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This topic has moved here: Subject: *Cryptum Spoilers* So, about the THAT character...
  • Subject: *Cryptum Spoilers* So, about the THAT character...
Subject: *Cryptum Spoilers* So, about the THAT character...

Favorite video game series: Professor Layton or Half-Life
Favorite video game: Super Mario Galaxy
Favorite movie series: Pixar (It's not really a series, but I just can't pick.)
Favorite movie: Inception

I have a theory, and I'm wondering if this makes sense. We find out in Cryptum that the Prisoner on Charrum Hakkor looked deformed, and it turns out that he was a Precursor.

In the terminals, Mendicant Bias spent 379,807 days talking with Gravemind, before he agreed to join him. 379,807 is 43 years.

The Prisoner escaped on a Halo, which was fired by Mendicant Bias
in the Charrum Hakkor system, which happened 43 years before Cryptum. During Cryptum, Mendicant Bias returns, after talking with the Gravemind, to attack the council. He tells Bornstellar that he is working for a new master, obviously the Gravemind.

So the hints leading up to my theory are:
1. The Prisoner looked ugly, and deformed.
2. He escaped when Mendicant fired the Halo, around the time he visted Gravemind.
3. He spent 43 years on Mendicant's Halo, the same amount of time Mendicant talked with Gravemind.
4. And also, the Prisoner talked about the Flood so horribly that it made some Humans commit suicide.

You've probably guessed what I'm talking about. I think that the prisoner was Gravemind.

If this is true, then could the Flood be a mutation of the Precursors, kind of like how the Collecters are mutations of the Protheans?

So, does this actually make sense, or did I make a huge mistake?

[Edited on 02.28.2011 9:40 AM PST]

  • 02.28.2011 9:39 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

True

The prisoner and gravemind are most likely the same.

But the flood can't be a mutation of the precursors,the prisoner just looked like an ugly sea scorpion.

  • 02.28.2011 9:44 AM PDT

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It makes sense.

  • 02.28.2011 11:32 AM PDT

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I suppose that this would explain who those ships belonged to and why they contain the "flood dust".

  • 02.28.2011 11:40 AM PDT

I think it is the gravemind, but i don't beleive he's truely precursor. It just seems too obvious to me, and i'm sure in the sequels, there'll be a twist. Can't wait.

  • 02.28.2011 11:43 AM PDT

My conclusion also, does anyone know when the second novel of the forerunner saga will be released?

  • 02.28.2011 11:56 AM PDT
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This has generally been the common consensus.

  • 02.28.2011 12:04 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.

In that case he's not a precursor.

  • 02.28.2011 1:22 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Very possible, it's been hypothesized before and I like the idea. It would explain Graveminds "telepathic," link to The Flood as well because of the Precursors neuro-wizardry.

  • 02.28.2011 1:59 PM PDT

It's possible that the Precursors found a new mutation (IF they used mutation in the way Forerunners do) and deemed this to be dominant...

It could also be possible that when the Forerunners rebelled against their "creators" the Precursors, they nearly wiped them into extinction...thus the Precursors wanted revenge so they biologically augmented the remnants of their species to become one living biomass.

  • 02.28.2011 2:23 PM PDT

Damn part 2 needs to come out soooooon

  • 02.28.2011 3:13 PM PDT

My theory is that when the Forerunners rebelled against the Precursors, the Precursors created the Flood as a biological weapon to wipe out all Forerunners in the galaxy. The Precursors made themselves immune to the effects of the Flood and even controlled them through telepathy or some other way to target them only at the Forerunners. The Precursors were able to kill off most of the Forerunners, which explains why the Forerunners don't remember the war. However all of the Precursors were also killed by the Forerunners (except for the prisoner).

I think that the prisoner is Gravemind and Gravemind is a Precursor. However the Prisoner, who i'm assuming was imprisoned because he was bad, took advantage of the Flood after all other Precursors were dead. The prisoner targeted all life in the galaxy only aiming to cause death and destruction.

However, I cannot explain the difference between the appearance of Gravemind and the description of the prisoner. Maybe something caused a change in the appearance when he escaped on the halo, or even when the halo was fired on Charrum Hakkor. Or perhaps the Author of the book had a different opinion of what the Flood leader should look like.

  • 03.05.2011 10:58 PM PDT
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However, I cannot explain the difference between the appearance of Gravemind and the description of the prisoner

That is the easy bit!
Well we know the flood are always controlled by a central guiding intelligence (a gravemind somewhere), we also know any flood outbreak attempts to create a gravemind off the top, SO maybe the captive is the one who projects himself through any gravemind units in the galaxy, bit of a telepathic jump you might say but, He is a Precursor the highest of all highly evolved beings, The Oldest for sure.

Such telepathic powers should come easy to the captive.
Also it would fit with the flood MO as a weapon.
infect, Adapt to create a gravemind then advance. It was pretty Quick to start the process of creating a gravemind mass through keyes.

In the mona lisa story the flood there has one goal of getting the 'isa into slipspace, makes sense as there was an active gravemind on delta halo at that time...


... ill stop now lol

  • 03.06.2011 1:35 AM PDT
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I know this seems to be a controversial opinion, but I never got the sense from reading cryptum (best book I've read in a loooong time, btw) that the prisoner was Gravemind.

Can someone give me a bullet point list of reasons why they think this? To me, it just didnt seem as if it was hinted at

  • 03.06.2011 3:46 AM PDT

I wake up to find myself
After all these years
And where all the time has gone
Still seems so unclear

Remember everyone, the Gravemind likes to manipulate his prey...

