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  • Subject: humans and the foruner are the same
Subject: humans and the foruner are the same
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I got this from a Red vs. Blue forum

Okay, this has been bugging me for a good long time. There are 7 Halos, each with a 25,000 light-year range of effect. I did research, and as it turns out, our galaxy, the Milky Way is 100,000 light-years in diameter.

Well, I took some pictures of our galaxy, and opened up a brand spankin' new MS paint doc.

I took an overhead view of the galaxy, and divided it into four sections, each approximately 25,000 light-years in width, illustrated with blue stripes. I then looked up Halo's diameter, and range of its weapon effect. (10,000km diameter, 25,000 light-year range of effect). So, that said, four Halos could be lined up horrizantaly, each at an interval of roughly 25,000 lightyears, and span the entire galaxy with thier effective ranges.

So, I tried to figure out where the Halos would go in order to cover the entire galaxy. I ended up putting one 2 on the 1/4 line going vertically, 3 on the 1/2 line, going vertically, with one close to the galactic center. I put the other two close to the 3/4 line, also vertically.

When they were in place, I noticed that there was one tiny spot not covered by a blast radius. I also found that I couldn't move one of the radii into place over there without giving up a very large section of the galaxy.

I took a different overhead view, this one showed the names of the spiral arms of this galaxy, and the part not covered was a small portion of the Perseus arm. To be more specific, it did not cover Sol System.

Now, this is pretty amazing in my opinion. The one place a Halo's blast could not reach without giving up a different, larger portion of the galaxy happened to be Sol System. This isn't because I love humans, or I wanted it to be like that (trust me, I don't). It is eerily odd.

This gives some pretty nice proof (in my eyes) that Earth IS the Ark spoken of in Halo 2. In biblical stories, Noah, commisioned by God, was told to build an Ark, so many cubits x so many cubits x so many cubits. What the hell is a cubit anyway. Nevermind, I digriss.

So, this Ark was the only palce on Earth to be able to be saved by the 40 day and night torrential FLOOD God was about to bring. Noah was told to bring aboard 7 pairs of every ritually clean animal, and 1 pair of every "unclean" animal. (ritually clean animals were Doves, pigeons, oxen, sheep, and some others I can't remember), Noah's wife, sons, and his sons' wives.

So, once God FLOODED Earth, and the FLOOD was all gone, God made a COVENANT with Noah never to FLOOD the earth again. This is signified by a rainbow, the crappiest of miracles.

So, translating this from Bible to Halo, we get:
So-and-so (person-A) was instructed by so-and-so (person-B) to create an Ark that could survive the Flood once the Halos were activated. A place that would lie in a dead zone where none of the Halos' blasts could reach (Earth). So, Person A creates an Ark that could survive the Flood, and once the Flood is go (all life is destroyed), Person-A and several other Person-A like individuals (Forerunners) could emerge and re-populate the galaxy.

Now, approx. 100,000 years ago, the Halos were last activated. Also approx 100,000 years ago, -blam!--Sapiens take the high rung on the Food Chain. So, if Person-A comes to the Ark (earth) with the other Forerunners (possibly humans) that would explain why Humans were able to survive the last Halo activation.

So, it is in my conclusion, that the Forerunners are Humans, and the Ark is, or is on Earth

  • 12.19.2005 7:20 PM PDT
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after rechecking the work of someone else (10 times) I got the same reasult he got (above)

  • 12.19.2005 8:08 PM PDT
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you guys have no life do you? and why not put a pic so the rest of us can see what your talking about?

  • 12.19.2005 8:28 PM PDT
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Earth was well within 25,000 LY of Alpha Halo. It took 3 days to get from Reach to Earth, which is 10 LY. It took the Pillar of Autumn 6 days to get Reach to Halo. That means that Alpha Halo is about 30 LY from Earth.

  • 12.19.2005 8:35 PM PDT

Away from XBOX LIVE until both Doom 4 and Bungie's new game are released. The Flood will consume you.

Why so you think the forerunners are humans. Like the "Bible" is talking about Adam and Eve like they built weapons of last resort against the flood?!? I guess I'll have to be open minded buddy.

  • 12.19.2005 8:48 PM PDT
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You're stupid!

