Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Question regarding "The Captive" in Halo Cryptum
  • Subject: Question regarding "The Captive" in Halo Cryptum
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: Question regarding "The Captive" in Halo Cryptum

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

So I just finished Cryptum (Yes I know I'm late), and I've come to an ambiguous point trying to categorize the Captive as Flood or Precursor. It is stated that all precursors have 4 arms, 2 legs, and an insectiod like head, and are generally large in size. A similar description to the Gravemind. However, it is also said the captive was quarantined by precursor technology as well. Are the Precursors really just collectively graveminds, and this one happens to be imprisoned by it's kind for some reason? Or does this mean the Captive is an infected Precursor?

A little help to comprehend this. Thanks.

  • 02.07.2011 2:05 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Cowbell.

Haven't read the whole thing, but maybe graveminds are infected precursors? if thats what you were trying to point out, I'm sorry.

  • 02.07.2011 2:13 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

The Captive is "The last Precursor", so that wouldn't make much sense.

[Edited on 02.07.2011 2:14 PM PST]

  • 02.07.2011 2:13 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.

Haven't read it, couldn't tell ya.

  • 02.07.2011 2:19 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Where are all the regular Universe Theorists/Canon Observers?

  • 02.07.2011 2:38 PM PDT

There is significant evidence, yet still plenty of debate, pointing to the possibility of the Captive being the Gravemind. Some of the more obvious examples include:

--The Flood as ancient humanity knew it was more like the black plague rather then a coordinated alien menace. EG: no Gravemind.

--Both Captive and the Mind had been alone with Medicant Bias for 43 years, after which time, in both cases, Bias turns on the Forerunners.

--Captive states the Flood is the Precursor's answer to the Forerunner's alleged overthrowing of the Precursors. It is likely he is the one leading the Flood.

It is likely the Captive infects himself and becomes the Gravemind, if he isn't already in control. This does not negate the possibility he is a Precursor though.

  • 02.07.2011 2:41 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
There is significant evidence, yet still plenty of debate, pointing to the possibility of the Captive being the Gravemind. Some of the more obvious examples include:

--The Flood as ancient humanity knew it was more like the black plague rather then a coordinated alien menace. EG: no Gravemind.

--Both Captive and the Mind had been alone with Medicant Bias for 43 years, after which time, in both cases, Bias turns on the Forerunners.

--Captive states the Flood is the Precursor's answer to the Forerunner's alleged overthrowing of the Precursors. It is likely he is the one leading the Flood.

It is likely the Captive infects himself and becomes the Gravemind, if he isn't already in control. This does not negate the possibility he is a Precursor though.
I like where you are going with that last comment. But there is %100 evidence of it being a Precursor though. Considering it says "I am the last Precursor.

  • 02.07.2011 2:44 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

So that's it? Just one idea as to how this could be played out? I expected a little more creativity from you people.

[Edited on 02.07.2011 3:25 PM PST]

  • 02.07.2011 3:20 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.

Sometimes people can't come up with a lot of stuff.

  • 02.07.2011 3:21 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Posted by: Caaaarrrl
Sometimes people can't come up with a lot of stuff.
You must be new here. This is the Universe forum. Theories about the most wild things in the Haloverse are posted here all the time.

  • 02.07.2011 3:26 PM PDT

117

captive is not a gravemind because the gravemind form of flood is a "pure form" flood, infact during the forerunner/flood war there were multiple graveminds and the 1 in h3 was a new 1, so there isnt THE gravemind cuz ther isnt jus 1 that exsisted...but this off topic; any way how duz captive description anywhere close 2 gravemind? graveminds are large stalks (sumtimes up ta 3on 1 gm)with long tentacles and a clam-like "head" used to talk. i found this forum looking for a picture of da captive and also it had sed "i am the last of those your race rose up againsts and ruthlessly destroyed. i am the last precursor. and our answer is at hand". no way it flood...

  • 02.18.2011 3:11 PM PDT

Never say you're bored. Never say you're satisfied with the world. Never stop doubting or questioning things. Always wonder. Always think. But always take time to drop your guard, you don't have to be smart all the time.

As we know he is a precursor, the fact might be actully the precursor's doing alone (notice 's)

[Edited on 02.18.2011 3:37 PM PST]

  • 02.18.2011 3:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Bobvob
  • user homepage:


Posted by: dacheef228
captive is not a gravemind because the gravemind form of flood is a "pure form" flood, infact during the forerunner/flood war there were multiple graveminds and the 1 in h3 was a new 1, so there isnt THE gravemind cuz ther isnt jus 1 that exsisted...but this off topic; any way how duz captive description anywhere close 2 gravemind? graveminds are large stalks (sumtimes up ta 3on 1 gm)with long tentacles and a clam-like "head" used to talk. i found this forum looking for a picture of da captive and also it had sed "i am the last of those your race rose up againsts and ruthlessly destroyed. i am the last precursor. and our answer is at hand". no way it flood...


