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Subject: What is it about Halo 2's maps?

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It's frustrating playing Halo 3's and even Reach's multiplayer maps after experiencing Halo 2's unique multiplayer spaces, but it's even more frustrating that I can't put the pieces together and figure out what sets them apart from other games' maps.

Is it the aesthetics? The interactivity (door panel on Zanzibar, teleporter opener thing on Relic, collapsible stalagmites on Waterworks, etc) or just simply Halo 2's amazing gameplay? Or is it all of that put together?

Needless to say, I miss Big Team on Terminal, Relic and Coag. I miss doubles on Gemini. I miss CTF on Colossus. I miss that Wraith on Zanzibar.

I just miss everything about Halo 2's multiplayer, and hope that part of it will live on in future Halo games. <3

  • 02.11.2011 7:18 PM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

It's not the map it's the game...

Those games were not made for MP... I guess. That is the ill that CE had, H3 and Hreach might have similar reasons.

Remake the maps as much as you can but you just cant have fun on them like in H2 for sure.

[Edited on 02.11.2011 7:24 PM PST]

  • 02.11.2011 7:22 PM PDT

Posted by: Sergeant Murph
It's frustrating playing Halo 3's and even Reach's multiplayer maps after experiencing Halo 2's unique multiplayer spaces, but it's even more frustrating that I can't put the pieces together and figure out what sets them apart from other games' maps.

Is it the aesthetics? The interactivity (door panel on Zanzibar, teleporter opener thing on Relic, collapsible stalagmites on Waterworks, etc) or just simply Halo 2's amazing gameplay? Or is it all of that put together?

Needless to say, I miss Big Team on Terminal, Relic and Coag. I miss doubles on Gemini. I miss CTF on Colossus. I miss that Wraith on Zanzibar.

I just miss everything about Halo 2's multiplayer, and hope that part of it will live on in future Halo games. <3
You also have to add-in the Live experience at the time H2 came out. A whole culture was formed quickly and lasted for years. People want that part back but other games cannot provide the same experience.

  • 02.11.2011 7:28 PM PDT

This is actually the stupidest thing ever posted on B.net:

Posted by: the omega man117
Why does everyone hate Halo 2? Maybe its because its the worst game ever next to mario.

Posted by: Sergeant Murph
I miss that Wraith on Zanzibar.

I think you mean Terminal. ^__^

Halo 2 had the best Big Team Battle maps and Game Types for sure in my opinion.

  • 02.11.2011 8:30 PM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

I agree BTB was very fun. The only thing I would add is more players!

100 vs 100 lol.
Posted by: Super PolarBear
Posted by: Sergeant Murph
I miss that Wraith on Zanzibar.

I think you mean Terminal. ^__^

Halo 2 had the best Big Team Battle maps and Game Types for sure in my opinion.

  • 02.11.2011 11:22 PM PDT

This is the average H2 Fanboy.
Xfire: JacobGRocks.
50 in H2/H3? Great, but you still fail at this.


Posted by: totallymassive
I agree BTB was very fun. The only thing I would add is more players!

100 vs 100 lol.
Posted by: Super PolarBear
Posted by: Sergeant Murph
I miss that Wraith on Zanzibar.

I think you mean Terminal. ^__^

Halo 2 had the best Big Team Battle maps and Game Types for sure in my opinion.

There's a game for you

  • 02.12.2011 6:01 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Good to see you, Murph. :D

Halo 2's maps were the best for a multitude of reasons.
1) Competent remakes: We saw Blood Gulch reimagined as Coagulation, Wizard remade as Warlock, Battle Creek as Beaver Creek, Hang 'em High as Tombstone etc.

They were very well done, they kept the same feel as the original map from Halo CE whilst integrating the new features of Halo 2 into it - something that worked much better here than with the CE/Reach remakes.

