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Subject: Too long a war?

Before I start let me just say, this is my opinion on the matter in hand. I am here so you can hopefully explain to me what I am missing. I do not wish to be told that my opinion doesn't match canon.

It has come to my attention that the covenant are portrayed as being too strong.
Let me explain. The covenant outnumber us, have the technological advantage, strategic advantage and in most cases a significant tactical advantage too.
* How then did it take 20+ years to wipe us out?
* Why could the UNSC hold their own, and in many cases win on the ground?
* Why did the covenant have to resort to glassing planets because occupation proved too costly?

The way I see it, either the covenant are most akin to how they are portrayed in Halo: Landfall (this is how I see the universe),
Or Spartans are significantly "better" than any covenant species and can hold their own against many elites or brutes (see Noble 6),
Or, the war only lasted at most 3 years and the 2525-2552 is a load of rubbish,
Or, last but not least, it wasn't a "war" or "xenocide" as opposed to a few battles and a couple fo skirmishes spread out so thinly most people barely noticed.


So I ask you, in adition to the above questions, is covenant technology really as good as it is portrayed? And are Elites really as fast/strong as portrayed?

  • 02.22.2011 12:42 PM PDT

The Covenant simply didn't know where the human worlds were. They had to resort to checking every star system in the orion arm. That's what took them so long. Also in the beginning of the war the UNSC outnumbered the Covenant in all space battles.

The covenant was never there to occupy. Their goal was to kill every single human, and orbital bombardment is the most effective way to do that.

  • 02.22.2011 12:53 PM PDT

took 20 years because we were battling across interstellar space, and keeping our locations secret

UNSC did not really hold their own. in Halo 3, Earth was pretty much the last human stronghold, and it was being invaded

Covenant glassed planets as a sign of complete victory or maybe some sort of religious act. They didn't want us to serve or surrender, they wanted us to go extinct because we were "defiling" forerunner artifacts

Humanity was lucky as hell to have survived the covenant. The flood helped to mix things up a lot as well, it hit the covenant WAY harder than it hit humanity

[Edited on 02.22.2011 12:55 PM PST]

  • 02.22.2011 12:53 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

The Covenant didn't know where human worlds were. I'm sure there were months if not years of timespan between the Covenant finding a human world.

  • 02.22.2011 1:03 PM PDT
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It wasn't a total war on the Covienant's part. Being so far advanced, they didn't exactly need to send every ship in their fleet into human territory. They did it slowly, with a few colonies destroyed a year.



  • 02.22.2011 1:15 PM PDT

Space is a pretty big place you know.

  • 02.22.2011 1:25 PM PDT

as said before it took so long because they had to find the colonies. then they tried to kill everybody on that colony.

  • 02.22.2011 1:36 PM PDT

YOU'RE STILL ALIVE?!?

Posted by: Mutoid Log
The Covenant simply didn't know where the human worlds were. They had to resort to checking every star system in the orion arm. That's what took them so long. Also in the beginning of the war the UNSC outnumbered the Covenant in all space battles.

The covenant was never there to occupy. Their goal was to kill every single human, and orbital bombardment is the most effective way to do that.



This, and wern't they more concerned with finding Forerunner tech than fighting Humanity?

  • 02.22.2011 1:44 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Covenant had no idea where human colonies were, and Humanity was spread all over their sector of the galaxy. Then implementing the Cole Protocole made it almost impossible for the Covenant to find UNSC worlds.

Pretty much worlds they accidentaly stumbled upon or probes happend to find were attacked.

  • 02.22.2011 1:45 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

The war took so long because the Covenant had to go look for all of our colonies. That said, it is kind of funny how much faster things started to happen in 2552.

The UNSC was able to hold their own on the ground because they had the home field advantage. The covenant had better technology, but the humans knew the landscape. They also were determined to hold their ground, after all, "It's our dirt, dammit!"

This is similar to a bunch of insurgents fighting the United States with just AK-47s and old artillery shells. They fought a guerrilla war.

  • 02.22.2011 1:50 PM PDT

The covenant military leaders went wherever the prohpets told them. While the prophets were certainly happy to kill humans, their main objective was to find planets with forerunner artifacts, as they wanted whatever led them to the halo rings. Of course it so happened that humanities most well protected planets are also the ones with the most valuable artifacts. Of course, that was sort of done on purpose by the forerunners. Bu putting the ark on humanities homeworld, then the ark would also be the last thing an enemy trying to find it...found.

Also humanity had I think it was 800 inhabited planets (that seems about 3x what I would have guessed though).

I think the forerunners purposely left their artifacts on human worlds with the hope that one humanity was "evolved" enough, they would discover them and their purpose themselves, since they were intended to inherit all the forerunner left behind.

They were forced to discover this fate a few hundred years earlier than probably intended, thanks to the covenant, but thanks to Dr Halsey they found exactly what they needed just in time.


