Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo: Reach Brutes....What happened?
  • Subject: Halo: Reach Brutes....What happened?
Subject: Halo: Reach Brutes....What happened?

Got Milk?

I think it was Bungie's intention to dumb down the brutes (can you dumb down Brutes? haha) so as to make the re-introduced Elites stand out in comparison. Unfortunately I think they went a bit too far.

Like when Stewie let -blam!- Stewie make a clone for Brian in family guy....with disasterous results!

  • 02.22.2011 3:32 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

But...I am pretty sure, if we did role reversal, and played as a Brute against Elites/Spartans...you could make similar arguments why Spartans/Elites were boring to fight. Bungie was never good with AI it seems.

---

But look, I think we are all forgetting something...

The topic is the APPEARANCE of the Brutes, not how they play, or how they act.

I think we have all lost sight of this, and we just need to step back, and rethink what we are ALL saying, including myself.

from an APPEARANCE aspect, I highly disapprove of Brutes Reach. Lets try and focus on the concept of APPEARANCE first and foremost.

  • 02.22.2011 3:34 PM PDT


Posted by: mojeda101
The Brutes on Reach were from a different clan, not under Tartarus, who of course allowed Brutes to grow out their hair. These were under the Prophets, which if you notice in Halo 3, also had no hair, because the Prophets ordered all Brutes to be shaved and given Power Armor since Tartarus was no longer around.

I also hate that they removed Berserk from the Brute. I missed seeing them fly to you and can kill you in one hit but you can kill them with a few shots. I wanted them to have hair, I truely did, I wanted to face Bigfoot's, Bungie decided otherwise.

But at least there is a reason why, you're welcome.

Love, A Brute Fan as well =]


You+Knowlege=OWN

  • 02.22.2011 3:42 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Dj Liamo
I think it was Bungie's intention to dumb down the brutes (can you dumb down Brutes? haha)


Just for the record, it is entirely possible the Brutes achieved space faring status before (or at the very least, the same time) humanity did. Humanity only reached this level by the late 1950's and Humanity was fighting a sub-civil war with the insurrection for the ENTIRE Human-Covenant war. At least Brutes knew how to ummm...put their differences aside for a common goal.

So...if they are as dumb as you claim them to be...well...by proxy...the same could be said for humanity, as there are more parallels between the Brutes and Humans than there is Elites and Humans. In fact...come to think of it...I think...given the nature of the Elites, their size of their ego, their beliefs, and their position in the Covenant...I think it would have made more sense had they remained the enemies of the Halo franchise indefinitely.


This raises an interesting train of through...give me a moment here...

If you really think about it...the Elites were believable as enemies, they were established as characters and had an established history, culture, and for the entire history of the Covenant, they would summarily execute, without exception, above the rule of law, anything that lived, if it denied the Great Journey. How would the Brutes, as everyone describes them as being dumb, know more about the concepts of dedication, devotion, responsibility, duty, and loyalty, than the Elites. It would have made more sense if after so much oppression, the schism was a result of oppression rather than a temper tantrum.

Because if you think about it EVEN MORE...the schism is a comfortable euphemism for the fact the Elites threw an empire-wide temper tantrum when they simply should have accepted their punishment. They were just removed as being honor guards. No big loss. They still sat on the council, and they still led the military. This reminds me of a child who can only have two toys, and not three, while someone else gets nothing. Seems like a Brute response to me...throwing a fit of rage? Yep...sounds Brute to me.

Remember when I said Bungie gets their material mixed up?

The Brutes were always rushed and never thought out. I don't blame the concept of the Brutes for this, much like you don't blame Hayden Christensen for George Lucus sucking at writing a script. Here is a scenario for you to eat and digest: had the Elites gone unpunished after Regrets death, this could have shown a disgusting double standard in the way the Covenant was run, and it should have resulted in the Brutes leaving, joining the humans. Two races, with many parallels, both being oppressed, both considered as lesser beings than the Elites...queue the schism.

