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Subject: So... pull up a chair, let's talk about Rtas!

Sangheili Major: "Brute ships. Staggered line! Shipmaster, they outnumber us, three-to-one!"

Rtas 'Vadum: "Then it is an even fight. All Cruisers, fire at will! Burn their mongrel hides!"

I couldn't agree with you more. Rtas is definitely a favourite, and Thel following right after.
And the final cutscene of Halo 3 was great; I like how -unlike other Sangheili that I am aware of- he actually shows his fears, worries, etc, etc.
I am hoping to see him in Karen Travis' novel, and maybe in the next Halo game. It was unfortunate, and rather annoying, that he became such a minor character in Halo 3. He could have played a larger role.

  • 02.23.2011 2:16 PM PDT

I'm dual-weildin' mah SMG's!

Posted by: Naked Crook

Posted by: anton1792
You did not actually think he was literally implying 3 = 1, right?


Well...

3:1 implies 3 enemies to 1 ally. This could mean 300 vs 100, 3000 vs 1000...

in no way is this an even fight.

Rtas believes that these are even fights.

An even fight is 1 vs 1, 10 vs 10, 30 vs 30...

Therefore...Rtas cannot differentiate numbers, and believes, mathematically, 3 = 1.

If it went like:

"Shipmaster, they outnumber us 3:1"

and Rtas replied:

"Well, this fight will be a difficult one...but the rewards of victory will be great"

that would make more sense.


Rtas meant that the brutes are not as skilled with their weapons. A Single Elite has 3x the Skill of a single Brute. Thus, it would take 3 brute ships combined to take out a single Elite ship (Or for it to be an even matchup) Or more simply, three brutes against one Elite.

  • 02.23.2011 2:27 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: anton1792
You did not actually think he was literally implying 3 = 1, right?


Well...

3:1 implies 3 enemies to 1 ally. This could mean 300 vs 100, 3000 vs 1000...

in no way is this an even fight.

Rtas believes that these are even fights.

An even fight is 1 vs 1, 10 vs 10, 30 vs 30...

Therefore...Rtas cannot differentiate numbers, and believes, mathematically, 3 = 1.

If it went like:

"Shipmaster, they outnumber us 3:1"

and Rtas replied:

"Well, this fight will be a difficult one...but the rewards of victory will be great"

that would make more sense.


Because it's utterly stupid to suggest that Rtas meant he outmatches the Brutes because he has a greater strategy? Sangheili are more cunning and intelligent than Jiralhanae, Rtas will win on this basis.

How can you not grasp this simple concept without overcomplicating it?

[Edited on 02.23.2011 3:38 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2011 2:31 PM PDT

About me: I am a vicious wolf of a man.

But really am sweet at heart. =)

Rtas is one of my favorite characters when most Halo fans don't even know he exists.

He just adds a certain layer of depth, a dare I say it:humanity, to the Sangheili.

I don't quite know what is is either, he just seems awesome.

  • 02.23.2011 2:49 PM PDT

On a related note, ******'s mom has really nice boobs, and it doesn't take much booze or encouragement to get her to let the puppies out of the pen...if you know what I mean...

You are smart.

  • 02.23.2011 2:52 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Naked Crook
Therefore...Rtas cannot differentiate numbers, and believes, mathematically, 3 = 1.

No. He believes with respect to strategy, tactics and technology that 1 Elite ship is equal in combat effectiveness to 3 Brute ships.

  • 02.23.2011 2:53 PM PDT

I like to imagine him in a white version of This armor.

  • 02.23.2011 2:55 PM PDT

I'm dual-weildin' mah SMG's!

I wouldn't. It reminds me of a Brute Chieftain. It doesn't suit him.

What would suit him are Commando shoulders and chest armour to signify his rank.

  • 02.23.2011 2:58 PM PDT

No new games, catching up with the world, and filling it with the name of SpazDragon, the dragon with a spas-12.

Why doesn't someone write a fan-fic about him? To give him an even greater contrast that was lacked in Halo 3? Of course, people may have done this before, but has there ever been a story of nothing but him?

  • 02.23.2011 4:43 PM PDT

Posted by: anton1792
(For those looking for the tl;dr: There is not one. I just wasted 10 seconds of your lazy life. LOL)


:(

  • 02.23.2011 4:59 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Plasma3150
I like to imagine him in a white version of This armor.

