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Subject: So... pull up a chair, let's talk about Rtas!

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: anton1792
Sangheili ships use a technology that disperses plasma torpedoes. The Brutes cannot use it properly; the Sangheili can.

Please cite this in context of some canon material. Ideally which book it came from and the passage, otherwise, this can be disputed.

Ghosts of Onyx, page 193 (Bottom)/194 (Top)

  • 02.23.2011 8:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: matman25402
Find me something else that proves differently.


During the events of Delta Halo in Halo 2. Many Councilors were lured (tricked) to Delta Halo, by the Brutes to witness the activation of Halo. This resulted in the death of many Councilors in a planned ambush.

That's the oldest trick in the book...and your desired proof.

Posted by: matman25402
Talking most certainly wins battles. Communication is key. You must know very little about strategy.


Remember...you said:

Posted by: matman25402
Or they have a badass who correctly analyzed his opponent, gave an inspiring speech, and beat the odds.


You said inspiring speech. You said he gave a nice speech before the battle...you said nothing about giving orders during the battle. Make sure you know what you said before you critique what I say.

Posted by: matman25402
One, he definitely wasn't unprepared, he was in the middle of a fight, his weight is obviously going to be distributed correctly, considering he is in a fighting stance. Two, I'd love to see you try to tackle a 370 pound individual.


Go and sign up for your schools Football team and make sure you play defense. The first thing they will teach you is to lower your center of mass below your targets center of mass. This will allow you to tackle, and bring down, someone up to 200 lbs heavier than you.

Posted by: matman25402
That is from multiplayer my friend. Multiplayer is not canon. lrn2canon.


it's a short read but although the army command was never seen, it is accepted by canon that he did, in fact, fight along side the Arbiter in the Harvest Campaign.

Posted by: matman25402
One, he wasn't killed, obviously he survived. Two, they have a very clear Ranking Tier. Anyone who has played halo or read any of the books knows this. You seem to act like you have done neither.


Brutes have that too. Big whoop.

But to say a Navy commander will not allow someone to make a suggestion in a naval engagement...is stupid. If someone makes a smart suggestion, chances are, any good commander will listen to his crew...that is why they are there. That's the mark of a good leader...unless you concede Rtas is not a good leader...than fine...I can live with that. Whatever floats your boat.

Posted by: matman25402
Please explain your unproven events (which is the same thing as happenings, you just like to make long sentences to make yourself appear smart it seems.) because nothing talked about in my posts were conjecture.


I asked for specifics on what Rtas strategy during the battle of the Ark. You said something along the lines of "A good strategy..."

How do you know it was good? What if he has several strategies and they all failed? He only had one ship left so far as we knew. If he had other ships, than another ship would have moved in after the flood asteroid punched a hole in his ship in the next level. He obviously didn't have that golden ticket for winning. I want specifics on his strategy...and you cannot give any...so...you rely on conjecture and possibilities on what that strategy is. This is called unproven events.

Posted by: matman25402
It isn't a court of law, this a forum on a website for a video game. And as said earlier, none of this is conjecture, you just seem to keep using that word, like you don't know what it means.


Conjecture is a fancy word for speculation. I know what it means. Read the last bit and you will see why I use this word.

Alas...the principle is the same...we are having a debate whther this squid is a decent leader...I offer facts and hypothesis with support and supporting argument...you offer...

What's that word again?

it starts with a C...

CONJECTURE.

Posted by: anton1792
Ghosts of Onyx, page 193 (Bottom)/194 (Top)


At least Anton knows where it is at.

I will concede that for you. Good job bud. You got me there.

[Edited on 02.23.2011 8:55 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2011 8:54 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: anton1792
AUDIO LOGS

All this tells me is that he was telling fighters to move around...

AKA, commanding.

Posted by: Naked Crook
and something about roaring cannons...cannons do not roar Rtas...sorry...you ain't winning any points for intelligence.

Trivial point. There is no difference between saying "Fire the canon" and "Let the canon roar". The implications are the same for each. Elites are more flamboyant in their speech.

Posted by: Naked Crook
He also is like "Hit them again and agaian and again..." Pro tactics my friend...pro indeed.

Refer to above point.

Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: matman25402
Find me something else that proves differently.

During the events of Delta Halo in Halo 2. Many Councilors were lured (tricked) to Delta Halo, by the Brutes to witness the activation of Halo. This resulted in the death of many Councilors in a planned ambush.

That's the oldest trick in the book...and your desired proof.

With pertinence to open naval combat it is not. It is hardly proof that they can come up with quick, effective strategies whilst in the heat of battle, only that given sufficient time they can plan a deception.

Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: matman25402
One, he wasn't killed, obviously he survived. Two, they have a very clear Ranking Tier. Anyone who has played halo or read any of the books knows this. You seem to act like you have done neither.


Brutes have that too. Big whoop.

But to say a Navy commander will not allow someone to make a suggestion in a naval engagement...is stupid. If someone makes a smart suggestion, chances are, any good commander will listen to his crew...that is why they are there. That's the mark of a good leader...unless you concede Rtas is not a good leader...than fine...I can live with that. Whatever floats your boat.

Do you know what Occam's Razor is?

Let us put down some pure facts here. Rtas leads a fleet of 10 Elite ships against 30 Brute ships.

Rtas was heavily involved in commanding the Fleet. You can see all the orders he was giving in the Ark radio logs.

Rtas emerges as victorious with at least his Assault Carrier surviving intact. The Brute fleet is completely destroyed.

Rtas goes into battle as the commander, gives orders to his assets, and wins. Knowing nothing else, Occam's Razor would dictate that it was due to Rtas' commanding that won the battle for the Elites.

Introducing unfounded complicating factors like another Shipmaster assuming control/offering the timely suggestion/invisible flying spaghetti monster eating the Brutes makes the hypothesis unnecessarily complicated without reason.

[Edited on 02.24.2011 1:31 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2011 8:59 PM PDT

Spartans never die... they just revert to last checkpoint.

The Arbiter sucks in his full body tights and dumb armor (not the Halo Wars Arbiter, he's badasssssss)

Rtas is tied with the Halo Wars Arbiter (Who needs a name BADLY) for my favorite.

  • 02.23.2011 9:17 PM PDT

Spartans never die... they just revert to last checkpoint.


Posted by: Apocalypse 1313
The Arbiter sucks in his full body tights and dumb armor (not the Halo Wars Arbiter, he's badasssssss)

Rtas is tied with the Halo Wars Arbiter (Who needs a name BADLY) for my favorite.


The Halo Wars Arbiter is an extremely effective commander. Grunts are very common and easily replaced. Strap them with bombs. Even if your alien soldiers die, the results are what matter.

  • 02.23.2011 9:27 PM PDT

I'm dual-weildin' mah SMG's!

Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: anton1792
AUDIO LOGS


All this tells me is that he was telling fighters to move around...and something about roaring cannons...cannons do not roar Rtas...sorry...you ain't winning any points for intelligence. He also is like "Hit them again and agaian and again..." Pro tactics my friend...pro indeed.


Elites are much more flamboyant and poetic with their speech.
"I will beat the prophet's shield like a drum"
Before you pull anything out on that, its a metaphor, its descriptive and comparative speech. Under the circumstances, I wouldn't say that, but I'm sure a religious flamboyant person would.
And i'm sure you know how to win a naval battle without firing any sort of weapon? Its not exactly a tactic but id say that if you can see an enemy, and its in firing range, and said enemy is attacking you, its pretty natural to shoot it until it dies.

Posted by: Naked crook
Posted by: matman25402
Or they have a badass who correctly analyzed his opponent, gave an inspiring speech, and beat the odds.


This only says he is good at running his mouth. He has a big mouth. Talking doesn't win battles my friend. And as far as analyzing his opponent...I am sure he doesn't know who ANY of the enemy commanders are...because...lets face it...Elites have no interest in learning about Brutes. So...chances are...he is making assumptions...something people in thread are good at.

I find that funny, as you just made an assumption. I have reason to beleive that the Elites actually taught the humans about the Brutes. N'tho 'Sraom (The blue elite campaign character who acts as player 3) was known (in some kind of Bungie.net thing, I don't know exactly where it is but I know it exists) for giving the UNSC information about the Brutes and their technology, the Chopper in particular. Do you have any source that the Elites couldn't be bothered?

