- OrderedComa
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- Noble Member
Did that Brute fanboy hack your account or something?
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I am not getting on at the fact that they have killed over 23 billion Humans and have massacred large populations of other species because that was done in the name of a Religion due to being misled, and not really due to their own state of mind.
Also, just because the authors say that they are honourable does not mean that they are as that automatically begs the question, and it is also just appealing to an authority. The authors may say that they are, but their are actions throughout the trilogy that appear to say otherwise.
If you think that's the case then you can't trust anything an author says. Using that logic there is nothing at all to say that the Empire in Star Wars is evil and the Rebels are the good guys. If the author's word has not meaning, then what is the point of even having stories?
This Elite, after being defeated in battle by the Spartan III Headhunter team, starts taking a hissy fit about how he would have defeated the Spartans had they met as "true warriors" face to face, rather than as what had actually happened where the Spartans used active Camoflague. This guy thinks that the use of Active camoflague is for cowards and weaklings.
Woops! He just inadvertently called a lot of his fellow Sangheili warriors cowards and weaklings, including the Commandos who were standing watching this engagement the whole time whilst using Active Camouflage!. If you do not know why this is implied, the Sangheili use Active Camouflage systems rather excessively when it suits them to, and there seems to be no problems when they do. But when the Spartans use it, it is suddenly baaaad.
I haven't read any of Evolutions, so I can't really interject any reading on the scenario. However, if memory serves me correctly, I believe it said in the Flood that positions involving stealth were not a position that were regarded with much honor. And also, every time we've seen the Elites using active camo in the games it is mostly to get the drop on you, the vast majority of the time they don't try to fight you with it engaged.
That phrase about "Human slaughter in their cities and homes" is what I am after here. Homes implies that there was butchering of civilians. What do the Sangheili supposedly think about that? It ties in with their whole Code of Conduct on the battlefield about gaining merit and rank.
So it does not count towards any sort of merit. There is likely little to no honour to be found in it as a result. The most effective way of destroying population centres is to simply glass them. There is absolutely no reason to go down and butcher civilians in regular combat as it wastes time, resources and there is no opportunity to be gained from it. So why was it done?
Seems to me like the Sangheili have simply violated their own morals, and committed heinous acts even by their own standards. They would not consider it as non-legitimate combat if they did not see it as unacceptable, and yet they appear to have sunk to a level that they themselves view as low and dishonourable.
You are reading your own bias into that, I don't see that as necessarily stating that they went down to slaughter towns and villages, if there is a military presence there it makes sense, and that is what I would assume they went down there form, and seeing as at that point the Elites viewed Humanity as an abomination it would make sense for them to kill whatever humans they came across on the surface while engaging the military.
Again, you are reading into the text you quoted what isn't there, it says nothing about killing those unarmed civilians as dishonorable or shameful, merely that there is no honor to be gained from it, it's not a challenge to a warrior and not rewarding at all, therefore there is no value to it other than damaging your enemies' morale.
Nothing really wrong with that I guess, but it utterly defeats the idea that the Sangheili allied with Humanity out of a desire for absolution, penance or guilt. It was for personal gain.
Although here is the real issue. The event with Tartarus, Arbiter and the beginning of the Human-Sangheili alliance in the 05 Control Room happened on the 22nd of October I believe. Admiral Xytan Jar 'Wattinee was fully prepared to destroy Humanity along with the Covenant Loyalist, and that was on November 3rd. Word surely could not have taken that long to get around with Covenant technology. It appears that they just ignored the truth and went with their old genocidal ways out of arrogance, only changing their minds when their entire species was suddenly threatened.
The showdown between Tartarus and Thel is actually between the 3rd and the 7th of November, at least according to Halopedian. So there goes that theory of yours, word would not have spread yet of the Prophet's lies, hence why all the Elites present would not have any problems with continuing their extermination of Humanity. So your whole line of reasoning on this issue now falls apart. That only made the alliance necessary, I think it would have happened anyway or both sides would have simply ignored each other and went their separate ways.
This one is pretty self evident I think. N6 was on the deck unarmed, wounded and yet we see the Ultra pinning him down whilst the Zealot finished him off. That seems like a pretty dirty way to beat him.
It is funny though when you look at what the Covenant think about tactics involving outnumbering your opponent. They think it to be poor (New Fall of Reach: Cole's interrogation) and yet it was quite appealing for them to use in this instance.
Yeah, you try single combat with a guy/girl who has single-handedly eliminated whole squads of your men right before your eyes. And Six was still kicking and fighting even the Elites had him/her down, it wasn't a matter of holding him, it was a matter of defending themselves, Six was fighting those two Elites on top of him/her tooth and nail and probably would have managed to kill them even his/her current condition, so of course they're going to not let up until they're sure Six is deader than a door nail.
We all know what the primary role of Grunts are in the Covenant: Canon Fodder. They are used to overwhelm enemies, exhaust their supplies, clear minefields and are sacrificed in order to take ground or set up artillery. If Sangheili were the fearless warriors that they have proclaimed themselves to be then should they not be the ones charging out laying down their lives for what they believe in, leading the Covenant by example? Rather, it seems like they will only engage once an enemy has been softened up a bit and the danger a little less threatening due to hordes of Grunts advancing beforehand.
One, there are not that many Elites out in the field at one time, even in a pitched battle, they serve much the same role as higher ranked military commanders in this day and age, they sit further back from the combat and direct their troops, and because they are commanders, and thus more valuable than any common canon fodder like a Grunt or a Jackel, it makes sense for the common infantry to go in first. And besides, your point is moot, as we see Elites in field positions all the time in the games, so contrary to the what the books say, Elites do take part in the initial assaults and directly on the front lines for the lesser ranks such as Minors and Majors, and we see Zealots on the front lines quite a bit too, though not all that often.
The Shipmaster in The Return is not leaving a very good impression of his race either. Just committed genocide for no reason whatsoever, but to hell with it, let's torture another Human to find a race that will damn us anyway!
All in all now, I think that they look like nothing but charlatans. It is not a case of morals being relative either, because they are breaking their own morals
What do you think?
He did not just commit genocide, the Return takes place 6 years after the war is over that is not "just committed" anything. And I didn't really get the idea that he was going to do anything to the human except heal him/her, I saw him saying that line as if torture was an option if the Human refused to say anything and their was no other way the Shipmaster could persuade him/her.
I think that you want to see the Elites as disgusting vermin and are thus skewing everything to say that in order to support your inaccurate view. I also think that that Brute fanboy must have brainwashed you or something, you were defending the Elites before, why the sudden change of heart?