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Subject: Post-War Universe.


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted By: anton1792
They have also lost their afterlife belief. I wonder how that will affect their warrior culture. If nothing happens after death, will they be so willing to put their lives on the line? Let us face it, no Sangheili, in their mind, has ever truly faced death. They believed that they would die only to awaken in some bloody afterlife.


Actually the Elites still believe their old religion and the Great Journey, they just know that the Halo's are not the key as they once thought. They're a little lost for a direction to take their beliefs in because the Prophets are gone, but they still believe most of their religion.


The Return implies otherwise. It's as if the entire species has lost their faith and are completely unsure of what to do with themselves. It'd be as if the Bible was actually 100% proven to be false. How many people would spiral into depression, those who wasted their lives following such strict life styles and going to church and all that. They have nothing to live for anymore.



I only know what Halopedian tells me and what my friend knows, 'cause I haven't read it yet, but both have said that the Elites still hold to the Forerunners being gods and that there is a Great Journey. What I took from what my friend and Halopedian said is that they don't know what direction to take with their beliefs, as what they used to know was based in lies.

  • 02.16.2011 6:14 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: OrderedComa
I only know what Halopedian tells me

There's your problem. Halopedia is written by people, people who have their own opinions and interpretations, some of which inevitably finds it's way into an article. It's better to go read the books yourself, and if need be come to your own conclusion or have a discussion here.

  • 02.16.2011 6:17 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Point of view is also important. Does the Shipmaster represent the opinions of all Sangheili?

  • 02.16.2011 6:19 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: anton1792
Point of view is also important. Does the Shipmaster represent the opinions of all Sangheili?

Exactly. Each Sangheili is probably going through the same thing. It all depends on how many can adapt to life without their religion and how man cannot. If a large portion of the population can't let go of their beliefs then their may be a civil war. The Return implies that the injured human would be tortured for information, hardly a peaceful act if it is the case, so perhaps there may be hostilities with humanity by a splinter faction of Sangheili refusing to accept them as Reclaimers.

  • 02.16.2011 6:25 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: switch 104 sv
Posted by: anton1792
Point of view is also important. Does the Shipmaster represent the opinions of all Sangheili?

Exactly. Each Sangheili is probably going through the same thing. It all depends on how many can adapt to life without their religion and how man cannot. If a large portion of the population can't let go of their beliefs then their may be a civil war. The Return implies that the injured human would be tortured for information, hardly a peaceful act if it is the case, so perhaps there may be hostilities with humanity by a splinter faction of Sangheili refusing to accept them as Reclaimers.

Yeah. If there are going to be any more wars, it most likely would not be between species, but between ideologies and beliefs being advocated by members of all different races.

If that N'tho 'Sroam biography is anything to go by, it suggests that there is perhaps a civil war on the horizon. A growing number of Human sympathysers and a number of Sangheili who still hold on to old grudges and beliefs. It could get ugly.

  • 02.16.2011 6:41 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: switch 104 sv
Posted by: anton1792
Point of view is also important. Does the Shipmaster represent the opinions of all Sangheili?

Exactly. Each Sangheili is probably going through the same thing. It all depends on how many can adapt to life without their religion and how man cannot. If a large portion of the population can't let go of their beliefs then their may be a civil war. The Return implies that the injured human would be tortured for information, hardly a peaceful act if it is the case, so perhaps there may be hostilities with humanity by a splinter faction of Sangheili refusing to accept them as Reclaimers.

Yeah. If there are going to be any more wars, it most likely would not be between species, but between ideologies and beliefs being advocated by members of all different races.

If that N'tho 'Sroam biography is anything to go by, it suggests that there is perhaps a civil war on the horizon. A growing number of Human sympathysers and a number of Sangheili who still hold on to old grudges and beliefs. It could get ugly.

Arby and Chief reunited, fighting side by side just like old times!

  • 02.16.2011 6:44 PM PDT


Posted by: Gottalovec4
I think the UNSC has a solid chance to rebuild. The remaining Inner Colonies would be able to contribute large amounts of ship building industry and might to restore Earth and it's manufacturing areas.