  • 12.19.2005 9:09 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120

i agree, i mean the monitors are always refering to the humans as the 'Reclaimers', whats up with that?? if this infomation has already been said, just so you know, i didnt read any of the other messages.

  • 12.20.2005 9:03 PM PDT

Facts are the enemy of tru7h....

Yea this has been debated over and over again.. in the end you always gets two camps of people; those who adamently believe that forerunners are humans and those that don't. Well maybe three, if you include those that just don't care.

i've pointed out before that 'reacalimer' doesn't necessarily mean that humans owned the rings in the first place. the word 'reclaim' has a few meanings that would suit and not necessarily mean that humans are decended from forerunners. Go look it up at dictionary.com. (i'm too lazy to link it)

Personally i hope humans are not decended from forerunners (although it is a staple scifi concept). But in the end i think humans probably are... I don't actually believe that bungie will the 'truth'... It's much more like them to let us debate it in the forums.

-Stu

[Edited on 12/21/2005]

  • 12.21.2005 6:07 AM PDT
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The Following explains why the original poster is wrong.

We know the given time differences for these travels:

Reach to Earth – 5 days
Reach to Alpha Halo – 20 days

In an XYZ plane, the maximum distance between points is a straight line. If we assume that the three points are on an XYZ plane, then the maximum distance between Earth and Halo is 25 days time the velocity of an object in slipspace. In order to determine the velocity of slipspace travel, we can look at clues in The Fall of Reach. Lieutenant Wagner fled from Reach and arrived at Earth five days later. It is never directly stated that he traveled straight from Reach back to Earth. However, it states that Wagner did not follow the Cole Protocol. One can infer that Wagner headed straight to Earth.

Since Reach is 10 lys away and it takes 5 days to get there, we can determine that the vessel must be traveling at a speed of 2 lys per day. We have been told that slipspace speeds can vary by a +/- 15% difference. If we say that this is at the low end (-15%) then we can safely that the maximum velocity is approximately 2.56 lys per day.

At this velocity, 25 days in slipspace yields 64 lys between Earth and Alpha Halo. Now the only way these calculations can be incorrect is if Wagner didn’t head straight for Earth, and then the velocity in slipspace is incorrect. However, in order for Earth to be out of Alpha Halo’s range, ships must travel through slipspace at incredibly high speeds.

Think of it. 25 days is the greatest amount of time it takes to get to Alpha Halo from Earth. That is undeniable. Alpha Halo has a maximum effective range of 25,000 lys. That, too, is undeniable. In order for Earth to be out of range, ships must travel at speeds greater than 1,000 lys per day in slipspace. If that is the case, then Wagner had to travel 5,000 lys before arriving back at Earth. Not only that, remember that the Iroquois headed straight from Sigma Octanus IV to Reach. That trip took 30 days to arrive at Reach from Sigma Octanus IV. At 1,000 lys per day, the Iroquois would have traveled 30,000 lys!

Earth is located about 28,000 lys from the galactic center. That means we are 22,000 lys from the edge of the galaxy. We know that Reach is the closest of the Inner Colonies. If we are traveling from Sigma Octanus to Reach, we are getting closer to Earth. Reach can’t be on the side of Sol closest to the edge, otherwise Reach wouldn’t be in this galaxy! That means that Reach must be on the opposite side, toward the galactic center. However, the trip then takes you 2,000 lys across the center. Unfortunately, you can’t take a direct route to the other side of the center, because the center is a supermassive black hole. This forces you to take at least one stop on the way. But the trip to Reach was a straight journey. Therefore, the speed of a slipspace ship cannot be greater than 1,000 lys per day. This means that Earth must be within Alpha Halo’s effective radius.

You have my analysis. If I missed anything, or did something wrong, point it out. I want to make sure this is correct. I’ll update it with any changes.

  • 12.21.2005 5:41 PM PDT
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Atel C, you mixed up diameter and radius. The radius of the rings effect is 25,000 LY so from one side to the other, it is 50,000 LY. This means two of them could span the galaxy, not four. Nice work otherwise, good job.

  • 12.28.2005 10:59 AM PDT
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You know that how long it takes to get from earth to reach to halo has no meaning in slipspace. Time can be bent and distorted in slipspace where you cannot say how long it will take to get from point a to point b.

