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Subject: Was Halo 2 really that much better?

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
"Team shoot the wraith!"
"What's a team shoot and what's a wraith?!"
"It means we all shoot at the big blue thing together!"
"Okay!"
*starts betraying blue teammate*

I never played Halo 2 or CE so I can only draw conclusions from what I've seen.

I come on to forums and the general consensus from competitive players seems to be
CE>>>>>>>>H2>>>>>>& gt;>h3>Reach.

And all I can do is say IDUNNOLOL
I have no doubt that CE was the best, but when I see Halo 2 gameplay I end up baffled that people think it was so much better than H3. The plasma pistol seems retarded, the aim assist seemed like auto-aim, and BXR seemed... idunno.

I see people on Reach saying faster kill times means you don't have to go in packs, increasing individual skill gap. But how can that be true in H2 when you can literally shoot the air 2 feet next to a guy's head and snipe? I'm pulling this from the "Halo 2 noobified" video.

I guess in terms of core gameplay I have no clue and I'll take your word for it that the maps and kill speeds were much better than H3, but from what I've seen, Halo 3 took more individual skill.


But hey, I don't know. I'm just looking for an explanation as to why the competitive community looks down so much on H3 and seem to almost ignore H2.

  • 02.17.2011 2:12 PM PDT

What the hell is a signature?

Eh, I'd say they're the same.

  • 02.17.2011 2:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

CE - Didn't play much MP.

Extremely balanced.
Every weapon had a purpose and every weapon was balanced.
3SK!!
Little-no bullet magnetism.
Little-no auto-aim.
Beatdown system that was actually fair. None of this BS "im going to look up in the sky and still hit you".
Campaign was amazing.

H2 - Played LAN and a bit online

Fast paced.
Great maps.
Competitive.
Balanced.
SKILL GAP.
AWESOME CAMPAIGN.
Crazy individual skill needed.
Perfect ranking system.

  • 02.17.2011 2:28 PM PDT

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
"Team shoot the wraith!"
"What's a team shoot and what's a wraith?!"
"It means we all shoot at the big blue thing together!"
"Okay!"
*starts betraying blue teammate*


Posted by: Mike Huntt
SKILL GAP.
Can you explain why and how?
Like... I can't understand how this can be true after watching 'Halo 2 noobified'

If you can pick that video apart then I can say Halo 2 was more skillful than Halo 3 without much doubt.

  • 02.17.2011 2:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

Have a look at Halo 3 vs Halo CE.

I'll get back to you on the Skill Gap thing soon. Kinda busy at work atm.

  • 02.17.2011 3:19 PM PDT

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
"Team shoot the wraith!"
"What's a team shoot and what's a wraith?!"
"It means we all shoot at the big blue thing together!"
"Okay!"
*starts betraying blue teammate*


Posted by: Mike Huntt
Have a look at Halo 3 vs Halo CE.

I'll get back to you on the Skill Gap thing soon. Kinda busy at work atm.
K. I'll be looking forward to a nice explanation.

  • 02.17.2011 3:32 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

I went outside today. The graphics were AMAZING. The gameplay WASN"T.

Maybe I should cry for help
Maybe I should kill myself
Blame it on my ADD baby

Halo 2 was extremely competitive as it generally allowed the better player to win.

If you were good enough, you could completely destroy a whole team by yourself. Yes, it had ridiculous aim assist, but it didn't affect the outcome of the better player winning.

Halo 2's maps were also much better competitively. They had great cover, great sightlines, allowed great movement had areas that were difficult to control, but if you could, gave you a huge advantage.

The BXR and Double/quad shot, took extreme amounts of practice to get down. They themselves had a skill gap. Sure I could quadshot, but the person on the other team could do it consistently and could aim better. He is the better player.

Sure, there is a lot of nostalgia, but it was a great game.

I can't really speak for Halo CE though. I only ever played the campaign, except for several lan parties with friends.

  • 02.17.2011 3:47 PM PDT

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There were so many small things that seperated skilled players from average players.

