Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Its Bungie's canon.
  • Subject: Its Bungie's canon.
Subject: Its Bungie's canon.
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Just call me Najar.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Dark Neptune
We aren't deciding the story, because that would ruin any anticipation and love we can get. If we decide a story, it gets predictable, and pretty soon, boring and uninteresting.

And it's pretty obvious you haven't followed Bungie for many years; because your knowledge of these Halo facts seem limited. People I see defending Reach these days are people who are Bungie fanboys and surprisingly don't bother going into the specifics.

P.S. You don't get paid by taking a stand and standing up to Bungie.


You aren't deciding the story, but you people are taking it upon yourselves to decide what is and is not canon, despite never seeing the halo story bible. I find it sadly amusing that if somebody disagrees with you, they are a mindless Halo Reach/bungie fanboy with no thought process of their own, and cannot be right.

Edit: Common logic = An expanding universe's lore will have some conflicting details. Does this ruin it? Hardly, unless you hyper-analyze it and focus on the tiny conflicting details only.

If you expand a universe to much, it will get ruined. Even if it's canon has no little details that conflict with each other. But because you don't leave room for imagination. When you have an awesome, but not that expanded universe, people like the story, because they imagine the other events in a different way and you leave room for their own characters and events, then if you start expanding it to much the people stop to like the story, because they would have like events to happen in another way. This have started to happen to halo, take for example "cryptum", even if it's a good story, forerunners are described different as everyone expected them to be. They are arrogant to other living beings when everyone (not everyone, but at least me) expected them to be the good and advanced race.

[Edited on 02.12.2011 7:57 AM PST]

  • 02.12.2011 7:56 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Magna117
I would like to add that the main part the game refutes from canon in the case of the book is primarily the last quarter (or so) and not the entire work. If people payed more attention to the story and not just to dates...


Ah yes, another fun part. They act as if the events of Halo Reach make the entire book null, when the only part which would actually be conflicting is the single item of "How long it took Reach to fall."


That's the only biggy yeah, only the account of Battle of Reach is what conflicts, and that's stretching things because we also have the Journal which fixes a bunch of stuff. And bringing the Halo Story Bible into the conflict only weakens the entire argument, there's no knowing said document contains and what contradicts it, it can be pretty certain though that nothing in there is the same as it was 10 years ago.

  • 02.12.2011 7:58 AM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: Najar
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Dark Neptune
We aren't deciding the story, because that would ruin any anticipation and love we can get. If we decide a story, it gets predictable, and pretty soon, boring and uninteresting.

And it's pretty obvious you haven't followed Bungie for many years; because your knowledge of these Halo facts seem limited. People I see defending Reach these days are people who are Bungie fanboys and surprisingly don't bother going into the specifics.

P.S. You don't get paid by taking a stand and standing up to Bungie.


You aren't deciding the story, but you people are taking it upon yourselves to decide what is and is not canon, despite never seeing the halo story bible. I find it sadly amusing that if somebody disagrees with you, they are a mindless Halo Reach/bungie fanboy with no thought process of their own, and cannot be right.

Edit: Common logic = An expanding universe's lore will have some conflicting details. Does this ruin it? Hardly, unless you hyper-analyze it and focus on the tiny conflicting details only.

If you expand a universe to much, it will get ruined. Even if it's canon has no little details that conflict with each other. But because you don't leave room for imagination. When you have an awesome, but not that expanded universe, people like the story, because they imagine the other events in a different way and you leave room for their own characters and events, then if you start expanding it to much the people stop to like the story, because they would have like events to happen in another way. This have started to happen to halo, take for example "cryptum", even if it's a good story, forerunners are described different as everyone expected them to be. They are arrogant to other living beings when everyone (not everyone, but at least me) expected them to be the good and advanced race.




Exactly! most of canon problems people have can be easily fixed with a little imagination. Its almost as if any contradictions in the Halo universe cause some fans to lose their minds and explode.

  • 02.12.2011 3:24 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Yeah, they're contradicting themselves.

  • 02.12.2011 6:09 PM PDT

Dark Neptune, a young amateur astronomer whose gaming life is no different from other teenagers of his age, though he controls it more strictly then others.


Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: Dark Neptune


That's the part where you go all the way down the drain dead-wrong. This isn't about Halo: CE canon. Heck, FoR wasn't part of the fanbase. Eric isn't a Halo fanboy, just an author that's hired by MS for his work to write the first Halo novel.

As per the Joe-Staten Harvest stuff, remember, that was before Reach got released. No one complained so much canon-breaking issues, so Joe sought to instil ease among the fanbase.

And just because he put in more effort into games doesn't mean he "obviously" wants.




When did I say Eric was a "Halo fanboy"?

Stop attempting to make it look like I'm saying completely bogus stuff. I just said FoR was accepted by part of the Halo fan-base as full on canon - something which Joe staten responded to 3 years before the release of the Halo:reach game.

A bungie official said 3 years before the release that games over-ride books in canon, yet people like you are still outraged 3 years LATER about books contradicting games in canon.

Well, you were told 3 years ago. It's not Bungie's fault that you didn't prepare for some reconning.


Alright, let's see what we got here:

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
Sorry, I kinda coughed up when you said "10 years" Really, Halo reach did not Break CE canon at all. I suggest you re-form your argument. FOR was established canon by PART of the fanabase, while bungie has been saying that game over-rule canon over everything else. [quote]

If that wasn't what you meant, blame your forum replying "skillz".

[quote]So my point stands. Bungie's canon. Bungie writes the stories. Bungie gave us the game. I am going to take a stand and say it is up to them, not you, to decide the story.


By taking that stand, you're indirectly standing up to Bungie.

Bogus? Please look at your own previous posts.

_____________________________________________

I was told 3 years ago? Oh yeah. I forgot. So basically what you're telling me is that I should NOT have read TFoR then, because it's canon is useless compared to Halo: Reach? Why didn't you say so?

/sarcasm

  • 02.12.2011 11:11 PM PDT

Dark Neptune, a young amateur astronomer whose gaming life is no different from other teenagers of his age, though he controls it more strictly then others.


Posted by: Pipboy 3050



Posted by: Dark Neptune


We aren't deciding the story, because that would ruin any anticipation and love we can get. If we decide a story, it gets predictable, and pretty soon, boring and uninteresting.

And it's pretty obvious you haven't followed Bungie for many years; because your knowledge of these Halo facts seem limited. People I see defending Reach these days are people who are Bungie fanboys and surprisingly don't bother going into the specifics.

P.S. You don't get paid by taking a stand and standing up to Bungie.


You misunderstand to the extreme. When I say you decide the story, I don't mean new instalments, I mean previous instalments into the halo franchise, like Halo:Reach and TFOR. And yes, you like many other people, are attempting to decide the canon (aka the story) of Halo - which is bungie's choice.

As for me not following bungie for many years, please explain. I have been playing Halo for a long time, and following the story. I'd also like to know what I have done which makes my knowledge of halo "facts" seem limited - to you.


You say I don't get into specifics, while I could say you don't look at the big picture.

P.S "You don't get paid by taking a stand and standing up to Bungie" I'm not standing up to Bungie...


Let me be clear once and for all. We are NOT deciding what's canon for Reach and what's NOT.[i] It's is just in front of your brain, the facts and stuff.

If I get to decide what's canon, how the heck am I even going to understand the story? It's like asking me whether Human Evolution is "canon" or not, when it's pretty obvious based on the fossil findings and stuff around the world.

It's not that I do not look at the big picture, it's just that how the hell do you even look at it when the picture looks like a 1000-piece jigsaw puzzle fixed by a 5-year old toddler, with like 25% of ALL the pieces in the proper areas.

Your knowledge of the facts seems limited, [i]to me
, because you don't seem to be able to relate what actually made sense in the story or not. If Halo was a fairy-tale sort of game, anything that didn't made sense was acceptable.

We're not trying to "Steal" or "Hijack" Bungie's canon, (Some of the fans, unlike me, may be actually trying to do just that.) it just doesn't make sense. The whole Games [OVERRIDE] books canon isn't a logical excuse. Because if they were, books shouldn't even be made for the fanbase. As long as a book is written to be "Halo-related", it is. However, stuff like "I Like Bees" fits into the Games [OVERRIDE] other canon catergory, because they were Created by the fanbase, and can be considered Fan-Fiction.

