Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why Adult Entertainment Videos Can Do Harm - Discussion
  • Subject: Why Adult Entertainment Videos Can Do Harm - Discussion
Subject: Why Adult Entertainment Videos Can Do Harm - Discussion

My spoon isn't the only thing that's too big


Posted by: Zon The Great

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Why would a woman want a man to give up fapping and adult videos?

Religious and/or moral reasons

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Better question, why would a man want a woman who would want him to give up those things?


You're saying that you wouldn't want any girl no matter how beautiful or perfect they are, to tell you to give up -blam!-?
Religious relies on faith, not logic. That's not really applicable.

And no, I wouldn't want a woman that made me change the way I was in that respect, just as she wouldn't want me to make her change the way she was for me. It's a little thing called "compatibility." If she was so perfect for me, she wouldn't expect that from me.

[Edited on 02.10.2011 1:26 PM PST]

  • 02.10.2011 1:24 PM PDT

Dumb people are just blissfully unaware of how very dumb they are.

Posted by: sims3k
so




Good argument...But what if i said i'm aware that what i see is not real and just enjoy the pleasure on occasion.

  • 02.10.2011 1:24 PM PDT

My spoon isn't the only thing that's too big


Posted by: The real Mr Lala
Posted by: SweetTRIX
I disagree, -blam!- does little more than to visualize a persons fantasy, hence why it is offered in so many flavors. Peoples perversions have been around since, well, people. Stating that -blam!- is responsible for shaping such things is ignorant at best, if anything it simply feeds of perversions already in place. IMO The only thing the adult entertainment industry increases is accessibility.


I don't think this is a case of "don't kill the messenger." By increasing the accessibility to explicit content, the adult industry has made s3xual perversion mainstream.

So they are doing harm.

Okay, even if you believe that p0rn is fine for adults, you have to admit that it isn't good for the 10-13 y/o kids who accidentally find it online. The average age of exposure to p0rn is 11 (sorry I can't find a citation for that). Personally I believe some p0rn is marketed to 13-19 y/o crowd. that may be completely false, but as someone who has viewed p0rn from an early age that is my perspective. I'd give some examples, but I don't want to get too explicit.

At first, p0rn simply takes the desires we already have an "exploits" them. But further on (at least for me), I found myself being attracted to things I was never attracted to in the first place. Some of those things scared me.

Even if p0rn is simply "visualizing" a person's fantasy, is that really a good thing? No, of course not. But it pays the bills so what the heck.
Perversion isn't mainstream, it's ingrained in your head. People have been "perverted" for as long as they've been having sex.

And that's about as long as we've existed.

  • 02.10.2011 1:25 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: Tomahawker

Posted by: SweetTRIX

Posted by: Tomahawker
Very well thought out OP. I completely agree and I wished more men were like this.


You wish more men acknowledged that pr0n can be a problem, or you wish more men would blame pr0n for a bunch of stuff like the OP has been doing?
Acknowledging that pr0n can be a problem and that it can lead to problems that the OP mentioned.


Fair enough.

  • 02.10.2011 1:25 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Why So Serious?

"I'm gonna go America all over everybody's asses!"
-Charlie, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia


Posted by: mahspoonis2big

Perversion isn't mainstream, it's ingrained in your head. People have been "perverted" for as long as they've been having sex.

And that's about as long as we've existed.


^ This

  • 02.10.2011 1:28 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: The real Mr Lala
Posted by: SweetTRIX
I disagree, -blam!- does little more than to visualize a persons fantasy, hence why it is offered in so many flavors. Peoples perversions have been around since, well, people. Stating that -blam!- is responsible for shaping such things is ignorant at best, if anything it simply feeds of perversions already in place. IMO The only thing the adult entertainment industry increases is accessibility.


I don't think this is a case of "don't kill the messenger." By increasing the accessibility to explicit content, the adult industry has made s3xual perversion mainstream.


I don't see how it could accomplish such a thing, it caters to perverted people, it doesn't make them. Bottom line, if there was no market for it, it wouldn't exist. Pr0n didn't create those who are enticed by watching sex acts, it simply caters to them.

So they are doing harm.

Elaborate please, harm in what way?

Okay, even if you believe that p0rn is fine for adults, you have to admit that it isn't good for the 10-13 y/o kids who accidentally find it online. The average age of exposure to p0rn is 11 (sorry I can't find a citation for that). Personally I believe some p0rn is marketed to 13-19 y/o crowd. that may be completely false, but as someone who has viewed p0rn from an early age that is my perspective. I'd give some examples, but I don't want to get too explicit.