The Portal contains large amounts of Forerunner artifacts. All ONI has to do is get one of the Spartan IIs who didn't make the augmentations and use them to open portions of the structure. From there knowing the familiarity of Humanity with Forerunner tech they could easily reverse engineer the tech and create much more efficient weaponry and ships.

One common misconception I find annoying is that there are only 200 million humans left. This is not the case.

In the Beasterium it only talks about Earth as that was the only human planet the Forerunners concerned themselves with. There are 200 million humans on Earth. We know there are still a dozen Inner Colonies the Covenant bypassed to get to Reach. If there are between 200 and 700 million humans on each colony Humanity's numbers are still in the billions.


Nope, Frank O'Connor himself states there is inly 200million left in the "story so far" part of the Halo: Legends disc 2.

  • 02.16.2011 7:16 PM PDT


Posted by: switch 104 sv
Posted by: OrderedComa
I only know what Halopedian tells me

There's your problem. Halopedia is written by people, people who have their own opinions and interpretations, some of which inevitably finds it's way into an article. It's better to go read the books yourself, and if need be come to your own conclusion or have a discussion here.


Sorry for double post ):

TBH, it is actually directly stated in the Return that the Elites still believe in the Journey and the Forerunners' divinity. Its also directly stated their only religious issue is that they have no means of communicating with their gods without the Prophets.

He was right, they still believe, its just that they don't know what to do with their faith. Losing faith and not knowing what to do are two completely different things.

I think we'll help them out. The UNSC must realize that the Elites totally saved our asses; we owe them a few favors.

  • 02.16.2011 7:20 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: switch 104 sv
Posted by: OrderedComa
I only know what Halopedian tells me

There's your problem. Halopedia is written by people, people who have their own opinions and interpretations, some of which inevitably finds it's way into an article. It's better to go read the books yourself, and if need be come to your own conclusion or have a discussion here.


Sorry for double post ):

TBH, it is actually directly stated in the Return that the Elites still believe in the Journey and the Forerunners' divinity. Its also directly stated their only religious issue is that they have no means of communicating with their gods without the Prophets.

He was right, they still believe, its just that they don't know what to do with their faith. Losing faith and not knowing what to do are two completely different things.

I think we'll help them out. The UNSC must realize that the Elites totally saved our asses; we owe them a few favors.


Exactly, they still believe, they just don't know where to go with what they believe. The only thing that has changed is they know that the Halos are not the answer to the Great Journey.

On the subject of relations after the war, things obviously won't be "kiss-and-makeup" of course, there's still the whole issue of what the Elites did to Humanity standing in the way of true friendship, but I think a lot of humans, at least the leaders, will take an attitude like Hood's at the end of Halo 3, respect for the Elites changing sides and helping Humanity at the end, but still hating what they did to them.

At worst I think both sides will be indifferent to each other and try to have little to do with the other. Eventually though I think they will probably come into some sort of official alliance. Especially considering the state of both sides at the end of the war.

  • 02.16.2011 7:28 PM PDT

"Were it so easy..." -Thel Vadame.

I've always imagined the Sangheili and Humans forming a strong bond, not to close knitted but a trustful relationship. Brutes-- disaster. Remaining Unggoy are left to the dark and the Kig-Yar re adapt to their pirating parties.

I do think it would be interesting that the Humans advance onward to study the Forerunners, and take up some of their existing technology. But not to far- not so they end up like the Covenant- not using their own technology and not advancing on their own off of everything they already have.

  • 02.16.2011 7:42 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
TBH, it is actually directly stated in the Return that the Elites still believe in the Journey and the Forerunners' divinity. Its also directly stated their only religious issue is that they have no means of communicating with their gods without the Prophets.

It is? It has been nearly a year since I read Evolutions, please forgive me. Where abouts? This Shipmaster still holds the Forerunner in divinity I remember, but I do not remember him still believing in the Journey.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
He was right, they still believe, its just that they don't know what to do with their faith. Losing faith and not knowing what to do are two completely different things.

What is the truth of that belief in an absolute sense though? We know that the Forerunner are not divine; we know that the Journey is not anything spiritual, but rather a metaphor for the Forerunner exodus from this Galaxy. The path that the Shipmaster has chosen will lead him to the truth. The absolute truth would be a disaster to the Sangheili.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I think we'll help them out. The UNSC must realize that the Elites totally saved our asses; we owe them a few favors.

