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Subject: Honestly guys?

:P

Foman is awesome!

Here there be spoilers.


SERIOUSLY? Is everyone just going to accept Cryptum as absolute canon? Because honestly...Cryptum just takes the established canon and feeling of the Halo story and steps all over it. No, it takes it, shatters it against a wall and then pisses on it just to be sure. Before this 'book' came along what did you think of the Forerunners? Mostly likely you thought of them as an ancient, wise and benevolent long extinct race of aliens that once ruled the galaxy but sacrificed themselves to save everyone from a cosmic horror. You know why you thought that? BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN HALO SUPPORTED IT. Everything in the Halo series has supported that but Greg bear decided to go -blam!- IT and rewrite everything that Halo had already established. Don't get me wrong I love new information and canon being added to the story but this...this is just stupid.

-The Forerunners are no longer that mysterious, wise and kind race that everything prior had pointed them to be. Now they're just complete -blam!-s to everyone. What the hell? This may seem minor but to be frank it kinda ruins everything, before this damn book came out the Forerunner were portrayed as wise, kind and ancient. Keepers of the galaxy and while not the only species in the galaxy they were the only one with such technological progress and devoted themselves to guard the galaxy from all harm. However a cosmic horror from distant space came and brought that peace to an end. The forerunner then waged a 300 year long war to fight this flood and only after exhausting all other options sacrificed themselves so that others may live. But guess what? NOPE. -blam!- all that because now we know the Forerunners were just neutral and simply just there and to top if all off they were just pricks. So an intergalactic Swedish Gordon Ramsay. What the -blam!- Greg Bear?.

-But thats not even the start of it, Humans got hit by the retconning stick too. Humans in the Halo series have always been a pride species finally making their way across the stars abit with war and difficulty and discovering that they have not only missed so much but also that they are not alone. But NOPE. -blam!- THAT! Because now apparently humans were once pants-blam!-ly advanced to the point where they not only controlled parts of the galaxy but even allied themselves with the Prophets and waged war with the goddamned Forerunner and then not only lost but then were devolved. Messing with the entire story.What the hell is this? AND then the kind and wise Forerunners executed countless humans after the war. Yeah, kind and wise my ass. THAAAAANKS Cryptum.

-ANNNND then we have The Flood. Nope, they were not spared ether. In ALL other previous Halo works what were the Flood? They were that cosmic horror that came from out of galaxy that even the great Forerunner could not control and had to sacrifice themselves to stop. Now what are they? Dandruff. Or more specially a white powder that APPARENTLY Humans had discovered and used on their PETS. Yeah...way to even break canon and suck the dignity out of a space parasite Greg.

-Yeah the even more wise and mysterious Precursors who were the Forerunner even before the Forerunner are now giant bugs. Fuuuun.

-Finally we have all the inconsistencies this creates. So the Forerunners are now dicks and devolved Humanity? Ok fine but what about the Prophets? They merely had a majority of their area taken they never were devolved so...what the hell? How did they suddenly forget about all that and started worshiping the space equivalent of the jocks from Highschool as gods? I know there is 110,000 years between the war and the Halo games AND that the Halo Array went off but a SUPER advanced civilization even with the Halo's firing don't just forget everything. The prophets along with the majority of other
life in the galaxy were sent to the Ark and then sent back after the firing. What about their amazingly advanced civilization? Their towering metropolises? Sure the Array wipes sentient life but not computers or cities or ENTIRE CULTURES. Explain this plot hole please. What about that the Flood were discovered by the FORERUNNER on G617 g1 and not the damn Humans. Or that this goes against dozens of other Halo media such as the Terminals in Halo 3. Also where are the Elites during all this as well? Or the dozens of other Halo species that can be bastardized.

Look I have no problem with adding new to old or creating new canon but this...this is just stupid. It doesn't just add canon it messing with the formula the very feeling of Halo. That is something that should NEVER be changed. But instead it was walked all over. Changing what Halo is.

  • 03.01.2011 7:07 AM PDT

Posted by: BayBasher
Ugh, why did they make winning so painful?!


Many tried, but just can’t beat me
They all say it’s hard but to me it’s rather easy
To do what I do, better then the rest
It takes four words, I Am THE BEST!