For example, in a melee battle the good kids crouched so the bad kids would melee the air above you.

In H3, your melee autotracks to them and that tactic became extinct.

In Halo 3, some kid runs at you AR's a blazin, you get killed, and it's lame.

In h2, you BXR the kid and he dies for playing like a tard.

  • 02.17.2011 3:49 PM PDT
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Junior Dos Santos, know the name, he's the future.

BLACK POWER!

H3>All other Halo games
CoD> All other halo games except H3

  • 02.17.2011 4:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: Frasier Crane
I'm not making excuses. I never claimed to be good. I have never played any colonel better than me though.


Top 1% Overall Player for H3 on Halocharts
50 Team Slayer Gen and BTB 5 Star


Posted by: raiderftball64
H3>All other Halo games
CoD> All other halo games except H3

  • 02.17.2011 4:15 PM PDT

Simply put: NO!

Whoever says Halo 2 had the best multi-player experience in the series are wearing these.

By all means, I'm not implying Halo 2 is bad. In fact, it's a great game. But give me a break, it's far from the flawless multi-player masterpiece many fanboys claim it to be. Sure it may have contained the best maps in the series, but it also contained the worse weapon balance and had the most over-sized hitboxes. Halo 3's maps don't hold a candle to Halo 2's maps, but it had reasonable hit-box radius and FAR better weapon balance, including a better melee system.

Multi-player wise: Halo 3 > Halo: CE > Halo 2 > Halo: Reach

  • 02.17.2011 4:35 PM PDT

Posted by: st3ven9640
There were so many small things that seperated skilled players from average players.

For example, in a melee battle the good kids crouched so the bad kids would melee the air above you.

In H3, your melee autotracks to them and that tactic became extinct.

Wow... I can't believe how badly nostalgia clouds the judgement of an individual's mind this badly. Most of these criticisms can be pointed to Halo 2 as well. In fact, auto-tracking is far worse in Halo 2's melee and hit-detections was far more inconsistent.

  • 02.17.2011 4:39 PM PDT

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
"Team shoot the wraith!"
"What's a team shoot and what's a wraith?!"
"It means we all shoot at the big blue thing together!"
"Okay!"
*starts betraying blue teammate*


Posted by: raiderftball64
H3>All other Halo games
I'm inclined to agree because all I've played is H3 and Reach and well.



Reach is bad. Really bad.

  • 02.17.2011 4:41 PM PDT

Posted by: kil1ertomatog
Reach is bad. Really bad.

No, no it isn't. Is it a great game? Nah. But is it a terrible game? Absolutely not.

This, on the other hand, is a bad game.


[Edited on 02.17.2011 4:53 PM PST]

  • 02.17.2011 4:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

Skill Gap was achieved in Halo 2 mainly by the pace of the game.

In Halo 2, you died REALLY fast.

4 shot (HITSCAN).
BxR.
BxB.
Double/triple/quad shot.
Fast movement.
Near-perfect map layout.
Amazing Sniper.
Nade launching (lol so fun)
QUICKSCOPING!

Every single one of these had their own skill levels.

You couldn't just go into LW and AR Derpdown your way to a 45 like in Halo 3. A 45 in Halo 2 was either modded/cheated for or the player was amazing. I think the bell curve maxed out at a skewed value of around 20, maybe even lower, and as the levels got higher, the amount of players got lower, which is how it should be. However, there is a significant drop in players after the 32-3 mark. FAR more so, than Halo 3.

In Halo 2, you HAD to be good. You HAD to get the aforementioned qualities down-pat and perfect to get a high level. Anything in the 35-40 level was about equal to a 50 in Halo 3.

The reason for this?

You needed to be able to the button glitches.
You needed to be able to 4 shot.

Sometimes the easiest things create this biggest skill gap. If 4 shotting was easier in Halo 2, then more people could do it, therefore it was a requirement to be any good at all. Add on top of this the double shot, which would get you to the next tier. Then you have the BxRs and the triple/quad shots and you get to the top tier.