O_o

Maybe it is just me, but the 23 billion Humans and dozens of ruined colonies speak otherwise. I would argue that the Elites have still not done enough to absolve themselves. They left only 200 million Humans alive. They virtually saved nothing with respect to what they destroyed.

No one deserves to be honored for doing what is blatantly expected of them. They claim to be honorable. Well, they finally did that. However it is something that they expect of themselves, so why should it be rewarded? There was personal gain in the initial alliance as well. At Joyous Exultation, the NOVA obliterated most of their ships and armies. So it is arguable whether the alliance was done through altruistic intentions or just to save themselves. If it was the latter then it definitely, I think, would be undeserving of any favors.

Really though, for them to kill 23'000'000'000 people and then want a reward for saving 200 million is...unbelievable.

  • 02.16.2011 8:08 PM PDT

I'll remain a soldier until the war is won.

The Humans i think would want to avoid any Major Conflicts at all costs. We would know that we just dont have the resources anymore. Let alone enough bodies, people to fight on the frontlines and Man the ships.

It would turn into a giant cleanup effort for humanity as a whole. Picking up whats left of our shattered lives and worlds as we begin to rebuild. Earth and the Space around it would need to be cleaned up, the floating dead hulks from the first and second battles of earth cluttering much of the outter atomosphere, makeing travel dangorous if not impossible.

The African contenant would probobly need to be quarentined, until we could verify that ALL of the Flood that had managed to land on earth where dead. Humanity would live in a possible state of fear of another flood outbreak, devoteing fraction of their resources to quarentine, procautions, and possibly research for a cure.

That said Humanity would also begin to look for new worlds, to rebuild and begin again...
As for the small population ive often thought that mabey clones might do the trick for a bit? probobly not but just a thought.
More likely it might be for women how it was during the -blam!--era of Germany. In That medals and rewards would be given to women who produce large familys of children. I think our vastly decreased population would be of some concern and that soultions may be sought out.

After a few years and humanity rebuilt to a point where its stable enough, im sure that there would be a much bigger hunt for forerunner artifacts than the immidiant post-war era.

As for the Elites im sure that they would prosper immensily economicly wise following the end of the war, while hunting down the remaining loyalists.
Shaky treaties would no doubt be established with Humanity. However despite old grudges and scars that are still fresh in humanitys mind, no doubt humanity would want to avoid a conflict with the elites at all costs.

Rebuild, Relocate, and Repopulate. That would be our main objectives during the post war era.
The fires of Industry would burn bright as we rebuilt and the econemy would boom, with War Bonds being re-emburssed and companies offering any and all services to help rebuild.

  • 02.16.2011 8:15 PM PDT

I'll remain a soldier until the war is won.


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
TBH, it is actually directly stated in the Return that the Elites still believe in the Journey and the Forerunners' divinity. Its also directly stated their only religious issue is that they have no means of communicating with their gods without the Prophets.

It is? It has been nearly a year since I read Evolutions, please forgive me. Where abouts? This Shipmaster still holds the Forerunner in divinity I remember, but I do not remember him still believing in the Journey.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
He was right, they still believe, its just that they don't know what to do with their faith. Losing faith and not knowing what to do are two completely different things.

What is the truth of that belief in an absolute sense though? We know that the Forerunner are not divine; we know that the Journey is not anything spiritual, but rather a metaphor for the Forerunner exodus from this Galaxy. The path that the Shipmaster has chosen will lead him to the truth. The absolute truth would be a disaster to the Sangheili.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I think we'll help them out. The UNSC must realize that the Elites totally saved our asses; we owe them a few favors.

O_o

Maybe it is just me, but the 23 billion Humans and dozens of ruined colonies speak otherwise. I would argue that the Elites have still not done enough to absolve themselves. They left only 200 million Humans alive. They virtually saved nothing with respect to what they destroyed.