Yes.

  • 03.01.2011 7:24 AM PDT

Posted by: JJAB91
-The Forerunners are no longer that mysterious, wise and kind race that everything prior had pointed them to be. Now they're just complete -blam!-s to everyone. What the hell? This may seem minor but to be frank it kinda ruins everything, before this damn book came out the Forerunner were portrayed as wise, kind and ancient.


No, I thought there was more to the Forerunners than met the eye when I first started playing Halo. A kind, loving race doesn't have the ability to destroy all life in the galaxy. Their monuments also seemed very pretentious, as if they were making a proclamation regarding them being superior. The terminals in Halo 3 show that only towards the end of the war they realised that all life was precious, not just their own.

-But thats not even the start of it, Humans got hit by the retconning stick too. Humans in the Halo series have always been a pride species finally making their way across the stars abit with war and difficulty and discovering that they have not only missed so much but also that they are not alone. But NOPE. -blam!- THAT! Because now apparently humans were once pants-blam!-ly advanced to the point where they not only controlled parts of the galaxy but even allied themselves with the Prophets and waged war with the goddamned Forerunner and then not only lost but then were devolved. Messing with the entire story.What the hell is this? AND then the kind and wise Forerunners executed countless humans after the war. Yeah, kind and wise my ass. THAAAAANKS Cryptum.

Mess with the story? Nope, all I'm seeing is excellent backstory there, and a good plot twist. It ties us far better to the Forerunners than I could have ever hoped for.

-ANNNND then we have The Flood. Nope, they were not spared ether. In ALL other previous Halo works what were the Flood? They were that cosmic horror that came from out of galaxy that even the great Forerunner could not control and had to sacrifice themselves to stop. Now what are they? Dandruff. Or more specially a white powder that APPARENTLY Humans had discovered and used on their PETS. Yeah...way to even break canon and suck the dignity out of a space parasite Greg.

I don't know about this one, I haven't actually read the book yet.

-Yeah the even more wise and mysterious Precursors who were the Forerunner even before the Forerunner are now giant bugs. Fuuuun.

It was pretty obvious. A race pre-dating the Forerunners who mysteriously vanish? There were only a few options. I figured they might have become humanity, but them being the Flood was just as likely, probably more so.

-Finally we have all the inconsistencies this creates. So the Forerunners are now dicks and devolved Humanity? Ok fine but what about the Prophets? They merely had a majority of their area taken they never were devolved so...what the hell? How did they suddenly forget about all that and started worshiping the space equivalent of the jocks from Highschool as gods? I know there is 110,000 years between the war and the Halo games AND that the Halo Array went off but a SUPER advanced civilization even with the Halo's firing don't just forget everything. The prophets along with the majority of other life in the galaxy were sent to the Ark and then sent back after the firing. What about their amazingly advanced civilization? Their towering metropolises? Sure the Array wipes sentient life but not computers or cities or ENTIRE CULTURES. Explain this plot hole please. What about that the Flood were discovered by the FORERUNNER on G617 g1 and not the damn Humans. Or that this goes against dozens of other Halo media such as the Terminals in Halo 3. Also where are the Elites during all this as well? Or the dozens of other Halo species that can be bastardized.

Again, I haven't read the book but I figure that they were devolved, albeit physically rather than mentally. I always thought it strange that a species so weak that it could not even walk properly without the use of technology became the top dog on their planet.

Look I have no problem with adding new to old or creating new canon but this...this is just stupid. It doesn't just add canon it messing with the formula the very feeling of Halo. That is something that should NEVER be changed. But instead it was walked all over. Changing what Halo is.

It sounds to me like you're just annoyed that your baseless preconceptions were proven wrong. Everything fits into place, quit whining. You're just being overly pedantic and petty.

  • 03.01.2011 7:26 AM PDT
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  • Honorable Member

http://www.signaturebar.com/uploads/images/62838.png

Yes.
I love the backstory on the San 'Shyuum and their decline into what they "now" are. I suspected Precursors to be humans, overthrown by Forerunners and exiled. Turns out I wasn't that wrong, at least with exile. What most captured me was that it didn't step on the cannon, it simply expanded it. This means this was probably planned all along, contrary to cannon being written for the sole reason of milking something.

