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  • Subject: Jorge shouldn't have died on the ship. It should have been 6.
Subject: Jorge shouldn't have died on the ship. It should have been 6.
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  • Veteran Legendary Member

Noble 6 is the protagonist.

  • 04.22.2011 6:04 PM PDT


Posted by: monkDAN
John may not be the best at one particular thing, (besides a team leader)but he is a jack of all trades being one of the best in most areas. Linda would not be as good in CQC, Kelly wouldn't perform as well at sniping, Jorge wouldn't be as fast, etc. plus john has luck


Wrong actually.

Spartans, by definition of training, are ALL jack of all trades. However, they are experts in their specialization.

In John's case, he's decent at everything, but great at nothing besides leadership.

Likewise, Linda is decent at everything, but excels at sniping.

Jorge could be just as fast as Six or Chief if he wasn't carrying the bulky turret and backpack all the time.

Also, I figure a Spartans 'decent' is great/near mastery for everybody else.

[Edited on 04.22.2011 6:11 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 6:10 PM PDT

☆ iРlач Liке а Ряо ★™

'He thought he would die saving the planet, if only we were all so lucky...'

  • 04.22.2011 6:17 PM PDT


Posted by: spurkis
Jorge isn't a very smart person overall, you see. He wastes his incredible strength and agility to limp around with a gargantuan machine gun and an ammo backpack when he instead could've been running around using more effective weapons and making use of his deadly strikes like the Chief. He also sacrifices himself to shield a worthless civilian (compared to him), luckily the silly and drunk Field Marshall is horrible with the Energy Sword and misses everything. He then finally drops his gun, but uses his strength to throw Six off the boat and then commits suicide.

The chaingun is good for surpessive fire, but Jorge using it is idiotic from a strategic point of view. It also sucks in the combat situations Noble Team get in.


You think Jorge is the one choosing what role he fills on the team? He take the position the team leader, in this case Carter, assigns. And also, in a team you play to your strengths, Jorge is the heavy weapons specialist, that is his area of expertise. And that turret doesn't even really slow him down, he's faster than you are with one!

And I've said this before, any other Spartan would have done the same when encountering the Zealots in Viesegrad Relay, you may think it's stupid, but that's what any other Spartan or military personnel would have done in the same situation.

And there was nothing stupid about his staying behind to arm the bomb either, that scenario has occurred at least once in Halo with Sam. The situation with him and Jorge is almost exactly the same, both simply couldn't leave the ship they were on, and the bomb had to be armed manually, I could be wrong about the specifics with Sam though.

  • 04.22.2011 6:28 PM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: spurkis
Jorge isn't a very smart person overall, you see. He wastes his incredible strength and agility to limp around with a gargantuan machine gun and an ammo backpack when he instead could've been running around using more effective weapons and making use of his deadly strikes like the Chief. He also sacrifices himself to shield a worthless civilian (compared to him), luckily the silly and drunk Field Marshall is horrible with the Energy Sword and misses everything. He then finally drops his gun, but uses his strength to throw Six off the boat and then commits suicide.

The chaingun is good for surpessive fire, but Jorge using it is idiotic from a strategic point of view. It also sucks in the combat situations Noble Team get in.


You think Jorge is the one choosing what role he fills on the team? He take the position the team leader, in this case Carter, assigns. And also, in a team you play to your strengths, Jorge is the heavy weapons specialist, that is his area of expertise. And that turret doesn't even really slow him down, he's faster than you are with one!

And I've said this before, any other Spartan would have done the same when encountering the Zealots in Viesegrad Relay, you may think it's stupid, but that's what any other Spartan or military personnel would have done in the same situation.

And there was nothing stupid about his staying behind to arm the bomb either, that scenario has occurred at least once in Halo with Sam. The situation with him and Jorge is almost exactly the same, both simply couldn't leave the ship they were on, and the bomb had to be armed manually, I could be wrong about the specifics with Sam though.


While Carter may be the boss, Jorge's own weapon of choice is the machine gun. I blame it on Bungie though, for not designing a LMG of some sort, that doesn't require all that stuff Jorge carries around. While he may be the strongest person on the team, that doesn't automatically mean he should carry the heaviest of all guns, let alone one that needs a heavy ammunition container. Equipping a Spartan-II with this handicapping gun just because he can carry it is silly because it alters his potential as an agile killer machine.
That turret DOES slow him down. Period. He can't Sprint, and is often transported from place to place in a Falcon (WC, Tip of the Spear etc.) so that the team as a unit doesn't slow down. When not transported he always falls behind the rest of the squad, i.e. on WC when you sprint to the interrogated, dead soldiers. As if that weren't enough, his cover animations, albeit scripted, are slow and clumsy. He will lean out and swing his machine gun out and fire a burst before lifting it up again and lobbing his body backwards.

