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Subject: Could Humanity be the smartest sentients in the galaxy?

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*Warning contains some Cryptum spoilers*






Yes i know this title seems a little absurd but think about it. In Cryptum humanity had a fairly well advanced society. They were well ahead of the covenant species apart from the sanshyum(at that time). And arguably more powerful than the Forerunners.

Once they got devolved it only took them 100,000 years to get to FTL stage and tier 3. Quiet an advancement considering they got set back down the evolutionary ladder. So what do you think. Could they possibly be the smartest in the galaxy?

[Edited on 03.05.2011 12:44 PM PST]

  • 03.05.2011 11:12 AM PDT

No... Humanity is just that stuborn. Take our tech, we will remake it. Hunt us down and try a genocide, we will turn it into hide and seek."

  • 03.05.2011 11:20 AM PDT

I find it impressive that humanity found a cure for the flood when the forerunners could not.

  • 03.05.2011 11:24 AM PDT

Possibly, when we were advanced. Its safe to assume that when Ancient Humaity was around, we were using 100% of our brain power, rather then just 10%.

Damn Forerunners...

But we're definitely the most resilliant.

  • 03.05.2011 11:40 AM PDT

I am Godlike!

I doubt it.

The sheer concept of an "Infinite universe" means that no species will EVER be the MOST advanced, because there will be an infinite amount of higher civilizations.

  • 03.05.2011 11:53 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

First of all where is your evidence that the humans were more powerful then the runners.

Human wankers

  • 03.05.2011 12:32 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: Tom Clarke
I find it impressive that humanity found a cure for the flood when the forerunners could not.


Because they didn't faced the gravemind.

The forerunner encountered "higher forms"

  • 03.05.2011 12:33 PM PDT
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Waht the hell is cryptum

  • 03.05.2011 12:36 PM PDT

Online Gaming's pretty much like a zombie movie. There are a lot of mindless idiots roaming around but you find some survivors on the way.
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Posted by: hotshot revan II
First of all where is your evidence that the humans were more powerful then the runners.

Human wankers

-_- Why did you think i put "arguably" in? Ye youre right i used it to spice up my vocabulary. And please, save yourself the humiliation and dont invent nicknames for the forerunners.

[Edited on 03.05.2011 12:46 PM PST]

  • 03.05.2011 12:36 PM PDT

Online Gaming's pretty much like a zombie movie. There are a lot of mindless idiots roaming around but you find some survivors on the way.
My YouTube channel
If you're interested in vs threads, here's a sweet little group for you to join


Posted by: WE ARE LEGION
Waht the hell is cryptum


The new halo book that explains the mysteries of the forerunners.

[Edited on 03.05.2011 12:43 PM PST]

  • 03.05.2011 12:39 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: hotshot revan II
First of all where is your evidence that the humans were more powerful then the runners.

They defeated the Flood completely while decimating the Forerunner who were a "superior" race at the same time. Had the Flood not been attacking simultaneously Humanity may have been able to comletely defeat the Forerunner. However, if the Flood had not been attacking then Humanity would not have been invading Forerunner space and there may not have been a war. But from with the new light that Cryptum shines on Forerunner mentality I'm sure they would have eventually found a reason.

OT: Yes, I believe that humanity may have been at one point the smartest sentient beings in our galaxy but our potential was cut off prematurely.

  • 03.05.2011 1:00 PM PDT
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UWG Great group, you should check it out.

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Posted by: Tom Clarke
I find it impressive that humanity found a cure for the flood when the forerunners could not.
Yeah, bullets...

  • 03.05.2011 1:11 PM PDT

Note: We did not defeat the Flood as we knew it, we defeated a highly primitive strain with no Gravemind.

Still almost lost too...

I think the Forerunner vs Human War could've gone either way without the Flood tbh

  • 03.05.2011 1:27 PM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: WEE MAN MJJC

Posted by: hotshot revan II
First of all where is your evidence that the humans were more powerful then the runners.