Ex. Point A to Point B is a shorter distance from Point C to Point D. It possibly may take longer to go from Point A to Point B even with less distance. So you cant say how far earth is from halo, theres no way to tell when it comes to slipspace.

[Edited on 12/28/2005]

  • 12.28.2005 11:35 AM PDT
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If you posted something after my comment, then I was not clear enough. You see his calculations are based on the Halos having an effect diameter of 25,000 LY. However, they actually have a radius of 25,000 LY. This means that four Halos would have the same area as the galaxy. Let me explain. Imagine you had a square with 1 in. sides, then the area of the square would be 1 square in. Now, imagine you tripled the length of each side, so each side would be 3 in., and the area of this square would be 9 sq. in. As you probably noticed, you multiplied each side times 3, but you multiplied the area times 3 squared, or 9. this is because to get the area you multiply the sides, so if you muliply the sides times a number then you multiply the area times that number squared. Now back to Halo. You see, with these numbers, 25,000 LY radius for each Halo, and 50,000 LY radius for the galaxy, we can figure out that 4 Halos would have the same area as the galaxy. The galaxy has a radius 2 times as long as the Halos, so it has 4 times as much area (2^2=4). Thus, seven is more than enough Halos, especially since the galaxy does not even cover its entire circle because it is a spiral galaxy. Also, the volume does not need to be worried about because of the relative flatness of our galaxy.

  • 12.29.2005 8:36 AM PDT
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I just checked it and your right but if you move them all 3.7 light years counter-clockwise from the plsition I started with mars falls into the blast zone and earth dosn't

  • 12.29.2005 12:00 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

i don't think that humans are the forerunners at all. in the book "the flood" the dialouge between MC and 343 guilty spark showed that MC was wearing a "low level of armor" in "the fall of reach" when the armor was developed it was said that they did so using "other" technologies. plus, the covenant practically worshipe the foreunners, why would they worship them, and then turn around and destroy all humans, if the humans were in fact the forerunners? they would be revered, not hunted.

and in regards to the reclaimer thing, 343 referred to the heretic leader as a reclaimer also, and he was an elite. i think a reclaimer is just someone that has the capacity the activate the rings.

  • 12.29.2005 12:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: WindDog
I just checked it and your right but if you move them all 3.7 light years counter-clockwise from the plsition I started with mars falls into the blast zone and earth dosn't


Holy blasted cow! I cannot comprehend this! Have any of you taken geometry? I figured at least a lot of us were in at least eighth grade. YOU HAVE THE WRONG BLASTED NUMBERS!!!!!!!! AGAIN!!!! READ WHAT I WROTE BEFORE! You guys have the radius of the Halo effect mixed up with the diameter, it affects 4 times the area you said.

Not to mention, if you put a picture of the galaxy that only fills up your computer monitor, you could definitely not have it detailed enough to differentiate Mars from Earth. Also, Mars just happens to go around the sun, so it would not always be effected, even if your calculations were accurate, which they definitely are not.

[Edited on 12/29/2005]

  • 12.29.2005 12:37 PM PDT

Facts are the enemy of tru7h....

Just as a little proof that the 7 halos can in fact not only cover earth but also the entire galaxy....


Go Here

If anyone finds anything wrong with this let me know and i'll make the necesssary adjustments.

EDIT: oh and the yellow circle is where earth could be btw... It's actually pretty generous with that measurement... it should probably be a bit smaller...

EDIT 2: Just thought i'd also add that some people have been saying that the earth is on the edge of the galaxy. This is not so. The earth is 28,000 ly (being generous) from the galactic core. The radius of the galaxy is approximately 50,000 ly. That means that there's 22,000 ly to the edge of the galaxy. So we are actually somewhere in the middle between the galactic core and the edge of the galaxy. I too have read pages and been confused about where we are. but the numbers speak for themselves. We are, however, on the edge of one of the spiral arms of the galaxy. This is not the same as being on the edge of the galaxy. look more closely at the picture and you'll see what i mean.

-Stu

[Edited on 12/29/2005]

  • 12.29.2005 3:15 PM PDT
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YES! Thank you! Finally somebody is doing this with the right measurements, and see? Exactly what I said, a lot of room to spare.

  • 12.29.2005 3:20 PM PDT