I think we're talking about the trilogy's gravemind personalty being The Captive. There can be multiple Graveminds, but they seem to develop around a core (y'know, like that big brain thing Keyes was stuck in.) The guy stuck under Delta Halo just happens to be a gravemind born of the last precursor.

Also, gravy's last words mention you unjustly "sentancing" him. This makes the prisoner parallels pretty obvious, if you ask me.

  • 02.18.2011 4:06 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

I do not think that the Captive is a Precursor. It is a prisoner; incarcerated in a nigh-impenetrable prison which means it has probably been very bad. I am not so sure that its words should be taken so seriously.

That is not the main reason though. For the Forerunner to have destroyed the Precursor they would have to have been much greater than what they are during the time of Cryptum. It does not make sense since they remember themselves rising from their homeworld on Ghibalb and have their entire history in the domain. Surely they would know about any gaps in their history and periods of decline. A comparison against Humanity defeating the Covenant is not really any good because the UNSC could destroy and use Covenant technology. The Forerunners could do neither to Precursor. The technology gap is much larger.

Why would the Precursor contradict their own Mantle and damn billions of innocent lives of an entire galaxy because of the actions of a single race?

The ships that the Flood arrived on where described as being primitive, not of the standard one would expect coming from the Precursor.

The Captive may be a third party, along with the Flood. I think it is probable that the Captive becomes the Gravemind, so perhaps he is associated with the Flood alone and not the Precursor?

  • 02.18.2011 5:14 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Bobvob
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Lyth Raparos
We already mentioned a quote from that book saying he's the Precursor.

Why would the Precursor contradict their own Mantle and damn billions of innocent lives of an entire galaxy because of the actions of a single race?

Because they're that badass? =D?

I strongly believe the The Captive is a Precursor. With that said, if he is a GraveMind, where are his intentions of spreading his plague? It's a compulsion, a GraveMind does not think about it, it merely does.



I'm pretty sure it's more like "The captive becomes a Gravemind" - not that he is one from the start.

  • 02.18.2011 6:36 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Lyth Raparos
We already mentioned a quote from that book saying he's the Precursor.

I am still waiting for you to explain why that quote has any pertinence given the contradictions it implies.

Posted by: Lyth Raparos
Why would the Precursor contradict their own Mantle and damn billions of innocent lives of an entire galaxy because of the actions of a single race?
Because they're that badass? =D?

That merely sounds like "for the hell of it". What is their justification?

There are a few things that do not make sense just now for it to obviously be a Precursor. I am sure a murderer in a prison would say he is innocent; a lie. I mean, the only evidence is the testament of something that was locked away for millennia because it was considered extremely dangerous. Do you not think that this thing maybe has a way with words when it can make people commit suicide?

  • 02.18.2011 7:10 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: anton1792

I was wondering about this recently. One of the things that came to mind could be that the Prisoner is in fact the last Precursor, but only in regards to our galaxy. However, after the Forerunner-Precursor war some of the surviving Precursor fled the galaxy in order to implement their plan of unleashing the Flood as a biological weapon. Now seeing as the Precursor were believed to be upholders of the Mantle, this knowing destruction of life seems against their moral ethics. But what if their was a divide? Perhaps some Precursor didn't agree with releasing the Flood, one such as the Prisoner. In order to prevent the Prisoner attempting to put a stop to his more vindictive brethren's plans he was imprisoned, left in the galaxy to die or watch as the Forerunner destroyed. It would explain why it was held captive by Precursor technology, something that humans and Forerunner could not create or wield.

However, you do bring up a good point about the Forerunner domain and their memory of rising to power. It is strange that they are seemingly unaware of the alleged slaughter of the Precursor. I'll have to have a think about that one.

  • 02.19.2011 6:38 AM PDT


Posted by: matman25402
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
There is significant evidence, yet still plenty of debate, pointing to the possibility of the Captive being the Gravemind. Some of the more obvious examples include:

--The Flood as ancient humanity knew it was more like the black plague rather then a coordinated alien menace. EG: no Gravemind.

--Both Captive and the Mind had been alone with Medicant Bias for 43 years, after which time, in both cases, Bias turns on the Forerunners.

--Captive states the Flood is the Precursor's answer to the Forerunner's alleged overthrowing of the Precursors. It is likely he is the one leading the Flood.

It is likely the Captive infects himself and becomes the Gravemind, if he isn't already in control. This does not negate the possibility he is a Precursor though.
I like where you are going with that last comment. But there is %100 evidence of it being a Precursor though. Considering it says "I am the last Precursor.


In that regard, then there is 100% evidence to prove that the Gravemind and the Flood are the ultimate stage in evolutionary advancement and we must all bow down before him.

If the Captive is the Mind, do not trust anything he says; take everything with a grain of salt.