Human wankers

-_- Why did you think i put "arguably" in? Ye youre right i used it to spice up my vocabulary. And please, save yourself the humiliation and dont invent nicknames for the forerunners.


Which humiliation?

Why not? You have nothing to say, I call them what I want and you can not stop me from doing that.

You still failed to prove how the humans "more powerful" then the Runners.

They defeated the Flood completely while decimating the Forerunner who were a "superior" race at the same time.


1)They attacked Forerunner worlds and the Forerunners didn't even counter attacked till they had no choice to wipe those -blam!-s of the galaxy.

2)The flood that fought the Humans weren't even powerful as the latter ones.Because:
-There wasn't any gravemind yet
-The Forerunners enocuntered "higher forms" in other words far more powerful ones.

Had the Flood not been attacking simultaneously Humanity may have been able to comletely defeat the Forerunner. However, if the Flood had not been attacking then Humanity would not have been invading Forerunner space and there may not have been a war. But from with the new light that Cryptum shines on Forerunner mentality I'm sure they would have eventually found a reason.


Complete speculation.It's said that Human defenses were a little less advanced then the Forerunner ones,if they were more powerful then why were their defenses weaker?
20 meter large war sphinxes were destroying and throwing Human starships around like dolls.Ground troops beating space forces,hilarious.

But again the Human had lucky that they had defenses around the indestructible precursor artifacts and they were on the defense.Just like in the medieval when it was too difficult to conquer a fortress.

The Humans were far larger -blam!-s then the Forerunners.Why didn't they asked the Forerunners for help even if they were rivals,instead of that they just attacked the runners to steal their planets because of their lack of resources.Didact is right Humans in that time were selfish -blam!-s.

And from the man himself Greg Bear:

One hundred thousand years ago, the galaxy was populated by a great variety of beings.
But one species-eons beyond all the others in both technology and knowledge-achieved dominance.



Proves the Forerunners were the strongest and most advanced of the galaxy before the precursors.

The Forerunners were sophisticated above all other empires and powerful almost beyond measure.


More evidence


The Humans certainly weren't more powerful then Forerunners.


  • 03.05.2011 1:27 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: hotshot revan II
They defeated the Flood completely while decimating the Forerunner who were a "superior" race at the same time.


1)They attacked Forerunner worlds and the Forerunners didn't even counter attacked till they had no choice to wipe those -blam!-s of the galaxy.

I'll have to re-read (which I'm in the process of doing) but although Charum Hakkor was humanity's last stand against the Forerunner, a siege which lasted 50 years, I can't remember it saying that this was the only engagement.

2)The flood that fought the Humans weren't even powerful as the latter ones.Because:
-There wasn't any gravemind yet
-The Forerunners enocuntered "higher forms" in other words far more powerful ones.

Firstly, there may not have been a Gravemind to coordinate but the Flood still proved to be a menacing foe, driving humanity across the galaxy and eventually culminating in a mass suicide "bio-bomb" campaign. Not something to take lightly. Secondly, humanity are the only species to have ever come up with a cure or counter-virus against the Flood. The Forerunner couldn't but humanity could. 1-0

Had the Flood not been attacking simultaneously Humanity may have been able to completely defeat the Forerunner. However, if the Flood had not been attacking then Humanity would not have been invading Forerunner space and there may not have been a war. But from with the new light that Cryptum shines on Forerunner mentality I'm sure they would have eventually found a reason.


Complete speculation.It's said that Human defenses were a little less advanced then the Forerunner ones,if they were more powerful then why were their defenses weaker?

Because they had been fighting on two fronts against formidable enemies, depleting resources which led to a last stand where they were outmatched.

The Humans were far larger -blam!-s then the Forerunners.Why didn't they asked the Forerunners for help even if they were rivals,instead of that they just attacked the runners to steal their planets because of their lack of resources.Didact is right Humans in that time were selfish -blam!-s.
It's in our nature. Cortana comments on that in Origins. It's self explanatory.

And from the man himself Greg Bear:

One hundred thousand years ago, the galaxy was populated by a great variety of beings.
But one species-eons beyond all the others in both technology and knowledge-achieved dominance.



