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This topic has moved here: Subject: Jorge shouldn't have died on the ship. It should have been 6.
  • Subject: Jorge shouldn't have died on the ship. It should have been 6.
Subject: Jorge shouldn't have died on the ship. It should have been 6.


Posted by: Wazooty
John actually isn't that special.[/quote]

And both Halsey and Cortana, perhaps the two most intelligent entities in the UNSC, considered him the "best" overall for his traits.

So yeah, he was the best.


Viewpoint which could be biased. Halsey liked John since she met him. Cortana is basically a copy of Halsey's brain and memories.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Wazooty
So yeah, he was the best.

He was the best, the best at getting ambushed.


While funny, it is partly true. When he started fighting alone (CE on) he did get hit by a few bad ambushes. Few times on alpha Halo, few times elsewhere.

  • 02.27.2011 8:01 PM PDT

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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
While funny, it is partly true. When he started fighting alone (CE on) he did get hit by a few bad ambushes. Few times on alpha Halo, few times elsewhere.

And the Insurrectionists.

  • 02.27.2011 8:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: egore11
Um, S3s and S2s are the same thing other than augmentation. They aren't even more physically adept.


THE DIFFERENCE IS TRAINING YOU IGNORANT -blam!-! :)


Heh, yeah they got different training. Spartan IIs got a good bit of college level education and a wide training course. Spartan IIIs got more advanced/better training concerning tactics and battle and most likely less of the academics.

  • 02.27.2011 8:03 PM PDT

Posted by: egore11
Um, S3s and S2s are the same thing other than augmentation. They aren't even more physically adept.


Wrong. S-III's were taken from a wider gene pool of candidates. ONI basically relaxed their criteria in order to allow more soldiers to be trained, but the soldiers were of lesser quality (in comparison to the S-II's).

  • 02.27.2011 8:10 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
While funny, it is partly true. When he started fighting alone (CE on) he did get hit by a few bad ambushes. Few times on alpha Halo, few times elsewhere.

And the Insurrectionists.


Oh yes, there was the time Chief and the squad got COMPLETELY disabled, and the only reason they got out of there was Kurt had a bad feeling and hung back.


Posted by: The FenderGlyph
Posted by: egore11
Um, S3s and S2s are the same thing other than augmentation. They aren't even more physically adept.


Wrong. S-III's were taken from a wider gene pool of candidates. ONI basically relaxed their criteria in order to allow more soldiers to be trained, but the soldiers were of lesser quality (in comparison to the S-II's).


Eh, Spartan III's received every child that had the Spartan II genetic requirements. ONI opened the limits to fill the numbers and because the augmentations were much better at the time, with no wash-outs (Key reason the S2 program was so strict, the augmentations literally would have been rejected if certain markers didn't get matched.)

So yeah, the average S3 might not be as great as an average S2, but some people seem to have this stupid mindset of "S2 beats S3 in all situations, no matter who is fitting each role and what gear they have."

  • 02.27.2011 8:20 PM PDT


Posted by: keeno 111

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: kit_103
But it was pretty much assumed that the other SPARTAN who carried that rating was S-117.


That possibility ruled out when it turned out Spartan-117 was neither the best, nor the most effective Spartan-II.


In what way is he not the most effective spartan? the guy saved humanity ffs.


Mission complete doesn't mean you did it in the most effective or best manner.

He also didn't do it alone. There was near always somebody helping him.

  • 02.27.2011 9:35 PM PDT

Man is born free but everywhere he is in chains.

Jorge wanted to die a martyr, saving his home planet (so he thought).
AKA: romantic mumbo-jumbo.

In addition, Jorge replacing Noble 6 wouldn't have been much of an improvement. Reach was doomed.

Noble 6 delivered Cortana to Keyes. Mission Accomplished.

What more could Jorge have done? Save the planet? Not likely in the least bit.

  • 02.27.2011 9:52 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.

I'm surprised this conversation is going into personal skill set....seems completely irrelevant. When it comes to making a sacrifice in the heat of the moment (even in real life) I'd think the last thing people think about is pulling seniority cards.