  • 02.12.2011 11:22 PM PDT

Dark Neptune, a young amateur astronomer whose gaming life is no different from other teenagers of his age, though he controls it more strictly then others.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Dark Neptune
We aren't deciding the story, because that would ruin any anticipation and love we can get. If we decide a story, it gets predictable, and pretty soon, boring and uninteresting.

And it's pretty obvious you haven't followed Bungie for many years; because your knowledge of these Halo facts seem limited. People I see defending Reach these days are people who are Bungie fanboys and surprisingly don't bother going into the specifics.

P.S. You don't get paid by taking a stand and standing up to Bungie.


You aren't deciding the story, but you people are taking it upon yourselves to decide what is and is not canon, despite never seeing the halo story bible. I find it sadly amusing that if somebody disagrees with you, they are a mindless Halo Reach/bungie fanboy with no thought process of their own, and cannot be right.

Edit: Common logic = An expanding universe's lore will have some conflicting details. Does this ruin it? Hardly, unless you hyper-analyze it and focus on the tiny conflicting details only.


So are you, ironically, as you seem to be deciding what's canon and what's not as well.

August 12, 2552-

Reach was one of the few places that John considered "safe" from the Covenant. There were a hundred ships and twenty Mark V MAC guns on the orbital stations overhead. Those guns were powered by fusion generators, buried deep within Reach. Each Mark V could propel a projectile so massive, and with such velocity, he doubted if even Covenant shields could withstand a single salvo from them.

-Halo: The Fall of Reach, Page 217 (2001 edition) and Page 249 (2010 edition)


Halo: Reach's missions Tip of the Spear and Long Night of Solace's canons completely contradicts this, (August 12-14, 2552).

So this does not ruin the canon? And this conflicting detail is tiny?

I fail to see how that is common logic. Enlighten me. Please.



  • 02.12.2011 11:31 PM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: Dark Neptune


[/quote]


When did I say Eric was a "Halo fanboy"?

Stop attempting to make it look like I'm saying completely bogus stuff. I just said FoR was accepted by part of the Halo fan-base as full on canon - something which Joe staten responded to 3 years before the release of the Halo:reach game.

A bungie official said 3 years before the release that games over-ride books in canon, yet people like you are still outraged 3 years LATER about books contradicting games in canon.

Well, you were told 3 years ago. It's not Bungie's fault that you didn't prepare for some reconning.




Posted by: Pipboy 3050
Sorry, I kinda coughed up when you said "10 years" Really, Halo reach did not Break CE canon at all. I suggest you re-form your argument. FOR was established canon by PART of the fanabase, while bungie has been saying that game over-rule canon over everything else.

If that wasn't what you meant, blame your forum replying "skillz".

So my point stands. Bungie's canon. Bungie writes the stories. Bungie gave us the game. I am going to take a stand and say it is up to them, not you, to decide the story.

By taking that stand, you're indirectly standing up to Bungie.

Bogus? Please look at your own previous posts.


[quote] I was told 3 years ago? Oh yeah. I forgot. So basically what you're telling me is that I should NOT have read TFoR then, because it's canon is useless compared to Halo: Reach? Why didn't you say so?

/sarcasm

I can see you take my arguments and statements and apply your own screwed up version of it.

"FOR was established canon by PART of the fanabase,"

And? How does this mean I said Eric was a Halo fanboy? This only means when FOR came out part of the fanbase assumed it was proper canon like the games.

And when Did I say you shouldn't read FOR? Why on earth are you putting words into my mouth? Perhaps you should just read and not input a screwed up version of what I said.


Like I said, Bungie has already warned you THREE years before the release of Halo:reach that Games over-ride books in canon should there be a contradiction. Its almost as if they are hinting to you that there's going to be re-conning. So yes, it's YOUR FAULT you didn't prepare for reconning at some point in the Halo universe. Anyone with a brain would know that Re-conning is inevitable when a Story gets to big, its happened in Star wars, Star trek, and many more.

I am not going to waste my time with you. I have given my argument and what the
facts show. Stop putting words into my mouth and Just accept that these contradictions (much of which can be fixed with a little imagination) is just an inevitable consequence of a series getting to big.

