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  • Subject: Were there any canon changes in Reach that you liked?
Subject: Were there any canon changes in Reach that you liked?

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: MegaMuffin16
I think changing the dates could have somewhat slipped it into canon. They could have easily had this game take place over the course of 3 days.
August 28: Noble Actual, Winter Contingency, Sword Base, Nightfall
August 29: Tip of the Spear, Long Night of Solace, Exodus, New Alexandria
August 30: The Package, The Pillar of Autumn, Lone Wolf
(Time zones from August 29-August 30 could still argue the battle was lost in one day) Granted, that doesn't even come close to fixing all the canon breaks, but at least that would cover the issue of the dates.

If only.

  • 03.11.2011 7:17 AM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
People can argue up and down the TFOR is ruined because of Halo Reach. Reality is it is not ruined, and both 343 and Bungie have pointed out the book and game do connect. (I've linked a 343 video talking about the space battle a few times in other threads.)

Again, not the point. Established canon was contradicted. It was not just some minor retcon, either.

  • 03.11.2011 7:18 AM PDT


Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
People can argue up and down the TFOR is ruined because of Halo Reach. Reality is it is not ruined, and both 343 and Bungie have pointed out the book and game do connect. (I've linked a 343 video talking about the space battle a few times in other threads.)

Again, not the point. Established canon was contradicted. It was not just some minor retcon, either.


Or, it wasn't majorly contradicted and we simply saw another viewpoint of the same battle?

Maybe Keyes was called back and arrived late 29th/early 30th as the second, massive, fleet arrived.

The fact is, both 343 and Bungie have labeled it canon, and both say it fits. They have the Halo Story Bible and thus have FAR more information then we do concerning it...

  • 03.11.2011 7:21 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
People can argue up and down the TFOR is ruined because of Halo Reach. Reality is it is not ruined, and both 343 and Bungie have pointed out the book and game do connect. (I've linked a 343 video talking about the space battle a few times in other threads.)

Again, not the point. Established canon was contradicted. It was not just some minor retcon, either.


Or, it wasn't majorly contradicted and we simply saw another viewpoint of the same battle?

Maybe Keyes was called back and arrived late 29th/early 30th as the second, massive, fleet arrived.

The fact is, both 343 and Bungie have labeled it canon, and both say it fits. They have the Halo Story Bible and thus have FAR more information then we do concerning it...

Bungie haz right, anyway.
BDF squad, won another fight.

  • 03.11.2011 7:28 AM PDT

Dark Neptune, a young amateur astronomer whose gaming life is no different from other teenagers of his age, though he controls it more strictly then others.

Captain Keezz froze my brain and made my heart skipped a beat.

  • 03.11.2011 7:31 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
People can argue up and down the TFOR is ruined because of Halo Reach. Reality is it is not ruined, and both 343 and Bungie have pointed out the book and game do connect. (I've linked a 343 video talking about the space battle a few times in other threads.)

Again, not the point. Established canon was contradicted. It was not just some minor retcon, either.


Or, it wasn't majorly contradicted and we simply saw another viewpoint of the same battle?

Maybe Keyes was called back and arrived late 29th/early 30th as the second, massive, fleet arrived.

The fact is, both 343 and Bungie have labeled it canon, and both say it fits. They have the Halo Story Bible and thus have FAR more information then we do concerning it...


The PoA is said to be in two places at once.

By the time "Pillar of Autumn" happens in Halo Reach, it's on it's way to Halo in the novel.

The Story Bible CANNOT remedy that. Unless the UNSC had cloned Keyes, and had two Pillar of Autumns.

  • 03.11.2011 7:47 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
People can argue up and down the TFOR is ruined because of Halo Reach. Reality is it is not ruined, and both 343 and Bungie have pointed out the book and game do connect. (I've linked a 343 video talking about the space battle a few times in other threads.)

Again, not the point. Established canon was contradicted. It was not just some minor retcon, either.


Or, it wasn't majorly contradicted and we simply saw another viewpoint of the same battle?

Maybe Keyes was called back and arrived late 29th/early 30th as the second, massive, fleet arrived.

The fact is, both 343 and Bungie have labeled it canon, and both say it fits. They have the Halo Story Bible and thus have FAR more information then we do concerning it...


The PoA is said to be in two places at once.

By the time "Pillar of Autumn" happens in Halo Reach, it's on it's way to Halo in the novel.