Posted by: Naked crook
Posted by: matman25402
Just about everyone on this forum, and any avid halo fan who has played the other halos, read the books, or some combination of the two knows that game completely trashed the elites. The average elite weighs around 320 pounds. Ripa is huge, roughly 370. There is no way Forge could have tackled him, let alone survived all the energy sword stabs. Halo Wars Elites aren't really a valid example, considering how downplayed the elite skill is in that game compared to every other example.


It's not that hard to knock over a 320 pound individual when they are unprepared, and when body weight is unevenly distributed on their back and they have weird twisted knees. It's also called the center of gravity. Try it sometimes...you just might be surprised.

370 actually. I know what you mean, but remember, this guy is tall, muscular and wears a suit of Armor. Those may not be much against gravity but he's also carrying a sword. Why not just run Forge through with the blade? My diagnosis;
Ripa Moramee was a terrible fighter once you take away his physique.

Posted by: Naked crook
Posted by: matman25402
That is called "Commanding". Something that the Brutes don't have. He organized his small number of ships, and used them in a way to defeat the disorganized brutes.


His very title has the word commander in it., I have disproved your comment by citing at least one instance.

Thats an army Commander, not a naval one. Anyway, his existence hasn't even proved cannon. He's not in the story, plus I don't think Brutes had Choppers, Brute Shots and Jump Packs at that time. They were limited to Spikers and Gravity Hammers.
My proof being that they haven't been observed in the field up until around the events of the Great Schism, when the Prophets gave the Brutes full military command.


BEEEEEEEYAAAAAAATCH :D

[Edited on 02.24.2011 4:29 AM PST]

  • 02.24.2011 4:28 AM PDT

Dark Neptune, a young amateur astronomer whose gaming life is no different from other teenagers of his age, though he controls it more strictly then others.

Rtas can be described as one word:

Underrated.

Your thread made me realise how cool a character he actually is, and I think Bungie did a good job at making him, but did a bad job at making his character more well-known.

  • 02.24.2011 5:34 AM PDT

I'm dual-weildin' mah SMG's!

I would have had his character be playable, Like Sgt. Johnson in Firefight. During something like a Firefight Versus, you could have covenant Firefight Voices (Arbiter, Shipmaster, Tartarus, The Grunt from that Easter egg, Prophet of Truth etc...)

  • 02.24.2011 11:18 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: NinjaChicken197
N'tho 'Sraom (The blue elite campaign character who acts as player 3) was known (in some kind of Bungie.net thing, I don't know exactly where it is but I know it exists)

Here it is.

  • 02.24.2011 11:41 AM PDT

Yeah, I pretty much view him in the same way as you. I did my best to portray him that way in Halo 3: Insurrection anyway. My favourite Sangheili character after the Arbiter.

  • 02.24.2011 12:21 PM PDT

Halo: Heretic or Hero---An Elite's Story
Choose your own destiny

FanFicFactor
Forged in the Flames of Passion, go forth and represent!

I've never understood how to properly pronounce his name...

But yes, he is indeed an awesome character. Nice thread.

  • 02.24.2011 12:37 PM PDT

@Naked Crook

You're very annoying. Anyway, I hope this makes you very angry, it's fun to see trolls angry. Matman25402 Leads a Fleet in the best Elite Clan out there. I am in his fleet. We've done the research on Elites, we have the facts, we also know quite a bit about fighting and physics. So shut your -blam!- Mouth and accept that you're wrong.

[Edited on 02.24.2011 1:12 PM PST]

  • 02.24.2011 1:11 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Sergeant Murph
I've never understood how to properly pronounce his name...

I always used to say "Ritass" but apparently it is something like Oortaz or something.

His name is mentioned here in a Waypoint video at around 3:40ish.

  • 02.24.2011 1:18 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Posted by: Naked Crook
During the events of Delta Halo in Halo 2. Many Councilors were lured (tricked) to Delta Halo, by the Brutes to witness the activation of Halo. This resulted in the death of many Councilors in a planned ambush.

That's the oldest trick in the book...and your desired proof.

And who told them to do that? The Prophets. All they did was say,"Uhh okay boss." and do as they were told. Not very cunning at all.

