- superfonz666
- |
- Exalted Member
May I say that, although our opinions differ, I respect you for being mature during a debate.
I state at the start of my OP that I am only looking at the issues that it causes when men look at it although women can be applied. That is what I have done.
Okay fair enough, but surely you agree that the issue is reversable, and just as valid when reversed?
I can get you statistics (I think) but it will take a while, if you are interested in hearing about it, PM me some time so I don't forget. Plus, I don't mean about how much they get payed, I am talking about women actually being forced into it and actually not being able to get out.
Here is the article I found the statistics in; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornographic_actor#Pay_rates
I hope you have the sense not to refute it simply because it is wikipedia, this article is well referenced.
It is actually very hard to find anything on this subject that is not from the point of religious fundementalists or conservative nuts like Fox, comdemning p0rn just because it's p0rn. However, this find was interesting; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_workers%27_rights#Forced_pro stitution
People in the secks industry have had their rights campaigned successfuly and are now not discriminated against, noteably in the section "The Declaration of the Rights of Secks Workers in Europe (2005)". Again it's not the issue at hand, but extremely related.
That is a good point, but the other people watching, do not know them, they see the image and as such objectify them. And the people who filmed it and put it up on the internet are well aware of this. In fact most people watch ameature (including myself) because it is genuine, and I can tell the people in it enjoy it. But this is not what I am limited to, of course I enjoy some more depraved things, but I know they are unrealistic for a real-life desire, and so, should I imagine, would anyone with half as much common sense as I.
Another thing is this; if, as you argue, it is wrong to objectify women, shouldn't it therefore be immoral to compliment them on your looks? Hence, phrases like "your hair looks nice today" or " you look attractive" would become taboo.
Wow, long read, but objectification, is wrong because you are looking only at their looks, you don't see the person, you are having sex with them only because of how they appear. This is the kind of mentality p0rn promotes.
Again, does a woman (or anyone!) not love, nay, crave being complimented on their looks? This is my opinion, but the body and mind are two completely seperate things, you must agree. Every person has the right to do what they please with their body, many of which I don't agree with, but it is their freedom and I will allow it.
Analogy; would you judge a scientist first by his work, or his personality? Obviously it would be the first one, his work. And is this wrong or right? Well neither, really, but it certainly is acceptable. Can the same not apply to a p0rn actor/actress? Of course it can!
Now, just because this man is a scientist, would people expect him to invent reliable jetpacks, or time travel? Of course not, his field is probably observing bacteria, or studying tectonic trends. However, with fictional sceintists, the impossible can be expected; Gordon Freeman, Dr. Frankenstein, even Doc Brown are all examples. Now the same applies to (as one lad afew posts back put it) "Hollywood p0rn" - the scenarioes, sets, people, are all deliberately fictional or extreme because of the same reason - fantasy. Essentially, people who argue p0rn is wrong are the same people (or mindset of people) who argued that DnD was wrong back in the 70's because it was "satanic".
But having intercourse should not only be about looks, do you not agree that it is shallow? Just because our society accepts that it is legitimate does not mean that it is to be encouraged through p0rn and the like.
Of course it is shallow! Infact I think in my previos comment I voiced my distaste for casual secks. However you are implying that p0rn and secks are the same thing. That's like saying Call of Duty and the real fighting in the middle East or in WW2 are the same thing. And before anyone mentions it, no, vidoegames do not promote violence in psychiologically healthy individuals.
That last block was rather long and it was hard to keep track at some points, but is all good :)
Cheers for understanding, I tend to write in one long, articulated vomit of information and then ammend it later.
Sure, but our culture changes with the time period as well, just perhaps not as quickly.
I agree but both have significant effects on people.
Please explain why, to the woman (or man) who's parter wont stop watching p0rn is all that different to one who is having an affair with some one they barely know.
Cheating is a real, physical act of betrayal. It can cause the spread of (deadly) STDs/STI's including AIDs. In many places it is also illegal (even if in the same place polygamy is accepted). It is especially detremantal to families, if one partner cheats (which brings up the point that it is unjust that a woman gains custordy of children something like 80% of the time in divorce court cases, regardless of who is the guilty party). Also the person who cheats will then become undesireable by future potential partners for being unfaithful, and the "victim" (I am unsure of what term to use here) will become undesireable because they may be seen as an unworthy partner, if it was their fault the cheating occured (by driving away their partner with abuse, lack of intimacy, drug addiction, etc).
Cheating is a percieved act of betrayal. There is no physical cheating occuring with p0rn, other than the false perception in the other half's mind. p0rn does not cause any negative health effects (on a psychologically healthy indiviual). Neither would cause any family problems within a family if it were accepted, because even if the other partner is aware, it can be easily hidden from children who are too young to see that sort of thing (eg about 13 or below).
With p0rn there is realistically no victim, unless one half is, as I said before, unstable.
(thanks for your long reply, it posed some interesting points)
No worries, I think the Flood needs some (fairly) intelligent and mature debate.
[Edited on 02.10.2011 12:49 PM PST]