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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why Adult Entertainment Videos Can Do Harm - Discussion
  • Subject: Why Adult Entertainment Videos Can Do Harm - Discussion

May I say that, although our opinions differ, I respect you for being mature during a debate.


I state at the start of my OP that I am only looking at the issues that it causes when men look at it although women can be applied. That is what I have done.

Okay fair enough, but surely you agree that the issue is reversable, and just as valid when reversed?


I can get you statistics (I think) but it will take a while, if you are interested in hearing about it, PM me some time so I don't forget. Plus, I don't mean about how much they get payed, I am talking about women actually being forced into it and actually not being able to get out.
Here is the article I found the statistics in; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornographic_actor#Pay_rates
I hope you have the sense not to refute it simply because it is wikipedia, this article is well referenced.
It is actually very hard to find anything on this subject that is not from the point of religious fundementalists or conservative nuts like Fox, comdemning p0rn just because it's p0rn. However, this find was interesting; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_workers%27_rights#Forced_pro stitution
People in the secks industry have had their rights campaigned successfuly and are now not discriminated against, noteably in the section "The Declaration of the Rights of Secks Workers in Europe (2005)". Again it's not the issue at hand, but extremely related.

That is a good point, but the other people watching, do not know them, they see the image and as such objectify them.
And the people who filmed it and put it up on the internet are well aware of this. In fact most people watch ameature (including myself) because it is genuine, and I can tell the people in it enjoy it. But this is not what I am limited to, of course I enjoy some more depraved things, but I know they are unrealistic for a real-life desire, and so, should I imagine, would anyone with half as much common sense as I.
Another thing is this; if, as you argue, it is wrong to objectify women, shouldn't it therefore be immoral to compliment them on your looks? Hence, phrases like "your hair looks nice today" or " you look attractive" would become taboo.

Wow, long read, but objectification, is wrong because you are looking only at their looks, you don't see the person, you are having sex with them only because of how they appear. This is the kind of mentality p0rn promotes.


Again, does a woman (or anyone!) not love, nay, crave being complimented on their looks? This is my opinion, but the body and mind are two completely seperate things, you must agree. Every person has the right to do what they please with their body, many of which I don't agree with, but it is their freedom and I will allow it.
Analogy; would you judge a scientist first by his work, or his personality? Obviously it would be the first one, his work. And is this wrong or right? Well neither, really, but it certainly is acceptable. Can the same not apply to a p0rn actor/actress? Of course it can!
Now, just because this man is a scientist, would people expect him to invent reliable jetpacks, or time travel? Of course not, his field is probably observing bacteria, or studying tectonic trends. However, with fictional sceintists, the impossible can be expected; Gordon Freeman, Dr. Frankenstein, even Doc Brown are all examples. Now the same applies to (as one lad afew posts back put it) "Hollywood p0rn" - the scenarioes, sets, people, are all deliberately fictional or extreme because of the same reason - fantasy. Essentially, people who argue p0rn is wrong are the same people (or mindset of people) who argued that DnD was wrong back in the 70's because it was "satanic".


But having intercourse should not only be about looks, do you not agree that it is shallow? Just because our society accepts that it is legitimate does not mean that it is to be encouraged through p0rn and the like.

Of course it is shallow! Infact I think in my previos comment I voiced my distaste for casual secks. However you are implying that p0rn and secks are the same thing. That's like saying Call of Duty and the real fighting in the middle East or in WW2 are the same thing. And before anyone mentions it, no, vidoegames do not promote violence in psychiologically healthy individuals.


That last block was rather long and it was hard to keep track at some points, but is all good :)

Cheers for understanding, I tend to write in one long, articulated vomit of information and then ammend it later.


Sure, but our culture changes with the time period as well, just perhaps not as quickly.

I agree but both have significant effects on people.


Please explain why, to the woman (or man) who's parter wont stop watching p0rn is all that different to one who is having an affair with some one they barely know.