  • 02.27.2011 10:35 PM PDT

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Close, but the plague killed those infected with it, and the ignorant are still alive.
I wish ignorance was a plague.

Posted by: StealthSlasher2
I'm surprised this conversation is going into personal skill set....seems completely irrelevant. When it comes to making a sacrifice in the heat of the moment (even in real life) I'd think the last thing people think about is pulling seniority cards.

Maybe Jorge didn't want to live to see Reach get glassed by the Covenant?

  • 02.27.2011 10:48 PM PDT
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"The big guy was sentimental."

In Winter Contingency ,he requested for "a full psychiatric workout" or whatever it was for the girl they saved. No other team member even looked at her twice.

He simply has the mindset of a grandfather ,and takes it upon himself to fulfil the mission ,whatever the cost. Since he believed that sending the cruiser to oblivion will save Reach ,his home planet ,he thought he saved humanity once and for all by sacrificing himself.

  • 02.27.2011 11:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: Wazooty
Posted by: Plasma3150

Posted by: Wazooty

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: kit_103
But it was pretty much assumed that the other SPARTAN who carried that rating was S-117.


That possibility ruled out when it turned out Spartan-117 was neither the best, nor the most effective Spartan-II.


wrong
John actually isn't that special.


And both Halsey and Cortana, perhaps the two most intelligent entities in the UNSC, considered him the "best" overall for his traits.

So yeah, he was the best.


Based on what? Halsey never stated he was the best, just that he was in her opinion... in a sense he was her favorite.

Cortana chose him because she had to choose one Spartan-II, one way or another, leading the Operation: Red Flag. That has nothing to do with ''the best Spartan-II overall''.

[Edited on 02.28.2011 12:12 AM PST]

  • 02.28.2011 12:11 AM PDT


Posted by: manwith

Based on what? Halsey never stated he was the best, just that he was in her opinion... in a sense he was her favorite.

Cortana chose him because she had to choose one Spartan-II, one way or another, leading the Operation: Red Flag. That has nothing to do with ''the best Spartan-II overall''.


Yeah, Cortana was created from Halsey's brain. Halsey viewed John as the best and some of that transferred.

Doesn't mean he was though.

  • 02.28.2011 12:29 AM PDT

Remember Elk


Posted by: Rosh117
No Jorge didn't die he ended up like MC and end up across the galaxy

Same place? wouldn't be past M$ making that a game.

  • 02.28.2011 1:12 AM PDT

the Spartan III's in noble team were almost as genetically "perfect" as the SII's, that's why they were pulled from alpha and beta companies to form noble, as keeping them there would have been a waste.

  • 02.28.2011 1:23 AM PDT

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Posted by: MegaMuffin16
It's not in the nature of a Spartan-II to have someone else die for them. Spartan-IIs are much more...honorable...than that. A S-II would die for another before they let someone else die for them. So Jorge would have refused. Notice how he had to pick up Noble 6 and throw him out the freaking window.

Plus Jorge wanted to because he thought sacrificing himself would save Reach, which it did. For about five minutes.


This.

Technically speaking, it should have been easy to trigger it via remote means, "jammed" or not.

As I understand it, you hit a button to get it going right?

They could have easily somehow set something up to fall on the button, or other set a fuse of some sort.


  • 02.28.2011 12:18 PM PDT


Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
Posted by: MegaMuffin16
It's not in the nature of a Spartan-II to have someone else die for them. Spartan-IIs are much more...honorable...than that. A S-II would die for another before they let someone else die for them. So Jorge would have refused. Notice how he had to pick up Noble 6 and throw him out the freaking window.

Plus Jorge wanted to because he thought sacrificing himself would save Reach, which it did. For about five minutes.


This.

Technically speaking, it should have been easy to trigger it via remote means, "jammed" or not.

As I understand it, you hit a button to get it going right?

They could have easily somehow set something up to fall on the button, or other set a fuse of some sort.




In less then a minute?

  • 02.28.2011 12:29 PM PDT

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Posted by: King Nis085
From a canon point of view.

