Bungie Universe
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  • Subject: Its Bungie's canon.
Subject: Its Bungie's canon.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Bungie writes the Halo Story Bible.

Eric Nylund recieves the HSB while writing the novels (as do all authors).

All stories and events prexist within the HSB, (including the fall of Reach) or are otherwise added for specifics sake.

Bungie releases Halo Reach

Halo Reach contradicts established canon.

Established canon is recorded in the HSB

Bungie wrote the HSB.

Bungie broke canon.

Let me explain. I used to think the rest of TFoR was okay even with Reach, but now, I'm not so sure.

The battle of Reach happened directly because of Sigma Octanus IV. One could argue Sigma IV was the turning point of the war since what it lead too.

Sigma IV ends on July 18th, with the UNSC victorious on all accounts, a much needed victory. The UNSC Iriquois , Commanded by the new Captain Jacob Keyes, is unaware of a Covenant spy drone attached to its hull.

As per the Cole Protocol, they would have had to jump several times to get to Reach, in order to throw any suspected Covenant off. They already purged their NAV data.

Human slip jumps take days, weeks or even months to get to their destinations. So lets say the Iriquois gets back a week later, on July 25th (if this is already wrong, please let me know).

In Halo: Reach canon, the Covenant found Reach on July 27th, two days after Keyes returned home. The only way this could work is if the Covenant formulated an entire Supercarrier crew and Corvette fleet to arrive at Reach within two days. This would make Covie slip technology nearly instantanious; I already find it hard to believe the Covies organized an entire scouting fleet within two days let alone do all of that AND still get to Reach in two days.

Under the H:R canon, the only easily understandable way for the Covies to have gotten to Reach in the time they did was if they got there before the Iriquois to look for Forerunner artifacts (the game's reason for their arrival). This ultimately renders the Sigma IV battle pointless, even nonexistant.

Here's why: The battle was fought for the sole purpose of uncovering a Forerunner artifact that would lead to other artifacts, including Halo. The only way the Covies could have known there was a Forerunner ruin on Reach was if something else told them. The only other thing that had the ability to do this was the Sigma Crystal.

However, Halsey states at the end of the game that it was because of Noble 6's actions in delivering Cortana that they found Halo, not the crystal.

This means the crystal was never found. Which makes the battle of Sigma IV most likely nonexistant, which makes the spy probe nonexistant which contradicts the entire battle of Reach's existance.

This would also indicate the Iriquois was never relevant, Captain Keyes (who was chosen to lead the Pillar of Autumn because of his brilliance at the battle of Sigma IV) never pulled the Keyes loop, and was never chosen to Captain the Pillar of Autumn, making the last Act of Halo: Reach impossible.

Now I know this isn't perfect (the above summary), and I know the journal probably clears a lot up, but it does beg a lot of questions. If this turns out to be how Bungie intended it to be, this is just wrong. It ruins the entire second half of TFoR, let alone the epic date discrepancies, AND contradicts their own game.


The Cortana fragment, if you hadn't known, was studying the Forerunner artifacts. Including the crystal. When merged she had all that info.

As for scouting fleet, makes sense. I'd gather one specifically as soon as the spy probe latched onto the ship hull.

  • 02.09.2011 2:23 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Bungie writes the Halo Story Bible.

Eric Nylund recieves the HSB while writing the novels (as do all authors).

All stories and events prexist within the HSB, (including the fall of Reach) or are otherwise added for specifics sake.

Bungie releases Halo Reach

Halo Reach contradicts established canon.

Established canon is recorded in the HSB

Bungie wrote the HSB.

Bungie broke canon.

Let me explain. I used to think the rest of TFoR was okay even with Reach, but now, I'm not so sure.

The battle of Reach happened directly because of Sigma Octanus IV. One could argue Sigma IV was the turning point of the war since what it lead too.

Sigma IV ends on July 18th, with the UNSC victorious on all accounts, a much needed victory. The UNSC Iriquois , Commanded by the new Captain Jacob Keyes, is unaware of a Covenant spy drone attached to its hull.

As per the Cole Protocol, they would have had to jump several times to get to Reach, in order to throw any suspected Covenant off. They already purged their NAV data.

Human slip jumps take days, weeks or even months to get to their destinations. So lets say the Iriquois gets back a week later, on July 25th (if this is already wrong, please let me know).

In Halo: Reach canon, the Covenant found Reach on July 27th, two days after Keyes returned home. The only way this could work is if the Covenant formulated an entire Supercarrier crew and Corvette fleet to arrive at Reach within two days. This would make Covie slip technology nearly instantanious; I already find it hard to believe the Covies organized an entire scouting fleet within two days let alone do all of that AND still get to Reach in two days.

Under the H:R canon, the only easily understandable way for the Covies to have gotten to Reach in the time they did was if they got there before the Iriquois to look for Forerunner artifacts (the game's reason for their arrival). This ultimately renders the Sigma IV battle pointless, even nonexistant.

