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This topic has moved here: Subject: Combat Knifes Piercing Mjolnir, Knives in Halo
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Subject: Combat Knifes Piercing Mjolnir, Knives in Halo

This is something I really don't understand, not because it is a fallacy just because I am confused.

Knifes are used quite often to kill Elites, but shouldn't the shielding systems of elites block the knives?

John Forge kills the arbiter with his knife, it is arguable that the times he shoots him with his rifle and pistol put his shields down, but then the arbiter must have really old shields cause there was a big gap in between those actions.

Fred kills an elite with a knife, again, no mention of shields.

But in halo when you punch, you have to first punch through the shields. I remember in First Strike a brute has to beat through MC's shields before it can start beating him.

So Why can a combat knife bypass shields, but a fist cannot?

In reach when you assassinate should the shields not protect the elite from being stabbed?

And on a second lighter note, since I know mp is not cannon, do you think a combat knife should even be able to pierce Mjolnir armor, if so what is the point of even wearing it? Apparently it blocks pistol shots. If it's strong enough to block pistol shots and some rifle bullets shouldn't it be immune to being stabbed through by a knife?

I mean even Kevlar vests cops wear are pretty much stab proof...

  • 03.06.2011 4:47 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Well, they never actually hit the armor. They always stab the gaps were only the jumpsuit protects them (with the exception of the Energy Dagger to head assassination)

  • 03.06.2011 4:49 PM PDT

what about the normal knife straight down on the top of the head assassination?

  • 03.06.2011 4:51 PM PDT

I like to play Devil's Advocate

Boo! It's a game

  • 03.06.2011 4:52 PM PDT

When you preform a regular assassination you only need one hit to kill, why can't a knife do the same?

  • 03.06.2011 4:53 PM PDT

Posted by: the n00b pwner
When you preform a regular assassination you only need one hit to kill, why can't a knife do the same?


regular assassination is obviously not cannon.
According to that logic an odst can walk up behind a brute and kill it with one chop.

  • 03.06.2011 4:54 PM PDT

If I were to randomly guess I'd say this:

There are a a number of factors that must be fulfilled in order for a spartans shields to activate and react.

One of them I'd guess is a minimum about of force and velocity. A bullet moves considerably faster than a person stabbing does, meaning that a bullet will activate the shields where a knife will not. Thsi is to avoid having the shields activate when every little insignificant thing tries to touch the spartan, from a fly landing on their armor to a rock.


This does not explain why melee attacks hit their armor, but idk what else to tell you besides gameplay does not equal canon.

[Edited on 03.06.2011 4:55 PM PST]

  • 03.06.2011 4:54 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: Wazooty
If I were to randomly guess I'd say this:

There are a a number of factors that must be fulfilled in order for a spartans shields to activate and react.

One of them I'd guess is a minimum about of force and velocity. A bullet moves considerably faster than a person stabbing does, meaning that a bullet will activate the shields where a knife will not. Thsi is to avoid having the shields activate when every little insignificant thing tries to touch the spartan, from a fly landing on their armor to a rock.


This does not explain why melee attacks hit their armor, but idk what else to tell you besides gameplay does not equal canon.


What he/she says is truth. I remember on Ghosts of Onyx how things like bullets and rockets activated the Sentinels shields, but rocks wouldn't.

  • 03.06.2011 5:00 PM PDT

Ghosts on Onyx was weird though.
I never understood why MC could kill sentinels on Halo with his guns, but they couldn't kill them on Onyx with the same guns.

  • 03.06.2011 5:02 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: xZcNx MarcWagz
Ghosts on Onyx was weird though.
I never understood why MC could kill sentinels on Halo with his guns, but they couldn't kill them on Onyx with the same guns.


Gameplay purposes obviously.

Besides The Onyx variant is a tougher variant apparently.

[Edited on 03.06.2011 5:10 PM PST]

  • 03.06.2011 5:04 PM PDT

that makes no sense though.

How canonically could MC have escaped Halo if he was unable to destroy any sentinels?

He would have died when GS ordered those sentinels to attack him.

  • 03.06.2011 5:06 PM PDT

.

