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Subject: Too long a war?

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Posted by: Snowy Zoe
Well, the Cold War lasted 30+ years, yet Black Ops has to take that logic and screw around with it untill we have MW3.
or they could say the main character is black ops is the long lost cousin of his uncles grandfather and just happens to be fighting in ww3, so we're going to make another 3 games based off of a shell casing found on a battlefield in ww2.

  • 02.22.2011 3:04 PM PDT


Posted by: hal0 slay3r661

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: hal0 slay3r661

Posted by: RVB Fan 123
Posted by: Mutoid Log
The Covenant simply didn't know where the human worlds were. They had to resort to checking every star system in the orion arm. That's what took them so long. Also in the beginning of the war the UNSC outnumbered the Covenant in all space battles.

The covenant was never there to occupy. Their goal was to kill every single human, and orbital bombardment is the most effective way to do that.



This, and wern't they more concerned with finding Forerunner tech than fighting Humanity?
yes but humans came up as forerunner artifacts on their scanners, they knew it was a corrupt right as the war began, they covered it up made new scanners and killed humanity because the prophets realized that we were infact the heirs to the rings, they could cover us up by killing us and labeling us as demons and any interaction with us heresy.


false

prophets found a planet covered in forerunner artifacts. they show up and humans are all over, so they killed us. they never realized that we WERE the artifacts.
prophet of truth believes in the Great Journey all the way up until the flood kills him. they never learn the truth
i remember reading that a prophet was spoken to by a monitor (can't remember names its been a while) and told the prophet the truth.


Contact Harvest. Mendicant Bias (the AI in the keyship) reveals that the icon the Covenant thought said "Reclaimation." meant "Reclaimer." Knowing such knowledge (The humans being the reclaimers of the Forerunners.) would rip the Covenant apart as a religion and as a Government, Truth hid the information and declared a war on humanity to wipe them out. (A few Elites always wondered why the Prophets didn't offer humans a place in the Covenant due to how well and how fiercely they fought.)

He knew full well what would happen with the Great Journey, and believed it would ascend him into god-hood.

  • 02.22.2011 3:06 PM PDT


Posted by: RotaryCookie
* Why could the UNSC hold their own, and in many cases win on the ground?

You mean in terms of the idea that the Covenant is supposed to have a huge technological advantage?

Rate and amount of technological advance in warfare often has different implications for different types of warfare. Creating a fighter jet with an AESA radar capable of detecting the enemy an extra 5 miles out can cause a decisive aerial victory due to having a range advantage over the opponent. Meanwhile, in the Vietnam War, on the ground, well-placed sharpened sticks proved a functional weapon for slowing down US tactical movements and inflicting costly wounding casualties.

In other words, the Covenant's advanced weaponry may not mean as much in ground combat as it does in space.

//=======

With good tactical measures, it can also sometimes be possible for one side in a battle to force the other side to lose its advantages.

At Stalingrad, for example, Lieutenant General Chuikov figured out that, in the destroyed urban environment, the only defense against small tactical forces that practically "hug" your forces is to respond by using that same tactical and dividing up your own forces into small tactical groups that "hug" the enemy. The result is a warfare situation which neither side was prepared for, completely eliminating the all unit-by-unit advantage that the Axis forces had enjoyed in conventional warfare.

Furthermore, while this tactic didn't in and of itself offer the Soviets an advantage at Stalingrad beyond their higher troop deployment rates, it DID pave the way for them to bog down and occupy the Axis forces, making them rather vulnerable to conventional tactics (in late November, massive Soviet pincers encircled the entire German Sixth Army). And tactics are something the UNSC forces supposedly manage better than the Covenant.

//=======

Edit: Also, because blasting aliens in video games is awesome.

[Edited on 02.22.2011 3:09 PM PST]

  • 02.22.2011 3:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: CTN 0452 9
The war took so long because the Covenant had to go look for all of our colonies. That said, it is kind of funny how much faster things started to happen in 2552.

The UNSC was able to hold their own on the ground because they had the home field advantage. The covenant had better technology, but the humans knew the landscape. They also were determined to hold their ground, after all, "It's our dirt, dammit!"

This is similar to a bunch of insurgents fighting the United States with just AK-47s and old artillery shells. They fought a guerrilla war.


I agree.

Sigma Octanus IV, Reach, Earth, Alpha Halo, Unyielding Hierophant, Delta Halo, High Charity and the Ark were all found within 4 months.


Sigma Octanus IV lead directly to Reach. Reach lead to Alpha Halo. After that, it was Unyielding Hierophant then Earth. Delta Halo and High Charity battles happened at the same time.

And it all lead to the Ark. (Ever since Delta Halo.)


Yup, I didn't exactly mean to put in particular order.

