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This topic has moved here: Subject: They need to rewrite The Fall of Reach.
  • Subject: They need to rewrite The Fall of Reach.
Subject: They need to rewrite The Fall of Reach.
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Posted by: monkDAN

Posted by: manwith

I almost forgot but this states the Battle of Reach lasted a month.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091013220505/halo/ima ges/thumb/c/c1/ONI_Plaque_Right.jpg/259px-ONI_Plaque_Right.jp g

Source: Halo 3: ODST.

ok good for you. you know have one meaningless thing to support reachs timeline compared to the 5 books that support the original. that is just to say the 5 books that OBVIOUSLY support when actually EVERYTHING else supports it in some way
The books contradict themselves countless times with dates and names. I'd trust a string of games with one blatantly declaring that the Battle of Reach lasted a month than a handful of books that can't get their own dates right even after reprints.

  • 02.09.2011 3:16 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Making the "strongest" Colony fall after a long drawn out battle makes it better then "Dies in a matter of hours."


If we're going by Reach's logic than Reach was no more than a random farmer colony.

There were no SMACs. There was no "huge battle," not that we saw anyway. Hell, the biggest kick in the nuts was at the start of Long Night of Solace, Kat says the UNSC doesn't even have any spare Nukes! You expect me to believe the largest UNSC military planet doesn't have any nukes to use on a priority mission, and this is only August 14th! They haven't even been doing battle with the covies for three weeks!


Because Six totally visited every UNSC base and the UNSC defensive line in space. That's the thing with Reach. You ONLY see Six's viewpoint. You don't see what Holland sees.

In the book, the super-macs are referenced as being all together at one point in orbit. The LNOS wouldn't be in sight of those cannons. Also, Nukes don't do much against a ship of that size with shields up... + Carter is the one who comments on the nukes.

Kat came up with her plan within hours of the super-carrier arriving, meaning UNSC command had a low-risk, high reward plan.

  • 02.09.2011 3:58 PM PDT

It would of been nice if Long night of Solace took place as the Main 314 Covenant ship fleet arrived. The mission would be rewritten to fit canon.

Due to limitations, only a few dozen ships would likely be on screen, but even that would be massive for any Halo battle we would see.

We would see Orbital Defense Guns destroying Covenant ships in space for the first time, UNSC - Covenant Ship to Ship fighting, Perhaps see the UNSC Supercarrier. And maybe the mission would of looked as if the UNSC was going to win, but all of a sudden the MAC platforms stopped shooting and went black, with you realizing the event that just happened...

So much potential...

  • 02.09.2011 4:00 PM PDT


Posted by: The Seraphim
It would of been nice if Long night of Solace took place as the Main 314 Covenant ship fleet arrived. The mission would be rewritten to fit canon.

Due to limitations, only a few dozen ships would likely be on screen, but even that would be massive for any Halo battle we would see.

We would see Orbital Defense Guns destroying Covenant ships in space for the first time, UNSC - Covenant Ship to Ship fighting, Perhaps see the UNSC Supercarrier. And maybe the mission would of looked as if the UNSC was going to win, but all of a sudden the MAC platforms stopped shooting and went black, with you realizing the event that just happened...

So much potential...


Then the mission would have spammed over several hours to maybe even a day. The generators groundside held out for a good long time.(Heck in the radios you can hear about red team's actions defending the generators.)

  • 02.09.2011 4:03 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: The Seraphim
It would of been nice if Long night of Solace took place as the Main 314 Covenant ship fleet arrived. The mission would be rewritten to fit canon.

Due to limitations, only a few dozen ships would likely be on screen, but even that would be massive for any Halo battle we would see.

We would see Orbital Defense Guns destroying Covenant ships in space for the first time, UNSC - Covenant Ship to Ship fighting, Perhaps see the UNSC Supercarrier. And maybe the mission would of looked as if the UNSC was going to win, but all of a sudden the MAC platforms stopped shooting and went black, with you realizing the event that just happened...

So much potential...


Then the mission would have spammed over several hours to maybe even a day. The generators groundside held out for a good long time.(Heck in the radios you can hear about red team's actions defending the generators.)