  • 02.13.2011 5:45 AM PDT

Halo: Reach was an alternate reality. That would explain everything! Is it cheesy? Yes. Is it better than forcing people who liked the original Canon to accept it? Yes.

  • 02.13.2011 7:26 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Difference with accepting Reach as a retcon is simple.

It didn't just change some things. It didn't just change one book.

It changes the ENTIRE series of events and battles that occur after August 30th, because events in the game don't match up to the books which explained EVERYTHING. Now, events from First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx, hell, Halo CE SHOULD be different. The entire series changes based on this because of what it did.

We can accept Reach as canon, but then we'd need a handful of remakes and rewrites just to get everything back on track, and then Halo canon is more of a cluttered mess than Star Wars. Or, we ignore Reach as a source of canon and everything is fixed again and nothing is lost.

  • 02.13.2011 9:27 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member
  • gamertag: Diaboy
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I respect your opinion, I'm probably just going to disagree with it.

It seems the counter argument to 'Bungie broke their own canon' is 'It's their canon, they can do what they want with it'.
True.
I am also typing this on my Mac Pro. It's mine.
If I really wanted to, I could throw it out the window. Or immerse it in an ice cold bath whilst plugged in. Just because it is mine doesn't make it a particularly good idea. Even then, my Mac Pro isn't appreciated and used by thousands of people across the globe.

  • 02.13.2011 10:50 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Difference with accepting Reach as a retcon is simple.

It didn't just change some things. It didn't just change one book.

It changes the ENTIRE series of events and battles that occur after August 30th, because events in the game don't match up to the books which explained EVERYTHING. Now, events from First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx, hell, Halo CE SHOULD be different. The entire series changes based on this because of what it did.

We can accept Reach as canon, but then we'd need a handful of remakes and rewrites just to get everything back on track, and then Halo canon is more of a cluttered mess than Star Wars. Or, we ignore Reach as a source of canon and everything is fixed again and nothing is lost.


Hardly, TFoR is the only book affected by Reach, and only the tail end of it at that, First Strike might have some dates moved maybe, depending on your opinion of how things fit together, but Onyx and CE are not touched at all. How the hell would CE be affected by Reach anyway?! None of the games have any problems with each other at all. And what little changes there are not so drastic as re-writing the whole series, claiming that is a tad over-dramatic if you ask me.

We wouldn't need remakes at all, all that would be needed is an official statement, or something similar to Halsey's Journal to explain what's been changed in TFoR and how things fit together now.

  • 02.13.2011 11:08 AM PDT

Let's be honest, it could be a lot worse.

Sorry but the games take priority over the books/fiction.

  • 02.13.2011 11:36 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
Difference with accepting Reach as a retcon is simple.

It didn't just change some things. It didn't just change one book.

It changes the ENTIRE series of events and battles that occur after August 30th, because events in the game don't match up to the books which explained EVERYTHING. Now, events from First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx, hell, Halo CE SHOULD be different. The entire series changes based on this because of what it did.

We can accept Reach as canon, but then we'd need a handful of remakes and rewrites just to get everything back on track, and then Halo canon is more of a cluttered mess than Star Wars. Or, we ignore Reach as a source of canon and everything is fixed again and nothing is lost.


Hardly, TFoR is the only book affected by Reach, and only the tail end of it at that, First Strike might have some dates moved maybe, depending on your opinion of how things fit together, but Onyx and CE are not touched at all. How the hell would CE be affected by Reach anyway?! None of the games have any problems with each other at all. And what little changes there are not so drastic as re-writing the whole series, claiming that is a tad over-dramatic if you ask me.

We wouldn't need remakes at all, all that would be needed is an official statement, or something similar to Halsey's Journal to explain what's been changed in TFoR and how things fit together now.


You honestly believe Fall of Reach is the only book effected?

That entire part of the book is changed, and the date of Reach being invaded is changed from the 30th, to the 14th. Not only that, but it means that the spartans weren't getting prepped for Red Flag the entire time, they were on Reach fighting.

It can be argued that the space operation never happened. You have no evidence anymore to support that it did. It's heavily implied at the end of the Package(which is the 29th) that the Autumn is already waiting on the Cortana fragment meaning it's groundside. If it wasn't in space, no space op, no dead Linda/James, meaning the pillar ATLEAST had three spartans on it. And we've no idea what that team would've been doing.