Here's why: The battle was fought for the sole purpose of uncovering a Forerunner artifact that would lead to other artifacts, including Halo. The only way the Covies could have known there was a Forerunner ruin on Reach was if something else told them. The only other thing that had the ability to do this was the Sigma Crystal.

However, Halsey states at the end of the game that it was because of Noble 6's actions in delivering Cortana that they found Halo, not the crystal.

This means the crystal was never found. Which makes the battle of Sigma IV most likely nonexistant, which makes the spy probe nonexistant which contradicts the entire battle of Reach's existance.

This would also indicate the Iriquois was never relevant, Captain Keyes (who was chosen to lead the Pillar of Autumn because of his brilliance at the battle of Sigma IV) never pulled the Keyes loop, and was never chosen to Captain the Pillar of Autumn, making the last Act of Halo: Reach impossible.

Now I know this isn't perfect (the above summary), and I know the journal probably clears a lot up, but it does beg a lot of questions. If this turns out to be how Bungie intended it to be, this is just wrong. It ruins the entire second half of TFoR, let alone the epic date discrepancies, AND contradicts their own game.


The Cortana fragment, if you hadn't known, was studying the Forerunner artifacts. Including the crystal. When merged she had all that info.

As for scouting fleet, makes sense. I'd gather one specifically as soon as the spy probe latched onto the ship hull.


My question is, how did the scout fleet get throught all off Reaches defenses? It just doesn't make sense that several warships could get through such a blockade.

  • 02.09.2011 2:27 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Bungie writes the Halo Story Bible.

Eric Nylund recieves the HSB while writing the novels (as do all authors).

All stories and events prexist within the HSB, (including the fall of Reach) or are otherwise added for specifics sake.

Bungie releases Halo Reach

Halo Reach contradicts established canon.

Established canon is recorded in the HSB

Bungie wrote the HSB.

Bungie broke canon.

Let me explain. I used to think the rest of TFoR was okay even with Reach, but now, I'm not so sure.

The battle of Reach happened directly because of Sigma Octanus IV. One could argue Sigma IV was the turning point of the war since what it lead too.

Sigma IV ends on July 18th, with the UNSC victorious on all accounts, a much needed victory. The UNSC Iriquois , Commanded by the new Captain Jacob Keyes, is unaware of a Covenant spy drone attached to its hull.

As per the Cole Protocol, they would have had to jump several times to get to Reach, in order to throw any suspected Covenant off. They already purged their NAV data.

Human slip jumps take days, weeks or even months to get to their destinations. So lets say the Iriquois gets back a week later, on July 25th (if this is already wrong, please let me know).

In Halo: Reach canon, the Covenant found Reach on July 27th, two days after Keyes returned home. The only way this could work is if the Covenant formulated an entire Supercarrier crew and Corvette fleet to arrive at Reach within two days. This would make Covie slip technology nearly instantanious; I already find it hard to believe the Covies organized an entire scouting fleet within two days let alone do all of that AND still get to Reach in two days.

Under the H:R canon, the only easily understandable way for the Covies to have gotten to Reach in the time they did was if they got there before the Iriquois to look for Forerunner artifacts (the game's reason for their arrival). This ultimately renders the Sigma IV battle pointless, even nonexistant.

Here's why: The battle was fought for the sole purpose of uncovering a Forerunner artifact that would lead to other artifacts, including Halo. The only way the Covies could have known there was a Forerunner ruin on Reach was if something else told them. The only other thing that had the ability to do this was the Sigma Crystal.

However, Halsey states at the end of the game that it was because of Noble 6's actions in delivering Cortana that they found Halo, not the crystal.

This means the crystal was never found. Which makes the battle of Sigma IV most likely nonexistant, which makes the spy probe nonexistant which contradicts the entire battle of Reach's existance.

This would also indicate the Iriquois was never relevant, Captain Keyes (who was chosen to lead the Pillar of Autumn because of his brilliance at the battle of Sigma IV) never pulled the Keyes loop, and was never chosen to Captain the Pillar of Autumn, making the last Act of Halo: Reach impossible.

Now I know this isn't perfect (the above summary), and I know the journal probably clears a lot up, but it does beg a lot of questions. If this turns out to be how Bungie intended it to be, this is just wrong. It ruins the entire second half of TFoR, let alone the epic date discrepancies, AND contradicts their own game.


The Cortana fragment, if you hadn't known, was studying the Forerunner artifacts. Including the crystal. When merged she had all that info.

As for scouting fleet, makes sense. I'd gather one specifically as soon as the spy probe latched onto the ship hull.



1) We don't know what the Cortana fragment was studying. As a matter of fact, it wasn't the fragment that saw the crystal, it was the original Cortana (at least in TFoR). All Halsey says is that because the fragment was studying the Forerunner ruins, and you delivered her to the PoA, they found Halo.

2) Gather a group, fine, maybe, but get to a planet that is as far away from Covie territory as possible within two days? Before you even really know where it is?

I still find it hard to believe.