  • 03.01.2011 8:07 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Wolverfrog
It sounds to me like you're just annoyed that your baseless preconceptions were proven wrong. Everything fits into place, quit whining. You're just being overly pedantic and petty.

  • 03.01.2011 8:33 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: draim
Yes.
I love the backstory on the San 'Shyuum and their decline into what they "now" are. I suspected Precursors to be humans, overthrown by Forerunners and exiled. Turns out I wasn't that wrong, at least with exile. What most captured me was that it didn't step on the cannon, it simply expanded it. This means this was probably planned all along, contrary to cannon being written for the sole reason of milking something.


*Looks at Noble Team monument*

  • 03.01.2011 8:34 AM PDT
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  • Honorable Member

http://www.signaturebar.com/uploads/images/62838.png


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy
*Looks at Noble Team monument*


My point exactly.

Edit: Oh and would someone please teach me how to quote on this forum!?

[Edited on 03.01.2011 8:50 AM PST]

  • 03.01.2011 8:49 AM PDT

:P

Foman is awesome!


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Wolverfrog
It sounds to me like you're just annoyed that your baseless preconceptions were proven wrong. Everything fits into place, quit whining. You're just being overly pedantic and petty.

No its not "baseless preconceptions" it is what everything Halo had given prior pointed too. And just because something "fits into place" doesn't mean anything. If they made John become half unicorn it could have fit into place but does that make it good? No. Now when you walk down ancient Forerunner halls you're no longer thinking about why the mysterious and wise built it or what they must have been like now you're just thinking about how much of a -blam!- they all were and that maybe the world is better without them.

  • 03.01.2011 8:53 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: draim

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy
*Looks at Noble Team monument*


My point exactly.

Edit: Oh and would someone please teach me how to quote on this forum!?

When you're about to type a reply, press the "quote" button to the left of submit.

  • 03.01.2011 8:54 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: JJAB91

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Wolverfrog
It sounds to me like you're just annoyed that your baseless preconceptions were proven wrong. Everything fits into place, quit whining. You're just being overly pedantic and petty.

No its not "baseless preconceptions" it is what everything Halo had given prior pointed too. And just because something "fits into place" doesn't mean anything. If they made John become half unicorn it could have fit into place but does that make it good? No. Now when you walk down ancient Forerunner halls you're no longer thinking about why the mysterious and wise built it or what they must have been like now you're just thinking about how much of a -blam!- they all were and that maybe the world is better without them.

You have no evidence. Please, provide some.

  • 03.01.2011 8:57 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: JJAB91
Here there be spoilers.


SERIOUSLY? Is everyone just going to accept Cryptum as absolute canon? Because honestly...Cryptum just takes the established canon and feeling of the Halo story and steps all over it. No, it takes it, shatters it against a wall and then pisses on it just to be sure.

Even if this is all the things you say it is, you are hardly in a position to pick and chose canon. The problems with doing that are obvious: You will have holes all over. You may as well quit investing time in Halo, in which case there is no point in complaining.

Posted by: JJAB91
Before this 'book' came along what did you think of the Forerunners?

What you think is irrelevant. Are you pretentious enough to believe that your perceptions and opinions should hold precedence over other peoples? Because perhaps others do not share your views. What happens if, in somebody's opinion, they viewed the Forerunner as authoritarian pretentious pricks? (Of which there is evidence in the Terminals.) Your argument would fail here.

Posted by: JJAB91
Mostly likely you thought of them as an ancient, wise and benevolent long extinct race of aliens that once ruled the galaxy but sacrificed themselves to save everyone from a cosmic horror. You know why you thought that? BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN HALO SUPPORTED IT. Everything in the Halo series has supported that but Greg bear decided to go -blam!- IT and rewrite everything that Halo had already established. Don't get me wrong I love new information and canon being added to the story but this...this is just stupid.

