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This topic has moved here: Subject: how the forerunners beat the precursors (explaination)
  • Subject: how the forerunners beat the precursors (explaination)
Subject: how the forerunners beat the precursors (explaination)
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Since cryptum has been out i have seen people wondering how the forerunners could have beat the precursors so im here to explain.

Assuming that we have all read cryptum; we know that the precursors made the forerunners and most likley humans. Based off this text by the captive "Those your kind rose up against and so ruthlessly destroyed", i state with my explaination.


They created the forerunners and humans for whatever reason (i am assuming the forerunners to build) and might have used them as a slave race. The forerunners had enough and using the precurosors own tech on their makers, destroyed them.


Yes you could knock this of as a "theory", but in plain terms the forerunners just used precursor tech on precursors and thats that. just like and rebel faction now or in our own history.

  • 03.05.2011 3:16 PM PDT
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I thought the same thing as well since I can't really see a way for an inferior race to beat a superior race without using their own technology against them.

[Edited on 03.05.2011 3:31 PM PST]

  • 03.05.2011 3:31 PM PDT

The Forerunners used neural weaponry to destroy the precursors, The same thing the Halo array uses.

  • 03.05.2011 3:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: KillerKalaj212
The Forerunners used neural weaponry to destroy the precursors, The same thing the Halo array uses.

Was that actually in the book or are you just saying that? From what I remember in the book the Forerunners weren't even aware they used to be at war with the Precursors so for you to be so exact with the means that they used to defeat them is kind of astonishing.

  • 03.05.2011 3:35 PM PDT
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My theory is....

Humans dominated the universe.

Precursors come along and destroy us, devolve us.

Forerunners come along.

They help us back up to beat the Precursors.

humans fight Forerunners.

Forerunners devolve humans.

..miore or less in a nutshell.

  • 03.05.2011 3:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Potomo

Posted by: KillerKalaj212
The Forerunners used neural weaponry to destroy the precursors, The same thing the Halo array uses.

Was that actually in the book or are you just saying that? From what I remember in the book the Forerunners weren't even aware they used to be at war with the Precursors so for you to be so exact with the means that they used to defeat them is kind of astonishing.


He is just saying that as that is the only "alien" way to destroy precursor tech.


Posted by: Murcielago00
My theory is....

Humans dominated the universe.

Precursors come along and destroy us, devolve us.

Forerunners come along.

They help us back up to beat the Precursors.

humans fight Forerunners.

Forerunners devolve humans.

..miore or less in a nutshell.


wouldn't make sense seeing how the precursors made the forerunners and the forerunners suspect they are related to humans

[Edited on 03.05.2011 3:39 PM PST]

  • 03.05.2011 3:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Potomo

Posted by: KillerKalaj212
The Forerunners used neural weaponry to destroy the precursors, The same thing the Halo array uses.

Was that actually in the book or are you just saying that? From what I remember in the book the Forerunners weren't even aware they used to be at war with the Precursors so for you to be so exact with the means that they used to defeat them is kind of astonishing.


He is just saying that as that is the only "alien" way to destroy precursor tech.

Ahh I see. I guess that makes sense since the Halo arrays were the only things able to destroy Precursor structures.

[Edited on 03.05.2011 3:40 PM PST]

  • 03.05.2011 3:39 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Potomo
Posted by: KillerKalaj212
The Forerunners used neural weaponry to destroy the precursors, The same thing the Halo array uses.

Was that actually in the book or are you just saying that? From what I remember in the book the Forerunners weren't even aware they used to be at war with the Precursors so for you to be so exact with the means that they used to defeat them is kind of astonishing.


No, he's correct, to an extent. The Halo Array is a neurological weapon, when Mendicant Bias test fired an Installation by Charum Hakkor he set the Prisoner free because the blast destroyed the Precursor technology that had imprisoned him.

That's why we never see any Precursor artefacts, they were all destroyed when Halo was activated because they're based on neural physics (inanimate matter and thought would be linked so artefacts can't be harmed by conventional damage).

