- OrderedComa
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- Noble Member
Posted By:privet caboose
You honestly believe Fall of Reach is the only book effected.
Yes, I do believe that. If any other books are indeed affected then it would only be the beginning of First Strike detailing how Red Team got to the generators.
It can be argued that the space operation never happened. You have no evidence anymore to support that it did. It's heavily implied at the end of the Package(which is the 29th) that the Autumn is already waiting on the Cortana fragment meaning it's groundside. If it wasn't in space, no space op, no dead Linda/James, meaning the pillar ATLEAST had three spartans on it. And we've no idea what that team would've been doing.
And if the spartans were groundside, guess what? First Strike is retconned because the ground battle of Reach is COMPLETELY changed. We hear from the radio terminals on Reach that Beta team is off fighting some company of wraiths, and there isn't a single mention of the orbital generators which makes sense consider the Orbital Defense Grid has got to be offline by the 30th considering the Covenant have been invading for over two weeks.
And since the pelican never dropped from orbit, no spartan jump occurred, and those 4 spartans never died off the bat. (This also means the interview with Fred at the end of First Strike never happens.) The entire groundside operation is different.
Not to mention Operation First Strike could be different based on what the II's "really" did groundside because the entire ground operation was retconned. Thus the spartans John saved(if any) would be changed.
There is no evidence to argue that the Circumference Op never happened either. The Package starts in the late hours of the 29th, 26:16 hours I believe, and Reach has I think a 27 hour day, at the part in question, the one you are referring to at the end, the lighting is completely different from earlier and looks like early morning, this leads me to believe that the time transitions mid-level. So by the end it would be the early morning of the 30th, probably 6:50 or 7:40 possibly even closer to 8:00, it all depends on what season of the year Reach is supposed to be taking place in.
How, pray tell, is the ground battle during the Battle of Reach completely changed? There is no indication of this anywhere, the only change to the ground battle is the extension of the over all Battle of Reach, and that is not enough to retcon First Strike. I don't expect the generators to last up to the 30th, as I know the space battle would not last up to that length either, but the radios on the FF maps would be talking about the various sub groups of Red Team defending the generators, I can't think of anything else that strategically important other than the generators for the Spartans to defend with a massive fleet trying to get at Reach.
4 Spartans hardly changes the ground battle, and more does not necessarily change how many survive. They all died except for the group Fred sent to retrieve Vice Admiral Whitcomb and the wounded group who made it to CASTLE Base (what interview with Fred at the end of First Strike are you talking about? I don't remember there being any interview at the end, are you talking about the reissued version of FS?). And what do you mean by "Operation First Strike could be different based on what SIIs 'really' did groundside"?
Jun is completely unaccounted for and should've been with Halsey at Castle. That entire scene with Halsey under Castle is different, and the spartans likely could've never ended up there. And if they did, Jun would be with them, and Halsey would've gotten information about the Spartan III's out of Jun, or figured it out herself then and there. Thus, her discovering the III's at Onyx is retconned.
If Halsey already knew about the III's, she probably wouldn't of kidnapped Kelly(who's fate is also altered by Reach.) to go to Oynx in the first place. Not to mention Operation First Strike could be different based on what the II's "really" did groundside because the entire ground operation was retconned. Thus the spartans John saved(if any) would be changed.
There are many possible endings for Jun, he either died escorting Halsey to CASTLE, died defending CASTLE, or was reasigned after getting her there. Whatever Jun's final fate may be we know he isn't there when Fred and Kelly get to CASTLE Base. See, the whole reason Halsey kidnapped Kelly is because she didn't know what she was jumping into, and she took a Spartan as security, that wouldn't have changed whether Jun told her about the SIIIs or not.
I do not get your line of reasoning at all for assuming that the Red Team survivors would not have been likely to wind up CASTLE Base, when that was specifically where Fred told them to fall back to and was right around the area of the generators.
CE could be different because if the Autumn never went on the space op, they never would've lost Blue Team, and they wouldn't of picked up Johnson. No Johnson = Halo 2/3's events completely altered.
And if you argue that Linda and James now go with the spartans groundside, then explain why chief was in Cryo on the autumn during the time the pillar was on the planet, and not operational and helping Noble team.
If Blue Team never went on the space op and it didn't happen, then who's to say that Johnson is not part of the Autumn's crew?
Dude, I don't know how many time this has been said, by both sides of the Reach debate I might add, that's a bloody easter egg, it has as much bearing on the canon as Buck picking bugs from the back of a monkey at the end of ODST or a bunch of Grunts and a Brute dancing in the club on the New Alexandria level in Reach.