  • 03.06.2011 5:06 AM PDT

Dark Neptune, a young amateur astronomer whose gaming life is no different from other teenagers of his age, though he controls it more strictly then others.

The thing is that, without Food, the Flood will die.

But how is it that Installation 05 remained active with the Gravemind, that it capture the Installtion's Monitor, even before the arrival of more "Covenant" and "Human" food?

  • 03.06.2011 5:42 AM PDT

I don't think the Flood are the Precursors[S] because their is technically only one Flood individual and that's the Gravemind. He IS the Flood. If the entire Precursor race was the Flood, the Halo series would simply be over. It'd be like fighting a race of Graveminds. We can barely kill one!

I think the Captive was the one who designed the Flood, which would naturally be seen has a horrible abomination to nature by the life loving Precursors. He could have been power-hungry too, so he was locked up for eternity in the time prison on C.Hakkor as punishment for his sins against nature ( I am a monument, to all your sins ). He may have been exposed to the Flood parasite a little and started to deform.

When the Precursors left, he was left behind, the worst punishment for him being unable to join the Precursors on whatever the Great Journey is, as they evidently went on if you read Iris or the terminals. ( your heresy will stay your feet, and you will be left behind )

Somewhere down the line, isolation mixed with anger and the egging Flood virus perhaps made him insane, and so he convinced himself the children of the Precursors, the humans and the Forerunners, were to blame, so he would take his revenge out on them, in hopes of achieving galactic and eventually universal dominance. He used his own creation, the third "brother" in the universal family tree, the Flood, to consume the galaxy.

Its not perfect since a few things have yet to be answered, but its just a gut feeling, and I've been right before.

Note: I'd seriously take the concept of the Precursor-Forerunner war with a grain of salt. This is the Gravemind we're talking about here.

[Edited on 03.06.2011 5:46 AM PST]

  • 03.06.2011 5:42 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I don't think the Flood are the Precursors[S] because their is technically only one Flood individual and that's the Gravemind. He IS the Flood. If the entire Precursor race was the Flood, the Halo series would simply be over. It'd be like fighting a race of Graveminds. We can barely kill one!

I think the Captive was the one who designed the Flood, which would naturally be seen has a horrible abomination to nature by the life loving Precursors. He could have been power-hungry too, so he was locked up for eternity in the time prison on C.Hakkor as punishment for his sins against nature ( I am a monument, to all your sins ). He may have been exposed to the Flood parasite a little and started to deform.

When the Precursors left, he was left behind, the worst punishment for him being unable to join the Precursors on whatever the Great Journey is, as they evidently went on if you read Iris or the terminals. ( your heresy will stay your feet, and you will be left behind )

Somewhere down the line, isolation mixed with anger and the egging Flood virus perhaps made him insane, and so he convinced himself the children of the Precursors, the humans and the Forerunners, were to blame, so he would take his revenge out on them, in hopes of achieving galactic and eventually universal dominance. He used his own creation, the third "brother" in the universal family tree, the Flood, to consume the galaxy.

Its not perfect since a few things have yet to be answered, but its just a gut feeling, and I've been right before.

Note: I'd seriously take the concept of the Precursor-Forerunner war with a grain of salt. This is the Gravemind we're talking about here.

I like this idea, it's pretty interesting. I had another theory, basically the opposite of what you are suggesting. The Captive was a Precursor who opposed the rest of his race's decision to create and unleash the Flood. Perhaps the majority of the survivors decided to exact revenge on the Forerunner, but the Captive disagreed, viewing the concept of the Flood as an extreme violation of the Mantle as it would indirectly destroy all life in the Galaxy in the process of destroying the Forerunner. To stop the Captive throwing a spanner in the works the remaining Precursor locked him up and left him to watch the Galaxy's destruction. The reason I say this is because the Flood were sent on ships from outside the Galaxy. It seems unlikely the Captive was behind their release seeing as he was already locked up in this galaxy before they arrived. However this is just speculation. Both ideas could be possible, as well as numerous other scenarios. In any case it seems likely that the Captive is or will become the Gravemind.

  • 03.06.2011 8:08 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Accidental double post.

[Edited on 03.06.2011 8:10 AM PST]

  • 03.06.2011 8:10 AM PDT
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UWG Great group, you should check it out.

BungieHUB

I think the prisoner is the gravemind, but I don't think he's precursor. I think he has the memories of precursors because they were infected by flood.

  • 03.06.2011 8:18 AM PDT
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as i said, i reckon the gravemind/flood are the vessel's of the captive's will at the moment location unknown, i reckon he is controlling them being the intelligence behind the graveminds.

It would explain the gravemind rhetoric, "I've been around a millennia" kinda stuff. if the graveminds are just a hollow vessel for the captive to telepathically control/communicate through.

that's what i think anyway

[Edited on 03.06.2011 10:55 AM PST]

  • 03.06.2011 10:53 AM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

It's a good theory. I can't wait for book 2.

  • 03.06.2011 1:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: hotshot revan II
True

The prisoner and gravemind are most likely the same.

But the flood can't be a mutation of the precursors,the prisoner just looked like an ugly sea scorpion.



The Flood took over the prisoner/the Prisoner took over the flood and became the core of its primary Gravemind.

... if you want to get technical about it.

  • 03.06.2011 1:37 PM PDT

i like you theory about multiple graveminds under the control of one better than my original. :)

  • 03.07.2011 8:28 PM PDT

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[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]

I was under the impression that Graveminds were created by the Flood piling bodies together then infecting them.

Jacob Keyes, for example, became a Gravemind on Installation 04, did he not?

I haven't read this novel, but I imagine that he could not have been the Gravemind as we know it.

  • 03.07.2011 8:36 PM PDT