Also, the PoA could not have landed on the ground. For one, Halcyon ships are not atmosphere compatible. Only Frigates are. Second, it is never mentioned in TFoR that they ever landed; they just picked up the Chief and got the hell out.

  • 02.09.2011 2:31 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Bungie writes the Halo Story Bible.

Eric Nylund recieves the HSB while writing the novels (as do all authors).

All stories and events prexist within the HSB, (including the fall of Reach) or are otherwise added for specifics sake.

Bungie releases Halo Reach

Halo Reach contradicts established canon.

Established canon is recorded in the HSB

Bungie wrote the HSB.

Bungie broke canon.

Let me explain. I used to think the rest of TFoR was okay even with Reach, but now, I'm not so sure.

The battle of Reach happened directly because of Sigma Octanus IV. One could argue Sigma IV was the turning point of the war since what it lead too.

Sigma IV ends on July 18th, with the UNSC victorious on all accounts, a much needed victory. The UNSC Iriquois , Commanded by the new Captain Jacob Keyes, is unaware of a Covenant spy drone attached to its hull.

As per the Cole Protocol, they would have had to jump several times to get to Reach, in order to throw any suspected Covenant off. They already purged their NAV data.

Human slip jumps take days, weeks or even months to get to their destinations. So lets say the Iriquois gets back a week later, on July 25th (if this is already wrong, please let me know).

In Halo: Reach canon, the Covenant found Reach on July 27th, two days after Keyes returned home. The only way this could work is if the Covenant formulated an entire Supercarrier crew and Corvette fleet to arrive at Reach within two days. This would make Covie slip technology nearly instantanious; I already find it hard to believe the Covies organized an entire scouting fleet within two days let alone do all of that AND still get to Reach in two days.

Under the H:R canon, the only easily understandable way for the Covies to have gotten to Reach in the time they did was if they got there before the Iriquois to look for Forerunner artifacts (the game's reason for their arrival). This ultimately renders the Sigma IV battle pointless, even nonexistant.

Here's why: The battle was fought for the sole purpose of uncovering a Forerunner artifact that would lead to other artifacts, including Halo. The only way the Covies could have known there was a Forerunner ruin on Reach was if something else told them. The only other thing that had the ability to do this was the Sigma Crystal.

However, Halsey states at the end of the game that it was because of Noble 6's actions in delivering Cortana that they found Halo, not the crystal.

This means the crystal was never found. Which makes the battle of Sigma IV most likely nonexistant, which makes the spy probe nonexistant which contradicts the entire battle of Reach's existance.

This would also indicate the Iriquois was never relevant, Captain Keyes (who was chosen to lead the Pillar of Autumn because of his brilliance at the battle of Sigma IV) never pulled the Keyes loop, and was never chosen to Captain the Pillar of Autumn, making the last Act of Halo: Reach impossible.

Now I know this isn't perfect (the above summary), and I know the journal probably clears a lot up, but it does beg a lot of questions. If this turns out to be how Bungie intended it to be, this is just wrong. It ruins the entire second half of TFoR, let alone the epic date discrepancies, AND contradicts their own game.


The Cortana fragment, if you hadn't known, was studying the Forerunner artifacts. Including the crystal. When merged she had all that info.

As for scouting fleet, makes sense. I'd gather one specifically as soon as the spy probe latched onto the ship hull.



1) We don't know what the Cortana fragment was studying. As a matter of fact, it wasn't the fragment that saw the crystal, it was the original Cortana (at least in TFoR). All Halsey says is that because the fragment was studying the Forerunner ruins, and you delivered her to the PoA, they found Halo.

2) Gather a group, fine, maybe, but get to a planet that is as far away from Covie territory as possible within two days? Before you even really know where it is?

I still find it hard to believe.

Also, the PoA could not have landed on the ground. For one, Halcyon ships are not atmosphere compatible. Only Frigates are. Second, it is never mentioned in TFoR that they ever landed; they just picked up the Chief and got the hell out.

Sorry Dae Faron, I think you just met your match with this guy. Or maybe not...? (Grabs Popcorn.)

  • 02.09.2011 2:34 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
I am really tired of people like Private caboose saying Bungie broke canon.


Why hello to you too.

Why should the books over-rule the story that Bungie created? Why is it up to the fanbase to decide what is canon and what isn't?


Bungie created the books too, you know. Joe Staten, you've heard him right, the guy in charge of Halo 3, and ODST's campaign story? Yeah, he wrote one of the novels himself.

The book canon and the game canon were one in the same, until Reach...

  • 02.09.2011 2:38 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
1) We don't know what the Cortana fragment was studying. As a matter of fact, it wasn't the fragment that saw the crystal, it was the original Cortana (at least in TFoR). All Halsey says is that because the fragment was studying the Forerunner ruins, and you delivered her to the PoA, they found Halo.

2) Gather a group, fine, maybe, but get to a planet that is as far away from Covie territory as possible within two days? Before you even really know where it is?

I still find it hard to believe.

Also, the PoA could not have landed on the ground. For one, Halcyon ships are not atmosphere compatible. Only Frigates are. Second, it is never mentioned in TFoR that they ever landed; they just picked up the Chief and got the hell out.