No one deserves to be honored for doing what is blatantly expected of them. They claim to be honorable. Well, they finally did that. However it is something that they expect of themselves, so why should it be rewarded? There was personal gain in the initial alliance as well. At Joyous Exultation, the NOVA obliterated most of their ships and armies. So it is arguable whether the alliance was done through altruistic intentions or just to save themselves. If it was the latter then it definitely, I think, would be undeserving of any favors.

Really though, for them to kill 23'000'000'000 people and then want a reward for saving 200 million is...unbelievable.


Despite the fact of what they did to us, the horrifying crimes and attrocities that they commitied against us.
Im possitive that the UNSC would know that they had to shove those feelings aside, wanting to avoid a Major Conflict at ALL costs. We just cant afford it. At all.
Its the old addage, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Eventualy, after a generation or 2 im sure, the issues of the crimes against us might be old news, so to speak. Much like Modern day Germany, we cant blame the sins of one generation on all future generations. If the shaky treaties that where establised during the post war manage to last that long, im sure that we would be able to form a strong alliance.




As a side note, although we cant hold a candle to what they did to us, im sure that we caused a number of attrocities and sins against the Elites as well. The NOVA bomb for example, despite the fact that it ultimently saved our ass's.

[Edited on 02.16.2011 8:25 PM PST]

  • 02.16.2011 8:18 PM PDT

I am the 21st century Jim Jones

research for a cure.

This has always interested me. During the Human-Flood war hundreds of thousands of years ago, The Humans apparently found a cure for the flood. Connect this to Sergeant Johnson's Boren's Syndrome as a result of SPARTAN I augmentations. Quite possibly, this could lead to answers seeing as The Flood would be of the utmost concern for all races after the war, that, and the possibility of Forerunner Sentinels attacking.

  • 02.16.2011 8:23 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: scene4kaos
research for a cure.

This has always interested me. During the Human-Flood war hundreds of thousands of years ago, The Humans apparently found a cure for the flood. Connect this to Sergeant Johnson's Boren's Syndrome as a result of SPARTAN I augmentations. Quite possibly, this could lead to answers seeing as The Flood would be of the utmost concern for all races after the war, that, and the possibility of Forerunner Sentinels attacking.


Imagine if John had actually given ONI that crystal with Johnsons DNA map or whatever, which would've resulted in his death. And now imagine that the "one in a million chance of a cure" was found. The flood are now only a threat to the Covenant. This would've been a MASSIVE savior for humanity.

  • 02.16.2011 8:26 PM PDT

I'll remain a soldier until the war is won.


Posted by: scene4kaos
research for a cure.

This has always interested me. During the Human-Flood war hundreds of thousands of years ago, The Humans apparently found a cure for the flood. Connect this to Sergeant Johnson's Boren's Syndrome as a result of SPARTAN I augmentations. Quite possibly, this could lead to answers seeing as The Flood would be of the utmost concern for all races after the war, that, and the possibility of Forerunner Sentinels attacking.


Oh, now theres a thought. The Setinals... Would we worry about them? They aided us enough... turing on us in the end, but for understandable reasons. Programming and all that. We wouldnt need to worry i dont think. Theyre at their installations and such where they belong and will stay there.
BEsides, we're reclaimers

  • 02.16.2011 8:28 PM PDT

I'll remain a soldier until the war is won.


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: scene4kaos
research for a cure.

This has always interested me. During the Human-Flood war hundreds of thousands of years ago, The Humans apparently found a cure for the flood. Connect this to Sergeant Johnson's Boren's Syndrome as a result of SPARTAN I augmentations. Quite possibly, this could lead to answers seeing as The Flood would be of the utmost concern for all races after the war, that, and the possibility of Forerunner Sentinels attacking.


Imagine if John had actually given ONI that crystal with Johnsons DNA map or whatever, which would've resulted in his death. And now imagine that the "one in a million chance of a cure" was found. The flood are now only a threat to the Covenant. This would've been a MASSIVE savior for humanity.


Can you honestly say you would have done it?
I wouldnt have. ....i couldnt.

  • 02.16.2011 8:29 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: REVOLUTION 25

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: scene4kaos
research for a cure.