Cheating is a real, physical act of betrayal. It can cause the spread of (deadly) STDs/STI's including AIDs. In many places it is also illegal (even if in the same place polygamy is accepted). It is especially detremantal to families, if one partner cheats (which brings up the point that it is unjust that a woman gains custordy of children something like 80% of the time in divorce court cases, regardless of who is the guilty party). Also the person who cheats will then become undesireable by future potential partners for being unfaithful, and the "victim" (I am unsure of what term to use here) will become undesireable because they may be seen as an unworthy partner, if it was their fault the cheating occured (by driving away their partner with abuse, lack of intimacy, drug addiction, etc).
Cheating is a percieved act of betrayal. There is no physical cheating occuring with p0rn, other than the false perception in the other half's mind. p0rn does not cause any negative health effects (on a psychologically healthy indiviual). Neither would cause any family problems within a family if it were accepted, because even if the other partner is aware, it can be easily hidden from children who are too young to see that sort of thing (eg about 13 or below).
With p0rn there is realistically no victim, unless one half is, as I said before, unstable.


(thanks for your long reply, it posed some interesting points)
No worries, I think the Flood needs some (fairly) intelligent and mature debate.


[Edited on 02.10.2011 12:49 PM PST]

  • 02.10.2011 12:39 PM PDT

Posted by: paulster5315
"The victim was identified as CoD: Black Ops. It laid outstretched towards a copy of the game 'Halo'".
"I guess Halo was a milestone that Cod..."
*sunglasses*
"...couldn't quite Reach."
YEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

They're only harmful in the right circumstances. Like, say, HD videos played on a 50 inch 1080p TV. DON'T EVER DO IT. I saw things I never knew existed.

  • 02.10.2011 12:41 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: paulster5315
They're only harmful in the right circumstances. Like, say, HD videos played on a 50 inch 1080p TV. DON'T EVER DO IT. I saw things I never knew existed.


I'm a firm believer that there are some things you just do not want to see in HD.

  • 02.10.2011 12:44 PM PDT


Posted by: SweetTRIX

Posted by: paulster5315
They're only harmful in the right circumstances. Like, say, HD videos played on a 50 inch 1080p TV. DON'T EVER DO IT. I saw things I never knew existed.


I'm a firm believer that there are some things you just do not want to see in HD.


I disagree. I wish I could see life in HD. Oh wait! I can!

lol

  • 02.10.2011 12:47 PM PDT

It's a'me, Sesto


Posted by: CRYSTLE FTW
I agree with you. I wish more men out there had this view.


I agree too, even though I am a guy.

Aren't we like perfect together? You know, both sharing the same opinions and whatnot.

  • 02.10.2011 12:47 PM PDT

Stop Snooping around my Profile please? Thank you :)

Likes: Facts, Opinions
Dislikes: Trolls
People I like:
StarFire317

Read the entire OP.

This is true to a scary degree in some people.

Problem is parents suck now a days. They don't know what true restriction means and quite frankly it seems like a lot of them just don't care enough to make sure their kids aren't watching anything they shouldn't be.

This can be observed in TV too...

Maybe I'm just being prejudice.

  • 02.10.2011 12:49 PM PDT
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Enlightened Ones. Join.

e^ix = cos(x) + isin(x)
Such that e is Euler's number, and i^2 = -1.

If you want help with homework: tell me what math class it is for, the name of the chapter you are on, and what specifically is difficult for you. Remember, I'm always glad to help :).

(Yes, the numbers are out of order for a reason)

1. Saying that pr0n is harmful because sex isn't actually that good is like saying movies are harmful because life isn't really that good. Furthermore, If someone expects sex to be as good as pr0n, that's not the film's fault, it's the person's fault.

3. Once again, not a problem with pr0n, a problem with people. Saying that pr0n makes men think women are objects, and blaming pr0n for this, that's that blaming guns for killing people, or like blaming alcohol for drunk driving.

2. Pr0n is not addictive. It is no more ''addictive'' than anything else that people like to do. Plus, something being addictive in and of itself is not bad. It's only bad for something to be addictive if it is also harmful. You, so far, have failed to demonstrate that pr0n is harmful.

Each of your arguments' validity depends entirely on a person not being responsible. It follows that this post only has valid points against people certain people who watch pr0n, not pr0n itself. As it stands, not only is pro0n not directly harmful to anyone, but it is also somewhat beneficial to people.

In a nutshell: pr0n is only bad if a person is irresponsible. Thus, you cannot blame the pr0n, but the person for being irresponsible.

[Edited on 02.10.2011 12:53 PM PST]

  • 02.10.2011 12:52 PM PDT

NEWS FLASH: EVERYONE watches pornz or have seen at least one vid before. I think we will be ok. Just use it in moderation like you should with everything and you should be fine.