You would of joined the space battle mid way perhaps?

That adds more to my idea.

LNoS-

Noble Six & Jorge join the Space battle as it's under way, seeing the destruction to both sides ( Perhaps a destroyed Frigate seen while in the launch sequence [ This would also pay homage to ODST ]. ). Six would assist the ODP's by attacking the strafing Seraphs to relieve pressure.

As a Space battle would rage around you ( Some ships getting destroyed, you hearing their screams or cheering over the comms, perhaps a cameo of Captain Keyes destroying the Supercruiser over the comm? ), One of the Assault Carriers would make a Slip space jump in the ODP formation to directly assault them ( Like the books ). Some of the UNSC Ships would draw it's fire while you Fly in it and destroy that big reactor in the hanger from Halo 2 ( This idea is getting more awesome by the second ), thus destroying the ship ( It might of destroyed one or two of the ODP's however. )

With the Assault Carrier destroyed, and more Covenant ships being destroyed by the ODP's, the battle is actually looking well from your point of view. However, you notice the ODP's starting to stop their volleys, and then all light on them turn black. The Generators have been compromised ( Perhaps we would hear the Spartans on the ground over the comms, thus giving them a sort of cameo appearance? )

It's not a fully thought out idea, but it would be canon friendly, and massive plus awesome with a few cameo appearances and space battle.

Some Ships that would appear:
-UNSC Savannah ( It would still get destroyed, but perhaps in a more heroic manner? Ramming into a CCS Cruiser perhaps? )

-UNSC Dawn under Heaven ( Pillar of Autumn's sister ship, maybe we would hear the Captain reference the POA? )

-UNSC Trafalgar ( Be honest, this would be awesome to see it's immense size and sheer firepower. )

-UNSC Aegis Fate ( It's presence at Reach would be seen, and perhaps it's method of escape to Earth? )

I would like to see some unseen Ship lines too, such as a UNSC Destroyer and Carrier, Covenant Frigates and normal cruisers.

Cameo Appearances:

-Keyes ( Over Comms )
-Buck ( Being droped from one of the Orbital ships onto Reach? )
-Rookie ( Someone would talk over the comm about another ODST needing help ( Gage ) and that the Rookie would be sent. )
-Many of the Spartan II's ( Comm chatter about the generators and Orbital mission.)

I should make a thread on this :D

[Edited on 02.09.2011 4:37 PM PST]

  • 02.09.2011 4:20 PM PDT

Problem. The rookie was at a completely different battle during Reach.

  • 02.09.2011 4:47 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Problem. The rookie was at a completely different battle during Reach.


He'd be mentioned about being sent to his destination, not actually being sent there at the moment.

You basically would hear his commanding officer giving him orders over the comm ( And possibly hear his voice :D ).

  • 02.09.2011 4:49 PM PDT


Posted by: The Seraphim

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: The Seraphim
It would of been nice if Long night of Solace took place as the Main 314 Covenant ship fleet arrived. The mission would be rewritten to fit canon.

Due to limitations, only a few dozen ships would likely be on screen, but even that would be massive for any Halo battle we would see.

We would see Orbital Defense Guns destroying Covenant ships in space for the first time, UNSC - Covenant Ship to Ship fighting, Perhaps see the UNSC Supercarrier. And maybe the mission would of looked as if the UNSC was going to win, but all of a sudden the MAC platforms stopped shooting and went black, with you realizing the event that just happened...

So much potential...


Then the mission would have spammed over several hours to maybe even a day. The generators groundside held out for a good long time.(Heck in the radios you can hear about red team's actions defending the generators.)


You would of joined the space battle mid way perhaps?

That adds more to my idea.

LNoS-

Noble Six & Jorge join the Space battle as it's under way, seeing the destruction to both sides ( Perhaps a destroyed Frigate seen while in the launch sequence [ This would also pay homage to ODST ]. ). Six would assist the ODP's by attacking the strafing Seraphs to relieve pressure.