I have at no point ever implied or insinuated that pr0n should be viewed or is acceptable to be viewed by minors, that is entirely unrelated to the subject of debate that I have carried with the OP for some time now. I do agree that it should not be in the hands of minors (for a few reasons), but that's more an issue of accesibility than of it existing in general.

At first, p0rn simply takes the desires we already have an "exploits" them. But further on (at least for me), I found myself being attracted to things I was never attracted to in the first place. Some of those things scared me.

A totally subjective issue, but to be fair, sure it can happen. The thing to remember is that there is someone out there that will buy it, so they make it. Sure people who crave only "vanilla" pr0n may be introduced to new stuff, but that's not to say that the adult entertainment industry is making this up, they are (once again) simply catering to the market.

Even if p0rn is simply "visualizing" a person's fantasy, is that really a good thing? No, of course not. But it pays the bills so what the heck.

Why is it inherently a bad thing? As long as it doesn't interfer with your daily life, cause health/mental concerns, or interfer with your relationship then whats the issue?

[Edited on 02.10.2011 1:50 PM PST]

  • 02.10.2011 1:34 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Mythic Member
  • gamertag: JFKES
  • user homepage:

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me"

- Batman

Before I move onto this second long post. I would like to thank everyone who has posted, be it with kind remarks and thank yous, or arguments against my view. If you disagree, I would much rather debate it with you, than you stay silent.

Now, moving on:

Posted by: superfonz666
May I say that, although our opinions differ, I respect you for being mature during a debate.

Thank you, I do enjoy this, although it is at some points draining.

Okay fair enough, but surely you agree that the issue is reversable, and just as valid when reversed?Very much so, even to some stronger degrees. It is just that I do not think that it is as common.

Here is the article I found the statistics in; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornographic_actor#Pay_rates
I hope you have the sense not to refute it simply because it is wikipedia, this article is well referenced.
It is actually very hard to find anything on this subject that is not from the point of religious fundementalists or conservative nuts like Fox, comdemning p0rn just because it's p0rn. However, this find was interesting; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_workers%27_rights#Forced_pro stitution
People in the secks industry have had their rights campaigned successfuly and are now not discriminated against, noteably in the section "The Declaration of the Rights of Secks Workers in Europe (2005)". Again it's not the issue at hand, but extremely related.
I don't think you quite get what I mean, let me get a link to show you, just so we are on the same page...

And the people who filmed it and put it up on the internet are well aware of this. In fact most people watch ameature (including myself) because it is genuine, and I can tell the people in it enjoy it. But this is not what I am limited to, of course I enjoy some more depraved things, but I know they are unrealistic for a real-life desire, and so, should I imagine, would anyone with half as much common sense as I.Just because they know that it is happening, does not make it any more correct. I hate to use an analogy (I am told by those which know me that I use them far too much...) but say someone posted a video of them killing some one else, just because the person who posted it enjoys it, and knows that people who are watching it will objectify the person being killed, does not make it any more acceptable. I understand the difference between my example and that of amateur p0rn, but I think that the same basic logic applies.

Another thing is this; if, as you argue, it is wrong to objectify women, shouldn't it therefore be immoral to compliment them on your looks? Hence, phrases like "your hair looks nice today" or " you look attractive" would become taboo.Not really, they are compliments, you say them to make the person feel better about themselves, which is totally different to objectifying women. You are still respecting the individual, and you are simply stating something about their appearance, not using their appearance for your own pleasure, turning them into an object for your use, nothing more.

Again, does a woman (or anyone!) not love, nay, crave being complimented on their looks?See above.

This is my opinion, but the body and mind are two completely seperate things, you must agree.In once sense yes, but they are also very closely linked.

Every person has the right to do what they please with their body, many of which I don't agree with, but it is their freedom and I will allow it.On one level I say that we should have freedom, but say I wanted to use my body to become a child rapist, would you still allow it?

Analogy; would you judge a scientist first by his work, or his personality? Obviously it would be the first one, his work. And is this wrong or right? Well neither, really, but it certainly is acceptable. Can the same not apply to a p0rn actor/actress? Of course it can!Interesting point. But you are not treating the scientist himself as an object, just his published work, which differs, because the work is an object, and is not an individual.