1) We know she was studying forerunner data, as well as the information from the Relay. That said, the 'Original' Cortana, aka the bulk of her which was with Chief through the events before leaving Reach. (Aka, the armor testing and such. Meaning that portion could have easily studied the crystal from the recordings or whatever.)

2)I doubt the Covenant stayed way back from the lines. This group was probably launched from a fleet that was within the Inner Colony borders because that was what the Covenant were attacking by that time of the war.

Final statement: "Rated for Atmosphere" is NEVER explained. As far as I take it? It means "Can manuever and perform actions in atmosphere." Such as the frigates in Tip of the Spear providing heavy fire support, or the frigates in Halo 3 attacking the keyship.

So, to me, the Pillar of Autumn could have landed, with some assistance. A quick landing or take off? No. Hovering in the atmosphere like the frigates? No. As I have said, I'll give the "PoA landing is weird." one to you all.

Posted by: TheIntergalactic
My question is, how did the scout fleet get throught all off Reaches defenses? It just doesn't make sense that several warships could get through such a blockade.


Well, the book makes the defenses sound as the super-mac platforms were all in a single area in orbit, and not surrounding the planet as with Earth.

[Edited on 02.09.2011 2:49 PM PST]

  • 02.09.2011 2:49 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
1) We don't know what the Cortana fragment was studying. As a matter of fact, it wasn't the fragment that saw the crystal, it was the original Cortana (at least in TFoR). All Halsey says is that because the fragment was studying the Forerunner ruins, and you delivered her to the PoA, they found Halo.

2) Gather a group, fine, maybe, but get to a planet that is as far away from Covie territory as possible within two days? Before you even really know where it is?

I still find it hard to believe.

Also, the PoA could not have landed on the ground. For one, Halcyon ships are not atmosphere compatible. Only Frigates are. Second, it is never mentioned in TFoR that they ever landed; they just picked up the Chief and got the hell out.


1) We know she was studying forerunner data, as well as the information from the Relay. That said, the 'Original' Cortana, aka the bulk of her which was with Chief through the events before leaving Reach. (Aka, the armor testing and such. Meaning that portion could have easily studied the crystal from the recordings or whatever.)

2)I doubt the Covenant stayed way back from the lines. This group was probably launched from a fleet that was within the Inner Colony borders because that was what the Covenant were attacking by that time of the war.

Final statement: "Rated for Atmosphere" is NEVER explained. As far as I take it? It means "Can manuever and perform actions in atmosphere." Such as the frigates in Tip of the Spear providing heavy fire support, or the frigates in Halo 3 attacking the keyship.

So, to me, the Pillar of Autumn could have landed, with some assistance. A quick landing or take off? No. Hovering in the atmosphere like the frigates? No. As I have said, I'll give the "PoA landing is weird." one to you all.

Posted by: TheIntergalactic
My question is, how did the scout fleet get throught all off Reaches defenses? It just doesn't make sense that several warships could get through such a blockade.


Well, the book makes the defenses sound as the super-mac platforms were all in a single area in orbit, and not surrounding the planet as with Earth.


I don't deny these are possibilities. What pisses me off is that we have to discuss them as possible patches for canon breaks in the first place.

Its all well and good to come up with reasons for why -blam!- happened, but ultimately its just us trying to justify what ammounts to no apparent regard to canon.

The primary problem is that we DON'T have an answer anymore. Its one thing to retcon, but something else entirely to not know what's what, when, why and how anymore. The very fact we're having this conversation is because there is an obvious break in canon that is not explained by either Bungie, the game itself, or 343i as of yet.

I don't think it'll be settled until it is made clear cut by 343i just what the hell happened in Reach. The Covenant being on Reach for a full month is a series break in canon itself, all for the sole reason because Bungie has an obsession with the number 7, and July is "their" month. I can understand the whole 7 thing as a joke, but when it comes down to breaking canon you established and that we've known for 9 whole years, lay off the jokes and get serious.

So we can debate and discuss over what's what, but no matter who you are, you cannot deny that there is some serious explaining to be done with these breaks.

So by all means, let's talk about the breaks and try to justify them. Does it make us fell better? Yes. Does it ammount to anything?

No.

  • 02.09.2011 3:02 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Spartan III training, they modify their armor to suit their needs.

How did Halsey act weird? She didn't trust Noble Team because she knew they were Spartans, but not her Spartans. That and Carter+Kat weren't the kindest to her either. Notice how she acted much differently toward Jorge? Once she learned more about the spartan IIIs (at castle base in First Strike) she then wanted to pull them from the war.

As I said, the PoA landed is about the only one I'll give you. Also, it was fighting a super-cruiser, not a carrier. The first super-carrier to show up in halo universe thus far is the Long Night of Solace.

To last comment, the higher up in special ops you go, the more different they act compared to an average soldier. I'm pretty sure you see a high level squad looking much different then an average one in terms of gear and appearance.