Not really. In the Terminals the Librarian states that the Forerunner stripped their protectorates of all capacity to defend themselves, i.e. Disarmed them. Now, could you seriously imagine such races as Humanity or the Sangheili giving up their military and placing faith in a complete stranger. I do not. So what happens then? There would probably be war. What if these races never bowed down?

Posted by: JJAB91
But guess what? NOPE. -blam!- all that because now we know the Forerunners were just neutral and simply just there and to top if all off they were just pricks.

They were still keepers of the Mantle, they were not "just there". Also, the Galaxy is a pretty big place. It is understandable how they did not know about the initial Flood outbreak straight away.

Posted by: JJAB91
-But thats not even the start of it, Humans got hit by the retconning stick too. Humans in the Halo series have always been a pride species finally making their way across the stars abit with war and difficulty and discovering that they have not only missed so much but also that they are not alone. But NOPE. -blam!- THAT! Because now apparently humans were once pants-blam!-ly advanced to the point where they not only controlled parts of the galaxy but even allied themselves with the Prophets and waged war with the goddamned Forerunner and then not only lost but then were devolved. Messing with the entire story.What the hell is this? AND then the kind and wise Forerunners executed countless humans after the war. Yeah, kind and wise my ass. THAAAAANKS Cryptum.

You know how I went on about races not bowing to the Forerunners disarming of them? Well this is one instance. Unless you think that the Forerunner are just going to pack up and leave...

How does this mess with the story line? Any inconsistencies? Other than a smashed opinion, I do not see any problems.

Posted by: JJAB91
-ANNNND then we have The Flood. Nope, they were not spared ether. In ALL other previous Halo works what were the Flood? They were that cosmic horror that came from out of galaxy that even the great Forerunner could not control and had to sacrifice themselves to stop. Now what are they? Dandruff. Or more specially a white powder that APPARENTLY Humans had discovered and used on their PETS. Yeah...way to even break canon and suck the dignity out of a space parasite Greg.

To be honest I sort of agree here. I felt the Flood did lose some dignity. Remember though, that is not their true origin. Somebody created it and put it into those cylinders.

Posted by: JJAB91
-Yeah the even more wise and mysterious Precursors who were the Forerunner even before the Forerunner are now giant bugs. Fuuuun.

...They are aliens.

Posted by: JJAB91
-Finally we have all the inconsistencies this creates. So the Forerunners are now dicks and devolved Humanity?

That is not an inconsistency. An inconsistency is when two or more pieces of evidence appear to contradict. I see nothing saying that Humanity was not an interstellar power before the Array.

Posted by: JJAB91
Ok fine but what about the Prophets? They merely had a majority of their area taken they never were devolved so...what the hell? How did they suddenly forget about all that and started worshiping the space equivalent of the jocks from Highschool as gods? I know there is 110,000 years between the war and the Halo games AND that the Halo Array went off but a SUPER advanced civilization even with the Halo's firing don't just forget everything. The prophets along with the majority of other life in the galaxy were sent to the Ark and then sent back after the firing. What about their amazingly advanced civilization? Their towering metropolises? Sure the Array wipes sentient life but not computers or cities or ENTIRE CULTURES. Explain this plot hole please.

Did you not read what happened to Janjum Qom? They cut up entire chunks of the crust and overturned them. That would erase all trace of civilization from the planets surface.

Posted by: JJAB91
What about that the Flood were discovered by the FORERUNNER on G617 g1 and not the damn Humans. Or that this goes against dozens of other Halo media such as the Terminals in Halo 3.

That was the second Flood outbreak, around 50'000 years after the first one with Humanity.

Posted by: JJAB91
Also where are the Elites during all this as well? Or the dozens of other Halo species that can be bastardized.

Until told otherwise, living in mud huts on their homeworlds. In which case what significance are they?

Posted by: JJAB91
Look I have no problem with adding new to old or creating new canon but this...this is just stupid. It doesn't just add canon it messing with the formula the very feeling of Halo. That is something that should NEVER be changed. But instead it was walked all over. Changing what Halo is.

Completely subjective unfortunately.

[Edited on 03.01.2011 2:31 PM PST]

  • 03.01.2011 8:59 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: JJAB91
Here there be spoilers.