[Edited on 02.22.2011 2:11 PM PST]

  • 02.22.2011 2:05 PM PDT

Or we don't relise it but we have a natural talent for war... I mean, come on... The first thing we did was make a stick pointy so we could fight.

  • 02.22.2011 2:14 PM PDT

It takes a long time to find a planet that you don't know where it is in the infinite expanse of space. besides it takes months for UNSC ships to go from the inner colonies to the outer. Covenant ships are still significantly faster, but they would still take a while to get around.

  • 02.22.2011 2:16 PM PDT

Posted by: jonesy90000
Or we don't relise it but we have a natural talent for war... I mean, come on... The first thing we did was make a stick pointy so we could fight.

orrrr hunt food?

  • 02.22.2011 2:16 PM PDT


Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: jonesy90000
Or we don't relise it but we have a natural talent for war... I mean, come on... The first thing we did was make a stick pointy so we could fight.

orrrr hunt food?
we had to fight the animal to kill it , din't we?

  • 02.22.2011 2:22 PM PDT

Posted by: jonesy90000

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: jonesy90000
Or we don't relise it but we have a natural talent for war... I mean, come on... The first thing we did was make a stick pointy so we could fight.

orrrr hunt food?
we had to fight the animal to kill it , din't we?


it's off topic for sure, but i feel like ancient humans probably avoided anything they had to fight and hunted anything that didn't fight back.

  • 02.22.2011 2:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: CTN 0452 9
The war took so long because the Covenant had to go look for all of our colonies. That said, it is kind of funny how much faster things started to happen in 2552.

The UNSC was able to hold their own on the ground because they had the home field advantage. The covenant had better technology, but the humans knew the landscape. They also were determined to hold their ground, after all, "It's our dirt, dammit!"

This is similar to a bunch of insurgents fighting the United States with just AK-47s and old artillery shells. They fought a guerrilla war.


I agree.

Sigma Octanus IV, Reach, Earth, Alpha Halo, Unyielding Hierophant, Delta Halo, High Charity and the Ark were all found within 4 months.

  • 02.22.2011 2:30 PM PDT


Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: jonesy90000

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: jonesy90000
Or we don't relise it but we have a natural talent for war... I mean, come on... The first thing we did was make a stick pointy so we could fight.

orrrr hunt food?
we had to fight the animal to kill it , din't we?


it's off topic for sure, but i feel like ancient humans probably avoided anything they had to fight and hunted anything that didn't fight back.


We developed weapons straight away so that we could fight other species. If they threatened our way of life we would fight... It is our nature to defend the lives of the people we hold close.

In the halo universe. We had a massive army tearing us to shreads, We fought back by hideing our locations and useing whatever tactics we could to kill as maney hostiles as possible. I think the marines who are retreating in a warthog about half way throught the fall of reach are a good ex of why we survived so long. They had been ambushed and had a hurt soildier with them but still took out the banshees that were attacking them and held a position while johns team got ready to rig a city to blow.

  • 02.22.2011 2:35 PM PDT

(\.(\
(='.' )
(,(")(")


Posted by: RVB Fan 123
Posted by: Mutoid Log
The Covenant simply didn't know where the human worlds were. They had to resort to checking every star system in the orion arm. That's what took them so long. Also in the beginning of the war the UNSC outnumbered the Covenant in all space battles.

The covenant was never there to occupy. Their goal was to kill every single human, and orbital bombardment is the most effective way to do that.



This, and wern't they more concerned with finding Forerunner tech than fighting Humanity?
yes but humans came up as forerunner artifacts on their scanners, they knew it was a corrupt right as the war began, they covered it up made new scanners and killed humanity because the prophets realized that we were infact the heirs to the rings, they could cover us up by killing us and labeling us as demons and any interaction with us heresy.

oops, might want to contribute to the post eh?

i think humans withheld the onslaught as best they could, the fact that we are an intuitive species rather than a imitative species like the prohpets meant we could adapt, we could come up with better defenses quicker, while they may have had the technological advantage, we were able to create things that could combat their technology before they could make it better. coupled with the fact that humanity was hiding the location of their worlds and with their worlds forerunner artifacts we hindered their learning while we kept advancing at a quicker rate due to captured technology.

i think elites are as powerful as they say they are, but maybe not as cunning as we see in books and games, they are blinded by their faith and run headfirst into battle instead of thinking for a moment and using their weapons in a more efficient way. same goes for space battles, covenant ships were better but the captains of the human ships were much more skilled in many cases.

[Edited on 02.22.2011 2:51 PM PST]

  • 02.22.2011 2:43 PM PDT

Posted by: hal0 slay3r661

Posted by: RVB Fan 123
Posted by: Mutoid Log
The Covenant simply didn't know where the human worlds were. They had to resort to checking every star system in the orion arm. That's what took them so long. Also in the beginning of the war the UNSC outnumbered the Covenant in all space battles.

The covenant was never there to occupy. Their goal was to kill every single human, and orbital bombardment is the most effective way to do that.