I guess Elites and Brutes are whatever the plot needs them to be.

  • 02.22.2011 4:25 PM PDT

GT: j0sh291
"Gentlemen. I be placed at a bewilderment. There I were, resting, when I hear a frightful row on deck. What be that first mate?"
-"Mutiny. And what fate befalls mutineers? I think we know the answer to that, don't we? Mutineers...HANG!!!"

Twitter:@j0sh291
Follower of Christ!

][-][ //-\\ ][_ ((_))

I miss when thet attack you when you killed their buddies.

  • 02.22.2011 4:36 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Clearly the Brutes did a lot of evolving after Reach.

I like to explain it like this: There are different races of Brutes. It's the only thing that makes any sense.

  • 02.22.2011 4:50 PM PDT

Just for the record, it is entirely possible the Brutes achieved space faring status before (or at the very least, the same time) humanity did. Humanity only reached this level by the late 1950's and Humanity was fighting a sub-civil war with the insurrection for the ENTIRE Human-Covenant war. At least Brutes knew how to ummm...put their differences aside for a common goal.

This is biased. Brutes have civil wars just like humans, although MUCH more inhumane. They eat their killed enemy brutes bodies. They went to a point of Nuclear Warfare and lost their touch with civilization and reduced their race to nothing but savages that managed to make inefficient weapons that all need the addition of a Bayonet(Which look awesome).

  • 02.22.2011 4:56 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: dahuterschuter
Clearly the Brutes did a lot of evolving after Reach.

I like to explain it like this: There are different races of Brutes. It's the only thing that makes any sense.


you are a smart cookie...this could also work...

  • 02.22.2011 4:56 PM PDT

Yes, I AM just that awesome.

The only complaint I have about Reach Brutes was that their mouths didn't stay open when they died all the time. *Teabagging face*

  • 02.22.2011 4:58 PM PDT

Check out 8 1/2 SPARTANS

brutes in halo 2 were better than anything else I've seen because they literally went ape -blam!- on you.

of course in ODST, the cheiftians were terrifying to face.

[Edited on 02.22.2011 5:11 PM PST]

  • 02.22.2011 5:07 PM PDT

Check out 8 1/2 SPARTANS

Posted by: Delta Ranger74

Posted by: mojeda101
The Brutes on Reach were from a different clan, not under Tartarus, who of course allowed Brutes to grow out their hair. These were under the Prophets, which if you notice in Halo 3, also had no hair, because the Prophets ordered all Brutes to be shaved and given Power Armor since Tartarus was no longer around.

I also hate that they removed Berserk from the Brute. I missed seeing them fly to you and can kill you in one hit but you can kill them with a few shots. I wanted them to have hair, I truely did, I wanted to face Bigfoot's, Bungie decided otherwise.

But at least there is a reason why, you're welcome.

Love, A Brute Fan as well =]


You+Knowlege=OWN

Tartarsause was the leader of all the brutes. His Hammer is one of a kind and is only carried by the leader of the Brutes

  • 02.22.2011 5:10 PM PDT

(\.(\
(='.' )
(,(")(")


Posted by: Naked Crook
So? Put it like this.

You're boss is going to fire you unless you get a haircut.

It's like that for the Brutes under the Prophets. They will kill them unless they shave. Hair gets in the way.


No...

You forget, Tartarus was Truth's second in command in his little plot...and he was as hairy as sin.

Also...Halo 3/ODST Brutes has more hair (if only at least a mohawk) than Chieftains in Reach. Why would an ultra-religious organization ease up on its standards?

Also...have you peeked under a Halo 3/ODST Brute's garments lately? I don't think so. You have no idea how hairy they are under that body suit
at the time of halo 2 and 3 the covenant were in a bad bad way as far as military and their government, reach was the height of their military strength and probably enforced regulations, when the government started to lose steam effort went from 'lets have brutes shave' to 'i don't care how hairy you are kill them now.'