Proves the Forerunners were the strongest and most advanced of the galaxy before the precursors.

The Forerunners were sophisticated above all other empires and powerful almost beyond measure.


More evidence

These quotes relate to a time after Humanity had been knocked by the evolutionary ladder i.e. the time of Cryptum. It does not relate to the previous 50,000 years.


The Humans certainly weren't more powerful then Forerunners.
Yes, it's speculation either way but that's the point. We'll never know for sure because of the way things panned out. Remember, I'm only of the opinion that Humanity had and have the potential to be greater than all other species, but I accept that because of circumstance they are not. Yet.

EDIT: Quote Fail. Fix'd.




[Edited on 03.05.2011 2:00 PM PST]

  • 03.05.2011 1:46 PM PDT
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Maybe in the Halo Universe, but sure as hell not in ours.

  • 03.05.2011 1:50 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: WEE MAN MJJC

Posted by: hotshot revan II
First of all where is your evidence that the humans were more powerful then the runners.

Human wankers

-_- Why did you think i put "arguably" in? Ye youre right i used it to spice up my vocabulary. And please, save yourself the humiliation and dont invent nicknames for the forerunners.


Which humiliation?

Why not? You have nothing to say, I call them what I want and you can not stop me from doing that.

You still failed to prove how the humans "more powerful" then the Runners.

They defeated the Flood completely while decimating the Forerunner who were a "superior" race at the same time.


1)They attacked Forerunner worlds and the Forerunners didn't even counter attacked till they had no choice to wipe those -blam!-s of the galaxy.

2)The flood that fought the Humans weren't even powerful as the latter ones.Because:
-There wasn't any gravemind yet
-The Forerunners enocuntered "higher forms" in other words far more powerful ones.

Had the Flood not been attacking simultaneously Humanity may have been able to comletely defeat the Forerunner. However, if the Flood had not been attacking then Humanity would not have been invading Forerunner space and there may not have been a war. But from with the new light that Cryptum shines on Forerunner mentality I'm sure they would have eventually found a reason.


Complete speculation.It's said that Human defenses were a little less advanced then the Forerunner ones,if they were more powerful then why were their defenses weaker?
20 meter large war sphinxes were destroying and throwing Human starships around like dolls.Ground troops beating space forces,hilarious.

But again the Human had lucky that they had defenses around the indestructible precursor artifacts and they were on the defense.Just like in the medieval when it was too difficult to conquer a fortress.

The Humans were far larger -blam!-s then the Forerunners.Why didn't they asked the Forerunners for help even if they were rivals,instead of that they just attacked the runners to steal their planets because of their lack of resources.Didact is right Humans in that time were selfish -blam!-s.

And from the man himself Greg Bear:

One hundred thousand years ago, the galaxy was populated by a great variety of beings.
But one species-eons beyond all the others in both technology and knowledge-achieved dominance.



Proves the Forerunners were the strongest and most advanced of the galaxy before the precursors.

The Forerunners were sophisticated above all other empires and powerful almost beyond measure.


More evidence


The Humans certainly weren't more powerful then Forerunners.





First off the didact himself states that the humans were on the same technological level as the forerunners though they were a more aggressive race. Secoundly, the didact also states that the humans were fighting a 2 sided war which made them desperate and cruel.

Waves of flood refugee's were moving into forerunner space away from infected systems. becuase of this they attacked forerunner worlds which stated a war the forerunners had long seen coming due to rising tensions between the two races.
the didact began to fight a weakened human empire with only 1/3 of total population, even then the human managed to fight toe to toe with the forerunners for about a century until they were finally cornered and defeated. Again, didact notes that even with 1/3 a population they fought gallantly and he himself wonders what the outcome would have been had it been the full population.


So i suggest you read that chapter again, now on to the flood.


Primitive or not the flood back then was still deadly as it is now. and nowhere in the book does it state anything about there not being a gravemind, considering how the flood took over 15 systems i highly doubt there wasn't one. On page 342 of cryptum didact states that how they must hurry and deal with the flood before they " acquire a new master" to me that sounds like a gravemind.