As a Space battle would rage around you ( Some ships getting destroyed, you hearing their screams or cheering over the comms, perhaps a cameo of Captain Keyes destroying the Supercruiser over the comm? ), One of the Assault Carriers would make a Slip space jump in the ODP formation to directly assault them ( Like the books ). Some of the UNSC Ships would draw it's fire while you Fly in it and destroy that big reactor in the hanger from Halo 2 ( This idea is getting more awesome by the second ), thus destroying the ship ( It might of destroyed one or two of the ODP's however. )

With the Assault Carrier destroyed, and more Covenant ships being destroyed by the ODP's, the battle is actually looking well from your point of view. However, you notice the ODP's starting to stop their volleys, and then all light on them turn black. The Generators have been compromised ( Perhaps we would hear the Spartans on the ground over the comms, thus giving them a sort of cameo appearance? )

It's not a fully thought out idea, but it would be canon friendly, and massive plus awesome with a few cameo appearances and space battle.

Some Ships that would appear:
-UNSC Savannah ( It would still get destroyed, but perhaps in a more heroic manner? Ramming into a CCS Cruiser perhaps? )

-UNSC Dawn under Heaven ( Pillar of Autumn's sister ship, maybe we would hear the Captain reference the POA? )

-UNSC Trafalgar ( Be honest, this would be awesome to see it's immense size and sheer firepower. )

-UNSC Aegis Fate ( It's presence at Reach would be seen, and perhaps it's method of escape to Earth? )

I would like to see some unseen Ship lines too, such as a UNSC Destroyer and Carrier, Covenant Frigates and normal cruisers.

Cameo Appearances:

-Keyes ( Over Comms )
-Buck ( Being droped from one of the Orbital ships onto Reach? )
-Rookie ( Someone would talk over the comm about another ODST needing help ( Gage ) and that the Rookie would be sent. )
-Many of the Spartan II's ( Comm chatter about the generators and Orbital mission.)

I should make a thread on this :D

Sounds really cool. But it would be too expensive to make resource wise. That mission alone would take up a huge amount of disk space. Plus it would take the focus off of the fact that you're a foot soldier, not a naval pilot.

  • 02.09.2011 4:52 PM PDT


Posted by: OniLink147

Sounds really cool. But it would be too expensive to make resource wise. That mission alone would take up a huge amount of disk space. Plus it would take the focus off of the fact that you're a foot soldier, not a naval pilot.


If you were playing a pilot or something, yeah. But Halo Reach is more about the ground battles then the space ones.

  • 02.09.2011 4:54 PM PDT


Posted by: OniLink147

Sounds really cool. But it would be too expensive to make resource wise. That mission alone would take up a huge amount of disk space. Plus it would take the focus off of the fact that you're a foot soldier, not a naval pilot.


Six was a Sabre Pilot before being in Noble, but I get your point.

This idea is pretty much a "What if", something I don't think we would see in actuality. Oh well.

  • 02.09.2011 4:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Making the "strongest" Colony fall after a long drawn out battle makes it better then "Dies in a matter of hours."

No, it makes it better that it falls in hours, it shows the real power of a covenant armada.

  • 02.09.2011 5:17 PM PDT


Posted by: Najar
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Making the "strongest" Colony fall after a long drawn out battle makes it better then "Dies in a matter of hours."

No, it makes it better that it falls in hours, it shows the real power of a covenant armada.


The UNSC usually lost space battles. Reach was the one time they were outnumbered and gave heavy losses to the incoming fleet. It was also the first time we have seen the the UNSC with orbital defenses.

Even then, the Covenant weren't going to glass Reach. Ground battles took longer, and the UNSC usually did better.

Even then, a revised timeline said that two fleets came in. First came in after LNOS, and did ground operations. On the 30th, the main force of the fleet arrived and attacked the supermac station line.

  • 02.09.2011 5:35 PM PDT

The Universe forum needs more people like you guys Link and Cmdr, you guys are making excellent points. If you hyper-analyze a universe as expansive as Halo's you'll find "mistakes" and "inconsistencies" in the smallest of issues. Did Reach change things up a bit? Yes, but did it utterly destroy the canon of the story beyond repair? Hell no! A lot the "issues" are remedied in Halsey's Journal, or can just be explained using simple logic and common sense. Essentially you'll only really find fault with Reach if you go looking for "facts" to justify your position.