Posted by: Naked Crook
Remember...you said:

Posted by: matman25402
Or they have a badass who correctly analyzed his opponent, gave an inspiring speech, and beat the odds.


You said inspiring speech. You said he gave a nice speech before the battle...you said nothing about giving orders during the battle. Make sure you know what you said before you critique what I say.

Like the Audio Logs from the battle haven't been shown to you in this thread at least 3 times. Doesn't seem like you pick up on things to quickly. Reminds me of a certain fictional species...

Posted by: Naked Crook
Go and sign up for your schools Football team and make sure you play defense. The first thing they will teach you is to lower your center of mass below your targets center of mass. This will allow you to tackle, and bring down, someone up to 200 lbs heavier than you.

I played football. But that has nothing to do with this. Clearly just by sizing them up alone should be enough for one to judge that Forge shouldn't be able to tackle Ripa, but I'm going to get technical on you, hopefully you can handle it. Ripa Moramee is a sangheili, and a large one at that. He weighs roughly 370lbs, plus 70 pounds of armor (That is a low estimate, mind you) which brings his weight to a low ballpark of 440 lbs of muscle and metal. Forge, is 6'3, roughly 180 pounds, and is lugging about 50 lbs of armor. There is no way in any stretch of the imagination that he could have tackled the giant known as Ripa.

Posted by: Naked Crook
it's a short read but although the army command was never seen, it is accepted by canon that he did, in fact, fight along side the Arbiter in the Harvest Campaign.

Once again, he is a multiplayer character. Until he is ever seen in campaign or mentioned in one of the halo novels, comic books, or any other form of canonized halo media, he is not canon. Once again, lrn2canon

Posted by: Naked Crook
Brutes have that too. Big whoop.

But to say a Navy commander will not allow someone to make a suggestion in a naval engagement...is stupid. If someone makes a smart suggestion, chances are, any good commander will listen to his crew...that is why they are there. That's the mark of a good leader...unless you concede Rtas is not a good leader...than fine...I can live with that. Whatever floats your boat.

Once again, you are oblivious to all prior posts. The Audio Logs clearly show Rtas giving orders, and silently and without question, his orders become a reality. No where in the logs do you hear another sangheili attempt to give Rtas suggestions or other commands.


Posted by: Naked Crook
I asked for specifics on what Rtas strategy during the battle of the Ark. You said something along the lines of "A good strategy..."

How do you know it was good? What if he has several strategies and they all failed? He only had one ship left so far as we knew. If he had other ships, than another ship would have moved in after the flood asteroid punched a hole in his ship in the next level. He obviously didn't have that golden ticket for winning. I want specifics on his strategy...and you cannot give any...so...you rely on conjecture and possibilities on what that strategy is. This is called unproven events.

For the third time in this post, you will be referred to the Audio Logs. Do you see anything about Rtas losing? Anything about his ships being destroyed? No. You hear him giving orders and winning, like the champion Rtas is.

Posted by: Naked Crook
Conjecture is a fancy word for speculation. I know what it means. Read the last bit and you will see why I use this word.

Alas...the principle is the same...we are having a debate whther this squid is a decent leader...I offer facts and hypothesis with support and supporting argument...you offer...

What's that word again?

it starts with a C...

CONJECTURE.

I'm glad you know what it means. Now go back to your posts. Do you ever give a source or other canonical piece of information that can be used to back your claims legitimately? No, you just say that there is no proof that Rtas did this or that, even though myself and others have been hitting you in the face with canonical proof of what Rtas accomplished.

[Edited on 02.24.2011 1:32 PM PST]

  • 02.24.2011 1:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.


Posted by: Naked Crook
"Well, this fight will be a difficult one...but the rewards of victory will be great"

that would make more sense.


No, it wouldn't. R'tas knew that the Sangheili had superior battle tactics, therefore he said that. Plus he is a total badass.

  • 02.24.2011 1:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Alsa Voromee
@Naked Crook

You're very annoying. Anyway, I hope this makes you very angry, it's fun to see trolls angry. Matman25402 Leads a Fleet in the best Elite Clan out there. I am in his fleet. We've done the research on Elites, we have the facts, we also know quite a bit about fighting and physics. So shut your -blam!- Mouth and accept that you're wrong.