This, and wern't they more concerned with finding Forerunner tech than fighting Humanity?
yes but humans came up as forerunner artifacts on their scanners, they knew it was a corrupt right as the war began, they covered it up made new scanners and killed humanity because the prophets realized that we were infact the heirs to the rings, they could cover us up by killing us and labeling us as demons and any interaction with us heresy.


false

prophets found a planet covered in forerunner artifacts. they show up and humans are all over, so they killed us. they never realized that we WERE the artifacts.
prophet of truth believes in the Great Journey all the way up until the flood kills him. they never learn the truth

  • 02.22.2011 2:46 PM PDT

The war lasted so long because the UNSC had hundreds of worlds, was composed of trillions of human beings, and despite being technologically less advanced was still a powerful contender to the Covenant. Turns out that exterminating an entire species takes time.

  • 02.22.2011 2:46 PM PDT

(\.(\
(='.' )
(,(")(")


Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: hal0 slay3r661

Posted by: RVB Fan 123
Posted by: Mutoid Log
The Covenant simply didn't know where the human worlds were. They had to resort to checking every star system in the orion arm. That's what took them so long. Also in the beginning of the war the UNSC outnumbered the Covenant in all space battles.

The covenant was never there to occupy. Their goal was to kill every single human, and orbital bombardment is the most effective way to do that.



This, and wern't they more concerned with finding Forerunner tech than fighting Humanity?
yes but humans came up as forerunner artifacts on their scanners, they knew it was a corrupt right as the war began, they covered it up made new scanners and killed humanity because the prophets realized that we were infact the heirs to the rings, they could cover us up by killing us and labeling us as demons and any interaction with us heresy.


false

prophets found a planet covered in forerunner artifacts. they show up and humans are all over, so they killed us. they never realized that we WERE the artifacts.
prophet of truth believes in the Great Journey all the way up until the flood kills him. they never learn the truth
i remember reading that a prophet was spoken to by a monitor (can't remember names its been a while) and told the prophet the truth.

  • 02.22.2011 2:53 PM PDT

Well, the Cold War lasted 30+ years, yet Black Ops has to take that logic and screw around with it untill we have MW3.

  • 02.22.2011 2:56 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: hal0 slay3r661
Posted by: RVB Fan 123
Posted by: Mutoid Log
The Covenant simply didn't know where the human worlds were. They had to resort to checking every star system in the orion arm. That's what took them so long. Also in the beginning of the war the UNSC outnumbered the Covenant in all space battles.

The covenant was never there to occupy. Their goal was to kill every single human, and orbital bombardment is the most effective way to do that.



This, and wern't they more concerned with finding Forerunner tech than fighting Humanity?
yes but humans came up as forerunner artifacts on their scanners, they knew it was a corrupt right as the war began, they covered it up made new scanners and killed humanity because the prophets realized that we were infact the heirs to the rings, they could cover us up by killing us and labeling us as demons and any interaction with us heresy.


false

prophets found a planet covered in forerunner artifacts. they show up and humans are all over, so they killed us. they never realized that we WERE the artifacts.
prophet of truth believes in the Great Journey all the way up until the flood kills him. they never learn the truth

Go and re-read Contact Harvest.

A Jackal Missionary Vessel's luminary receives confirmation that Harvest has thousands of Forerunner Artifacts on it.

Heirarchs send a Brute vessel to secure them.

As Humanity are those very artifacts, and the Brutes did not know this, the Brutes assumed Humanity to be stealing/destroying them. That began Hostilities.

Actual war was not declared until Mendicant Bias revealed that the symbols representing the Forerunner artifacts meant "Reclaimer" and "Reclamation", and that they indicated the Humans as the artifacts themselves and thus the Forerunners Heirs. Therefore the Heirarchs took from this that the Great Journey was not true. In order to keep the Covenant together (and their own heads on their shoulders) they thought they would just exterminate Humanity. They never thought however that Humanity would be as expansive.

  • 02.22.2011 3:01 PM PDT


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: CTN 0452 9
The war took so long because the Covenant had to go look for all of our colonies. That said, it is kind of funny how much faster things started to happen in 2552.

The UNSC was able to hold their own on the ground because they had the home field advantage. The covenant had better technology, but the humans knew the landscape. They also were determined to hold their ground, after all, "It's our dirt, dammit!"

This is similar to a bunch of insurgents fighting the United States with just AK-47s and old artillery shells. They fought a guerrilla war.


I agree.

Sigma Octanus IV, Reach, Earth, Alpha Halo, Unyielding Hierophant, Delta Halo, High Charity and the Ark were all found within 4 months.


Sigma Octanus IV lead directly to Reach. Reach lead to Alpha Halo. After that, it was Unyielding Hierophant then Earth. Delta Halo and High Charity battles happened at the same time.

And it all lead to the Ark. (Ever since Delta Halo.)

  • 02.22.2011 3:03 PM PDT

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