2) Aesthetics: What can I say? They're beautiful. Relic, Gemini, Backwash, Zanzibar - they all had unique features to their aesthetics. My favourite had to be the stone statue of the San 'Shyuum on Gemini with the huge rotating holographic Halo.

Reach's maps are drawn right from the campaign mode, what made Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3 and Halo Wars stand out was how the multiplayer maps were unique. Built upon the same environmental foundations as those in the campaign, but new spaces.

3) Balance: Everything was designed to counter something else. You have a Banshee, I have Rockets; you have a Ghost, I have a Gauss Hog; you have a Tank, I am going to jack your vehicle.

4) The Golden Triangle: As Lars put it, Halo's core gameplay is made up of 3 things - Grenades, weapons and melee. This is what has made Halo's tried and true formula so very replayable over the years, they have stuck to what worked and improved it. Equipment was balanced because (like Halo 2's weapons) they were each designed to counter each other (Regenerator/Power Drain) whilst making the pacing of the game faster.

Reach introduced Armour Abilities, this has made Halo's gameplay into the Tin Quadrilateral (if you'll pardon the bad humour). I can see why things like Armour Lock is a good concept, but it should only have been in Campaign and Firefight, not in multiplayer.

In conclusion:
A total FU exception has occurred at your location. All system functionality will be terminated. Press any key to power cycle the system. If system does not restart; scream at top of lungs and pound on keypad. If you need to talk to a programmer press any other key Press any key to continue.

  • 02.12.2011 6:37 AM PDT

they dont suck

  • 02.12.2011 9:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: JacobGRocks
Yeah, Hitboxing = fail. For example, a certan user from the maw who has never played Halo 2 Xbox online links to this halo 2 bash video (its much less exreme in acutial gameplay) which shows hitboxing, but it also exists in halo 3, which also has unbalanced weps and n00b armor (recon).


Posted by: ajw34307
Good to see you, Murph. :D

Halo 2's maps were the best for a multitude of reasons.
1) Competent remakes: We saw Blood Gulch reimagined as Coagulation, Wizard remade as Warlock, Battle Creek as Beaver Creek, Hang 'em High as Tombstone etc.

They were very well done, they kept the same feel as the original map from Halo CE whilst integrating the new features of Halo 2 into it - something that worked much better here than with the CE/Reach remakes.

2) Aesthetics: What can I say? They're beautiful. Relic, Gemini, Backwash, Zanzibar - they all had unique features to their aesthetics. My favourite had to be the stone statue of the San 'Shyuum on Gemini with the huge rotating holographic Halo.

Reach's maps are drawn right from the campaign mode, what made Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3 and Halo Wars stand out was how the multiplayer maps were unique. Built upon the same environmental foundations as those in the campaign, but new spaces.

3) Balance: Everything was designed to counter something else. You have a Banshee, I have Rockets; you have a Ghost, I have a Gauss Hog; you have a Tank, I am going to jack your vehicle.

4) The Golden Triangle: As Lars put it, Halo's core gameplay is made up of 3 things - Grenades, weapons and melee. This is what has made Halo's tried and true formula so very replayable over the years, they have stuck to what worked and improved it. Equipment was balanced because (like Halo 2's weapons) they were each designed to counter each other (Regenerator/Power Drain) whilst making the pacing of the game faster.

Reach introduced Armour Abilities, this has made Halo's gameplay into the Tin Quadrilateral (if you'll pardon the bad humour). I can see why things like Armour Lock is a good concept, but it should only have been in Campaign and Firefight, not in multiplayer.

In conclusion:
A total FU exception has occurred at your location. All system functionality will be terminated. Press any key to power cycle the system. If system does not restart; scream at top of lungs and pound on keypad. If you need to talk to a programmer press any other key Press any key to continue.

Don't forget that Gemini was a remake of Duality from the Marathon: Infinity map list. Also, Reach's maps were created for multiplayer first and then inserted into campaign. Halo 2 always has and always will have the best multiplayer maps, in my opinion.