And if the spartans were groundside, guess what? First Strike is retconned because the ground battle of Reach is COMPLETELY changed. We hear from the radio terminals on Reach that Beta team is off fighting some company of wraiths, and there isn't a single mention of the orbital generators which makes sense consider the Orbital Defense Grid has got to be offline by the 30th considering the Covenant have been invading for over two weeks.

And since the pelican never dropped from orbit, no spartan jump occurred, and those 4 spartans never died off the bat. (This also means the interview with Fred at the end of First Strike never happens.) The entire groundside operation is different.

Jun is completely unaccounted for and should've been with Halsey at Castle. That entire scene with Halsey under Castle is different, and the spartans likely could've never ended up there. And if they did, Jun would be with them, and Halsey would've gotten information about the Spartan III's out of Jun, or figured it out herself then and there. Thus, her discovering the III's at Onyx is retconned.

If Halsey already knew about the III's, she probably wouldn't of kidnapped Kelly(who's fate is also altered by Reach.) to go to Oynx in the first place. Not to mention Operation First Strike could be different based on what the II's "really" did groundside because the entire ground operation was retconned. Thus the spartans John saved(if any) would be changed.


CE could be different because if the Autumn never went on the space op, they never would've lost Blue Team, and they wouldn't of picked up Johnson. No Johnson = Halo 2/3's events completely altered.

And if you argue that Linda and James now go with the spartans groundside, then explain why chief was in Cryo on the autumn during the time the pillar was on the planet, and not operational and helping Noble team.

  • 02.13.2011 12:31 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: privet caboose
Difference with accepting Reach as a retcon is simple.

It didn't just change some things. It didn't just change one book.

It changes the ENTIRE series of events and battles that occur after August 30th, because events in the game don't match up to the books which explained EVERYTHING. Now, events from First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx, hell, Halo CE SHOULD be different. The entire series changes based on this because of what it did.

We can accept Reach as canon, but then we'd need a handful of remakes and rewrites just to get everything back on track, and then Halo canon is more of a cluttered mess than Star Wars. Or, we ignore Reach as a source of canon and everything is fixed again and nothing is lost.

This seems to be very hard to grasp for the average-Joe.

  • 02.13.2011 12:37 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Diaboy
It seems the counter argument to 'Bungie broke their own canon' is 'It's their canon, they can do what they want with it'.
True.
I am also typing this on my Mac Pro. It's mine.
If I really wanted to, I could throw it out the window. Or immerse it in an ice cold bath whilst plugged in. Just because it is mine doesn't make it a particularly good idea. Even then, my Mac Pro isn't appreciated and used by thousands of people across the globe.

You showed me the Mac Pro, thus every thing you do with it is a divine act!

Yeah...

  • 02.13.2011 12:40 PM PDT

Posted By:privet caboose
You honestly believe Fall of Reach is the only book effected.


Yes, I do believe that. If any other books are indeed affected then it would only be the beginning of First Strike detailing how Red Team got to the generators.

It can be argued that the space operation never happened. You have no evidence anymore to support that it did. It's heavily implied at the end of the Package(which is the 29th) that the Autumn is already waiting on the Cortana fragment meaning it's groundside. If it wasn't in space, no space op, no dead Linda/James, meaning the pillar ATLEAST had three spartans on it. And we've no idea what that team would've been doing.

And if the spartans were groundside, guess what? First Strike is retconned because the ground battle of Reach is COMPLETELY changed. We hear from the radio terminals on Reach that Beta team is off fighting some company of wraiths, and there isn't a single mention of the orbital generators which makes sense consider the Orbital Defense Grid has got to be offline by the 30th considering the Covenant have been invading for over two weeks.

And since the pelican never dropped from orbit, no spartan jump occurred, and those 4 spartans never died off the bat. (This also means the interview with Fred at the end of First Strike never happens.) The entire groundside operation is different.

Not to mention Operation First Strike could be different based on what the II's "really" did groundside because the entire ground operation was retconned. Thus the spartans John saved(if any) would be changed.