I think that looks better than the actual majors that are in Reach to be honest. I have always liked the Halo 3 Elites the best though for some reason.

Posted by: SpazDragon1397
Why doesn't someone write a fan-fic about him? To give him an even greater contrast that was lacked in Halo 3? Of course, people may have done this before, but has there ever been a story of nothing but him?

To be honest, I would if I had more than a sliver of confidence in my writing. :P But yeah there are tons of fics out there with Rtas in them.

1) FanFic.net > Games > Halo
2) Search criteria > Rtas 'Vadumee
3) ????
4) Profit

Posted by: I sit on a chair
Posted by: anton1792
(For those looking for the tl;dr: There is not one. I just wasted 10 seconds of your lazy life. LOL)

:(

;)

  • 02.23.2011 5:42 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Plasma3150
I like to imagine him in a white version of This armor.

I think that looks better than the actual majors that are in Reach to be honest. I have always liked the Halo 3 Elites the best though for some reason.
It may look better, but it wouldn't fit the profile of the rank. Major is pretty low in the ranking structure, and that armor is too extravagant.

I hated Halo 3's Elites. They are hunched over, bulky, and a little stiff.

  • 02.23.2011 5:47 PM PDT

"Were it so easy"

one thing im having trouble with is what ive read on halopedia, being wounded in battle is a sign of honor due to brave acts, but being captured alive is most unhonorable, there way of thinking is both interesting and confusing, or so what ive seen from halopedia

  • 02.23.2011 5:52 PM PDT

"Were it so easy"

@tjw34307
hes saying that since he is a most notable figure and is well trained and honered in battle that he belives he and his other elites can take on 2x more than he can handle, in which he did

[Edited on 02.23.2011 5:54 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2011 5:53 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: KoldKillaX
one thing im having trouble with is what ive read on halopedia, being wounded in battle is a sign of honor due to brave acts, but being captured alive is most unhonorable, there way of thinking is both interesting and confusing, or so what ive seen from halopedia

Hmmm, Halopedia.

Never take Halopedia as 100% truth. They have still got glassing as leaving behind a glass marble for a planet despite significant evidence that it has been retconned to just bombing cities/military bases/agricultural regions. I have not read anything to suggest that there is honor for a Sangheili to be wounded in combat. When Jora was almost killed by Humans on board a Human vessel, Thel said that he would have to regain his honor again. There is also the other two instances I outlined in the OP. I do not remember reading anything which Halopedia could base that on. There might be, but I just cannot remember.

  • 02.23.2011 6:05 PM PDT
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UWG Great group, you should check it out.

BungieHUB

Great post OP. You get 3 cookies for giving me a great read. (::) (::) (::::) (Two times the chocolate)

  • 02.23.2011 6:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: KoldKillaX

Because it's utterly stupid to suggest that Rtas meant he outmatches the Brutes because he has a greater strategy? Sangheili are more cunning and intelligent than Jiralhanae, Rtas will win on this basis.

How can you not grasp this simple concept without overcomplicating it?



Is it wrong for me to ask what this strategy was?

Lets lay some facts down as opposed to stuff Rtas may or may not have done.

In a tactical engagement, when you are outnumbered, outgunned, and facing ships of identical design...what miracle strategy did Rtas come up with? They didn't even tell us. In fact...we have no clue what happened in that engagement. Nobody knows if there was even a strategy. I can tell you what did happen. A happy ending service where the good guys win. In reality, given any circumstance with the preconditions I listed...if you are outgunned, you are gonna lose. You give this Rtas guy WAY to much credit.

The Elites didn't have superior positioning, they didn't have the advantage, they didn't have the high ground. They only thing they had, was a Commander who severely underestimated his opponent.

that is formula # 1 for losing an engagement. Remember in Halo Wars what happened to the Arbiter when he underestimated Forge? Quod Erat Demonstrandum...he got a knife in the neck. We saw that engagement, so it is fair to pass judgment on it. We saw the tactics, we saw the plan, and we saw the battle. Had the Arbiter just pulled his sword out and cut forge down...guess what...Arbiter would have won. But he underestimated his opponent and he died for it. The same thing should have happened to Rtas...but like I said...baseless happy ending service.