"Happiness is like glass, you might not always notice it but if you change your view and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light."

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: xZcNx MarcWagz
Ghosts on Onyx was weird though.
I never understood why MC could kill sentinels on Halo with his guns, but they couldn't kill them on Onyx with the same guns.


Gameplay purposes obviously.
At first I thought he was referring to the game but hes talking about the books.

  • 03.06.2011 5:08 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Yeah, well, they also couldn't destroy the Sentinels with their guns because they had a stronger shield.

The Onyx Sentinel is infamous to be the most dangerous classification of any known Sentinel, is extremely versatile, and is a powerful combatant on both the ground and in space. One of their primary advantages, is a gold-colored Energy Shield that is entirely resistant to all projectiles, even the rockets of the SPNKr Launcher and LOTUS Mine detonations; however, the motion sensors that activate the shield are duped by slow moving objects, such as a rock, which was used to destroy one Sentinel on Onyx.

  • 03.06.2011 5:12 PM PDT

that makes more sense.

thread offtopic though...

Main issue is why knifes seem to make elite shields do nothing, but punching them takes away their shields.

  • 03.06.2011 5:22 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: xZcNx MarcWagz
Knifes are used quite often to kill Elites, but shouldn't the shielding systems of elites block the knives?

The way I see it is this; We already know a Spartan has enough strength to pop shields with a melee attack. When using a knife the force is concentrated into a smaller area and when the shields pop the momentum carries the knife onwards and inwards. Basically a knife attack is like a punch with a blade attached.

John Forge kills the arbiter with his knife, it is arguable that the times he shoots him with his rifle and pistol put his shields down, but then the arbiter must have really old shields cause there was a big gap in between those actions.
As far as I can tell Rippa's armour did not have shields at all. If it did then it could be argued they were drop by getting shot.

Fred kills an elite with a knife, again, no mention of shields.

But in halo when you punch, you have to first punch through the shields. I remember in First Strike a brute has to beat through MC's shields before it can start beating him.

So Why can a combat knife bypass shields, but a fist cannot?

In reach when you assassinate should the shields not protect the elite from being stabbed?

See my first point.

And on a second lighter note, since I know mp is not cannon, do you think a combat knife should even be able to pierce Mjolnir armor, if so what is the point of even wearing it? Apparently it blocks pistol shots. If it's strong enough to block pistol shots and some rifle bullets shouldn't it be immune to being stabbed through by a knife?

I mean even Kevlar vests cops wear are pretty much stab proof...

Spartans have enough strength to push a knife through the under armour suit where the gel layer is not covered.

  • 03.06.2011 5:46 PM PDT

MJB

take into consideration that it's not just any human thrusting that knife not even an ODST, it's and augmented Spartan Super soldier.
plus just like how an energy sword is able to cut through the shields and pass straight through a spartan, its a matter of the laws of pressure
Pressure = Force over area
a knife has much less surface area than a fist, therefore its a much greater pressure translated through to the shields

also to address you concern about the ability of a knife to stab through MJOLNIR armor,
UNSC combat knifes of the 26th century are likely made of an advanced alloy that can stay extremely sharp for a long time and with enough force behind it (augmented spartan soldier) it can stab through just about any infantry armor, hell a spartan could likely jam a combat knife through the hood of a warthog.
and plus if you pay attention to the assassination animations, they never stab the hard armor, they always stab the black gel layer that isn't covered in hard armor.

[Edited on 03.06.2011 6:12 PM PST]

  • 03.06.2011 6:05 PM PDT

Knifes are made with a much stronger material.

  • 03.06.2011 6:07 PM PDT

Think before you post

Nope. The shields are always on. The Spartans can only control the strength of the shields. Like when John minimizes the shields around his hands and feet when he grips a weapon or was walking over a minefield.
Posted by: Wazooty
If I were to randomly guess I'd say this:

There are a a number of factors that must be fulfilled in order for a spartans shields to activate and react.

One of them I'd guess is a minimum about of force and velocity. A bullet moves considerably faster than a person stabbing does, meaning that a bullet will activate the shields where a knife will not. Thsi is to avoid having the shields activate when every little insignificant thing tries to touch the spartan, from a fly landing on their armor to a rock.