SERIOUSLY? Is everyone just going to accept Cryptum as absolute canon? Because honestly...Cryptum just takes the established canon and feeling of the Halo story and steps all over it. No, it takes it, shatters it against a wall and then pisses on it just to be sure. Before this 'book' came along what did you think of the Forerunners? Mostly likely you thought of them as an ancient, wise and benevolent long extinct race of aliens that once ruled the galaxy but sacrificed themselves to save everyone from a cosmic horror. You know why you thought that? BECAUSE EVERYTHING IN HALO SUPPORTED IT. Everything in the Halo series has supported that but Greg bear decided to go -blam!- IT and rewrite everything that Halo had already established. Don't get me wrong I love new information and canon being added to the story but this...this is just stupid.

-The Forerunners are no longer that mysterious, wise and kind race that everything prior had pointed them to be. Now they're just complete -blam!-s to everyone. What the hell? This may seem minor but to be frank it kinda ruins everything, before this damn book came out the Forerunner were portrayed as wise, kind and ancient. Keepers of the galaxy and while not the only species in the galaxy they were the only one with such technological progress and devoted themselves to guard the galaxy from all harm. However a cosmic horror from distant space came and brought that peace to an end. The forerunner then waged a 300 year long war to fight this flood and only after exhausting all other options sacrificed themselves so that others may live. But guess what? NOPE. -blam!- all that because now we know the Forerunners were just neutral and simply just there and to top if all off they were just pricks. So an intergalactic Swedish Gordon Ramsay. What the -blam!- Greg Bear?.



Er... the Forerunners being the "wise and lovely race that protects everyone" was never even hinted at. Ever. I for one have always believed there was more to them, as did Wolvers, there was always a reason why they were the only intelligent race around and that was because they'd exploited a loophole in the Mantle. Removing anyone else that may be a threat to their control, like humanity and the Precursors.

Plus, you're going off one's perception of what may have been. There was never any evidence to support the Forerunners being kind and wise, in fact they were described by Cortana to be much like the Sangheili, blinded by hubris and choosing not to embrace the greater threat until it was too late. Your complaint is null.


-But thats not even the start of it, Humans got hit by the retconning stick too. Humans in the Halo series have always been a pride species finally making their way across the stars abit with war and difficulty and discovering that they have not only missed so much but also that they are not alone. But NOPE. -blam!- THAT! Because now apparently humans were once pants-blam!-ly advanced to the point where they not only controlled parts of the galaxy but even allied themselves with the Prophets and waged war with the goddamned Forerunner and then not only lost but then were devolved. Messing with the entire story.What the hell is this? AND then the kind and wise Forerunners executed countless humans after the war. Yeah, kind and wise my ass. THAAAAANKS Cryptum.

How does it mess with the story if there was literally nothing in Halo's canon to dispute it? Before Cryptum we knew next to nothing about the galaxy pre-Halo activation, there's no room for the story to be broken because there never was a story there before.

Humanity being an ancient and advanced race has been hinted at since Halo 3's Terminals with the message that "welcomes" humanity back to the Stone Age. Plus Halo Legends: The Babysitter has ancient human ruins too, this has all been slowly building up.

-ANNNND then we have The Flood. Nope, they were not spared ether. In ALL other previous Halo works what were the Flood? They were that cosmic horror that came from out of galaxy that even the great Forerunner could not control and had to sacrifice themselves to stop. Now what are they? Dandruff. Or more specially a white powder that APPARENTLY Humans had discovered and used on their PETS. Yeah...way to even break canon and suck the dignity out of a space parasite Greg.

-_-

They were created by the Precursors as their final answer to their defeat by the Forerunners. The Flood began as powder, humans tested its effects on their pets and over time they evolved into the Flood we see in the games. They left the galaxy then later returned where the Forerunners found them on G617 g1. I don't know what you've been reading but there's absolutely no canon breach there...

-Yeah the even more wise and mysterious Precursors who were the Forerunner even before the Forerunner are now giant bugs. Fuuuun.

Again, I don't know what the -blam!- you've been reading. The Forerunners were never described as "giant bugs", in fact Bornstellar is referenced to appear very much humanoid with tufts of fur.