Lets talk about "tactics" and "Strategy" for a sec...

How do you know Rtas even came up with anything? Perhaps he just sat there the entire battle and yelled out orders. Perhaps they were losing the battle. But luckily...This guy came up with a plan to save the day. Perhaps it was the commander of this ship or this Elite

you can say Rtas did this and that...but you cant prove it...so as far as I am concerned...he is just a dude with half a face who violates his own species' code of conduct.

I see nothing special about him.

  • 02.23.2011 6:31 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Naked Crook
Is it wrong for me to ask what this strategy was?

Lets lay some facts down as opposed to stuff Rtas may or may not have done.

In a tactical engagement, when you are outnumbered, outgunned, and facing ships of identical design...what miracle strategy did Rtas come up with? They didn't even tell us. In fact...we have no clue what happened in that engagement. Nobody knows if there was even a strategy. I can tell you what did happen. A happy ending service where the good guys win. In reality, given any circumstance with the preconditions I listed...if you are outgunned, you are gonna lose. You give this Rtas guy WAY to much credit.

The Elites didn't have superior positioning, they didn't have the advantage, they didn't have the high ground. They only thing they had, was a Commander who severely underestimated his opponent.

Sangheili ships use a technology that disperses plasma torpedoes. The Brutes cannot use it properly; the Sangheili can. It is one of the major reason how the Sangheili survived their space engagements. Fleetmaster Voro in Ghosts of Onyx used it to his advantage and won, outnumbered, when he should have lost under normal conditions. Also, very few Brutes have any naval command experience whatsoever. It would be like swapping everyone in the Navy for the Army. Good at territorial engagements, but totally out of their element in naval combat. They were pitted against a foe who know what they are doing and who have been commanding naval engagements for over 3000 years.

Posted by: Naked Crook
Lets talk about "tactics" and "Strategy" for a sec...

How do you know Rtas even came up with anything? Perhaps he just sat there the entire battle and yelled out orders. Perhaps they were losing the battle. But luckily...This guy came up with a plan to save the day. Perhaps it was the commander of this ship or this Elite

you can say Rtas did this and that...but you cant prove it...so as far as I am concerned...he is just a dude with half a face who violates his own species' code of conduct.

I see nothing special about him.

The Ark Radio logs.

Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): Hit them again! And again! And again!"
Unknown Longsword Pilot (COM): "Got a lock! Fox, Fox!"
Commander Keyes (COM): "Negative, protect the Pelicans!"
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "Now, close for the finish!"
Unknown Longsword Pilot (COM): "Negative, get out of there!"
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "Let your cannons roar."
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "Broadside! What fools to face our guns!"
Commander Keyes (COM): "Fire pods one through twelve. Archers away.
Commander Keyes (COM): "Two contacts at point two-three-eight!"
Unknown Longsword Pilot (COM): "Affirmative. I see it...."
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "No, I will handle those myself."
Unknown Longsword Pilot (COM): "Seraphs, on my six!"
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "Stay away from those cruisers!"
Commander Keyes (COM): "Understood. Engage those Seraphs!"
Unknown Longsword Pilot (COM): "Scratch one, coming about."
Commander Keyes (COM): "Let the Elites take care of those cruisers."
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "Full shields! Ramming speed!"
Unknown Longsword Pilot (COM): "Point laser fire, break off!"
Unknown Longsword Pilot (COM): "I'm hit, I'm hit!"
Commander Keyes (COM): "Watch your fire, watch your fire!"
Unknown Longsword Pilot (COM): "No sign of the Elites, moving to the carrier. Goodbye, guys."
Unknown Longsword Pilot (COM): "All squadrons, form up! Form up!"
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "I give an honor for that kill."
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "Suppress with me, point laser batteries."
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "Forward lasers, draw their fire."
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "...burn."
Commander Keyes (COM): "Affirmative, that's a hit."
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "They have been gutted stem to stern."
Shipmaster Rtas 'Vadum (COM): "Look at it blister and burn."
Commander Keyes (COM): "Charge the MAC. Give me a firing solution."

Probably safe to say that he was involved in this conflict rather than just sit there and let others do it.

Uninformed opinions are dangerous.

Posted by: Naked Crook
Like I said, I don't read those books or watch those cartoons...but other people do.