Now, just because this man is a scientist, would people expect him to invent reliable jetpacks, or time travel? Of course not, his field is probably observing bacteria, or studying tectonic trends. However, with fictional sceintists, the impossible can be expected; Gordon Freeman, Dr. Frankenstein, even Doc Brown are all examples. Now the same applies to (as one lad afew posts back put it) "Hollywood p0rn" - the scenarioes, sets, people, are all deliberately fictional or extreme because of the same reason - fantasy. Essentially, people who argue p0rn is wrong are the same people (or mindset of people) who argued that DnD was wrong back in the 70's because it was "satanic".Again, p0rn stars are individuals, they are encouraging these more extreme types of sex. You can argue that they never mean it to be replicated, but many people wish that it could be. The difference between not actually being live on Pandora and be an Avatar and p0rn in this case, is that often although people want both, they blame their partner if they don't get this fantasy intercourse.

Of course it is shallow! Infact I think in my previos comment I voiced my distaste for casual secks. However you are implying that p0rn and secks are the same thing. That's like saying Call of Duty and the real fighting in the middle East or in WW2 are the same thing. And before anyone mentions it, no, vidoegames do not promote violence in psychiologically healthy individuals.Its not like saying Call of Duty and fighting in the middle East are the same thing, as the characters and people in Call of Duty aren't real, they aren't even actors. Also, when playing Call of Duty, you aren't actually watching real people being killed, even if it was in a slightly unrealistic way, you knew it was totally fake. With p0rn, it is actually two people having intercourse, in some cases it may still be over the top, but the act is still taking place. You said you liked watching amateur p0rn which is more realistic, this isn't fake at all, so it isn't like Call of Duty at all.

Cheers for understanding, I tend to write in one long, articulated vomit of information and then ammend it later.No problem :) I am just thankful someone invented the enter button...

I agree but both have significant effects on people.No longer anything to debate here.

Cheating is a real, physical act of betrayal. -blam!-ion is a physical act, and watching something to stimulate it is also just as 'real', the betrayal although may not quite be equal, it close in the minds of many partners.

It can cause the spread of (deadly) STDs/STI's including AIDs.Sure, but in many cases that isn't why the partner is upset about someone cheating.

In many places it is also illegal (even if in the same place polygamy is accepted). It is especially detremantal to families, if one partner cheats I agree, but that is because I think that it is more in the open, I have talked to people who were totally distraught after finding downloaded p0rn on their boyfriends computer.

(which brings up the point that it is unjust that a woman gains custordy of children something like 80% of the time in divorce court cases, regardless of who is the guilty party). Totally agree.

Also the person who cheats will then become undesireable by future potential partners for being unfaithful, and the "victim" (I am unsure of what term to use here) will become undesireable because they may be seen as an unworthy partner, if it was their fault the cheating occured (by driving away their partner with abuse, lack of intimacy, drug addiction, etc). Some times, but it is surprising how many people re-marry even after being unfaithful (sure it may break up again, but that does not change that fact that they were desirable)

Cheating is a percieved act of betrayal. There is no physical cheating occuring with p0rn, other than the false perception in the other half's mind. p0rn does not cause any negative health effects (on a psychologically healthy indiviual). Neither would cause any family problems within a family if it were accepted, because even if the other partner is aware, it can be easily hidden from children who are too young to see that sort of thing (eg about 13 or below). P0rn can be seen as an act of betrayal, there is a physical act of -blam!-ion while watching p0rn. Cheating (if accepted) would cause no family problems, some stars are unfaithful all the time and it doesn't effect them, but they are a tiny minority, and IMO there is no point in them being together.

With p0rn there is realistically no victim, unless one half is, as I said before, unstable. The family can be a victim, if the husband is tired of his wife, and wont give up his satisfaction which he gets from p0rn.

No worries, I think the Flood needs some (fairly) intelligent and mature debate. Intelligent debate on the flood? I never thought I would see the day! :P

But really, I do enjoy arguing/debating with others, because even if I don't change the others mind, it secures in my own mind, my personal beliefs. I thank you for taking the time to answer and ask questions, prying deeper into my own mind and thought process.

- JFKES

  • 02.10.2011 1:42 PM PDT

Vikki Blows <3

Very... Intelligent? Not something I expect from The Flood.

+1

  • 02.10.2011 1:48 PM PDT

My spoon isn't the only thing that's too big

After looking over these posts, it seems as if you believe that marriage can be a lifelong institution for everybody.

Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on who you are, that's not the case. Marriages that are forced are horrid. If a guy's rejecting his wife to look at adult videos, it's over, and that's not even a bad thing. It's a good indicator to both of them that either they need to work out their issues, or it's time to move on.

  • 02.10.2011 1:49 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Mythic Member
  • gamertag: JFKES
  • user homepage:

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me"

- Batman

Posted by: Robobeast
How do you propose a man exercises his -blam!-ity when his partner isn't as interested anymore? I believe you do not understand some of the realities of relationships and -blam!-ity. Believe me when I say that after two children women are not very interested in sex. At the moment your advice is simply for men to ignore it - nice one.
Then that is the partners problem. She is seeing intercourse as more of a one way thing for her. She should continue having intercourse with you, because she loves you, in the same way I guess you will help her tidy the house. You both have to do things which you don't really want yourself, in order to make the other happy. Of course people have needs, but resorting to other forms of stimulation is not the answer, they should instead asses the cause. I really do suggest you talk to your partner about it and explain how you feel.

- JFKES

  • 02.10.2011 1:52 PM PDT

I see, I see....

  • 02.10.2011 1:55 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I'm for cereal.

I agree with the OP 95%.

  • 02.10.2011 1:57 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Mythic Member
  • gamertag: JFKES
  • user homepage:

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me"

- Batman

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
After looking over these posts, it seems as if you believe that marriage can be a lifelong institution for everybody.

Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on who you are, that's not the case. Marriages that are forced are horrid. If a guy's rejecting his wife to look at adult videos, it's over, and that's not even a bad thing. It's a good indicator to both of them that either they need to work out their issues, or it's time to move on.
I know marriage can not be a life long thing for everybody. My grandparents slit up, my best mates father went off with another woman. Both my aunts are divorced.

Just because marriage (or just a committed relationship) can end, doesn't mean it should. The final thing that ruined every marriage I have seen end is un-forgivingness. Sure in some cases it is understandable, such as if the partner is addicted to p0rn and wont give it up. But that does not mean it is needed for that to happen. A divorce solves nothing, it is like quitting a game because you are finding it too hard, it would be much better to push through the hard times, no matter how difficult it is until you get past the tough moments and you have worked it out between you both.

- JFKES

  • 02.10.2011 1:58 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"


Posted by: JFKES
Posted by: Robobeast
How do you propose a man exercises his -blam!-ity when his partner isn't as interested anymore? I believe you do not understand some of the realities of relationships and -blam!-ity. Believe me when I say that after two children women are not very interested in sex. At the moment your advice is simply for men to ignore it - nice one.
Then that is the partners problem. She is seeing intercourse as more of a one way thing for her. She should continue having intercourse with you, because she loves you, in the same way I guess you will help her tidy the house. You both have to do things which you don't really want yourself, in order to make the other happy. Of course people have needs, but resorting to other forms of stimulation is not the answer, they should instead asses the cause. I really do suggest you talk to your partner about it and explain how you feel.

- JFKES


Therin lies the issue though, no matter how much the two of you talk about it there is the chance that she is just done with frequent sex, and nothing you say may be able to sway her. So what do you suggest? "Dealing" with it and growing bitter at your partner over such a thing? Surely you wouldn't suggest ending a relationship over one's prudish behavior. So what's the option?

  • 02.10.2011 1:59 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Why So Serious?

"I'm gonna go America all over everybody's asses!"
-Charlie, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia

Lots of sad, secksually confused adolescents in this thread.

[Edited on 02.10.2011 2:00 PM PST]

  • 02.10.2011 2:00 PM PDT

If my girlfriend wishes to film us having sex then I
absolutely wouldnt mind. I already have my pr0n name decided.

On a more serious note: Wanking isnt that big of a deal. I know for a fact EVERYONE has at least pleasured themselves, man or woman, at least once in their lifetime. I wouldnt doubt the Pope has had a whack. WTF is a Beiber?

[Edited on 02.10.2011 2:07 PM PST]

  • 02.10.2011 2:01 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Mythic Member
  • gamertag: JFKES
  • user homepage:

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me"

- Batman

Posted by: SweetTRIX

Posted by: JFKES
Posted by: Robobeast
How do you propose a man exercises his -blam!-ity when his partner isn't as interested anymore? I believe you do not understand some of the realities of relationships and -blam!-ity. Believe me when I say that after two children women are not very interested in sex. At the moment your advice is simply for men to ignore it - nice one.
Then that is the partners problem. She is seeing intercourse as more of a one way thing for her. She should continue having intercourse with you, because she loves you, in the same way I guess you will help her tidy the house. You both have to do things which you don't really want yourself, in order to make the other happy. Of course people have needs, but resorting to other forms of stimulation is not the answer, they should instead asses the cause. I really do suggest you talk to your partner about it and explain how you feel.