So the other teams didn't need special gears for their very special missions? What needed Noble team that Gray Team and Black Team didn't have? Despite that Gray and Black teams are Spartans II and more valuable than a bunch of Spartans III?

When Dr. Halsey encountered Spartans III she treated them just like her Spartans II and believe me Spartans are not sweet candy, Carter and Kat's behavior are not harder than other and more battered Spartans II (Kurt's attitude is way harder than Kat's and Carter's)

Plus Linda wasn't so much different from Kat with the Spartans III when she arrived at Onyx.

[Edited on 02.09.2011 4:02 PM PST]

  • 02.09.2011 4:01 PM PDT

"Once Bungie takes over the world, The Marty Army will take over Bungie and then we'll really have some fun."
-Marty O'Donnell

"Condemnant quod non intellegunt."

Make Bungie.net More Enjoyable: Read & Follow

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
I am really tired of people like Private caboose saying Bungie broke canon.

Why should the books over-rule the story that Bungie created? Why is it up to the fanbase to decide what is canon and what isn't?


Bungie made the god-damn story. And what's really sad is, with a few minor changes, both the Game and the Book can live in harmony.

I have rigorously prepared extensive proof that the canon does not fall into the control of or "belong" to any manifesting agent. Inaccuracies and contradictions are merely artifacts of imperfect manifestation, which is inevitable as imperfect human beings.

The True Halo Canon already exists in harmony, we just are assigned to find and discover that canon which, even in the face of confused areas and inconsistencies, is rarely a task that is difficult as to exceed the employment of common sense. I had really hoped my "treatise" would be a once-and-for-all answer to these types of threads; I've addressed perhaps every argument stated in this course of discussion.

  • 02.09.2011 6:37 PM PDT


Posted by: the real Janaka

Posted by: ajw34307
Bungie created the Halo Story Bible, in which all of Halo's canonical information is documented. The novels were all written with reference to this document, Reach breaks the canon of the novels and therefore cannot be official canon because it didn't adhere to the HSB.

Pvt Caboose is well within his rights to say Reach was bollocks. I'm frankly sick of Bungie fanboys defending everything Bungie do wrong simply because they made the Halo games.

This is my hear hear! of the day.


Hear hear!

  • 02.09.2011 6:52 PM PDT

I've been reading the debate going on about the Covenant finding Reach, I have a couple theories that are plenty plausible.

Two separate groups find Reach, a small force finds Forerunner stuff detected on Reach through the Luminary, or whatever it is that they use can't remember its name, find out about the human presence there, but don't know how big it is, then the Iroquois returns to Reach from the battle of Sigma Octanus IV, the Covenant finds out that Reach is a human "homeworld" because the Iroquois returned there, and they then send the Super Carrier and more ships there to prepare for the main fleet's arrival and to soften up the UNSC's defenses. The Fleet of Particular Justice is assembled and arrives at Reach on the 14th of August.

Or the Covenant found out about Reach through the Sigma Octanus "Rock" before Keyes cut off their information gathering during the Battle of Sigma Octanus IV, and a small force was dispatched, they found a human presence there and the Super Carrier was dispatched to combat the humans, and they find out upon arrival that the human presence is stronger than thought, and with Iroquois returning to Reach after the previous battle indicating this as a Human homeworld they changed the LNOS objective to preparing for the arrival of the Fleet of Particular Justice, which arrives on the 14th, and then the second half of Reach plays out as well as the tail end of TFoR.

  • 02.09.2011 7:37 PM PDT


Posted by: MasterSin

Spartan III training, they modify their armor to suit their needs.

How did Halsey act weird? She didn't trust Noble Team because she knew they were Spartans, but not her Spartans. That and Carter+Kat weren't the kindest to her either. Notice how she acted much differently toward Jorge? Once she learned more about the spartan IIIs (at castle base in First Strike) she then wanted to pull them from the war.

As I said, the PoA landed is about the only one I'll give you. Also, it was fighting a super-cruiser, not a carrier. The first super-carrier to show up in halo universe thus far is the Long Night of Solace.

To last comment, the higher up in special ops you go, the more different they act compared to an average soldier. I'm pretty sure you see a high level squad looking much different then an average one in terms of gear and appearance.


So the other teams didn't need special gears for their very special missions? What needed Noble team that Gray Team and Black Team didn't have? Despite that Gray and Black teams are Spartans II and more valuable than a bunch of Spartans III?

When Dr. Halsey encountered Spartans III she treated them just like her Spartans II and believe me Spartans are not sweet candy, Carter and Kat's behavior are not harder than other and more battered Spartans II (Kurt's attitude is way harder than Kat's and Carter's)

Plus Linda wasn't so much different from Kat with the Spartans III when she arrived at Onyx.


Grey Team : Mark IV armor, far behind enemy lines. If you look, their Mark IV armor is different then the standard Mark IV.
Black Team : Had prototype Mark VI armor.