The Precursors weren't the Forerunners, they created the Forerunners to inherit the Mantle from them when they transcended.

-Finally we have all the inconsistencies this creates. So the Forerunners are now dicks and devolved Humanity? Ok fine but what about the Prophets? They merely had a majority of their area taken they never were devolved so...what the hell? How did they suddenly forget about all that and started worshiping the space equivalent of the jocks from Highschool as gods? I know there is 110,000 years between the war and the Halo games AND that the Halo Array went off but a SUPER advanced civilization even with the Halo's firing don't just forget everything. The prophets along with the majority of other life in the galaxy were sent to the Ark and then sent back after the firing. What about their amazingly advanced civilization? Their towering metropolises? Sure the Array wipes sentient life but not computers or cities or ENTIRE CULTURES. Explain this plot hole please. What about that the Flood were discovered by the FORERUNNER on G617 g1 and not the damn Humans. Or that this goes against dozens of other Halo media such as the Terminals in Halo 3. Also where are the Elites during all this as well? Or the dozens of other Halo species that can be bastardized.

Well done, you answered your own question. The Forerunners stored samples of San 'Shyuum DNA, along with every other species. They fired Halo which wiped out all life in the galaxy and then reseed life. How are these new San 'Shyuum supposed to know about a history that was essentially wiped away?

I already answred your point on the Flood.

How do you know that these structures are gone?
A) We're never in a position to see them.
B) Ancient Human structures still survive (The Babysitter).
C) 110,000 years would be enough to wipe them away.
D) The Flood took over the vast majority of planets beyond the Maginot Line, these structures would have been destroyed.

Look I have no problem with adding new to old or creating new canon but this...this is just stupid. It doesn't just add canon it messing with the formula the very feeling of Halo. That is something that should NEVER be changed. But instead it was walked all over. Changing what Halo is.

It's not stupid, you're stupid because you cannot see that nothing you have said is a canonical violation.

  • 03.01.2011 9:17 AM PDT

:P

Foman is awesome!


Posted by: ajw34307
Again, I don't know what the -blam!- you've been reading. The Forerunners were never described as "giant bugs", in fact Bornstellar is referenced to appear very much humanoid with tufts of fur.

The Precursors weren't the Forerunners, they created the Forerunners to inherit the Mantle from them when they transcended.


Are you stupid? I said the Precursors were giant bugs dip-blam!-. and when I said the Precursors were the Forerunners before the Forerunners I didn't mean literally.

  • 03.01.2011 9:35 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: JJAB91
Posted by: ajw34307
Again, I don't know what the -blam!- you've been reading. The Forerunners were never described as "giant bugs", in fact Bornstellar is referenced to appear very much humanoid with tufts of fur.

The Precursors weren't the Forerunners, they created the Forerunners to inherit the Mantle from them when they transcended.


Are you stupid? I said the Precursors were giant bugs dip-blam!-. and when I said the Precursors were the Forerunners before the Forerunners I didn't mean literally.


Then it's your fault for not making it clear. You said:

-Yeah the even more wise and mysterious Precursors who were the Forerunner even before the Forerunner are now giant bugs. Fuuuun.

Even still, you've only made yourself look even more of an arse. We have never seen the Precursors before, you've got no legitimate argument to make against them, in fact there's not even a single legitimate argument in your entire post.

  • 03.01.2011 9:39 AM PDT

Sangheili Major: "Brute ships. Staggered line! Shipmaster, they outnumber us, three-to-one!"

Rtas 'Vadum: "Then it is an even fight. All Cruisers, fire at will! Burn their mongrel hides!"

Agreed with Wolver and AJ.

Posted by: JJAB91

Posted by: ajw34307
Again, I don't know what the -blam!- you've been reading. The Forerunners were never described as "giant bugs", in fact Bornstellar is referenced to appear very much humanoid with tufts of fur.

The Precursors weren't the Forerunners, they created the Forerunners to inherit the Mantle from them when they transcended.


Are you stupid? I said the Precursors were giant bugs dip-blam!-. and when I said the Precursors were the Forerunners before the Forerunners I didn't mean literally.