  • 02.09.2011 5:42 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: A HAM5TER
They need to remake Halo: Reach so it fits in with existing canon.

  • 02.09.2011 5:46 PM PDT
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lolno

  • 02.09.2011 5:46 PM PDT


Posted by: Najar
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Making the "strongest" Colony fall after a long drawn out battle makes it better then "Dies in a matter of hours."

No, it makes it better that it falls in hours, it shows the real power of a covenant armada.


No, it does make them look powerful and scary, but it makes them look like omnipotent gods and humanity like incompetent apes by comparison. A longer sequence of events makes much more sense considering the odds and what each side had at their disposal. The UNSC had the SMACs, which can literally gut a Covenant cruiser in one strike, their fleet was in the usual proportions to the Covenant fleet, and they had Captain God-damned mother--blam!- Keyes, the single greatest military mind of that era next to Preston Cole! The space fight should have dragged out for far longer than a couple measly hours!

  • 02.09.2011 5:53 PM PDT

If anything it's Halo: Reach that needs to be rewritten to fit Canon, or retconned. However, I have come to the conclusion that Bungie didn't intend for this game to be Canon, they just wanted to make a game where you kill Covies and get it over with.

So we should view Halo: Reach like the new Star Trek movie: it happened in an alternate deminision.

[Edited on 02.09.2011 6:42 PM PST]

  • 02.09.2011 6:39 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Najar
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Making the "strongest" Colony fall after a long drawn out battle makes it better then "Dies in a matter of hours."

No, it makes it better that it falls in hours, it shows the real power of a covenant armada.


No, it does make them look powerful and scary, but it makes them look like omnipotent gods and humanity like incompetent apes by comparison. A longer sequence of events makes much more sense considering the odds and what each side had at their disposal. The UNSC had the SMACs, which can literally gut a Covenant cruiser in one strike, their fleet was in the usual proportions to the Covenant fleet, and they had Captain God-damned mother--blam!- Keyes, the single greatest military mind of that era next to Preston Cole! The space fight should have dragged out for far longer than a couple measly hours!


Indeed, my point was "If this is humanity's most heavily defended colony, and it falls in a matter of hours, that shows humanity as kinda stupid."

  • 02.09.2011 6:39 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Najar
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Making the "strongest" Colony fall after a long drawn out battle makes it better then "Dies in a matter of hours."

No, it makes it better that it falls in hours, it shows the real power of a covenant armada.


No, it does make them look powerful and scary, but it makes them look like omnipotent gods and humanity like incompetent apes by comparison. A longer sequence of events makes much more sense considering the odds and what each side had at their disposal. The UNSC had the SMACs, which can literally gut a Covenant cruiser in one strike, their fleet was in the usual proportions to the Covenant fleet, and they had Captain God-damned mother--blam!- Keyes, the single greatest military mind of that era next to Preston Cole! The space fight should have dragged out for far longer than a couple measly hours!


Indeed, my point was "If this is humanity's most heavily defended colony, and it falls in a matter of hours, that shows humanity as kinda stupid."


Or it could be the fact that the Covenant sent the largest fleet Humanity had ever seen at the time (700 Covenant Ships), and rammed these ships down the throat an unsuspecting and outnumbered UNSC force? Nah, couldn't be that. :P

  • 02.09.2011 6:47 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Making the "strongest" Colony fall after a long drawn out battle makes it better then "Dies in a matter of hours."
Haha...ha...hahaha....ahahaha....ha. Ha. No.

I assume you're saying that because it would make more sense for the UNSC's biggest military world to be able to hold out for at least a little while.

This is why it shouldn't be that way.

Reach gave people hope, Reach gave people a reason to believe in humanity. Much like the Titanic, everyone thought nothing could bring it down. But when a Covenant fleet arrived at Reach, that was it. One day, and it was over.

Why is this better? Because Halo is a story. Imagine it as one of Homer's epics. You cannot just make battles more drawn out because "it would seem that logically that makes more sense". You need to show people the desperation, the unbelievable truth that the only thing that gave you hope, was effortlessly annihilated.