  • 03.05.2011 3:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: grey101

wouldn't make sense seeing how the precursors made the forerunners and the forerunners suspect they are related to humans


makes perfect sense (to moi). THere has been nothing to suggest otherwise. Until this series, we didn't know HUmans had once been on par with Forerunners and warred over control over the galaxy.

Suggested that Humans had some knowledge of fighting the Flood way back when the Precursors were around. Who's to say we weren't a match for them either?

More secrets revealed in the next 2 books, this is only the 1st of the Trilogy and we found out Humans fought Forerunners, lost, devolved, became their 'pets', nd that we had fought the Flood and that the Precursos were wiped out by Forerunners.

Lots of secrets in just the first of three....

  • 03.05.2011 3:43 PM PDT

When they tested the Halo array near Charum Hakkor, it shattered every Precursor construct on the planet, thats what freed the Prisoner, The Halo Array destroys using Neural impulses. Thats why the Precursor artifacts were invincible to normal weaponry, they had a higher understanding of materials.

  • 03.05.2011 4:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Potomo
Posted by: KillerKalaj212
The Forerunners used neural weaponry to destroy the precursors, The same thing the Halo array uses.

Was that actually in the book or are you just saying that? From what I remember in the book the Forerunners weren't even aware they used to be at war with the Precursors so for you to be so exact with the means that they used to defeat them is kind of astonishing.



That's why we never see any Precursor artefacts, they were all destroyed when Halo was activated because they're based on neural physics (inanimate matter and thought would be linked so artefacts can't be harmed by conventional damage).


But that is when it is fired at a certain calabration right? Becuase i remember the didact stating how they must have changed the firing of the halo.

  • 03.05.2011 4:06 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: grey101
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Potomo
Posted by: KillerKalaj212
The Forerunners used neural weaponry to destroy the precursors, The same thing the Halo array uses.

Was that actually in the book or are you just saying that? From what I remember in the book the Forerunners weren't even aware they used to be at war with the Precursors so for you to be so exact with the means that they used to defeat them is kind of astonishing.



That's why we never see any Precursor artefacts, they were all destroyed when Halo was activated because they're based on neural physics (inanimate matter and thought would be linked so artefacts can't be harmed by conventional damage).


But that is when it is fired at a certain calabration right? Becuase i remember the didact stating how they must have changed the firing of the halo.


Bias fired the Ring on its lowest setting. Imagine what it's highest setting could do...

Oh yeah, wipe out all life in the galaxy with a simultaneous pulse from the other 6 Installations.

What is odd is that the Precursor wasn't harmed by Halo, I guess that supports the Gravemind theory.

  • 03.05.2011 4:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I thought that was due to the shielding around him at that time.

  • 03.05.2011 4:13 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: grey101
I thought that was due to the shielding around him at that time.


How would that protect him? The only area Halo doesn't affect is slipspace.

  • 03.05.2011 4:19 PM PDT

Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: grey101
I thought that was due to the shielding around him at that time.


How would that protect him? The only area Halo doesn't affect is slipspace.


I'm still not convinced by that, it seems a bit dodgy. Like the Forerunners suddenly being alive and just away from the keyboard of the galaxy. Where is the source?

  • 03.05.2011 4:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Wolverfrog
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: grey101
I thought that was due to the shielding around him at that time.


How would that protect him? The only area Halo doesn't affect is slipspace.


I'm still not convinced by that, it seems a bit dodgy. Like the Forerunners suddenly being alive and just away from the keyboard of the galaxy. Where is the source?


I am confused with that also. the Encyclopedia says they left the galaxy on one page then on another says they left the orion arm.

becuase of this most people say they left the galaxy, i say the left the arm seeing how this fits with their tech and that was thier birth location.

  • 03.05.2011 4:30 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Wolverfrog
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: grey101
I thought that was due to the shielding around him at that time.


How would that protect him? The only area Halo doesn't affect is slipspace.


I'm still not convinced by that, it seems a bit dodgy. Like the Forerunners suddenly being alive and just away from the keyboard of the galaxy. Where is the source?