  • 02.10.2011 12:54 PM PDT


Posted by: Gibsonsg527
NEWS FLASH: EVERYONE watches pornz or have seen at least one vid before. I think we will be ok. Just use it in moderation like you should with everything and you should be fine.

  • 02.10.2011 12:57 PM PDT
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"Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Thus, I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that,after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified." -1 Corinthians 9:24-27

Very well thought out OP. I completely agree and I wished more men were like this.

  • 02.10.2011 1:01 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: Charles128

Posted by: SweetTRIX

Posted by: paulster5315
They're only harmful in the right circumstances. Like, say, HD videos played on a 50 inch 1080p TV. DON'T EVER DO IT. I saw things I never knew existed.


I'm a firm believer that there are some things you just do not want to see in HD.


I disagree. I wish I could see life in HD. Oh wait! I can!

lol


Hmmm, I smell a scam haha.



Posted by: CRYSTLE FTW
I agree with you. I wish more men out there had this view.


And for the women who watch pr0n and expect their men to be hung like horses and last for two hours?

  • 02.10.2011 1:01 PM PDT

'Κύριε Ἰησοῦ Χριστέ, Υἱὲ τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἐλέησόν με τὸν ἁμαρτωλόν.'

"But let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious."-1 Peter 3:4

Those are some pretty valid points, and I agree with you, I used to be addicted to it, fortunately I am pretty much over it now. I do think that the adult entertainment industry is harmful, although, I would not blame the objectification of women entirely on it.

*Puts on flamesuit*

Women have been objectifying themselves for years, and men have played a role in it, but the truth is, most of the objectification comes from women themselves. Women have chosen to become erotic actresses and prostitutes since ancient times. Hell, women degrade themselves with the Cosmopolitan magazines and all. I'm tired of all the freaking feminists blaming it only on men and Playboy, because it is not entirely men's fault.

  • 02.10.2011 1:02 PM PDT

My YouTube Channel

My Home

Typical Halo nerd. Move along.

This is a good thread, and a good read. Thank you for sharing this.

  • 02.10.2011 1:03 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: Tomahawker
Very well thought out OP. I completely agree and I wished more men were like this.


You wish more men acknowledged that pr0n can be a problem, or you wish more men would blame pr0n for a bunch of stuff like the OP has been doing?

  • 02.10.2011 1:04 PM PDT
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"Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win. Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one. Thus, I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing. No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that,after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified." -1 Corinthians 9:24-27


Posted by: SweetTRIX

Posted by: Tomahawker
Very well thought out OP. I completely agree and I wished more men were like this.


You wish more men acknowledged that pr0n can be a problem, or you wish more men would blame pr0n for a bunch of stuff like the OP has been doing?
Acknowledging that pr0n can be a problem and that it can lead to problems that the OP mentioned.

  • 02.10.2011 1:06 PM PDT

Most men in relationships use adult entertainment as their partner does not have a similar sex drive to them. Once a day becomes once a week becomes once in a while. For those of us with a healthy sex drive you do need an outlet that the internet readily provides.

If you can not separate the fantasy that adult entertainment provides compared to the reality of life then you will be seriously let down by most things in life regardless (advertising, movies, books).

If you are saying that I am a sex addict then that is ridiculous. Stop seeing a healthy sex drive as being a bad thing. Sure visiting prostitutes is unhealthy and dangerous (and not something I have ever done) but using adult entertainment has helped the relationship between myself and my wife rather than just nagging her for something she doesn't want all the time. A man shouldn't have to regulate something that comes naturally to him just as I wouldn't deny a woman want they want also - it's win win.

[Edited on 02.10.2011 1:18 PM PST]

  • 02.10.2011 1:13 PM PDT

There's my wall!

  • 02.10.2011 1:15 PM PDT



Women have been objectifying themselves for years, and men have played a role in it, but the truth is, most of the objectification comes from women themselves. Women have chosen to become erotic actresses and prostitutes since ancient times. Hell, women degrade themselves with the Cosmopolitan magazines and all. I'm tired of all the freaking feminists blaming it only on men and Playboy, because it is not entirely men's fault.



I agree completely. I find those female - centred magazines to be more sickening than even some of the worst, most depraved categories of p0rn.