Also, Spartan II does not auto = more valuable then a Spartan III. The augmentations? Basically the same results. Training? Spartan III training was better. (Kurt and Mendez both knew the Spartan II training, cut the crap from it and made it better. If you think they can't, lol.) Armor? Worse. that is the major factor. If they had Mark IV in the suicide missions, it would have ended much differently. If 300 Spartan II's had SPI and put on those missions, you would have the same end results.

When Dr. Halsey encountered Spartan IIIs on Onyx, she knew what they were, who they were, and what she had planned. When she met Noble team she knew they were Spartans, but not who created them, or who they were. Thus, she didn't trust them. Also, look at when Carter and Halsey were talking. "You followed orders to the letter, and didn't stop to take out a single elite. Are you a puppet?" then "Oh, we could send you to the brig Halsey, trying to mess with Spartans." No Spartan II would treat her like that. Thus she didn't trust Noble Team at first and definitely didn't treat them as she did the others. Notice when She meets the Gamma company ones, they all treat her with respect do to seeing how Kurt treated her.

  • 02.09.2011 7:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.

Caboose is an idiot. People have trouble understanding that it is BUNGIE'S story, not Eric Nylund's. TFoR sucked, so boring, and it was more like "Origins of the Spartans and a Small Chapter for Reach"

  • 02.10.2011 8:40 AM PDT


Posted by: Dark Neptune

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
I am really tired of people like Private caboose saying Bungie broke canon.

Why should the books over-rule the story that Bungie created? Why is it up to the fanbase to decide what is canon and what isn't?


Bungie made the god-damn story. And what's really sad is, with a few minor changes, both the Game and the Book can live in harmony.


Singling out members is already against the forum rules. Pvt. Caboose has been on the forums for years and is a dedicated Halo fan, more so than you, so show some of the respect he deserves, troll.

Reported.

P.S. The books were created by Bungie, but written by different authors who had the Halo Story Bible to reference from. So technically speaking Bungie made the books. If they didn't, the books would have been long rejected as fan-fiction canon.




"respect that he deserves"

No no no, he doesn't deserve anymore respect than any other regular member.

Stop sucking up to him and attempting to speak as if he's better than anyone else.

  • 02.10.2011 8:53 AM PDT


Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
Caboose is an idiot. People have trouble understanding that it is BUNGIE'S story, not Eric Nylund's. TFoR sucked, so boring, and it was more like "Origins of the Spartans and a Small Chapter for Reach"



I agree with this.

His arguments are blinded by nostalgia and his own opinions - Bungie decides the Canon, and they can reconn if they want.

  • 02.10.2011 8:58 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
Caboose is an idiot. People have trouble understanding that it is BUNGIE'S story, not Eric Nylund's. TFoR sucked, so boring, and it was more like "Origins of the Spartans and a Small Chapter for Reach"


I don't see Caboose making alternative accounts to criticise other writers on the Gallery and advertise your stories, hypocrite.

TFOR was infinitely better than Reach. TFOR had character development for the Spartans, telling us their story from when they were 6 years old. Nylund is a fantastic writer, that's why he was contracted to write 2 more novels and a story for Evolutions.

  • 02.10.2011 9:00 AM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
Caboose is an idiot. People have trouble understanding that it is BUNGIE'S story, not Eric Nylund's. TFoR sucked, so boring, and it was more like "Origins of the Spartans and a Small Chapter for Reach"


I don't see Caboose making alternative accounts to criticise other writers on the Gallery and advertise your stories, hypocrite.

TFOR was infinitely better than Reach. TFOR had character development for the Spartans, telling us their story from when they were 6 years old. Nylund is a fantastic writer, that's why he was contracted to write 2 more novels and a story for Evolutions.


If the story is better or not is irrelevant.

I am talking about Bungie's right to change their own story, And I am shocked that forum members think Bungie "broke" canon when infact it is reconning...

  • 02.10.2011 9:03 AM PDT

Love your friends, Die laughing.

Joseph Staten About the Halo Canon

  • 02.10.2011 9:11 AM PDT


Posted by: CLAYsomeMOAR

Posted by: Dark Neptune

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
I am really tired of people like Private caboose saying Bungie broke canon.

Why should the books over-rule the story that Bungie created? Why is it up to the fanbase to decide what is canon and what isn't?


Bungie made the god-damn story. And what's really sad is, with a few minor changes, both the Game and the Book can live in harmony.


Singling out members is already against the forum rules. Pvt. Caboose has been on the forums for years and is a dedicated Halo fan, more so than you, so show some of the respect he deserves, troll.

Reported.

P.S. The books were created by Bungie, but written by different authors who had the Halo Story Bible to reference from. So technically speaking Bungie made the books. If they didn't, the books would have been long rejected as fan-fiction canon.




"respect that he deserves"

No no no, he doesn't deserve anymore respect than any other regular member.

Stop sucking up to him and attempting to speak as if he's better than anyone else.


My lol moment is "More dedicated fan then you are." What decides that I wonder?