The stupid part of it is really how Jorge didn't cease to cover the civilian girl while the rest of Noble struggled with the Elites. He could've atleast faced them when they had passed him and proceeded to engage Six and Kat. His powerful machine gun could've been useful for once, and they could've actually saved the wounded corporal. If I'm correct, securing civilians wasn't their current objective either. I'm not saying that they are worthless, but Jorge dedicating himself to protect one while three valuable key soldiers are in utter danger IS worthless.

Jorge staying behind was stupid because he would technically be more useful than Six on the ground, like this whole thread is about. Of course someone had to stay behind anyway.

  • 04.22.2011 7:09 PM PDT


Posted by: spurkis
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: spurkis
Jorge isn't a very smart person overall, you see. He wastes his incredible strength and agility to limp around with a gargantuan machine gun and an ammo backpack when he instead could've been running around using more effective weapons and making use of his deadly strikes like the Chief. He also sacrifices himself to shield a worthless civilian (compared to him), luckily the silly and drunk Field Marshall is horrible with the Energy Sword and misses everything. He then finally drops his gun, but uses his strength to throw Six off the boat and then commits suicide.

The chaingun is good for surpessive fire, but Jorge using it is idiotic from a strategic point of view. It also sucks in the combat situations Noble Team get in.


You think Jorge is the one choosing what role he fills on the team? He take the position the team leader, in this case Carter, assigns. And also, in a team you play to your strengths, Jorge is the heavy weapons specialist, that is his area of expertise. And that turret doesn't even really slow him down, he's faster than you are with one!

And I've said this before, any other Spartan would have done the same when encountering the Zealots in Viesegrad Relay, you may think it's stupid, but that's what any other Spartan or military personnel would have done in the same situation.

And there was nothing stupid about his staying behind to arm the bomb either, that scenario has occurred at least once in Halo with Sam. The situation with him and Jorge is almost exactly the same, both simply couldn't leave the ship they were on, and the bomb had to be armed manually, I could be wrong about the specifics with Sam though.


While Carter may be the boss, Jorge's own weapon of choice is the machine gun. I blame it on Bungie though, for not designing a LMG of some sort, that doesn't require all that stuff Jorge carries around. While he may be the strongest person on the team, that doesn't automatically mean he should carry the heaviest of all guns, let alone one that needs a heavy ammunition container. Equipping a Spartan-II with this handicapping gun just because he can carry it is silly because it alters his potential as an agile killer machine.
That turret DOES slow him down. Period. He can't Sprint, and is often transported from place to place in a Falcon (WC, Tip of the Spear etc.) so that the team as a unit doesn't slow down. When not transported he always falls behind the rest of the squad, i.e. on WC when you sprint to the interrogated, dead soldiers. As if that weren't enough, his cover animations, albeit scripted, are slow and clumsy. He will lean out and swing his machine gun out and fire a burst before lifting it up again and lobbing his body backwards.

The stupid part of it is really how Jorge didn't cease to cover the civilian girl while the rest of Noble struggled with the Elites. He could've atleast faced them when they had passed him and proceeded to engage Six and Kat. His powerful machine gun could've been useful for once, and they could've actually saved the wounded corporal. If I'm correct, securing civilians wasn't their current objective either. I'm not saying that they are worthless, but Jorge dedicating himself to protect one while three valuable key soldiers are in utter danger IS worthless.

Jorge staying behind was stupid because he would technically be more useful than Six on the ground, like this whole thread is about. Of course someone had to stay behind anyway.


If you failed to notice in the cutscene, Jorge set his weapon down to stop Sara from hurting herself. When the Elites arrived her ducked to avoid the energy sword, covering Sara with it. By the time he'd had stood up and lifted his machine gun, Carter and Kat would have been in the way.

  • 04.22.2011 7:17 PM PDT

No, I noticed it thank you. But what do you mean by that? He dropped it so he could hold her still properly, I don't think she was going to pull the trigger or anything.
He had plenty of time to rise up and start shooting. He's seen thirty years of action, I think he knows how to aim by now.

  • 04.22.2011 7:36 PM PDT


Posted by: spurkis
No, I noticed it thank you. But what do you mean by that? He dropped it so he could hold her still properly, I don't think she was going to pull the trigger or anything.
He had plenty of time to rise up and start shooting. He's seen thirty years of action, I think he knows how to aim by now.


Hurting herself by punching MJOLNIR armor repeatedly. That'd hurt.

Yeah, he could aim, the problem being the Zealots pushed past Six, Carter, and Kat, placing themselves in a zone of fire Jorge couldn't fire into.

  • 04.22.2011 7:44 PM PDT

Jorge should have survived the war, and opened a Radio station.


He's got a radio voice.