  • 02.22.2011 3:12 PM PDT

i think it's also important to remember that at the end of sigma octanus, the covenant attached a stealth probe to the iroquis, leading them to reach where the iroquis stopped for repair and refit.

this is why the covenant landed on reach under stealth cover.

earth was discovered by regret by accident. he was following a lead on a portal device and had no idea earth was inhabited by humans, let along the home world.

  • 02.22.2011 3:31 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Sigma Octanus IV lead directly to Reach. Reach lead to Alpha Halo. After that, it was Unyielding Hierophant then Earth. Delta Halo and High Charity battles happened at the same time.

And it all lead to the Ark. (Ever since Delta Halo.)

It's not some sort of great hole in the canon, but it's just kind of interesting the way the war started moving much faster in the last year of the war. This is not unheard of, it happened in WWII and Vietnam. It's just weird, it almost seems like the Covenant only decided to start trying in 2552. They let us hold Harvest for awhile, but once they found Reach they decided to end the war. This probably has to do with the finding of Alpha Halo.

  • 02.22.2011 3:43 PM PDT


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Sigma Octanus IV lead directly to Reach. Reach lead to Alpha Halo. After that, it was Unyielding Hierophant then Earth. Delta Halo and High Charity battles happened at the same time.

And it all lead to the Ark. (Ever since Delta Halo.)

It's not some sort of great hole in the canon, but it's just kind of interesting the way the war started moving much faster in the last year of the war. This is not unheard of, it happened in WWII and Vietnam. It's just weird, it almost seems like the Covenant only decided to start trying in 2552. They let us hold Harvest for awhile, but once they found Reach they decided to end the war. This probably has to do with the finding of Alpha Halo.


It was the stealth probe attached at the end of Simga Octanus battle which sped things up. It's not lack of trying, it's more of there was less territory to scour and they got lucky.

  • 02.22.2011 3:52 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Sigma Octanus IV lead directly to Reach. Reach lead to Alpha Halo. After that, it was Unyielding Hierophant then Earth. Delta Halo and High Charity battles happened at the same time.

And it all lead to the Ark. (Ever since Delta Halo.)

It's not some sort of great hole in the canon, but it's just kind of interesting the way the war started moving much faster in the last year of the war. This is not unheard of, it happened in WWII and Vietnam. It's just weird, it almost seems like the Covenant only decided to start trying in 2552. They let us hold Harvest for awhile, but once they found Reach they decided to end the war. This probably has to do with the finding of Alpha Halo.


It was the stealth probe attached at the end of Simga Octanus battle which sped things up. It's not lack of trying, it's more of there was less territory to scour and they got lucky.

Fair enough... I blame the luminary.

  • 02.22.2011 3:54 PM PDT

BANOOSH

Posted by: RotaryCookie
The covenant had to resort to glassing planets because occupation proved too costly.

Enjoy your evening.

  • 02.22.2011 4:54 PM PDT

Check out 8 1/2 SPARTANS

the human covy war lasted about 20 years.

Humanity has had a war that lasted a hundred.

  • 02.22.2011 5:00 PM PDT


Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: hal0 slay3r661

Posted by: RVB Fan 123
Posted by: Mutoid Log
The Covenant simply didn't know where the human worlds were. They had to resort to checking every star system in the orion arm. That's what took them so long. Also in the beginning of the war the UNSC outnumbered the Covenant in all space battles.

The covenant was never there to occupy. Their goal was to kill every single human, and orbital bombardment is the most effective way to do that.



This, and wern't they more concerned with finding Forerunner tech than fighting Humanity?
yes but humans came up as forerunner artifacts on their scanners, they knew it was a corrupt right as the war began, they covered it up made new scanners and killed humanity because the prophets realized that we were infact the heirs to the rings, they could cover us up by killing us and labeling us as demons and any interaction with us heresy.


false

prophets found a planet covered in forerunner artifacts. they show up and humans are all over, so they killed us. they never realized that we WERE the artifacts.
prophet of truth believes in the Great Journey all the way up until the flood kills him. they never learn the truth


No, the Prophet of Truth, Mercy and Regret did know the truth. They hid it to keep the Covenant intact.

It was only that Truth became so mad with power, he believed his own teachings after a while.

Read Contact Harvest.

  • 02.22.2011 5:11 PM PDT

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: hal0 slay3r661

Posted by: RVB Fan 123
Posted by: Mutoid Log
The Covenant simply didn't know where the human worlds were. They had to resort to checking every star system in the orion arm. That's what took them so long. Also in the beginning of the war the UNSC outnumbered the Covenant in all space battles.

The covenant was never there to occupy. Their goal was to kill every single human, and orbital bombardment is the most effective way to do that.