  • 02.12.2011 8:43 PM PDT

-Dillydude-

Its that everything is 90 degrees. in every halo since then theyve focused strongly on graphics. and looking at walls with juts sticking out of them and round corners just look better. apparently.
in halo 2, most walls and drops were perfectly flat, making it easier to drop off, jump on, and step around. i loved halo 2. played it atleast twice a week up until it was taken off.
I dont know if ive gotten my point across how i meant it. But if you go back to halo 2 maps and just look at everything, its shaped how it should be. While halo 3, Reach, and ODST all have circular shapes to everything.

  • 02.12.2011 10:52 PM PDT

Halo 2's maps are ridiculously awesome for exactly the same reason that Halo CE's maps are ridiculously awesome: simplicity.

Reach's maps have little bits and pieces of geometry all over the place. It screws up movement by making you randomly bump up against things, it makes the map flow far too complicated for the designers to manage without forcing it to behave simplistically, and it completely screws over weapon balance by creating all sorts of silly nooks and crannies and line-of-sight weirdnesses for easy long-range weapon bullshlapskie.

Well, and on top of that systemic issue, there are some just plain mind-blowingly bad design choices made in Reach's maps, such as Paradiso's extreme assymetry.

  • 02.13.2011 3:30 PM PDT

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Posted by: totallymassive
It's not the map it's the game...

Those games were not made for MP... I guess. That is the ill that CE had, H3 and Hreach might have similar reasons.

Remake the maps as much as you can but you just cant have fun on them like in H2 for sure.

This. But also, it can be interactivity or interaction with the maps environments or the player it self. Possibly, aesthetics too.

  • 02.13.2011 4:46 PM PDT

This is actually the stupidest thing ever posted on B.net:

Posted by: the omega man117
Why does everyone hate Halo 2? Maybe its because its the worst game ever next to mario.

Posted by: Dillydude
Its that everything is 90 degrees. in every halo since then theyve focused strongly on graphics. and looking at walls with juts sticking out of them and round corners just look better. apparently.
in halo 2, most walls and drops were perfectly flat, making it easier to drop off, jump on, and step around.

I dont know if ive gotten my point across how i meant it. But if you go back to halo 2 maps and just look at everything, its shaped how it should be. While halo 3, Reach, and ODST all have circular shapes to everything.

Posted by: Tupolev
Halo 2's maps are ridiculously awesome for exactly the same reason that Halo CE's maps are ridiculously awesome: simplicity.

Reach's maps have little bits and pieces of geometry all over the place. It screws up movement by making you randomly bump up against things, it makes the map flow far too complicated for the designers to manage without forcing it to behave simplistically, and it completely screws over weapon balance by creating all sorts of silly nooks and crannies and line-of-sight weirdnesses for easy long-range weapon bullshlapskie.

Good posts. Pretty much wraps up what I was going to attempt to say.

[Edited on 02.13.2011 5:39 PM PST]

  • 02.13.2011 5:31 PM PDT

"I wanted to make people happy, if only for an hour."
-Busby Berkley

RIP Halo 2

Everything about the Halo 2 maps makes them better. I used to hate Halo 3's maps, but they're awesome compared to the ones in Reach.

  • 02.14.2011 11:29 PM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

I experinced the same sorta disappointment with H3 and Hreach (I played the beta)...

Hopefully they will bring back H2 so we can play on those great maps again. Also I'm hopeing they add 10 vs. 10 or 12 vs. 12.
Posted by: RussellTheHippy
Everything about the Halo 2 maps makes them better. I used to hate Halo 3's maps, but they're awesome compared to the ones in Reach.

  • 02.14.2011 11:37 PM PDT
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Most were symmetrical arena type maps which are a lot of fun to play on. The gameplay was obviously much better as well. I miss H2 so damn much sometimes :(

  • 02.15.2011 2:01 AM PDT
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I prefer them easily due to their size. For some reason Bungie decided to make maps bigger and bigger for every game, and in Reach they completly forgot to make small maps for the hardcore community.