If you could pull all these off cleanly, consistently and quickly, you were at the top of the pecking order.

In Halo 3, it is nothing like that. There is a definite learning curve, but not like Halo 2. Halo 3 you can AR someone to death, the Rockets are overpowered, the beatdown system is even worse than Halo 2, and ridiculous compared to CE. The autoaim is crazy, although in Halo 2, it was pretty bad as well, mainly on the BR.

The main differences on the H2 BR vs. the H3 BR are:

Halo 2:

Hitscan.
One packet.

Halo 3.

Spread.
Damage drop off over distance.
3 packets (one for each bullet).

TBC - Lunch break!

  • 02.17.2011 5:00 PM PDT

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Posted by: TehTerminator
Posted by: st3ven9640
There were so many small things that seperated skilled players from average players.

For example, in a melee battle the good kids crouched so the bad kids would melee the air above you.

In H3, your melee autotracks to them and that tactic became extinct.

Wow... I can't believe how badly nostalgia clouds the judgement of an individual's mind this badly. Most of these criticisms can be pointed to Halo 2 as well. In fact, auto-tracking is far worse in Halo 2's melee and hit-detections was far more inconsistent.


1. You are BAD.

2. Doubt you played H2 even remotely competitively.

  • 02.17.2011 5:00 PM PDT

Posted by: st3ven9640
1. You are BAD.

2. Doubt you played H2 even remotely competitively.

Christ, you sound like one of those coked up New Jersey fanboys you repeatingly yells on the mic for not playing professionally just because I stole a kill.

Yes, I have played Halo 2 competitively. I was pretty damn good at the game, and I wasn't even trying half the time.

I had to use the following strategies.

- n00b combo
- n00b stick a.k.a. the Plasma sword that lunges the player through 1/3 of the map
- Battle Rifle = CE's pistol in disguise
- Glitches (Like SuperJump)
- Idiotic combinations that are easy to pull-off.

I've played MANY other first-person shooters on the f***ing PC that were far more balanced than Halo 2, and I sincerely doubt you've even heard of them.

- Quake I, II, & III
- Unreal Tourmanet, 2003, & 2004
- Starsiege Tribes, Tribes 2, & Tribes: Vengeance
- Battlefield 1942 & Battlefield 2
- Return to Castle Wolfenstein
- Call of Duty (The original on the PC, COD4 wasn't the first COD game I've played)
- Counter-Strike (Obvious pick)
- Rainbow Six & Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear

Yes, unlike the blind Halo fanboys, I've played games before I even touched the original Xbox's controller.

  • 02.17.2011 5:15 PM PDT

Posted by: Mike Huntt
Skill Gap was achieved in Halo 2 mainly by the pace of the game.

In Halo 2, you died REALLY fast.

4 shot (HITSCAN).
BxR.
BxB.
Double/triple/quad shot.
Fast movement.
Near-perfect map layout.
Amazing Sniper.
Nade launching (lol so fun)
QUICKSCOPING!

Every single one of these had their own skill levels.

You couldn't just go into LW and AR Derpdown your way to a 45 like in Halo 3. A 45 in Halo 2 was either modded/cheated for or the player was amazing. I think the bell curve maxed out at a skewed value of around 20, maybe even lower, and as the levels got higher, the amount of players got lower, which is how it should be. However, there is a significant drop in players after the 32-3 mark. FAR more so, than Halo 3.

In Halo 2, you HAD to be good. You HAD to get the aforementioned qualities down-pat and perfect to get a high level. Anything in the 35-40 level was about equal to a 50 in Halo 3.

The reason for this?

You needed to be able to the button glitches.
You needed to be able to 4 shot.

Sometimes the easiest things create this biggest skill gap. If 4 shotting was easier in Halo 2, then more people could do it, therefore it was a requirement to be any good at all. Add on top of this the double shot, which would get you to the next tier. Then you have the BxRs and the triple/quad shots and you get to the top tier.