Jorge thought what he was doing was going to save Reach. Not only that, but Jorge has been in the war longer then Noble 6 had been. SPARTAN-III's are a lot younger than most SPARTAN-II's. Probably, in Jorge's head, he just didn't want it anymore. And he thought the sacrifice of his life would save millions of others.

Jorge displayed utter incompetence when he said he would save Reach from the Covenant by blowing up ONE supercarrier. That's not how a Spartan thinks, especially a grade two.

  • 02.28.2011 1:08 PM PDT


Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Posted by: King Nis085
From a canon point of view.

Jorge thought what he was doing was going to save Reach. Not only that, but Jorge has been in the war longer then Noble 6 had been. SPARTAN-III's are a lot younger than most SPARTAN-II's. Probably, in Jorge's head, he just didn't want it anymore. And he thought the sacrifice of his life would save millions of others.

Jorge displayed utter incompetence when he said he would save Reach from the Covenant by blowing up ONE supercarrier. That's not how a Spartan thinks, especially a grade two.


Tell that to Thom, the original Six, or Kurt and Sam...

  • 02.28.2011 1:11 PM PDT

"The measure of a man is what he does with power"-Plato

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
Posted by: King Nis085
From a canon point of view.

Jorge thought what he was doing was going to save Reach. Not only that, but Jorge has been in the war longer then Noble 6 had been. SPARTAN-III's are a lot younger than most SPARTAN-II's. Probably, in Jorge's head, he just didn't want it anymore. And he thought the sacrifice of his life would save millions of others.

Jorge displayed utter incompetence when he said he would save Reach from the Covenant by blowing up ONE supercarrier. That's not how a Spartan thinks, especially a grade two.


In that position, what would John have done?

  • 02.28.2011 1:12 PM PDT

What evidence is there to show that any other s-II was overall better than MC? I'd love to see it.

People call linda the most deadly, but how do you measure that, in numbers or in ability to kill specific targets? While linda may be better at killing single specific targets, MC is still capable at that, all while being much more capable at killing large quantities of enemies in general.

  • 02.28.2011 1:15 PM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Wazooty
John actually isn't that special.[/quote]

And both Halsey and Cortana, perhaps the two most intelligent entities in the UNSC, considered him the "best" overall for his traits.

So yeah, he was the best.


Viewpoint which could be biased. Halsey liked John since she met him. Cortana is basically a copy of Halsey's brain and memories.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Wazooty
So yeah, he was the best.

He was the best, the best at getting ambushed.


While funny, it is partly true. When he started fighting alone (CE on) he did get hit by a few bad ambushes. Few times on alpha Halo, few times elsewhere.


Seeing as halo is not a stealth game as the very mechanics for such dont even exist in the games, then you really cannot judge how capable/incapable john was at getting ambushed through the games. This isnt crysis, it's a game designed to go "shootshootgrenademelee", not much else.

[Edited on 02.28.2011 1:20 PM PST]

  • 02.28.2011 1:17 PM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: keeno 111

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: kit_103
But it was pretty much assumed that the other SPARTAN who carried that rating was S-117.


That possibility ruled out when it turned out Spartan-117 was neither the best, nor the most effective Spartan-II.


In what way is he not the most effective spartan? the guy saved humanity ffs.


Mission complete doesn't mean you did it in the most effective or best manner.

He also didn't do it alone. There was near always somebody helping him.


He had a handful of much less valuable allies.

No other spartan has had to fight by himself for such trying and important times. The other spartans almost always had other spartans to back them up. You saying MC needed others help is more of an argument supporting him being the best than otherwise, since the other spartans all had even better help (other spartans..).

[Edited on 02.28.2011 1:20 PM PST]

  • 02.28.2011 1:20 PM PDT

hey its that kid who stole my name again

OT: who would've taken cortana then?

  • 02.28.2011 2:12 PM PDT

What spectagon are you in?

Posted by: petarded2
Posted by: nofatchicks6921
Halsey said in one of the trailers that there was only 1 Spartan better than Noble Six, and we all know who she's talking about.
Jorge?


I think he means MC.

  • 02.28.2011 2:21 PM PDT