Thats not to say Halo 2 didn't have poor maps, it did. Relic , Backwash, Tombstone, Desolation, Burial Mounds and Gemini, those where probaly the worst maps. But i actually had fun with them anyway, they where just not so well designed for competetive play.

On the other hand, Warlock, Midship, Lockout, Sancturary and Elongation those where probaly the best.
The rest i haven't mentioned where also very fun to play.
The best of the BTB maps was Headlong, Coagulation, Waterworks and containment.

Halo 2 had a good mix of small maps, medium sized maps and BTB maps. But most of them looks great too, nice astetics.

  • 02.15.2011 3:16 AM PDT

I agree that it was mostly the game that helped the maps be amazing, because I mean, look at all these remakes of the H2 maps that kinda suck on Reach.

Lockout, Warlock, Midship, and Sanctuary were my favorite because they were tiny-ish arena sized maps.

Hell, I have great memories on Turf even. Every map I remember as being good, there wasn't really a map that I despised, except Burial Mounds haha.

  • 02.15.2011 4:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: Chappy1190
I agree that it was mostly the game that helped the maps be amazing, because I mean, look at all these remakes of the H2 maps that kinda suck on Reach.

Lockout, Warlock, Midship, and Sanctuary were my favorite because they were tiny-ish arena sized maps.

Hell, I have great memories on Turf even. Every map I remember as being good, there wasn't really a map that I despised, except Burial Mounds haha.
Yup, the maps in Halo 2 were awesome, but even with those awesome maps I would still feel frustrated with Halo 3/Reach's obese, weak Spartans and their weird gameplay changes.

  • 02.17.2011 9:51 PM PDT
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halo 2 still the best game in the series. long live halo 2.

Dam, I miss the old days playing halo 2 with my old brothers in arms. Thank you my old friends for giving me this account, I shall continue our legacy.

The game, its gametypes, the maps design, and its layout allowed Halo 2's maps to be perfect. While the maps did have some flaws and bugs, those flaws added to the games overall experience to be more fun and exciting. It allowed us to take the game to the next level and allowed us to do some off map exploration (like in containment, terminal, ivory tower, etc).

  • 02.18.2011 1:47 AM PDT

Halo 2 for Life!

That was very well said.
Posted by: JB 199
The game, its gametypes, the maps design, and its layout allowed Halo 2's maps to be perfect. While the maps did have some flaws and bugs, those flaws added to the games overall experience to be more fun and exciting. It allowed us to take the game to the next level and allowed us to do some off map exploration (like in containment, terminal, ivory tower, etc).


Even though Halo 2 didn't have a perfect story that captured my imagination like Halo CE did it captured my imagination with its MP. MP matches were like a new story being told each time and the maps were a major part of it because they could be used in so many different ways and depending on your opponent and what ones plan was each match proved different each time.

  • 02.18.2011 2:55 AM PDT

The maps and gameplay got worse. The main thing that was awesome about Halo 2 maps was that they were perfect size BTB maps were key on and pretty much every other map fit 4v4's perfectly for fast gameplay. Think about how well these maps supported all 2v2 4v4 AND 8v8. BTB was on Lockout and it worked but at the same time you could have a perfect 1v1 on it. And Bungie pretty much said screw any arena style maps or symmetrical style maps (warlock, midship, foundation). Have you seen any map in Reach like such? Symmetrical arena maps the most fair and fast paced you can get.

  • 02.18.2011 10:59 AM PDT

They just didn't suck. and like someone before me said. They weret just campaign maps with the exits blocked off by random rocks or something. They were in the style of campaign but were a new space. They were also very nice looking. Sometimes I would just look over the landscape. like I would in real life. Reach's maps ae slaped togeather from campaign and are just terrible. The only good maps to play on in that game are the forerunner maps. the few that there are.

  • 02.18.2011 11:40 AM PDT

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