This does not explain why melee attacks hit their armor, but idk what else to tell you besides gameplay does not equal canon.

  • 03.06.2011 6:10 PM PDT

MJB

John Forge kills the arbiter with his knife, it is arguable that the times he shoots him with his rifle and pistol put his shields down, but then the arbiter must have really old shields cause there was a big gap in between those actions.[/quote]
[quote[As far as I can tell Rippa's armour did not have shields at all. If it did then it could be argued they were drop by getting shot.


don't forget the force of being tackled to the ground
plus its possible that Ripa Morramee's Arbiter Armor had to have the shields dissengaged in order to power the suits active camouflage.

  • 03.06.2011 6:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: xZcNx MarcWagz
Posted by: the n00b pwner
When you preform a regular assassination you only need one hit to kill, why can't a knife do the same?


regular assassination is obviously not cannon.
According to that logic an odst can walk up behind a brute and kill it with one chop.


That is something I have always thought about. In ODST as any of the characters you are almost as strong as you were when you were the Master Chief. You can still flip vehicles, jump almost as high, kill people with very few (often just one) melee attacks, and everything around you moves just as slowly as it does when you are the Master Chief who, as a Spartan II, is meant to have this super fast brain thing that sees things slower than they are.

  • 03.06.2011 11:15 PM PDT

Will McLaughlan

Take note that The Arbiter's armor is over 200 years old.

  • 03.06.2011 11:17 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: xZcNx MarcWagz
Posted by: the n00b pwner
When you preform a regular assassination you only need one hit to kill, why can't a knife do the same?


regular assassination is obviously not cannon.
According to that logic an odst can walk up behind a brute and kill it with one chop.


Steroids man, steroids. In the future, steroids give you so much strength that you can break spines with just one chop/punch.

Actually....Screw steroids! It must be that Moa meat, that thing does wonders to men and women alike.

[Edited on 03.06.2011 11:32 PM PST]

  • 03.06.2011 11:29 PM PDT

You should re read what I wrote. It is completely impossible for the shield to always be active. There HAS to be a minimum amount of force required for the shields to activate, otherwise everything from a fly to someone putting a hand on their shoulder, to bumping into a wall would cause them to flare up.

Think about for 2 seconds please.

Posted by: Grizzled Ancient
Nope. The shields are always on. The Spartans can only control the strength of the shields. Like when John minimizes the shields around his hands and feet when he grips a weapon or was walking over a minefield.
Posted by: Wazooty
If I were to randomly guess I'd say this:

There are a a number of factors that must be fulfilled in order for a spartans shields to activate and react.

One of them I'd guess is a minimum about of force and velocity. A bullet moves considerably faster than a person stabbing does, meaning that a bullet will activate the shields where a knife will not. Thsi is to avoid having the shields activate when every little insignificant thing tries to touch the spartan, from a fly landing on their armor to a rock.


This does not explain why melee attacks hit their armor, but idk what else to tell you besides gameplay does not equal canon.

  • 03.06.2011 11:39 PM PDT

*scratches nuts*

Posted by: Wazooty
You should re read what I wrote. It is completely impossible for the shield to always be active. There HAS to be a minimum amount of force required for the shields to activate, otherwise everything from a fly to someone putting a hand on their shoulder, to bumping into a wall would cause them to flare up.

Think about for 2 seconds please.
Read the Fall of Reach. Spartan shields are always up but they can be lowered/deactivated over certain body parts when necessary.

  • 03.07.2011 12:09 AM PDT

Posted by: General Noobus
Posted by: Wazooty
You should re read what I wrote. It is completely impossible for the shield to always be active. There HAS to be a minimum amount of force required for the shields to activate, otherwise everything from a fly to someone putting a hand on their shoulder, to bumping into a wall would cause them to flare up.

Think about for 2 seconds please.
Read the Fall of Reach. Spartan shields are always up but they can be lowered/deactivated over certain body parts when necessary.


You cant really expect Nylund thought of every single little physics problem represented by such a thing when it happened can you?

  • 03.07.2011 12:21 AM PDT

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