Ghosts of Onyx. The Micro Dyson Sphere is encased in a slipspace bubble, rendering it unaffected by Halo's firing.

  • 03.05.2011 4:31 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: ajw34307
No, he's correct, to an extent. The Halo Array is a neurological weapon, when Mendicant Bias test fired an Installation by Charum Hakkor he set the Prisoner free because the blast destroyed the Precursor technology that had imprisoned him.

That's why we never see any Precursor artefacts, they were all destroyed when Halo was activated because they're based on neural physics (inanimate matter and thought would be linked so artefacts can't be harmed by conventional damage).
I agree with your line of reasoning that the Precursor tech must involve some sort of neurological symbiosis with inanimate matter (which raises quite a few questions...is their technology alive?) But I still don't see why it would be impervious to all other weapons if that was the case. I'm going to use a poor example here but bear with me. Titanium can be destroyed by ballistics, heat, etc. and an organic neural network (of any type) would be just as vulnerable as the human brain is to damage. Why, then, would the fusion of the two create something only the Halo effect (which only destroys neurons) could damage, and why would the destruction of only the organic (neurologically based) aspect bring down the whole structure?

  • 03.05.2011 4:49 PM PDT

Not sure yet, no one knows how exactly the Neuro materials work, but if you want evidence of the strength of Precursor ships, Miners discover them being recycled through tectonic plates and re-emerging over and over. so they cant be destroyed by the massive forces of plate tectonics.

  • 03.05.2011 4:54 PM PDT


Posted by: Potomo

Posted by: KillerKalaj212
The Forerunners used neural weaponry to destroy the precursors, The same thing the Halo array uses.

Was that actually in the book or are you just saying that? From what I remember in the book the Forerunners weren't even aware they used to be at war with the Precursors so for you to be so exact with the means that they used to defeat them is kind of astonishing.


Its because its the only kind of weaponry that can do any damage at all to the Precursor's technology. Its the only thing that makes sense.

  • 03.05.2011 5:02 PM PDT


Posted by: dibbs089
Posted by: ajw34307
No, he's correct, to an extent. The Halo Array is a neurological weapon, when Mendicant Bias test fired an Installation by Charum Hakkor he set the Prisoner free because the blast destroyed the Precursor technology that had imprisoned him.

That's why we never see any Precursor artefacts, they were all destroyed when Halo was activated because they're based on neural physics (inanimate matter and thought would be linked so artefacts can't be harmed by conventional damage).
I agree with your line of reasoning that the Precursor tech must involve some sort of neurological symbiosis with inanimate matter (which raises quite a few questions...is their technology alive?) But I still don't see why it would be impervious to all other weapons if that was the case. I'm going to use a poor example here but bear with me. Titanium can be destroyed by ballistics, heat, etc. and an organic neural network (of any type) would be just as vulnerable as the human brain is to damage. Why, then, would the fusion of the two create something only the Halo effect (which only destroys neurons) could damage, and why would the destruction of only the organic (neurologically based) aspect bring down the whole structure?


Its not that simple. The Precursors and the universe were literally one in the same, they believed the universe itself lived on a higher plane of reality. They tapped into that and essentially ascended to a kind of godhood. Neural Physics operates on that concept of universal thought and life being linked.

Halo's not a simple mind-melter, its a soul killer, it destroys consciousness, the fabric of the living universe itself. Its probably why the Forerunners--or Didact--found it so repulsive.

[Edited on 03.05.2011 5:08 PM PST]

  • 03.05.2011 5:08 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: dibbs089
Posted by: ajw34307
No, he's correct, to an extent. The Halo Array is a neurological weapon, when Mendicant Bias test fired an Installation by Charum Hakkor he set the Prisoner free because the blast destroyed the Precursor technology that had imprisoned him.