  • 02.22.2011 5:13 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: BouncedMr happy
The only complaint I have about Reach Brutes was that their mouths didn't stay open when they died all the time. *Teabagging face*


I didn't know you like performing inappropriate acts on other guys like that.

Whatever floats your boat...

  • 02.22.2011 5:57 PM PDT

I also agree. They go from mutant, Kick-ass monkey men to whatever the hell those things are. They DON"T deserve to be called Brutes.

  • 02.22.2011 6:37 PM PDT

Leader of the Deadly Viper Squad

Apart from the Minor who looks like a cave troll, my only concern was the Chieftains. Unfortunately in my opinion, their gameplay and design was much better in Halo 3/ODST.

Also, is it just me, or do you miss Jumppacks?

[Edited on 02.22.2011 6:59 PM PST]

  • 02.22.2011 6:58 PM PDT

"Concise and devoid of elegance...what I have come to expect from human communication"-Endless Summer


Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: Metroidman42
Dirty the name of Brutes? Your -blam!-ing me right? they eat people!

Where the hell have you been since Halo 2?! Brutes are -blam!-


Who cares if they eat people. That adds a dimension to them as believable enemies. This is called character development, something that is overlooked by most designers/producers/and young people. You have more reason to believe they are bad if they eat people. It makes them unique and interesting. Name me one other Covenant race that eats people?

You diss the Brutes? You sound like someone who idolizes the Elites. At least brutes can perform simply physical tasks like:

-heavy lifting
-climbing ladders
-learning languages

That's right. Elites have malformed legs, no tongues, and are considerably weaker in terms of Physical strength than a Brute is. In hand to hand combat, an Elite will be dismembered before it can say Wort. With all these disabilities, every Elite should be equipped with one of these


I don't idolize Covenant scum.

[Edited on 02.22.2011 8:53 PM PST]

  • 02.22.2011 8:52 PM PDT

Please don't hype for games...
They'll just fall short of your expectations and you'll complain for months.

Bungie spent too much time making the hunters impossible to kill without shotgun, heavy weapon, or vehicle. When they were finished, they didn't have enough time to work on the brutes.

  • 02.22.2011 9:40 PM PDT


Posted by: Alpha00
Bungie spent too much time making the hunters impossible to kill without shotgun, heavy weapon, or vehicle. When they were finished, they didn't have enough time to work on the brutes.

this actually makes sense lol

  • 02.23.2011 1:01 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Alpha00
Bungie spent too much time making the hunters impossible to kill without shotgun, heavy weapon, or vehicle. When they were finished, they didn't have enough time to work on the brutes.


This made my day.

Bravo!

  • 02.23.2011 11:20 AM PDT

They could of done with Sheilds and theory were so fun to beat up.

  • 02.23.2011 12:45 PM PDT

Got Milk?

Posted by: Naked Crook
But...I am pretty sure, if we did role reversal, and played as a Brute against Elites/Spartans...you could make similar arguments why Spartans/Elites were boring to fight. Bungie was never good with AI it seems.

---

But look, I think we are all forgetting something...

The topic is the APPEARANCE of the Brutes, not how they play, or how they act.

I think we have all lost sight of this, and we just need to step back, and rethink what we are ALL saying, including myself.

from an APPEARANCE aspect, I highly disapprove of Brutes Reach. Lets try and focus on the concept of APPEARANCE first and foremost.


Ok so :)

Appearance wise they are definitely lacking in any real menace. I don't freak if i see a brute advancing...their look/persona don't instill fear in my heart.

  • 02.23.2011 12:55 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Naked Crook
The Prophets were contradicting their own teachings, which confused the Elites. The Elites would have favored Humanity a part of the Covenant, as is what the Prophets supposedly offer all races as a choice. It is also in the Elites tradition to accept those who fought them into their ranks.