I would like to point out that I don't think the Precursor in Cryptum was quite...right And by right, I mean I think he may have been somewhat deformed. It described him as having degraded legs. At least, that's what I got from it.


Cryptum in no way violates canon. And besides, Greg Bear had the Halo Story Bible to reference from, I doubt he could have misinterpreted the story that badly -and Frank O'Connor was there to help, from my understanding.

  • 03.01.2011 9:44 AM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

So Cryptum is non-canonical because it wasn't in line with your preconceived notions about events that were not yet explained...riiiiiight.

Moral attitudes in a society are constantly changing. In the 1600's it was perfectly moral to keep men and women as slaves. Now it's reprehensible. Likewise, the picture of the "benevolent, compassionate" Forerunner applied to the last 300 years of their existence; when they were humbled by the immanent collapse of their society. Humans were devolved 100,000 years prior to that. I think their morality as a society changed slightly over that period. As singular individuals, yeah, there will stick be dicks like the Master Builder; it's silly to assume his attitudes reflect the attitudes of the entire species.

I really don't want to address you on a point by point basis but rather offer the question what canonically did the books violate? Note, as stated before, your preconceived notions are not canon.

  • 03.01.2011 9:48 AM PDT

:P

Foman is awesome!


Posted by: Levian Nher
Agreed with Wolver and AJ.

Posted by: JJAB91

Posted by: ajw34307
Again, I don't know what the -blam!- you've been reading. The Forerunners were never described as "giant bugs", in fact Bornstellar is referenced to appear very much humanoid with tufts of fur.

The Precursors weren't the Forerunners, they created the Forerunners to inherit the Mantle from them when they transcended.


Are you stupid? I said the Precursors were giant bugs dip-blam!-. and when I said the Precursors were the Forerunners before the Forerunners I didn't mean literally.


I would like to point out that I don't think the Precursor in Cryptum was quite...right And by right, I mean I think he may have been somewhat deformed. It described him as having degraded legs. At least, that's what I got from it.


Cryptum in no way violates canon. And besides, Greg Bear had the Halo Story Bible to reference from, I doubt he could have misinterpreted the story that badly -and Frank O'Connor was there to help, from my understanding.

Frank was also the one who said "The Duel" was early on in the Covenant history and yet it has Grunts in it. Then he changed it to cover his own ass.

  • 03.01.2011 9:48 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: JJAB91
Posted by: Levian Nher
Agreed with Wolver and AJ.

Posted by: JJAB91
Posted by: ajw34307
Again, I don't know what the -blam!- you've been reading. The Forerunners were never described as "giant bugs", in fact Bornstellar is referenced to appear very much humanoid with tufts of fur.

The Precursors weren't the Forerunners, they created the Forerunners to inherit the Mantle from them when they transcended.


Are you stupid? I said the Precursors were giant bugs dip-blam!-. and when I said the Precursors were the Forerunners before the Forerunners I didn't mean literally.


I would like to point out that I don't think the Precursor in Cryptum was quite...right And by right, I mean I think he may have been somewhat deformed. It described him as having degraded legs. At least, that's what I got from it.


Cryptum in no way violates canon. And besides, Greg Bear had the Halo Story Bible to reference from, I doubt he could have misinterpreted the story that badly -and Frank O'Connor was there to help, from my understanding.

Frank was also the one who said "The Duel" was early on in the Covenant history and yet it has Grunts in it. Then he changed it to cover his own ass.


He said that when Halo Legends was still in production, the story clearly changed. This is irrelevant anyway, you have failed to address the points against you because you realise you're wrong but cannot admit it.

  • 03.01.2011 9:51 AM PDT

Sangheili Major: "Brute ships. Staggered line! Shipmaster, they outnumber us, three-to-one!"

Rtas 'Vadum: "Then it is an even fight. All Cruisers, fire at will! Burn their mongrel hides!"

Posted by: JJAB91

Posted by: Levian Nher
Agreed with Wolver and AJ.

Posted by: JJAB91

Posted by: ajw34307
Again, I don't know what the -blam!- you've been reading. The Forerunners were never described as "giant bugs", in fact Bornstellar is referenced to appear very much humanoid with tufts of fur.