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
Caboose is an idiot. People have trouble understanding that it is BUNGIE'S story, not Eric Nylund's. TFoR sucked, so boring, and it was more like "Origins of the Spartans and a Small Chapter for Reach"


I don't see Caboose making alternative accounts to criticize other writers on the Gallery and advertise your stories, hypocrite.

TFOR was infinitely better than Reach. TFOR had character development for the Spartans, telling us their story from when they were 6 years old. Nylund is a fantastic writer, that's why he was contracted to write 2 more novels and a story for Evolutions.


Um... Let's see. TFOR, a novel which spanned from before the human-covenant war to the battle of Reach. DUH It'll be 'better' storywise then Reach, which only covers the battle of Reach, and even then, only a portion of it.

Simple fact buddy. Novels are usually best storywise. Followed by films(normally, sometimes it's other way around). Then you go into games. RPGs are best for campaign. Then you have some RTS games(Starcraft 2's campaign had far more character development then most RTS style games.) Following that? FPS.

Expecting an RPG or Novel style character development in a FPS campaign is like expecting food in a tourist shop. You might get some, yes. But most of the time it won't nearly be as good as if you went to a restaurant.

Course, I always love when somebody goes "I'm a halo fan, and have never seen the halo bible. But I KNOW, without a doubt, that I am right and Bungie -blam!- up." I must ask those people, did you know about Keyes and Halsey having a relationship before Halo Reach? Seeing as that fact was created around halo 2 (when Miranda came to being.) and we just now learned of it, who knows what Bungie is handing to 343 that we don't know about.

  • 02.10.2011 9:17 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: MasterSin

Spartan III training, they modify their armor to suit their needs.

How did Halsey act weird? She didn't trust Noble Team because she knew they were Spartans, but not her Spartans. That and Carter+Kat weren't the kindest to her either. Notice how she acted much differently toward Jorge? Once she learned more about the spartan IIIs (at castle base in First Strike) she then wanted to pull them from the war.

As I said, the PoA landed is about the only one I'll give you. Also, it was fighting a super-cruiser, not a carrier. The first super-carrier to show up in halo universe thus far is the Long Night of Solace.

To last comment, the higher up in special ops you go, the more different they act compared to an average soldier. I'm pretty sure you see a high level squad looking much different then an average one in terms of gear and appearance.


So the other teams didn't need special gears for their very special missions? What needed Noble team that Gray Team and Black Team didn't have? Despite that Gray and Black teams are Spartans II and more valuable than a bunch of Spartans III?

When Dr. Halsey encountered Spartans III she treated them just like her Spartans II and believe me Spartans are not sweet candy, Carter and Kat's behavior are not harder than other and more battered Spartans II (Kurt's attitude is way harder than Kat's and Carter's)

Plus Linda wasn't so much different from Kat with the Spartans III when she arrived at Onyx.


Grey Team : Mark IV armor, far behind enemy lines. If you look, their Mark IV armor is different then the standard Mark IV.
Black Team : Had prototype Mark VI armor.

Also, Spartan II does not auto = more valuable then a Spartan III. The augmentations? Basically the same results. Training? Spartan III training was better. (Kurt and Mendez both knew the Spartan II training, cut the crap from it and made it better. If you think they can't, lol.) Armor? Worse. that is the major factor. If they had Mark IV in the suicide missions, it would have ended much differently. If 300 Spartan II's had SPI and put on those missions, you would have the same end results.

When Dr. Halsey encountered Spartan IIIs on Onyx, she knew what they were, who they were, and what she had planned. When she met Noble team she knew they were Spartans, but not who created them, or who they were. Thus, she didn't trust them. Also, look at when Carter and Halsey were talking. "You followed orders to the letter, and didn't stop to take out a single elite. Are you a puppet?" then "Oh, we could send you to the brig Halsey, trying to mess with Spartans." No Spartan II would treat her like that. Thus she didn't trust Noble Team at first and definitely didn't treat them as she did the others. Notice when She meets the Gamma company ones, they all treat her with respect do to seeing how Kurt treated her.


You definitely know what you're talking about Cmdr. The main difference between the SIIIs and SIIs is the armor, and some minor ones like slightly different, sometimes augmentations that are a little more harmful than good, and combat experience. The different armor and less experience are basically what makes the SIIIs lesser than the SIIs, put them at each other out of armor, it'd probably be a toss-up fight of epic proportions.

Exactly Halsey didn't know anything about Noble Team when she first met them and was suspicious of them because it became obvious to her that ONI was basically stealing her work and excluding her from their Spartan Project, when they had basically told her that any future Spartan projects were aborted because of the costs. And you try being civil if some of your research is witheld and pretty much stolen by one of these said Spartans. Their entire first meeting was hostile because of the circumstances and minor revelations that occurred because of it.

  • 02.10.2011 1:31 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
Caboose is an idiot. People have trouble understanding that it is BUNGIE'S story, not Eric Nylund's. TFoR sucked, so boring, and it was more like "Origins of the Spartans and a Small Chapter for Reach"


I don't see Caboose making alternative accounts to criticise other writers on the Gallery and advertise your stories, hypocrite.