I assume that is the Halo books you refer to. After all, what other books would be relevant in a Halo debate? If you read the books then there is greater chance that this would have a greater degree of context to it. You may also have recognized the technology on the Sangheili ships that gives them an advantage over the Brutes.

  • 02.23.2011 7:03 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Posted by: Naked Crook
In reality, given any circumstance with the preconditions I listed...if you are outgunned, you are gonna lose. You give this Rtas guy WAY to much credit.

It's called talent and skill. That is how you win when you are outgunned. The brutes, as their name implies, are big dumb ogres. They have no tactic other than bull rush. Rtas used that against them to win.

Posted by: Naked Crook
The Elites didn't have superior positioning, they didn't have the advantage, they didn't have the high ground. They only thing they had, was a Commander who severely underestimated his opponent.

Or they have a badass who correctly analyzed his opponent, gave an inspiring speech, and beat the odds.

Posted by: Naked Crook
Remember in Halo Wars what happened to the Arbiter when he underestimated Forge?

Just about everyone on this forum, and any avid halo fan who has played the other halos, read the books, or some combination of the two knows that game completely trashed the elites. The average elite weighs around 320 pounds. Ripa is huge, roughly 370. There is no way Forge could have tackled him, let alone survived all the energy sword stabs. Halo Wars Elites aren't really a valid example, considering how downplayed the elite skill is in that game compared to every other example.

Posted by: Naked Crook
Perhaps he just sat there the entire battle and yelled out orders. Perhaps they were losing the battle.

That is called "Commanding". Something that the Brutes don't have. He organized his small number of ships, and used them in a way to defeat the disorganized brutes.

Posted by: Naked Crook
But luckily...This guy came up with a plan to save the day. Perhaps it was the commander of this ship or this Elite


There is no way a Sangheili below Rtas would have taken charge. They are an honorable species and respect their superiors. Rtas, being the "Commanding" Officer of the engagment, took charge and slaughtered the Jiralhanae.

Posted by: Naked Crook
you can say Rtas did this and that...but you cant prove it...so as far as I am concerned...he is just a dude with half a face who violates his own species' code of conduct.

I see nothing special about him.

You can prove he's done plenty of things. That engagement is just one of them. And yes, you can prove he did it, because, obviously, he came out alive, with the brutes beaten. As for your violation of his code of conduct, Not familiar with what your are talking about, but I'm sure it is, like the rest of your words, horse feces.


EDIT: Oh, forgot to add, great work anton, couldn't agree more. Rtas is among my favorite characters within the Haloverse. A treasured comrade.

[Edited on 02.23.2011 7:24 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2011 7:16 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Yeah, he's pretty cool, but he's still a damned split lip. Sorry but I won't have any of that.

Not on my ship.

  • 02.23.2011 7:27 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Yeah, he's pretty cool, but he's still a damned split lip. Sorry but I won't have any of that.

Not on my ship.
Says the one who didn't survive the war ;)

I'm teasing. But still...

  • 02.23.2011 7:32 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: matman25402
Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Yeah, he's pretty cool, but he's still a damned split lip. Sorry but I won't have any of that.

Not on my ship.
Says the one who didn't survive the war ;)

I'm teasing. But still...
Hey! I went down like a badass... besides unlike my daughter, I probably would've been one of the UNSC commanders who didn't trust the Sangheili after the Schism.

  • 02.23.2011 7:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: anton1792
Sangheili ships use a technology that disperses plasma torpedoes. The Brutes cannot use it properly; the Sangheili can.


Please cite this in context of some canon material. Ideally which book it came from and the passage, otherwise, this can be disputed.

Posted by: anton1792
AUDIO LOGS


All this tells me is that he was telling fighters to move around...and something about roaring cannons...cannons do not roar Rtas...sorry...you ain't winning any points for intelligence. He also is like "Hit them again and agaian and again..." Pro tactics my friend...pro indeed.

Posted by: matman25402
It's called talent and skill. That is how you win when you are outgunned. The brutes, as their name implies, are big dumb ogres. They have no tactic other than bull rush. Rtas used that against them to win.


So they only know Bullrush tactics? And you can say this with 100% certainty? I have to question that...

Posted by: matman25402
Or they have a badass who correctly analyzed his opponent, gave an inspiring speech, and beat the odds.