There is no evidence to argue that the Circumference Op never happened either. The Package starts in the late hours of the 29th, 26:16 hours I believe, and Reach has I think a 27 hour day, at the part in question, the one you are referring to at the end, the lighting is completely different from earlier and looks like early morning, this leads me to believe that the time transitions mid-level. So by the end it would be the early morning of the 30th, probably 6:50 or 7:40 possibly even closer to 8:00, it all depends on what season of the year Reach is supposed to be taking place in.

How, pray tell, is the ground battle during the Battle of Reach completely changed? There is no indication of this anywhere, the only change to the ground battle is the extension of the over all Battle of Reach, and that is not enough to retcon First Strike. I don't expect the generators to last up to the 30th, as I know the space battle would not last up to that length either, but the radios on the FF maps would be talking about the various sub groups of Red Team defending the generators, I can't think of anything else that strategically important other than the generators for the Spartans to defend with a massive fleet trying to get at Reach.

4 Spartans hardly changes the ground battle, and more does not necessarily change how many survive. They all died except for the group Fred sent to retrieve Vice Admiral Whitcomb and the wounded group who made it to CASTLE Base (what interview with Fred at the end of First Strike are you talking about? I don't remember there being any interview at the end, are you talking about the reissued version of FS?). And what do you mean by "Operation First Strike could be different based on what SIIs 'really' did groundside"?

Jun is completely unaccounted for and should've been with Halsey at Castle. That entire scene with Halsey under Castle is different, and the spartans likely could've never ended up there. And if they did, Jun would be with them, and Halsey would've gotten information about the Spartan III's out of Jun, or figured it out herself then and there. Thus, her discovering the III's at Onyx is retconned.

If Halsey already knew about the III's, she probably wouldn't of kidnapped Kelly(who's fate is also altered by Reach.) to go to Oynx in the first place. Not to mention Operation First Strike could be different based on what the II's "really" did groundside because the entire ground operation was retconned. Thus the spartans John saved(if any) would be changed.


There are many possible endings for Jun, he either died escorting Halsey to CASTLE, died defending CASTLE, or was reasigned after getting her there. Whatever Jun's final fate may be we know he isn't there when Fred and Kelly get to CASTLE Base. See, the whole reason Halsey kidnapped Kelly is because she didn't know what she was jumping into, and she took a Spartan as security, that wouldn't have changed whether Jun told her about the SIIIs or not.

I do not get your line of reasoning at all for assuming that the Red Team survivors would not have been likely to wind up CASTLE Base, when that was specifically where Fred told them to fall back to and was right around the area of the generators.

CE could be different because if the Autumn never went on the space op, they never would've lost Blue Team, and they wouldn't of picked up Johnson. No Johnson = Halo 2/3's events completely altered.

And if you argue that Linda and James now go with the spartans groundside, then explain why chief was in Cryo on the autumn during the time the pillar was on the planet, and not operational and helping Noble team.


If Blue Team never went on the space op and it didn't happen, then who's to say that Johnson is not part of the Autumn's crew?

Dude, I don't know how many time this has been said, by both sides of the Reach debate I might add, that's a bloody easter egg, it has as much bearing on the canon as Buck picking bugs from the back of a monkey at the end of ODST or a bunch of Grunts and a Brute dancing in the club on the New Alexandria level in Reach.

  • 02.13.2011 3:48 PM PDT

'There are many aspects of the universe that still cannot be explained satisfactorily by science; but ignorance only implies ignorance that may someday be conquered. To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.'
-Isaac Asimov

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
I am really tired of people like Private caboose saying Bungie broke canon.

Why should the books over-rule the story that Bungie created? Why is it up to the fanbase to decide what is canon and what isn't?


Bungie made the god-damn story. And what's really sad is, with a few minor changes, both the Game and the Book can live in harmony.
Bungie was A okay with the Book canon they helped make it so hence Bungie made the book canon. This is for The Fall of Reach

[Edited on 02.13.2011 6:06 PM PST]

  • 02.13.2011 6:03 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Difference with accepting Reach as a retcon is simple.

It didn't just change some things. It didn't just change one book.

It changes the ENTIRE series of events and battles that occur after August 30th, because events in the game don't match up to the books which explained EVERYTHING. Now, events from First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx, hell, Halo CE SHOULD be different. The entire series changes based on this because of what it did.