TFOR was infinitely better than Reach. TFOR had character development for the Spartans, telling us their story from when they were 6 years old. Nylund is a fantastic writer, that's why he was contracted to write 2 more novels and a story for Evolutions.


If the story is better or not is irrelevant.

I am talking about Bungie's right to change their own story, And I am shocked that forum members think Bungie "broke" canon when infact it is reconning...

The Halo Story Bible wants a word with you.

P.S. Don't even try to argue about canon with ajw; you'll only make yourself look even more like a fool.

  • 02.10.2011 3:33 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: MasterSin

Spartan III training, they modify their armor to suit their needs.

How did Halsey act weird? She didn't trust Noble Team because she knew they were Spartans, but not her Spartans. That and Carter+Kat weren't the kindest to her either. Notice how she acted much differently toward Jorge? Once she learned more about the spartan IIIs (at castle base in First Strike) she then wanted to pull them from the war.

As I said, the PoA landed is about the only one I'll give you. Also, it was fighting a super-cruiser, not a carrier. The first super-carrier to show up in halo universe thus far is the Long Night of Solace.

To last comment, the higher up in special ops you go, the more different they act compared to an average soldier. I'm pretty sure you see a high level squad looking much different then an average one in terms of gear and appearance.


So the other teams didn't need special gears for their very special missions? What needed Noble team that Gray Team and Black Team didn't have? Despite that Gray and Black teams are Spartans II and more valuable than a bunch of Spartans III?

When Dr. Halsey encountered Spartans III she treated them just like her Spartans II and believe me Spartans are not sweet candy, Carter and Kat's behavior are not harder than other and more battered Spartans II (Kurt's attitude is way harder than Kat's and Carter's)

Plus Linda wasn't so much different from Kat with the Spartans III when she arrived at Onyx.


Grey Team : Mark IV armor, far behind enemy lines. If you look, their Mark IV armor is different then the standard Mark IV.
Black Team : Had prototype Mark VI armor.

Also, Spartan II does not auto = more valuable then a Spartan III. The augmentations? Basically the same results. Training? Spartan III training was better. (Kurt and Mendez both knew the Spartan II training, cut the crap from it and made it better. If you think they can't, lol.) Armor? Worse. that is the major factor. If they had Mark IV in the suicide missions, it would have ended much differently. If 300 Spartan II's had SPI and put on those missions, you would have the same end results.

When Dr. Halsey encountered Spartan IIIs on Onyx, she knew what they were, who they were, and what she had planned. When she met Noble team she knew they were Spartans, but not who created them, or who they were. Thus, she didn't trust them. Also, look at when Carter and Halsey were talking. "You followed orders to the letter, and didn't stop to take out a single elite. Are you a puppet?" then "Oh, we could send you to the brig Halsey, trying to mess with Spartans." No Spartan II would treat her like that. Thus she didn't trust Noble Team at first and definitely didn't treat them as she did the others. Notice when She meets the Gamma company ones, they all treat her with respect do to seeing how Kurt treated her.


You definitely know what you're talking about Cmdr. The main difference between the SIIIs and SIIs is the armor, and some minor ones like slightly different, sometimes augmentations that are a little more harmful than good, and combat experience. The different armor and less experience are basically what makes the SIIIs lesser than the SIIs, put them at each other out of armor, it'd probably be a toss-up fight of epic proportions.

Exactly Halsey didn't know anything about Noble Team when she first met them and was suspicious of them because it became obvious to her that ONI was basically stealing her work and excluding her from their Spartan Project, when they had basically told her that any future Spartan projects were aborted because of the costs. And you try being civil if some of your research is witheld and pretty much stolen by one of these said Spartans. Their entire first meeting was hostile because of the circumstances and minor revelations that occurred because of it.

Oh no, there's so much more to the S-II's than the S-III's besides MJOLNIR. There's a reason one class was mass-produced.

  • 02.10.2011 3:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Oh no, there's so much more to the S-II's than the S-III's besides MJOLNIR. There's a reason one class was mass-produced.


It certainly wasn't because of advances in technology.

  • 02.10.2011 3:43 PM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

The Halo Story Bible wants a word with you.

P.S. Don't even try to argue about canon with ajw; you'll only make yourself look even more like a fool.


Oh, so you have read the Halo Bible? Huh, I could have sworn only 343 and Bungie employees are allowed to read it. I could also swear that there are items in it that we haven't even SEEN. Halsey and Keyes relationship and being the parents of Miranda for example.


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Oh no, there's so much more to the S-II's than the S-III's besides MJOLNIR. There's a reason one class was mass-produced.


It certainly wasn't because of advances in technology.


The reason Spartan III's were 'mass produced.' Was because A: cheaper due to not having MJOLNIR.
B: Medical advances allowed all of them to survive augmentations.
C: Training was shorter, but better.
D: The Spartan trainees? Orphans from destroyed colonies who matched the genetic requirements. Pretty much all of them volunteered.

  • 02.10.2011 3:58 PM PDT