That's why we never see any Precursor artefacts, they were all destroyed when Halo was activated because they're based on neural physics (inanimate matter and thought would be linked so artefacts can't be harmed by conventional damage).
I agree with your line of reasoning that the Precursor tech must involve some sort of neurological symbiosis with inanimate matter (which raises quite a few questions...is their technology alive?) But I still don't see why it would be impervious to all other weapons if that was the case. I'm going to use a poor example here but bear with me. Titanium can be destroyed by ballistics, heat, etc. and an organic neural network (of any type) would be just as vulnerable as the human brain is to damage. Why, then, would the fusion of the two create something only the Halo effect (which only destroys neurons) could damage, and why would the destruction of only the organic (neurologically based) aspect bring down the whole structure?


Truthfully, I'm not the person to ask for that particular question. I'm no astrophysicist, my knowledge on this matter is strictly restricted to what the Halo novels have told me.

  • 03.05.2011 5:12 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Its not that simple. The Precursors and the universe were literally one in the same, they believed the universe itself lived on a higher plane of reality. They tapped into that and essentially ascended to a kind of godhood. Neural Physics operates on that concept of universal thought and life being linked.
Where are you getting that information from?

Halo's not a simple mind-melter, its a soul killer, it destroys consciousness, the fabric of the living universe itself. Its probably why the Forerunners--or Didact--found it so repulsive.I'm fairly certain the Encyclopedia says the Halo effect targets neural synapses. While this would fit your definition of a "soul killer" in the sense that your consciousness, thoughts, memories (essentially you); is erased, that is achieved through a physical process. Taking a bullet to your temple would achieve the same end result though not on a galactic scale.

  • 03.05.2011 5:19 PM PDT


Posted by: dibbs089
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Its not that simple. The Precursors and the universe were literally one in the same, they believed the universe itself lived on a higher plane of reality. They tapped into that and essentially ascended to a kind of godhood. Neural Physics operates on that concept of universal thought and life being linked.
Where are you getting that information from?

Halo's not a simple mind-melter, its a soul killer, it destroys consciousness, the fabric of the living universe itself. Its probably why the Forerunners--or Didact--found it so repulsive.I'm fairly certain the Encyclopedia says the Halo effect targets neural synapses. While this would fit your definition of a "soul killer" in the sense that your consciousness, thoughts, memories (essentially you); is erased, that is achieved through a physical process. Taking a bullet to your temple would achieve the same end result though not on a galactic scale.


I get that info from Cryptum. Didact himself states that the Precursors felt the Mantle extended to the entire universe as well. "The universe lives, but not as we do."

And by soul killer, I mean it erases your being completely. Philosophically, a bullet wouldn't do that. The Gravemind himself speaks of "garunteed perpetual existence" after death in Human Weakness, indicating the afterlife does indeed exist in Halo.

Taking what Neural Physics means, and the effect of total destruction the Halo Effect has on both creatures and Precursor structures, I simply connected the dots.

The Forerunners themselves believed in some form of the afterlife, some form of higher being after death, though they never explicitly called it that (think: durances). They'd naturally be apalled at a weapon that denied even "life after death," or whatever they may have called it.

Think: the Forerunner's Great Journey, the Precursors' unity with life and the universe, their immortality, the Gravemind's belief in the afterlife (the evident fact he WAS a Precursor), the Assembly (angels on Humanity's shoulders?), Forerunner Durances and the Didact's exile, all of them indicate something is going on in the background of the Halo universe that is more then the mere physical squabbles of humans and aliens and AIs.

  • 03.05.2011 6:34 PM PDT

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Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I get that info from Cryptum. Didact himself states that the Precursors felt the Mantle extended to the entire universe as well. "The universe lives, but not as we do."

Did he not just mean that the Precursor wanted to extend the Mantle over all lifeforms in existence, rather than just this Galaxy?

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
The Gravemind himself speaks of "garunteed perpetual existence" after death in Human Weakness, indicating the afterlife does indeed exist in Halo.

There were words preceding that statement though. Those words were "Even if...". It was a proposition that regardless of whether there was an afterlife or not, it would hardly matter how or why death in this world occurred, therefore trying to justify the Floods actions. The fact that he uses the words "Even if there is guaranteed perpetual existence afterwards" suggests that not even the Gravemind knows what happens after death. That is what I got from it anyway.

  • 03.05.2011 9:42 PM PDT