- JFKES


Therin lies the issue though, no matter how much the two of you talk about it there is the chance that she is just done with frequent sex, and nothing you say may be able to sway her. So what do you suggest? "Dealing" with it and growing bitter at your partner over such a thing? Surely you wouldn't suggest ending a relationship over one's prudish behavior. So what's the option?
Let her know how much it means to you. Work out a system where if you do something for her to be nice to her, then she will have intercourse with you in order to love you. If this still isn't happening then I would suggest talking to a marriage councilor and working out how to discover a plan of action.

I understand why people would resort to p0rn or have affairs when something like this happens, but I do not think that is should be the answer.

If she doesn't listen to reason, in the end, you should give up intercourse, because you love her. A relationship should not rest only in intercourse, and if you leave her because of it (or lack of it) then you are showing that you rate your own -blam!- pleasures above your (non-physical) relationship.

- JFKES

  • 02.10.2011 2:06 PM PDT

I know you are but what am I?


Posted by: mahspoonis2big

Posted by: Zon The Great

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Why would a woman want a man to give up fapping and adult videos?

Religious and/or moral reasons

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Better question, why would a man want a woman who would want him to give up those things?


You're saying that you wouldn't want any girl no matter how beautiful or perfect they are, to tell you to give up -blam!-?
Religious relies on faith, not logic. That's not really applicable.

I really could argue that with you, but I'd get b&

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
And no, I wouldn't want a woman that made me change the way I was in that respect, just as she wouldn't want me to make her change the way she was for me. It's a little thing called "compatibility." If she was so perfect for me, she wouldn't expect that from me.


Couples aren't going to agree on everything bro, no matter what. It's called a "compromise"

In addition, this breaks up couples already in marriages. It's possible this issue has never come up before

  • 02.10.2011 2:09 PM PDT

Matrix movies boost my expectations for reality...

I still live a normal day to day life.

  • 02.10.2011 2:10 PM PDT

Don't lase me bro!

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Religious relies on faith, not logic.


Hey, just so you know: Faith = Reason. Faith is a specialized kind of reason that deals with the extra-natural realm. So, please stop smearing us as idiots for having "faith."

Thanks,
R0b3rt R

  • 02.10.2011 2:13 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Mythic Member
  • gamertag: JFKES
  • user homepage:

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me"

- Batman

Posted by: SeriousCat
Matrix movies boost my expectations for reality...

I still live a normal day to day life.
That is because it is an object being treated as a fake reality. In p0rn it is a individual being treated as a fake reality. The difference is in the individual, and thanks to the intercourse nature of the videos.

- JFKES

  • 02.10.2011 2:16 PM PDT

Dating Age

For those looking to vent, get proper advice, or give it to those in need.

Men are always going to objectify women. It's what we do. Men want to watch women in adult videos because of the urge we have to spread our seed among as many females as humanly possible before we drop dead.

No one on this planet has any right telling me I can't watch adult videos nor do they have any right telling me it's morally unacceptable. If a woman has a problem with me doing that (why I would be mentioning it to her I don't know) or anything else in my life then she can -blam!- right off.

  • 02.10.2011 2:23 PM PDT

Don't lase me bro!

Posted by: mahspoonis2big
Perversion isn't mainstream, it's ingrained in your head. People have been "perverted" for as long as they've been having sex.

And that's about as long as we've existed.

Well, in the way the society uses perversion, it means:

the action of perverting something (turning it to a wrong use); "it was a perversion of justice"

Thanks, internet! Anyway, if p0rn (or self-stimulation) is a wrong use, then there must be a right way to deal with sex. Our goal is to find that "right way" not just to do something cuz it "feels good" now.

What do you think?

  • 02.10.2011 2:23 PM PDT

Don't lase me bro!

Posted by: Vgnut117
Men are always going to objectify women. It's what we do. Men want to watch women in adult videos because of the urge we have to spread our seed among as many females as humanly possible before we drop dead.


I'm a man and I don't objectify women. Bam!

  • 02.10.2011 2:26 PM PDT