This only says he is good at running his mouth. He has a big mouth. Talking doesn't win battles my friend. And as far as analyzing his opponent...I am sure he doesn't know who ANY of the enemy commanders are...because...lets face it...Elites have no interest in learning about Brutes. So...chances are...he is making assumptions...something people in thread are good at.

Posted by: matman25402
Just about everyone on this forum, and any avid halo fan who has played the other halos, read the books, or some combination of the two knows that game completely trashed the elites. The average elite weighs around 320 pounds. Ripa is huge, roughly 370. There is no way Forge could have tackled him, let alone survived all the energy sword stabs. Halo Wars Elites aren't really a valid example, considering how downplayed the elite skill is in that game compared to every other example.


It's not that hard to knock over a 320 pound individual when they are unprepared, and when body weight is unevenly distributed on their back and they have weird twisted knees. It's also called the center of gravity. Try it sometimes...you just might be surprised.

Posted by: matman25402
That is called "Commanding". Something that the Brutes don't have. He organized his small number of ships, and used them in a way to defeat the disorganized brutes.


His very title has the word commander in it., I have disproved your comment by citing at least one instance.


Posted by: matman25402
There is no way a Sangheili below Rtas would have taken charge. They are an honorable species and respect their superiors. Rtas, being the "Commanding" Officer of the engagment, took charge and slaughtered the Jiralhanae.


So if Rtas was killed by say...and exploding console...I assume the second in command would assume charge. That's why the navy has a rank structure. Also...I am sure people are free to offer suggestions. If this is not true in the Elite navy...they obviously the Elites cannot be that good.

See...you guys rely on unproven events, unproven happenings, and conjecture to support Rtas. Sorry...I am not buying this.

If this was the court of law...and you put forward conjecture as evidence...you would be disbarred as lawyers. For the sake of the justice system, I hope you people steer clear of the legal system if you are aiming for jobs.

[Edited on 02.23.2011 7:47 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2011 7:45 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Posted by: Naked Crook
So they only know Bullrush tactics? And you can say this with 100% certainty? I have to question that...

Find me something else that proves differently.

Posted by: Naked Crook
This only says he is good at running his mouth. He has a big mouth. Talking doesn't win battles my friend. And as far as analyzing his opponent...I am sure he doesn't know who ANY of the enemy commanders are...because...lets face it...Elites have no interest in learning about Brutes. So...chances are...he is making assumptions...something people in thread are good at.

Talking most certainly wins battles. Communication is key. You must know very little about strategy.

Posted by: Naked Crook
It's not that hard to knock over a 320 pound individual when they are unprepared, and when body weight is unevenly distributed on their back and they have weird twisted knees. It's also called the center of gravity. Try it sometimes...you just might be surprised.


One, he definitely wasn't unprepared, he was in the middle of a fight, his weight is obviously going to be distributed correctly, considering he is in a fighting stance. Two, I'd love to see you try to tackle a 370 pound individual.

Posted by: Naked Crook
His very title has the word commander in it., I have disproved your comment by citing at least one instance.

That is from multiplayer my friend. Multiplayer is not canon. lrn2canon.

Posted by: Naked Crook
So if Rtas was killed by say...and exploding console...I assume the second in command would assume charge. That's why the navy has a rank structure. Also...I am sure people are free to offer suggestions. If this is not true in the Elite navy...they obviously the Elites cannot be that good.

One, he wasn't killed, obviously he survived. Two, they have a very clear Ranking Tier. Anyone who has played halo or read any of the books knows this. You seem to act like you have done neither.

Posted by: Naked Crook
See...you guys rely on unproven events, unproven happenings, and conjecture to support Rtas. Sorry...I am not buying this.

Please explain your unproven events (which is the same thing as happenings, you just like to make long sentences to make yourself appear smart it seems.) because nothing talked about in my posts were conjecture.

Posted by: Naked Crook
If this was the court of law...and you put forward conjecture as evidence...you would be disbarred as lawyers. For the sake of the justice system, I hope you people steer clear of the legal system if you are aiming for jobs.

It isn't a court of law, this a forum on a website for a video game. And as said earlier, none of this is conjecture, you just seem to keep using that word, like you don't know what it means.

  • 02.23.2011 7:58 PM PDT

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