This, and wern't they more concerned with finding Forerunner tech than fighting Humanity?
yes but humans came up as forerunner artifacts on their scanners, they knew it was a corrupt right as the war began, they covered it up made new scanners and killed humanity because the prophets realized that we were infact the heirs to the rings, they could cover us up by killing us and labeling us as demons and any interaction with us heresy.


false

prophets found a planet covered in forerunner artifacts. they show up and humans are all over, so they killed us. they never realized that we WERE the artifacts.
prophet of truth believes in the Great Journey all the way up until the flood kills him. they never learn the truth


No, the Prophet of Truth, Mercy and Regret did know the truth. They hid it to keep the Covenant intact.

It was only that Truth became so mad with power, he believed his own teachings after a while.

Read Contact Harvest.


ahhhh, i see.
i've started it a couple times, never got too far

  • 02.22.2011 5:37 PM PDT

"You had what no other [soldier] had...Luck."

  • 02.22.2011 5:39 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Well according to Halopedia, there were at least 19 Outer Colonies and at least 210 territories controlled by humans in the Inner Colonies. Considering how far apart each planet is and how long it takes to go one by one across human space to find them, i'm surprised it was so short.

The only reason it was "only" 30 years was because the Covenant could destroy an entire planet in no more than a week. Then a few months to a few years later the Covenant would finally find another world, and destroy that one in a mere few days.

The UNSC usually found succes on the ground, even without Spartans. The only problem was that the Covenant dominated in space, so a ground battle would only occur if the Covenant wanted something from the surface. For example, a buried Forerunner artifact.

[Edited on 02.22.2011 8:28 PM PST]

  • 02.22.2011 8:17 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

No one liked my input?

  • 02.23.2011 7:26 PM PDT


Posted by: RotaryCookie
* How then did it take 20+ years to wipe us out?
* Why could the UNSC hold their own, and in many cases win on the ground?
* Why did the covenant have to resort to glassing planets because occupation proved too costly?



1. Space is a big, big, big, big, big, big, big, place. Rather difficult to find just a handful of wimpy human planets in such a large area.

2. Covenant tactics: Stoopid. Might be faster and stronger, but often times Brains>Brawn.

3.Explained it yourself. Why send troops down when it's so much easier to destroy the human worlds from space, where there is no chance of needless loss.

  • 02.23.2011 7:45 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Son Of Mountains
Posted by: hal0 slay3r661

Posted by: RVB Fan 123
Posted by: Mutoid Log
The Covenant simply didn't know where the human worlds were. They had to resort to checking every star system in the orion arm. That's what took them so long. Also in the beginning of the war the UNSC outnumbered the Covenant in all space battles.

The covenant was never there to occupy. Their goal was to kill every single human, and orbital bombardment is the most effective way to do that.



This, and wern't they more concerned with finding Forerunner tech than fighting Humanity?
yes but humans came up as forerunner artifacts on their scanners, they knew it was a corrupt right as the war began, they covered it up made new scanners and killed humanity because the prophets realized that we were infact the heirs to the rings, they could cover us up by killing us and labeling us as demons and any interaction with us heresy.


false

prophets found a planet covered in forerunner artifacts. they show up and humans are all over, so they killed us. they never realized that we WERE the artifacts.
prophet of truth believes in the Great Journey all the way up until the flood kills him. they never learn the truth


No, the Prophet of Truth, Mercy and Regret did know the truth. They hid it to keep the Covenant intact.

It was only that Truth became so mad with power, he believed his own teachings after a while.

Read Contact Harvest.


Huh, that's possible. I always thought of it like this: Truth really did believe in the Great Journey, but also that humans were the rightful inheritors of the forerunner "relics." He simply attempted to wrest that right from the humans and give it to the covenant.

  • 02.23.2011 7:49 PM PDT

Even though the three high prohpets knew humans were the true inheritors or the foreunner stuff, they still thought the great journey was achieved by activating the halos. Like truth says "I need you...that secret dies with the rest". SO they use humans to send them on the great journey...or so they think.

  • 02.23.2011 8:07 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553

The Covenant had no knowledge of where human occupied worlds were. Thus is took years to find human planets.

I know somewhere in the books the UNSC believed that if the Covenant got hold of any NAV data the war would be over in weeks.

To add to that, the Covenant had no real strategies like the UNSC did. They trusted in brute force and charging in their for 'glory' than think out a fight and take tactical advantages.

UNSC won many ground wars because they had better tactical strategies than the Covenant.

  • 02.23.2011 8:19 PM PDT

Think about the Vietnam War, then imagine us as the Vietnamese. That explains not only why it took so long, but also why we won.

  • 02.23.2011 8:25 PM PDT

We also had hundreds , if not thousands of outer and inner colonies combined.

  • 02.23.2011 9:04 PM PDT

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