If you could pull all these off cleanly, consistently and quickly, you were at the top of the pecking order.

In Halo 3, it is nothing like that. There is a definite learning curve, but not like Halo 2. Halo 3 you can AR someone to death, the Rockets are overpowered, the beatdown system is even worse than Halo 2, and ridiculous compared to CE. The autoaim is crazy, although in Halo 2, it was pretty bad as well, mainly on the BR.

The main differences on the H2 BR vs. the H3 BR are:

Halo 2:

Hitscan.
One packet.

Halo 3.

Spread.
Damage drop off over distance.
3 packets (one for each bullet).

TBC - Lunch break!

The huge amount contradictions made in your posts just made me laugh even more. You seriously believe quick-scoping, cheap button-combinations and faster kills allowed more skill? ANY BLOOD IDIOTS COULD PEFORM AND MASTER THEM! There are no methodical tactical strategy required within Halo 2, you could have your reticule slightly off from your target and not have it highlighted in red, yet still land a perfect head shot. Just because the gameplay is fasterpaced, doesn't mean it takes more skill. It just allows for more randomness, and cheaper kills. In fact, Rocket Launchers in Halo 2 had the blast radius of a nuclear bomb, and it doesn't help that the Lock-On instantly make vehicles into boob-traps.

It's all pathetic, and the only reason people enjoyed it because it was overly-blatherskite ruga billingsgate gawp accessible and anyone (including the annoying twelve year-old brats) could easily master the basic mechanics.

By your definition of what takes skill: Modern Warfare 2 > Call of Duty 4. Afterall, Modern Warfare 2 had faster kill-times, quick-scoping, and f***ing cheap button combinations. Therefore, it's more balanced than COD4. Am I right?

If I wanted to play a REAL competitive first-person shooter that has the number 2 in the title, I'd play this little game you may not heard of before called Team Fortress 2.

  • 02.17.2011 5:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

Posted by: TehTerminatorYeah.. I'm not even going to respond to you. Thanks for trying, though!

BTW, I've played nearly all of the PC games you listed above...

[Edited on 02.17.2011 5:34 PM PST]

  • 02.17.2011 5:32 PM PDT

Posted by: Mike Huntt
BTW, I've played nearly all of the PC games you listed above...
I sincerely doubt that. If you did, you wouldn't admit to your defeat.

NOTE: I don't HATE Halo 2. I LIKE Halo 2 A LOT. It's a great game, and it had the best maps in the series. But is it the defintive Halo game? God no! Halo: CE had a better campaign, and Halo 3 had better multi-player. Halo 2 was a lot better than Halo: Reach though.

  • 02.17.2011 5:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: jaythenerdkid
I definitely believe every wildly inflated claim ITT.

Weow kid, do you even lift?


Skype: au-simon

Posted by: TehTerminator
Posted by: Mike Huntt
BTW, I've played nearly all of the PC games you listed above...
I sincerely doubt that.
Clearly you know what games I have and haven't played.

Why don't you just stop posting now. kthxbai

  • 02.17.2011 5:45 PM PDT

Posted by: Mike Huntt
Clearly you know what games I have and haven't played.

Why don't you just stop posting now. kthxbai

I'll stop until we both agree that Halo 2 was at least better than Halo: Reach. You agree with that, don't you?

  • 02.17.2011 5:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Frasier Crane
I'm not making excuses. I never claimed to be good. I have never played any colonel better than me though.


Top 1% Overall Player for H3 on Halocharts
50 Team Slayer Gen and BTB 5 Star

Why did the OP get banned?

  • 02.17.2011 6:41 PM PDT
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Junior Dos Santos, know the name, he's the future.

BLACK POWER!


Posted by: WjB456
Why did the OP get banned?

I didn't realize mods came to this forum.

  • 02.17.2011 6:42 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

Kill times can't be too quick or too long.

  • 02.17.2011 6:42 PM PDT

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