The flood caught the forerunners by surprise by attacking a world on the edge of the galaxy. the forerunner government kept the flood threat a secret from the public ignorantly for 300 years becuase this would make ill of the mantle they followed.
All becuase the only reason the humans attacke in the first place was becuase of the flood and the forerunneres de-evolved them for that. And with 3 million worlds they couldn't spare a few systems? and you call the humans selfish?


and you do know thoses quotes are from the forerunner prespective right? so ofcourse they are going to say they are the best, just like every country today claims to be the best. the reality of it is the humans were on the same level as the forerunners.

  • 03.05.2011 2:51 PM PDT

I completely agree with you on the book being from a Forerunner perspective, If Ancient Humanity were allowed to concentrate their entire power on the Forerunner then I think the war would have turned out quite different. Did humanity use any precursor weapons that werent on Charum Hakkor? I didn't catch it in the book.

  • 03.05.2011 3:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: KillerKalaj212
I completely agree with you on the book being from a Forerunner perspective, If Ancient Humanity were allowed to concentrate their entire power on the Forerunner then I think the war would have turned out quite different. Did humanity use any precursor weapons that werent on Charum Hakkor? I didn't catch it in the book.


I don't think they directly used precursor weapons, but i do know they had orbital installations on the "bridges so to speak" above the planet that were unbreakable.

  • 03.05.2011 3:27 PM PDT

I've just started reading Cryptum for the first time and I'll just say that the writing is fantastic, much better than anything Nylund has done. I'm finding the "Ancient Humanity" malarkey incredibly interesting too, and with any luck by the time I'm finished I'll be back into the Halo universe like I once was.

  • 03.05.2011 3:39 PM PDT

I just did some skimming through, on their last stand at Charum Hakkor, the Humans started using Precursor weapons to annihilate the Didacts fleet command. Its pretty funny that the Humans were such worthy adversary to the Forerunner even with most of their military gone from using it to fight the Flood at the same time.

  • 03.05.2011 3:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: KillerKalaj212
I just did some skimming through, on their last stand at Charum Hakkor, the Humans started using Precursor weapons to annihilate the Didacts fleet command. Its pretty funny that the Humans were such worthy adversary to the Forerunner even with most of their military gone from using it to fight the Flood at the same time.


It was never said that they used precursor weapons, only that they built on top of and around precursor structures.

  • 03.05.2011 4:03 PM PDT

Old School

Well thats the question isnt it.

In my eyes, the fact that humans managed to find a cure for the flood infection and that the forunners did not kind of implies that the mantle was destined for humanity.


the flood is/was a test

[Edited on 03.05.2011 8:03 PM PST]

  • 03.05.2011 8:02 PM PDT

Find me one line in Halo Cryptum that explicitly says they didn't fight a Gravemind, or higher forms. Can you?

I'll wait, because you can't.

The Flood was traveling world to world, which is far past the Feral Stage and into the Coordinated, which requires a higher intelligence guiding them. Feral creatures can't pull off interplanetary invasions, and pull back interplanetary forces in a retreat.

Humanity technology was on par with the Forerunner, as the Didact even said that the Forerunner had no answer for many of the Humans weapons.

Humanity fought the Flood (Coordinated Stage) with their military at first, but finally came upon a solution. You couldn't win with ships and guns, so they infected a full third of their own people and planets with a pathogen. The Flood literally choked to death on the Humans, and then they attacked what was left and drove it out of the galaxy.

At the same time, they were in a war with the Forerunner for expanding into Forerunner space for resources. At the same time, the Forerunner bribed their allies the Prophets to withdraw their resources.

It was these three facts combined that dropped Humanity in the war. Even when they were down to one planet, Humanity held out for years against the entire might of the Forerunner Empire.

[Edited on 03.05.2011 10:21 PM PST]

  • 03.05.2011 8:54 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Humans = Innovative
Elites = Imitative
We've already established humans are better than Elites.

  • 03.05.2011 9:20 PM PDT

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