This has always interested me. During the Human-Flood war hundreds of thousands of years ago, The Humans apparently found a cure for the flood. Connect this to Sergeant Johnson's Boren's Syndrome as a result of SPARTAN I augmentations. Quite possibly, this could lead to answers seeing as The Flood would be of the utmost concern for all races after the war, that, and the possibility of Forerunner Sentinels attacking.


Imagine if John had actually given ONI that crystal with Johnsons DNA map or whatever, which would've resulted in his death. And now imagine that the "one in a million chance of a cure" was found. The flood are now only a threat to the Covenant. This would've been a MASSIVE savior for humanity.


Can you honestly say you would have done it?
I wouldnt have. ....i couldnt.


I wouldn't of done it, but I'm just saying.

  • 02.16.2011 8:31 PM PDT

I'll remain a soldier until the war is won.

Indeed. and i understand. BUt we can talk about what ifs all day.
This is for what if's not yet established :)

  • 02.16.2011 8:32 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: REVOLUTION 25
Despite the fact of what they did to us, the horrifying crimes and attrocities that they commitied against us.
Im possitive that the UNSC would know that they had to shove those feelings aside, wanting to avoid a Major Conflict at ALL costs. We just cant afford it. At all.

It works both ways though. The Elites cannot afford it either, but I agree.

Posted by: REVOLUTION 25
As a side note, although we cant hold a candle to what they did to us, im sure that we caused a number of attrocities and sins against the Elites as well. The NOVA bomb for example, despite the fact that it ultimently saved our ass's.

If a thief breaks into your home and seriously injures, perhaps even kills (God forbid), members of your family and in the end you kill the thief in self defense and in defense of your family, should you be punished?

The Elites are a warrior race. They know full well what can happen on the battlefield: They can be killed. They cannot complain, it is their choice to have their way of life like that. They also chose to attack Humanity. If they wanted to blame anyone then they should blame the San-Shyuum, but they should have nothing on Humanity. It is their fault for being so close minded.

  • 02.16.2011 8:34 PM PDT

I'll remain a soldier until the war is won.

Posted by: REVOLUTION 25
As a side note, although we cant hold a candle to what they did to us, im sure that we caused a number of attrocities and sins against the Elites as well. The NOVA bomb for example, despite the fact that it ultimently saved our ass's.[/quote]
If a thief breaks into your home and seriously injures, perhaps even kills (God forbid), members of your family and in the end you kill the thief in self defense and in defense of your family, should you be punished?

The Elites are a warrior race. They know full well what can happen on the battlefield: They can be killed. They cannot complain, it is their choice to have their way of life like that. They also chose to attack Humanity. If they wanted to blame anyone then they should blame the San-Shyuum, but they should have nothing on Humanity. It is their fault for being so close minded.


Very true.
But i was more getting at the fact that they had their own reasons to not really want to stay allied with us, just as we have ours.
I guess i didnt really establish that point.

  • 02.16.2011 8:47 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: REVOLUTION 25
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: REVOLUTION 25
As a side note, although we cant hold a candle to what they did to us, im sure that we caused a number of attrocities and sins against the Elites as well. The NOVA bomb for example, despite the fact that it ultimently saved our ass's.

If a thief breaks into your home and seriously injures, perhaps even kills (God forbid), members of your family and in the end you kill the thief in self defense and in defense of your family, should you be punished?

The Elites are a warrior race. They know full well what can happen on the battlefield: They can be killed. They cannot complain, it is their choice to have their way of life like that. They also chose to attack Humanity. If they wanted to blame anyone then they should blame the San-Shyuum, but they should have nothing on Humanity. It is their fault for being so close minded.


Very true.
But i was more getting at the fact that they had their own reasons to not really want to stay allied with us, just as we have ours.
I guess i didnt really establish that point.

Mm'kay. I am still of the belief that there is an alliance afterwards. There is quite a few things to suggest it I think.

However, if it turns out that the Elites fail to recognize or accept that it is their own fault that relations failed and instead blame the failure on Humanity for inflicting too much harm on their race during the war then that is beyond petty. Not entirely sure that they would be worth it in that case.

  • 02.16.2011 9:01 PM PDT

I am the 21st century Jim Jones

I am still of the belief that there is an alliance afterwards.

An Alliance, albeit, an uneasyone

  • 02.18.2011 1:20 PM PDT

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