  • 02.19.2011 7:51 AM PDT


Posted by: dacheef228
captive is not a gravemind because the gravemind form of flood is a "pure form" flood, infact during the forerunner/flood war there were multiple graveminds and the 1 in h3 was a new 1, so there isnt THE gravemind cuz ther isnt jus 1 that exsisted...but this off topic; any way how duz captive description anywhere close 2 gravemind? graveminds are large stalks (sumtimes up ta 3on 1 gm)with long tentacles and a clam-like "head" used to talk. i found this forum looking for a picture of da captive and also it had sed "i am the last of those your race rose up againsts and ruthlessly destroyed. i am the last precursor. and our answer is at hand". no way it flood...


Wrong. The Encyclopedia states there can be only one Gravemind at a time, with each one sharing the same consciousness.

In fact, Mind isn't even a Pure Flood. He technically hs no corporeal body. Notice how no matter how many times we nuke him, sterilize him, and vaporize him, he always returns?

He exists as consciousness, with the Flood being extensions of himself into the physical world. That thing in Halo 2 is merely an organ he uses to speak verbally.

  • 02.19.2011 7:54 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Honorable Member

A Hobo Panda

"The Captive" is in fact Gravemind. In the end ( <---Linkin Park Song? ) Gravemind reveals to the Didact, in Bornstellar's memory of the Didact, that he IS the last Precursor. Gravemind is a Flood, because he is a large collection of them, put together to make him, the controller of the Flood. Therefore, he is both Flood and Precursor. He doesn't have to be infected. He could be one of the many races of Precursor, just like there are many races of humans.

  • 02.19.2011 8:10 AM PDT

I personally don't believe that the last precursor is the original gravemind but it does fit with the precursors mantle, as the gravemind of the trilogy does say that the flood is the next step in evolution and is in fact breathing life into the entire galaxy (albeit only one form of life)

  • 02.19.2011 8:54 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: guiltyspark004
I personally don't believe that the last precursor is the original gravemind but it does fit with the precursors mantle, as the gravemind of the trilogy does say that the flood is the next step in evolution and is in fact breathing life into the entire galaxy (albeit only one form of life)


There is only one gravemind.

  • 02.19.2011 9:59 AM PDT

I just finished Cryptum a few minutes ago actually, but i've been really studying all Halo's mysteries since the release of the first game, including ilovebees, the novels, secrets, and everything else...and i'll just say i think we're all amazed at the ingenious storyline bungie has created.

With huge mysteries such as this come great amounts of speculation, and that's of course all any of us are doing. So i have two theories, one pretty normal, and the second a little farfetched, but plausible.

The first possibility is that the Precursor captive is in some relation, the Gravemind. My personal thoughts have been that he is an infected Precursor. He is quarantined in order to stop the threat of the flood which would be genius irony because of the Forerunners defeating the Precursors in a secret two front war with the Flood just as they did to the humans. Sure, it's a possibility that they sent the ships of powder to destinations where they would presumably be discovered by Forerunners. But that really isnt very logical. A race as powerful as the Precursors (in my mind) would have a much better plan of action/retaliation than something so primitive. And as stated previously, why would they want to destroy their own Mantle?

Now, wrap your head around this. All these explanations are great and all, but the captive said "We meet again, young one. I am the last of those who gave you breath and shape and form millions of years ago. I am the last of those your kind rose up and ruthlessly destroyed. I am the last Precursor. And our answer is at hand." Now that would be pretty damn scary, im sure. But in reality, scary enough to lock away and place such protection over? Really, what caused the humans to put a timelock on this guy. Here we go: My theory is that the precursors are human. Sound crazy? It probably is, but hear me out. The similarities in the Precursors and Humans are undeniable. Irony was placed in some strange places, along with insinuations. The humans are the only ones who manage to figure out how to activate Precursor artifacts. The Didact himself communicates with the captive through HUMAN technology, not Forerunner. The humans figured out how to destroy the flood without the use of any Halos. The humans fiercely destroyed the flood and fought hard against the Forerunners on a two front war. Many instances show that the Humans are actually quite possibly stronger than the Forerunners, and moreso the true inheritors of the Mantle. Why are Riser and Chakas so important? Notice how those two are the key to saving the universe. Notice how dear the Librarian holds Humans compared to Sans-Shyuum, Sangheili, or even her own kind. Why can humans access Forerunner artifacts in present day Halo events, but not the Covenant or any of their races. What is so important about this race? The precursor is described as a "badly misshapen human"...maybe a Flood form. The Precursor claims the Forerunners rose up and ruthlessly destroyed them...but supposedly the Precursor artifacts are beyond the Forerunners means to even penetrate or harm...how could they be defeated by them...and why is this not mentioned before? The only race that reaches comparison of ruthless destruction are the Humans. The Forerunners ruthlessly destroyed them. The book closes with the Didact (Bornstellar) beginning his search for the humans (Riser and Chakas)....and the line "Our answer is at hand." I dont think he is referring to only the Flood. I think his answer is much to big for us to speculate on right now.

  • 04.12.2011 7:11 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2