  • 04.22.2011 8:06 PM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: spurkis
No, I noticed it thank you. But what do you mean by that? He dropped it so he could hold her still properly, I don't think she was going to pull the trigger or anything.
He had plenty of time to rise up and start shooting. He's seen thirty years of action, I think he knows how to aim by now.


Hurting herself by punching MJOLNIR armor repeatedly. That'd hurt.

Yeah, he could aim, the problem being the Zealots pushed past Six, Carter, and Kat, placing themselves in a zone of fire Jorge couldn't fire into.


Fair enough. But I still think he had plenty of time to shoot the Elites before they passed the Spartans. Maybe not the Field Marshall, but atleast the one jumping on Six and while not killing the one rushing for the corporal, he may have been able to pop his shields.
But it's just my interpretation of the cutscene.

[Edited on 04.22.2011 9:06 PM PDT]

  • 04.22.2011 9:06 PM PDT

No, I wanted it to be written differently.

  • 04.22.2011 9:07 PM PDT


Posted by: spurkis
Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: spurkis
Jorge isn't a very smart person overall, you see. He wastes his incredible strength and agility to limp around with a gargantuan machine gun and an ammo backpack when he instead could've been running around using more effective weapons and making use of his deadly strikes like the Chief. He also sacrifices himself to shield a worthless civilian (compared to him), luckily the silly and drunk Field Marshall is horrible with the Energy Sword and misses everything. He then finally drops his gun, but uses his strength to throw Six off the boat and then commits suicide.

The chaingun is good for surpessive fire, but Jorge using it is idiotic from a strategic point of view. It also sucks in the combat situations Noble Team get in.


You think Jorge is the one choosing what role he fills on the team? He take the position the team leader, in this case Carter, assigns. And also, in a team you play to your strengths, Jorge is the heavy weapons specialist, that is his area of expertise. And that turret doesn't even really slow him down, he's faster than you are with one!

And I've said this before, any other Spartan would have done the same when encountering the Zealots in Viesegrad Relay, you may think it's stupid, but that's what any other Spartan or military personnel would have done in the same situation.

And there was nothing stupid about his staying behind to arm the bomb either, that scenario has occurred at least once in Halo with Sam. The situation with him and Jorge is almost exactly the same, both simply couldn't leave the ship they were on, and the bomb had to be armed manually, I could be wrong about the specifics with Sam though.


While Carter may be the boss, Jorge's own weapon of choice is the machine gun. I blame it on Bungie though, for not designing a LMG of some sort, that doesn't require all that stuff Jorge carries around. While he may be the strongest person on the team, that doesn't automatically mean he should carry the heaviest of all guns, let alone one that needs a heavy ammunition container. Equipping a Spartan-II with this handicapping gun just because he can carry it is silly because it alters his potential as an agile killer machine.
That turret DOES slow him down. Period. He can't Sprint, and is often transported from place to place in a Falcon (WC, Tip of the Spear etc.) so that the team as a unit doesn't slow down. When not transported he always falls behind the rest of the squad, i.e. on WC when you sprint to the interrogated, dead soldiers. As if that weren't enough, his cover animations, albeit scripted, are slow and clumsy. He will lean out and swing his machine gun out and fire a burst before lifting it up again and lobbing his body backwards.

The stupid part of it is really how Jorge didn't cease to cover the civilian girl while the rest of Noble struggled with the Elites. He could've atleast faced them when they had passed him and proceeded to engage Six and Kat. His powerful machine gun could've been useful for once, and they could've actually saved the wounded corporal. If I'm correct, securing civilians wasn't their current objective either. I'm not saying that they are worthless, but Jorge dedicating himself to protect one while three valuable key soldiers are in utter danger IS worthless.

Jorge staying behind was stupid because he would technically be more useful than Six on the ground, like this whole thread is about. Of course someone had to stay behind anyway.


Heavy weapons is obviously Jorge's special talent, much like Linda's is sniping, you wouldn't ordinarily put Linda in a CQB position because that is not where she is effective, The same with Jorge, he fills the role of the heavy weapons specialist on the team and he would be much less effective in a different position.

Him being transported in a Falcon is not that odd, most of the other members of Noble Team meet you in one or pick you up in one, while you might be right about it for the Winter Contingency in Tip of the Spear he was in the Falcon because you and Jorge were being sent to take out the Spire, it doesn't say where or what Jorge was doing before, nor is it really all that important.

We don't exactly what Jorge is doing as one of the Zealots jumps on top of Six, and naturally, since it's in first person view at that time, we can't really see what's going over where Jorge and Sara are.

And why would he technically be more useful than Six? Six is rated as Hyper Lethal Vector, like Master Chief and we all know how good he is and what he can do, and to quote one of the trailers for Reach "Six has made entire militia groups disappear" meaning Six has taken on fairly decent sized groups of combatants by herself and beaten them each time.