The Brutes do not question authority. The Elites do. They are more devout to the Great Journey than the Elites. Thus the Heirarchs plotted the genocide of the Elites and to replace them with Brutes, as the Elites were becoming more aware (Heretics such as Sesa 'Refumee and the dilemma of Humanity). The assassination of Regret and replacing of the Guard was simply a means to an end. The seeds of the Elites joining with Humanity rather than the Brutes were plotted in the story well before the Brutes became proper characters and the majority of the extended canon created when the Conversations from the Universe booklet was released with Halo 2 limited edition.

So yeah, the Schism was not a temper tantrum from the Elites, but a response to the Prophets declaring genocide of their entire race.

  • 02.23.2011 1:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Dj Liamo

Ok so :)

Appearance wise they are definitely lacking in any real menace. I don't freak if i see a brute advancing...their look/persona don't instill fear in my heart.


Right...right...I agree. I was annoyed when I saw them in Reach, they were such an eyesore that you just wanted to advance past them...and their appearance could have been done without.

But see...appearance wise, I have difficulty accepting the clan theory about shaving hair.

This is how I see it:

The Brute Army Commander (which in my opinion looks pretty cool) has full Halo 3/ODST style Chieftain armor. Full in the sense that it is a full suit. Even the Brutes in Halo Wars had power armor reminiscent of Halo 3/ODST. You can see it clear as day! Halo Wars managed not to break the canon...so...I could accept it into the time line. Sure...they found the flood and Forerunner stuff...but...since they were stranded, they couldn't tell anyone...so the chronology was intact. For all we know...the next Halo game could feature Spirit of Fire and it could detail this stuff double time. Just saying...its possible...not making a prediction here.

So its established Brutes were allowed Power Armor as early as 2531. If you look really close in the second picture...you can see a Halo 3/ODST style goatee. With three games establishing this hansom fellow as the norm...I am inclined to believe the majority of Brutes are represeted by Halo Wars/3/ODST Brutes

One thing this does not prove is if they were fully shaved. But we have a base appearance.

So Halo 2 introduces the Shaggy Brute...or the first Brute ever in Halo history. Now...if you compare the Shaggy Brute to the Halo 3 Brute...you will see...generally speaking...both Brutes look identical...for the most part. One is naked however. If you look at where the shaggy brute has hair, and where the Halo 3 Brute exposes skin...you will see that the shaggy brute is just a Halo 3 Brute without cloths.

It is possible that Halo Wars/3/ODST Brutes were, in fact, still shaggy...but with armor.

So...we have 4 games where there is an established norm to the Brutes here. There is no way all these dudes are from the same clan. I am gonna guess for Brutes, armor was optional. I am not buying this "His clan" and "their clan" nonsense. The Covenant ended their clan wars and united them for the most part. With a universal Chieftain of the Brutes, I doubt the existence of clans play a vital role in determining appearance during the Covenant Era. I surmise it was personal choice.

Could this same argument be used for Reach brutes to? No. Now look at Reach...talk about messing things up. In fact...they put Brutes in tight fitting speedos. That's messed up. Brutes aside....everything looked different. I even hated how the Elites looked. They looked nothing like the Halo CE Elites. Grunts looked nothing like Halo CE grunts. Was there a toxic waste leak in a Covenant reactor which changed the way Elites and Grunts look? Was there a massive, over the span of an hour, shift in technology? All the Covenant species were messed up, so what appears in Reach is generally flawed.

But...back on topic.

With this massive post...I am going to surmise between Halo 2 and Halo Wars/3/ODST...the Brutes never shaved any hair, aside from facial and head grooming for personal preference (cause goatees and mohawks kick ass) and in fact, were just forced to wear armor due to their leadership role in the post-schism Covenant. Pre-schism...they must have had a choice.

Any thoughts?

  • 02.23.2011 1:30 PM PDT

I like to play Devil's Advocate


Any thoughts?


That hit the nail on the head

  • 02.23.2011 4:54 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Gamertag: J7XD
New BNET: J7XD

Goatees, Goatees never die, they're just missing in action.

  • 02.23.2011 4:58 PM PDT