We can accept Reach as canon, but then we'd need a handful of remakes and rewrites just to get everything back on track, and then Halo canon is more of a cluttered mess than Star Wars. Or, we ignore Reach as a source of canon and everything is fixed again and nothing is lost.


That's what I've been doing. I've ignored Halo: Reach's campaign and just marked it up as "alternate reality." Heck, I can even view it as "ONI propaganda": Halo: Reach is the "official story", but not what really happened. Two simple fixes to the problem.

[Edited on 02.13.2011 6:39 PM PST]

  • 02.13.2011 6:34 PM PDT

Funny thing I've recently found.

http://halo.xbox.com/en-us#/intel/featured/video/assault-on-t he-stars-3/1ebc1b7e-0aa9-4b28-a085-b0c84c317ae1

Towards the end of the video it actually talks about the space battle. Including the fact that a fleet arrived after LNOS was destroyed, starting the main battle. On August 30th, another fleet of a size the UNSC had never seen before arrived and ended the battle.

  • 02.13.2011 6:44 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

I hate you privet caboose. I hate the fact that you actually question things that don't add up instead of accepting them. I hate how you don't thoughtlessly submit to the majority opinion. I hate how you are able to think for yourself. I hate how you use logical arguments to arrive at conclusions. I hate how you use big words I don't understand. Most of all I hate that you don't share my views so that I have to make threads targeted at individual users (you) where I channel my petulant rage over a video game.

[Edited on 02.13.2011 6:55 PM PST]

  • 02.13.2011 6:50 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: privet caboose
And since the pelican never dropped from orbit, no spartan jump occurred, and those 4 spartans never died off the bat. (This also means the interview with Fred at the end of First Strike never happens.) The entire groundside operation is different.


Drop still happened.

Posted by: Breakpoint Radio
Bravo 001: "Mayday, mayday! This is Bravo zero-zero-one, <unintelligible> en route to your position. Do you have a visual on my aircraft, over?"

Golden Arrow: "Bravo zero-zero-one, this is Golden Arrow. I do believe you were steering that bird in the wrong direction, over."

Bravo 001: "Negative, Golden Arrow - I'm flying blind! You need to point me in the direction of the LZ."

Golden Arrow: "You got it, Bravo zero-zero-one; happy to oblige. Link up with UD 1015 3990, heading south-south-west. Slips about one-zero-zero knots. Advise you head for the tree tops and fly straight <unintelligible>. We got more of them problems of our own down here."

Bravo 001: "I say again: that's a negative, Golden Arrow. I've got high value assets <unintelligible>, caught fire on the way to boneyard. Need an LZ clear, over."

Golden Arrow: "With respect, Bravo - unless you have a cartful of tactics with my name on it, you don't have anything of value in that bird. Get your ass to evac."

Bravo 001: "All right, Golden Arrow. If I can't set her down, I'll <unintelligible> on your head, out."

Golden Arrow: "Well, why didn't you say so? Come down close to the tree line at 2.3 klicks west of your current position. That's where me and my boys are, over."

Bravo 001: "I'm gonna need that LZ cleared, Golden Arrow; I'm gonna be right on top of you in three mikes."

Golden Arrow: "Hell, I'm gonna clear you a spot myself, Bravo. Look for the trooper with big-ass grin on his face."

Bravo 001: "Roger that, I'll see you. Out."


Posted by: privet caboose
And if the spartans were groundside, guess what? First Strike is retconned because the ground battle of Reach is COMPLETELY changed. We hear from the radio terminals on Reach that Beta team is off fighting some company of wraiths, and there isn't a single mention of the orbital generators which makes sense consider the Orbital Defense Grid has got to be offline by the 30th considering the Covenant have been invading for over two weeks.


Two ODGs were mentioned in the radio transmissions. ODG A-412 and ODG A-331. Trying to decide if Beta was defending ODG A-331. Seems like it with the way they're talking but I could be totally wrong.

Now a lot of it now comes down to what date these convos were had.

