroic while Easy might as well give you invincibility and a bottomless clip, infinite ammo rocket launcher and sniper rifle.

Bungie said that they wanted to make the Covenant scary and alien again. All they did was take away the funny grunt voices and make the Elites jump from side to side a bit. They should have made them harder, tougher and more capable of kicking your armor plated butt back to Onyx. When a supposedly hardcore Elite Zealot commander goes down to a shot from a plasma pistol and a bullet to the head, a not even remotely challenging feat, something is definitely wrong.

They should have given the plasma pistol less lock on, and I very much doubt that state of the art Special Forces amour would be penetrated by one shot of a standard ballistic weapon. Also the Covies plasma weaponry should pack more punch. While the plasma pistol is completely OP in campaign the rest of their armory is much less effective than the supposedly inferior UNSC gear. In the books the plasma powered weapons burn through marines (and as shown by Linda in the book The Fall of Reach, can take out an unshielded Spartan in seconds) and needler rounds can blow a hole in your side. The powers of single shots from these weapons are ridiculously weak and while they dont fit in with the competitive side of Halo multiplayer they should be more powerful in the Covenants hands.

To make the Covies once again a threatening advanced alien race they should be made stronger and more powerful. Not necessarily more intelligent but definitely more resilient and lethal. This would also mean that better friendly AI wouldnt be overpowering as they would still need back up from the player character.

  • 02.04.2011 10:13 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Aratech
You can, of course, prove this? I mean, I'd love to see you actually present a credible argument.


The problem is that you cannot prove me that there's any Spartan-II who's better than Noble Six when it comes to rating and combat effectiveness, such as making entire militia groups disappear by yourself without leaving a trace that Six has done in his record.

If you asked me who would win Master Chief or Noble Six, I would answer Noble Six would win, because he's apparently the best Spartan-III, and carries a title only one other Spartan-II possibly has + he's a lone wolf assassin, unlike Master Chief who heavily relies on his teammates.

But, if you asked me who would win Fred or Noble Six, you would scare the hell out of me, and I couldn't tell you. Fred is better than Master Chief in every category (sniping, hand to hand and close quarters combat) and I can only see him or Linda being rated hyper-lethal from the Spartan-IIs).

But now that you asked that question, if hyper-lethal vector does not mean a lot to you, then I don't know what does, but I for one will not go for the stupid Spartan-II > Spartan-III argument that holds no water in my eyes.

[Edited on 02.04.2011 10:29 AM PST]

  • 02.04.2011 10:28 AM PDT

Loyal Halo fan.
H:CE, H:CE PC, H:2, H:2 Vista, H:3, H:3 ODST, H:Wars, H:Reach

Posted by: manwith
If you asked me who would win Master Chief or Noble Six, I would answer Noble Six would win, because he's apparently the best Spartan-III, and carries a title only one other Spartan-II possibly has + he's a lone wolf assassin, unlike Master Chief who heavily relies on his teammates.

Master Chief suvived the whole of the the Halo trilogy with no spartan back up. He performs better with teamates (as stands to reason, someone whatching your back increaces suvival chances) but can still take out Covie armies by himself.

Also both Master Chief and Noble Six are rated hyper-leathal so are on a even footing in terms of battle skill. However as stated over and over again the Chief is one lucky Spartan. He always suvives somehow, no matter the odds. Alone in a alien infested ship, whether it be Covie or Flood, he comes out the other side in one piece, often with said ship exploding and killing everything inside. Another testiment to the Chief's luck and Noble Six's luck is the fact that the Chief is alive and Six is dead. Both faced tough challenges and only one walked out the other side.

[Edited on 02.04.2011 10:52 AM PST]

  • 02.04.2011 10:51 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"
The problem is that you cannot prove me that there's any Spartan-II who's better than Noble Six when it comes to rating and combat effectiveness, such as making entire militia groups disappear by yourself without leaving a trace that Six has done in his record."

Appeal to ignorance fallacy and shifting the burden of proof.

"
If you asked me who would win Master Chief or Noble Six, I would answer Noble Six would win, because he's apparently the best Spartan-III, and carries a title only one other Spartan-II possibly has + he's a lone wolf assassin, unlike Master Chief who heavily relies on his teammates."

Except for Halo: CE, First Strike's entire first act, Halo 2, Halo 3, etc, etc...

Someone clearly played a different Halo franchise than the rest of the world.

"
But, if you asked me who would win Fred or Noble Six, you would scare the hell out of me, and I couldn't tell you. Fred is better than Master Chief in every category (sniping, hand to hand and close quarters combat) and I can only see him or Linda being rated hyper-lethal from the Spartan-IIs)."

You will provide the evidence that Fred is superior to the Chief in every category. You will do so now.

"
But now that you asked that question, if hyper-lethal vector does not mean a lot to you, then I don't know what does, but I for one will not go for the stupid Spartan-II > Spartan-III argument that holds no water in my eyes."

Unfortunately for you, my friend, I'm not the one who has to prove things here. You see, I've got years of evidence to back me up. Since their introduction in GoO, it has been made clear that the III's are inferior to the II's, in exchange for being a fraction of the resource hogs. You, therefore, have to prove that Six is the One True Mark III, who is superior to every Spartan II ever made. So far all you have is a vague "Hyper-Lethal" claim that means absolutely nothing without concrete facts to back it up (Hyper-Lethal compared to what? A Spartan II? Another III? A Grunt? An overweight cat with only two legs?) and your demonstration of a hilarious ignorance of the Halo franchise.

Get cracking, boyo. Chop, chop.

  • 02.04.2011 12:48 PM PDT

Seriously Oak, Ive been doing this -blam!- for 16 years, gimmie my Friggen starter Pokemon and dont call me till im the champion! ¬_¬

I think the halo storys a great one, but ive always been a sucker for sci fi

The word is, the way halo was made was they came up with a concept map, just a wooded area where the horizon came up instead of down, they built the story around that.

An idea that existed before, ever heard of the novel "Ringworld"?


I personally love the "What if" approach to narrative development, come up with a concept, build on the points around that concept, and then fill in the little details

Like "What if the moon crashed into the earth 5000 years ago?" You then consider the reprocusions, the lack of tide, the meteor impacts we didnt have the moon to protect us from, the changing landscape of the planet

THEN you think about who's living on this world, how sociaty would have evolved, what events could unfold in such a world :P

  • 02.04.2011 1:03 PM PDT

"If you treat people right, they will treat you right - ninety percent of the time."
-Franklin D. Roosevelt

"No soldier should be honored for doing what is expected."
-John-117

Posted by: IListen2No1isme
everybody knows the campaign sucked @ss


*Contains nerdrage*

Plenty of people loved the Campaign. Even Youtube makes better comments on it than the Community.

  • 02.04.2011 1:06 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Aratech

I'm not the one questioning ''spoken in Halo universe''- facts here.

  • 02.04.2011 1:44 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4