The Precursors weren't the Forerunners, they created the Forerunners to inherit the Mantle from them when they transcended.


Are you stupid? I said the Precursors were giant bugs dip-blam!-. and when I said the Precursors were the Forerunners before the Forerunners I didn't mean literally.


I would like to point out that I don't think the Precursor in Cryptum was quite...right And by right, I mean I think he may have been somewhat deformed. It described him as having degraded legs. At least, that's what I got from it.


Cryptum in no way violates canon. And besides, Greg Bear had the Halo Story Bible to reference from, I doubt he could have misinterpreted the story that badly -and Frank O'Connor was there to help, from my understanding.

Frank was also the one who said "The Duel" was early on in the Covenant history and yet it has Grunts in it. Then he changed it to cover his own ass.


That could have just been a mistake, a simple fault that was mistakenly overlooked.
I have done this myself in my own original stories; accidentally overlooked the mistakes such as dates, certain events, etc.

[Edited on 03.01.2011 9:57 AM PST]

  • 03.01.2011 9:54 AM PDT

Posted by: JJAB91

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Wolverfrog
It sounds to me like you're just annoyed that your baseless preconceptions were proven wrong. Everything fits into place, quit whining. You're just being overly pedantic and petty.

No its not "baseless preconceptions" it is what everything Halo had given prior pointed too. And just because something "fits into place" doesn't mean anything. If they made John become half unicorn it could have fit into place but does that make it good? No. Now when you walk down ancient Forerunner halls you're no longer thinking about why the mysterious and wise built it or what they must have been like now you're just thinking about how much of a -blam!- they all were and that maybe the world is better without them.


If you look at it in this new light I think it makes the story even better:

Now you look at these ancient halls and structures as you would that of the Mayan Pyramids or Angkor Wyatt. These ancient structures of failed empires are so vast that you begin to feel small in comparison. But you realize that they are failed structures; structures that are nothing more than a monument to their civilizations failure to continue existing.

It is because of this that humanity's struggle is shown in a new greater light, and their victory that much greater.

  • 03.01.2011 10:18 AM PDT

The Razor.

For the honour of the Mirratord.

To be honest, I prefer the more realistic interpretation of the Forerunners that Cryptum provided. I find it ridiculous to think that any civilization, whether human or alien, can be without flaws. Flaws are a fundamental part of all life, sentient or not, and that includes the Forerunners. How can a race ever achieve perfection?

I agree with AJ and Wolvers; Cryptum merely fleshed out an area of the Halo lore that we previously knew nothing about. Our impressions of the Forerunners are based almost entirely on what the Covenant thought of them, i.e. biased, fanatic religious devotion.

Crytum contradicted NOTHING in the Halo canon; it completely surprised us and blew our expectations away, which is a fantastic thing. What would be the point of fleshing out the time of the Forerunners if it turns out to be exactly the same as what we already think?

  • 03.01.2011 10:46 AM PDT

:P

Foman is awesome!

Phsssaw

  • 03.01.2011 1:08 PM PDT

"You are who you dare"

You owe it to yourself to get out and be someone. Get to work!

-Leader of The Citadel


Posted by: BayBasher
Yes.


Its a damn good book.

I like it, I want it to be canon. And to me, I'm seriously fine.

  • 03.01.2011 1:09 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Wow, there are some in-depth explanations here that really clarify and bring to light other viewpoints that i hadn't considered.

Thanks for sharing.

  • 03.01.2011 1:12 PM PDT

ITT: Opening post cries fromn butthurt.

You know, it's honestly just impossible that historians ever reconstructed the ancient past wrong from research and studies. I mean, that could never ever ever ever happen.

So the Forerunners are pricks, and so the Flood lost in war with ancient Humanity....so what? The Flood still came back to the Forerunner colony G16 or whatever, and everything else still happened.

We just know more of it, now.

Also, don't blame Greg. They included human ruins on Delta Halo, and human ruins in Halo Legends in preperation for this plot twist. It's been in the making for a long time. Frank O'Connor even said, when questioned about why those ruins look the way they do and don't appear to be Forerunner replied "Who ever said they were?"

  • 03.01.2011 2:05 PM PDT

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