Anyways, linky to the radio convos to those interested.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Funny thing I've recently found.

http://halo.xbox.com/en-us#/intel/featured/video/assault-on-t he-stars-3/1ebc1b7e-0aa9-4b28-a085-b0c84c317ae1

Towards the end of the video it actually talks about the space battle. Including the fact that a fleet arrived after LNOS was destroyed, starting the main battle. On August 30th, another fleet of a size the UNSC had never seen before arrived and ended the battle.


Ha ha! I just watched that last night! XD

And I think Coma covered everything else that needed covering lol.

  • 02.13.2011 11:11 PM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa
If Blue Team never went on the space op and it didn't happen, then who's to say that Johnson is not part of the Autumn's crew?
Johnson was part of a squad consisting of Jenkins, Bicenti, and one more Marine in the station where the Circumference was docked.

  • 02.14.2011 12:00 AM PDT
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exitus acta probat
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Aut viam inveniam aut faciam


Posted by: Dark Neptune

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
I am really tired of people like Private caboose saying Bungie broke canon.

Why should the books over-rule the story that Bungie created? Why is it up to the fanbase to decide what is canon and what isn't?


Bungie made the god-damn story. And what's really sad is, with a few minor changes, both the Game and the Book can live in harmony.


Singling out members is already against the forum rules. Pvt. Caboose has been on the forums for years and is a dedicated Halo fan, more so than you, so show some of the respect he deserves, troll.

Reported.

P.S. The books were created by Bungie, but written by different authors who had the Halo Story Bible to reference from. So technically speaking Bungie made the books. If they didn't, the books would have been long rejected as fan-fiction canon.

  • 02.14.2011 12:30 AM PDT

Dark Neptune, a young amateur astronomer whose gaming life is no different from other teenagers of his age, though he controls it more strictly then others.


Posted by: Pipboy 3050

I can see you take my arguments and statements and apply your own screwed up version of it.

"FOR was established canon by PART of the fanabase,"

And? How does this mean I said Eric was a Halo fanboy? This only means when FOR came out part of the fanbase assumed it was proper canon like the games.

And when Did I say you shouldn't read FOR? Why on earth are you putting words into my mouth? Perhaps you should just read and not input a screwed up version of what I said.


I also see your English must have been very poor indeed. I sure you meant:

"FOR was established AS canon by MAJORITY of the fan community.

The reason I am putting words into your mouth is because I ain't on Earth, I am typing on the planet Neptune as we reply to each other. And I did read, and as I am a Neptunian I tend to love input a very perfectly-screwed up version of what you said (posted).

Like I said, Bungie has already warned you THREE years before the release of Halo:reach that Games over-ride books in canon should there be a contradiction. Its almost as if they are hinting to you that there's going to be re-conning. So yes, it's YOUR FAULT you didn't prepare for reconning at some point in the Halo universe. Anyone with a brain would know that Re-conning is inevitable when a Story gets to big, its happened in Star wars, Star trek, and many more.

It's my fault, so what, why are you acting like my mum punishing me for an immature error?

By clearly repeating the "Games [OVERRIDE] Books in canon" sentence, you're basically telling me the Halo novels should never be read because eventually the Games' stories always replace the Novels' stories. Why bother reading these beloved gifts from heaven, when eventually what you've read and understood the story so far for is practically useless since anything ranging from the color of Master Chief's skin to the existence of SPARTAN-III Gamma Company can be so easily modified and retconned by any new Halo game.

It's like eating more vegetables and stuff to be healthier when you're like the most fittest and healthiest human being in your city, state, country, continent or even on your planet.

I am not going to waste my time with you. I have given my argument and what the
facts show. Stop putting words into my mouth and Just accept that these contradictions (much of which can be fixed with a little imagination) is just an inevitable consequence of a series getting to big.


Your English just sucks, doesn't it? I believe what you meant to say was this:

I am not going to waste my time with you. I have given my argument and what the facts Have Shown. Stop putting words into my mouth and Just accept that these contradictions (much of which can be fixed with a little imagination) Just Are inevitable consequences of a series getting Too Expanded.

I am going to waste more time with you. I will continue to put more pizza-tasty words into your mouth. I will continue to just Reject that these contradictions are inevitable consequences of a beloved and respected series.

Fixed with a little imagination? Wait... didn't that belong to reading books?

P.S. I enjoy being a English-Grammar policeman. :)

  • 02.14.2011 3:51 AM PDT