  • 02.10.2011 1:17 PM PDT

I know you are but what am I?

Objectification is my main problem with it

  • 02.10.2011 1:19 PM PDT

My spoon isn't the only thing that's too big


Posted by: JFKES
Posted by: mahspoonis2big

Posted by: JFKES
Posted by: A Blind Wolf
Here's a video of a guy refuting 100 reasons why pr0nz is "bad"

It's 41 minutes long but it's worth learning that your thoughts on pr0nz are stupid, OP
P0rn can break up relationships, I know that for a fact. I know of a married couple that have split up because of it. I don't care what that video says, its true.

So you can think that it is correct, but do you think you could give it up if your girlfriend/wife wanted you to?

- JFKES
Are you one of those people that applies the results of a few instances to the entirety of the matter at hand? You do realize that's a logical fallacy, right?
What, so you think that the vast majority of the p0rn watching population could give it up for their wife/girlfriend? You must have seen how many of the flood have confessed to being addicted and not being able to give it up. I know of many cases where the person tries to give it up, but can't and it effects relationships.

- JFKES
Why would a woman want a man to give up fapping and adult videos? Better question, why would a man want a woman who would want him to give up those things?

  • 02.10.2011 1:19 PM PDT
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Why So Serious?

"I'm gonna go America all over everybody's asses!"
-Charlie, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia


Posted by: JFKES
Posted by: Charles128
This thread is opinionated and pointless, and without evidence.
Yes, but it is true in some cases as well. It is food for thought. There are cases of peoples relationships breaking up because of p0rn, don't believe me, give it a google (I am sure you will find something). I an warning the flood that these things can happen.

PS- anyone know why my response to the last post has messed up the [quote] things? because I have checked it more than three times and I can see nothing wrong with it.

- JFKES


There are also cases of people's relationships breaking up because of food preferences. Or toothpaste. Or sleeping habits.

It is the people who make things happen, not the p0rn.

  • 02.10.2011 1:21 PM PDT

I know you are but what am I?


Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Why would a woman want a man to give up fapping and adult videos?

Religious and/or moral reasons

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Better question, why would a man want a woman who would want him to give up those things?


You're saying that you wouldn't want any girl no matter how beautiful or perfect they are, to tell you to give up -blam!-?

  • 02.10.2011 1:22 PM PDT


Posted by: JFKES
Posted by: Charles128
This thread is opinionated and pointless, and without evidence.
Yes, but it is true in some cases as well. It is food for thought. There are cases of peoples relationships breaking up because of p0rn, don't believe me, give it a google (I am sure you will find something). I an warning the flood that these things can happen.

PS- anyone know why my response to the last post has messed up the [quote] things? because I have checked it more than three times and I can see nothing wrong with it.

- JFKES


How do you propose a man exercises his -blam!-ity when his partner isn't as interested anymore? I believe you do not understand some of the realities of relationships and -blam!-ity. Believe me when I say that after two children women are not very interested in sex. At the moment your advice is simply for men to ignore it - nice one.

  • 02.10.2011 1:22 PM PDT

Don't lase me bro!

Posted by: SweetTRIX
I disagree, -blam!- does little more than to visualize a persons fantasy, hence why it is offered in so many flavors. Peoples perversions have been around since, well, people. Stating that -blam!- is responsible for shaping such things is ignorant at best, if anything it simply feeds of perversions already in place. IMO The only thing the adult entertainment industry increases is accessibility.


I don't think this is a case of "don't kill the messenger." By increasing the accessibility to explicit content, the adult industry has made s3xual perversion mainstream.

So they are doing harm.

Okay, even if you believe that p0rn is fine for adults, you have to admit that it isn't good for the 10-13 y/o kids who accidentally find it online. The average age of exposure to p0rn is 11 (sorry I can't find a citation for that). Personally I believe some p0rn is marketed to 13-19 y/o crowd. that may be completely false, but as someone who has viewed p0rn from an early age that is my perspective. I'd give some examples, but I don't want to get too explicit.

At first, p0rn simply takes the desires we already have an "exploits" them. But further on (at least for me), I found myself being attracted to things I was never attracted to in the first place. Some of those things scared me.

Even if p0rn is simply "visualizing" a person's fantasy, is that really a good thing? No, of course not. But it pays the bills so what the heck.

  • 02.10.2011 1:23 PM PDT