  • 04.22.2011 9:16 PM PDT

Linda with her Sniper Rifle and Emile with his Shotgun is aaall good, I acknowledge that Spartans have their fields of expertise and use weapons that are appropriate to them. But its different with Jorge because he can't use melee attacks without dropping his weapon, he can't sprint for his life and he has to put down his weapon when doing casual things, like when he's calming down Sára, whilst others can just attach their weapons to their backs. He can't use vehicles regularly, except for transport Falcons obviously. Armor Abilities are also unavaible to him. While some of them may be a little fuzzy, the Jetpack is at least canon and Jorge surely can't use it (dunno if this argument is that valid considering its an NPC, but since AA are a major factor in Reach I added it).

Before Reach I didn't even think ripped-off turrets were actually weapons used by the military, I thought it was just something Master Chief did when he wanted to go bat-blam!- on The Covenant. It's highly unusual, and just look how Blain from Predator ended up. That's right, with his guts spilled all over by plasma fire.
Even with his strength, Jorge's potential as a jack of all trades Spartan WITH a field of expertise is lost when he carries this thing around.

In the Zealot encounter we see him crouching when the FM appears and when Six picks up his/her AR. Even if we never saw him until you "clear the hole" with him, had he fired or done anything, we would've heard it, especially since Kat and Carter didn't make a noise.

Well, for one he is much stronger than Six, as shown when he picks him up with ease and throws him away. His speed isn't shown though, since he uses that gun I curse so much. It's also a fact that Spartan-IIIs are all cheaper versions of the II's, although the differences are thin.
Quoting the wiki: "Jorge is the only member of Noble Team that has seen as much action, if not more, against human militants as Covenant forces." "[...] 30 years of action" This indicates that Jorge is quite the massacrist (is that a word?). Also, Six is naturally a talent since he's the protagonist. It would be thin if was a normal Spartan with no noticeable accomplishments and then totally owning everything as soon as the players starts controlling him.




  • 04.22.2011 10:08 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Heroic Member

[Insert something funny]

Who said Jorge was dead? It was only a Slipspace bomb. The only effect is random transportation to a place in the galaxy. He could be hanging with Chief on the Legendary Planet?

  • 04.22.2011 10:10 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: xCoNs
Who said Jorge was dead? It was only a Slipspace bomb. The only effect is random transportation to a place in the galaxy. He could be hanging with Chief on the Legendary Planet?

Or Jorge was vaporized by the Slipspace bomb or died from the intense amount of rads given off by the drive.

  • 04.22.2011 10:40 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Heroic Member

[Insert something funny]

first one is possible, but his Mjolnir would protect him form radiation

  • 04.22.2011 10:45 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: xCoNs
first one is possible, but his Mjolnir would protect him form radiation

First Strike states otherwise.

  • 04.22.2011 10:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: xCoNs
Who said Jorge was dead? It was only a Slipspace bomb. The only effect is random transportation to a place in the galaxy. He could be hanging with Chief on the Legendary Planet?

Or Jorge was vaporized by the Slipspace bomb or died from the intense amount of rads given off by the drive.

Or starves to death from being stranded in the middle of nowhere, or killed when the corvette slams into that chunk of super carrier.

The odds aren't good for his survival.

  • 04.22.2011 10:46 PM PDT

I heard that they were going to rewrite the books to make it fall in line with the games as people beleave what they play not what they read
Also the reason Halsey says there was only one other Hyper lethal vector it is S-117 cause it is saying you the play is hyper lethal they wanted the player to connect more to N6 than they did with The Cheif

  • 04.22.2011 11:08 PM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: II Cipher
he's better all round than N6


Play one level with Jorge and say that again.


Being invincible helps.

  • 04.22.2011 11:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tramdor1
I heard that they were going to rewrite the books to make it fall in line with the games as people beleave what they play not what they read
Also the reason Halsey says there was only one other Hyper lethal vector it is S-117 cause it is saying you the play is hyper lethal they wanted the player to connect more to N6 than they did with The Cheif

The "rewrite" of the books was just adding a new chapter or two. There wasn't much changed. Prior to Reach the books already fell in line with the games except for minor inconsistancies. It wasn't until Reach came that major problems popped up.

  • 04.22.2011 11:17 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Heard somewhere they are re-doing the re-write of The Fall of Reach. Honestly, 343i should've waited until Reach released before going a re-write, added in the info from the game, and then released TFoR

  • 04.22.2011 11:18 PM PDT


Posted by: Frenzy256

Posted by: dazer 117
If you good enough in the level you can save the marines, why cant they detonate the bomb, such a waste.

Or have Auntie-Dot clone and fragment herself so the clone can detonate the bomb manually, detach bomb from the pelican and fly the hell out of there.


Only Cortana could do that after she stole it from the Covenant AI in the 3rd book and Auntie-Dot is a "dumb" AI cortana is a "smart" AI

  • 04.22.2011 11:19 PM PDT