LMAO!!!

This is either a joke...or you really need to get out more.

I almost died from laughter at this.

And people say I troll...

  • 02.24.2011 1:36 PM PDT


Posted by: Naked Crook

Posted by: anton1792
You did not actually think he was literally implying 3 = 1, right?


Well...

3:1 implies 3 enemies to 1 ally. This could mean 300 vs 100, 3000 vs 1000...

in no way is this an even fight.

Rtas believes that these are even fights.

An even fight is 1 vs 1, 10 vs 10, 30 vs 30...

Therefore...Rtas cannot differentiate numbers, and believes, mathematically, 3 = 1.

If it went like:

"Shipmaster, they outnumber us 3:1"

and Rtas replied:

"Well, this fight will be a difficult one...but the rewards of victory will be great"

that would make more sense.

he believes its an even fight because brutes are not as smart as elites and dont have as good weapons

  • 02.24.2011 1:38 PM PDT

I like to play Devil's Advocate

@Naked Crook

You're very annoying. Anyway, I hope this makes you very angry, it's fun to see trolls angry. Matman25402 Leads a Fleet in the best Elite Clan out there. I am in his fleet. We've done the research on Elites, we have the facts, we also know quite a bit about fighting and physics. So shut your -blam!- Mouth and accept that you're wrong.



From what I have read.....Naked Crook isn't trolling, but more approaching this as a.....you know, an actual debate

I respect members like Naked Crook, Anton1792, and Ninjachicken197,......They aren't blatantly offending each other's intelligence...like what most trolls do.

They are all raising very good points,

Now..... this on the other hand....

You're very annoying

and

So shut your -blam!- Mouth and accept that you're wrong.

and

I am in his fleet. We've done the research on Elites, we have the facts, we also know quite a bit about fighting and physics

is trolling

  • 02.24.2011 1:48 PM PDT

How? I'm just pissed at this guy. That's not trolling.

  • 02.24.2011 1:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: Alsa Voromee
How? I'm just pissed at this guy. That's not trolling.


Obviously you must be very insecure about what you claim to know about Elites if I can get such a rise.

  • 02.24.2011 1:53 PM PDT

I like to play Devil's Advocate

So your pissed at a guy....because his opinion differentiates from yours?

  • 02.24.2011 1:53 PM PDT

I'm dual-weildin' mah SMG's!

Posted by: Cubanpete24
@Naked Crook

You're very annoying. Anyway, I hope this makes you very angry, it's fun to see trolls angry. Matman25402 Leads a Fleet in the best Elite Clan out there. I am in his fleet. We've done the research on Elites, we have the facts, we also know quite a bit about fighting and physics. So shut your -blam!- Mouth and accept that you're wrong.



From what I have read.....Naked Crook isn't trolling, but more approaching this as a.....you know, an actual debate

I respect members like Naked Crook, Anton1792, and Ninjachicken197,......They aren't blatantly offending each other's intelligence...like what most trolls do.

They are all raising very good points,

Now..... this on the other hand....

You're very annoying

and

So shut your -blam!- Mouth and accept that you're wrong.

and

I am in his fleet. We've done the research on Elites, we have the facts, we also know quite a bit about fighting and physics

is trolling


Thank you. I know I'm awesome :D

BTW, I always thought it was pronounced 'Ar-tas', I still stick by that anyway. It sounds cooler. Oortaz sounds russian...

  • 02.24.2011 1:55 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Don't derail mah thread pl0x!

D:

  • 02.24.2011 1:56 PM PDT

I like to play Devil's Advocate

I'm sorry......It's just that.....That one guy's post was just too silly to ignore

anyway, Rtas is pretty cool I guess....

He's got....Half a Jaw....

It'd be funny and cool if someone called him Half Jaw....

  • 02.24.2011 1:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: anton1792
Don't derail mah thread pl0x!

D:


Ok, I am sorry Anton.

You know, I did come here and kinda cast a shadow on your thread. We disagree, but your right, I should not derail it like I did.

I'm sorry.

  • 02.24.2011 1:58 PM PDT

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