Of course it makes sense for Reach to fall in one day. The Covenant vastly outnumbered the UNSC. If they sent their biggest fleet, they could easily destroy Reach in a day. Guess what? They did.

Reach falling in one day draws out more emotion and more of a sense of loss. That's why it's better.

  • 02.09.2011 6:53 PM PDT


Posted by: GrnDragn
Or it could be the fact that the Covenant sent the largest fleet Humanity had ever seen at the time (700 Covenant Ships), and rammed these ships down the throat an unsuspecting and outnumbered UNSC force? Nah, couldn't be that. :P


The timeline I saw, was a portion of the fleet arrived (LNOS arrival.) then on August 30th, the rest of the fleet came to bear, causing Reach's downfall.


Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Making the "strongest" Colony fall after a long drawn out battle makes it better then "Dies in a matter of hours."

I assume you're saying that because it would make more sense for the UNSC's biggest military world to be able to hold out for at least a little while.

This is why it shouldn't be that way.


So, because "It makes sense." is why it shouldn't happen? Like that makes sense in any way.

You see, by showing that Reach fell, that's one thing. To say "Every defense was swatted aside like paper." is another.

"Every defense was swatted aside like paper." doesn't cause a "Remember Reach!" feel. It makes a "Why should we bother fighting?" feel.

The emotions come from Reach being conquered, not how quickly it fell. Remember Reach is called out because the defenders, outnumbered as they were, held the Covenant off for as long as they could.

I mean, honestly I think the fact it lasted a while against overwhelming numbers is better 'emotionally' for the UNSC (the main played from side.) then "Reach was swatted aside like a paper doll in a Hurricane. What chance do we have here?"

You reference the Titanic, didn't the ship take a bit to sink? Didn't they keep trying to hold it up while getting everybody off? Comparably, did it sink instantly?

[Edited on 02.09.2011 7:34 PM PST]

  • 02.09.2011 7:34 PM PDT


Posted by: GrnDragn

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Najar
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Making the "strongest" Colony fall after a long drawn out battle makes it better then "Dies in a matter of hours."

No, it makes it better that it falls in hours, it shows the real power of a covenant armada.


No, it does make them look powerful and scary, but it makes them look like omnipotent gods and humanity like incompetent apes by comparison. A longer sequence of events makes much more sense considering the odds and what each side had at their disposal. The UNSC had the SMACs, which can literally gut a Covenant cruiser in one strike, their fleet was in the usual proportions to the Covenant fleet, and they had Captain God-damned mother--blam!- Keyes, the single greatest military mind of that era next to Preston Cole! The space fight should have dragged out for far longer than a couple measly hours!


Indeed, my point was "If this is humanity's most heavily defended colony, and it falls in a matter of hours, that shows humanity as kinda stupid."


Or it could be the fact that the Covenant sent the largest fleet Humanity had ever seen at the time (700 Covenant Ships), and rammed these ships down the throat an unsuspecting and outnumbered UNSC force? Nah, couldn't be that. :P


It's still 314 ships in everything I've read, what I've read has seemed to indicate that the 700+ ships in the new addition of TFoR was the result of someone taking hyperbole in Halo 2 as direct fact.

And even if it is a surprise attack in TFoR it still makes humanity rather retarded looking and being portrayed in a manner that contradicts all the other depictions of the UNSC military might against the Covenant, and even itself in a way. The space battle should have lasted a great deal longer than a couple hours, a full two weeks? Probably not, but it would most definitely not have been such a short amount of time. And as Cmdr pointed out the Titanic analogy refers more to the fact that Reach, the invincible unconquerable stronghold of humanity, actually fell, not so much the amount of time, that is a big shock yes, but it's not what makes Reach falling significantly shocking to the denizens of the Haloverse.

  • 02.09.2011 7:47 PM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

The games always take priority over books, so the books need to be rewritten, not the games.

  • 02.09.2011 8:16 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Duardo
The games always take priority over books, so the books need to be rewritten, not the games.


The books were just rewritten less than six months ago, mind you. This was 343's biggest failure, as well as Bungies. Probably just a lack of communication, but for those who bought the rewrites it would be a complete and total ripoff if MORE rewrites came out.

  • 02.09.2011 8:17 PM PDT