The Story Bible CANNOT remedy that. Unless the UNSC had cloned Keyes, and had two Pillar of Autumns.



Or, the PoA left Reach a little later then before. What's the issue?

It sounds like you are fine and dandy with expanding lore and universe, until they touch the 'trilogy' of books and change a few details.

Or change something and you don't like the change.

  • 03.11.2011 7:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: TheGreenAlloy

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
People can argue up and down the TFOR is ruined because of Halo Reach. Reality is it is not ruined, and both 343 and Bungie have pointed out the book and game do connect. (I've linked a 343 video talking about the space battle a few times in other threads.)

Again, not the point. Established canon was contradicted. It was not just some minor retcon, either.


Or, it wasn't majorly contradicted and we simply saw another viewpoint of the same battle?

Maybe Keyes was called back and arrived late 29th/early 30th as the second, massive, fleet arrived.

The fact is, both 343 and Bungie have labeled it canon, and both say it fits. They have the Halo Story Bible and thus have FAR more information then we do concerning it...


The PoA is said to be in two places at once.

By the time "Pillar of Autumn" happens in Halo Reach, it's on it's way to Halo in the novel.

The Story Bible CANNOT remedy that. Unless the UNSC had cloned Keyes, and had two Pillar of Autumns.



Or, the PoA left Reach a little later then before. What's the issue?

It sounds like you are fine and dandy with expanding lore and universe, until they touch the 'trilogy' of books and change a few details.

Or change something and you don't like the change.


August 30th:

0647 Hours: The Pillar of Autumn attempts to retreat from the system, but remains there for unknown reasons and heads for a drydock at the Aszod ship breaking yards on Reach, possibly. (I personally don't see any other choice)

1652 hours: The remainder of Noble Team head to the Aszod ship breaking yards to deliver a fragment of Cortana, which holds important navigation data, to the Pillar of Autumn. SPARTAN-B312 successfully delivers the package to the Autumn and allows the vessel to escape by destroying an incoming Covenant battlecruiser. The Pillar of Autumn, pursued by a dozen Covenant vessels, retreats from the system, heading for Installation 04.

I don't see the issue.

[Edited on 03.11.2011 8:06 AM PST]

  • 03.11.2011 8:02 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

1. Why would the pillar retreat to Reach. In the novel it's because Reach was suddenly attacked out of nowhere. In the game, it's been under attack. The Autumn would've been leaving Reach while it was invaded to go on RED FLAG anyway. What was so important that the entire Spartan mission was scrapped just like that, AS it was leaving.

2. What Nav data did it need? Cortana already had the nav data to Halo because of the artifact on Sigma Octanus. Not only that, but Keyes didn't need that data for RED FLAG, which it should've been going to.

  • 03.11.2011 8:09 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
1. Why would the pillar retreat to Reach. In the novel it's because Reach was suddenly attacked out of nowhere. In the game, it's been under attack. The Autumn would've been leaving Reach while it was invaded to go on RED FLAG anyway. What was so important that the entire Spartan mission was scrapped just like that, AS it was leaving.

2. What Nav data did it need? Cortana already had the nav data to Halo because of the artifact on Sigma Octanus. Not only that, but Keyes didn't need that data for RED FLAG, which it should've been going to.


You must have forgotten that every ship was ORDERED to go back to Reach. Any pre-set orders or missions was scrapped for defense of the planet.

  • 03.11.2011 8:14 AM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
1. Why would the pillar retreat to Reach. In the novel it's because Reach was suddenly attacked out of nowhere. In the game, it's been under attack. The Autumn would've been leaving Reach while it was invaded to go on RED FLAG anyway. What was so important that the entire Spartan mission was scrapped just like that, AS it was leaving.

2. What Nav data did it need? Cortana already had the nav data to Halo because of the artifact on Sigma Octanus. Not only that, but Keyes didn't need that data for RED FLAG, which it should've been going to.


You must have forgotten that every ship was ORDERED to go back to Reach. Any pre-set orders or missions was scrapped for defense of the planet.
So, they were ordered to land on a planet that was under attack by numerically superior forces, with a ship that is not rated for atmosphere, to undergo a refit as the planet is being glassed, and not even bother defending itself in the meantime?

  • 03.11.2011 8:19 AM PDT


Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
1. Why would the pillar retreat to Reach. In the novel it's because Reach was suddenly attacked out of nowhere. In the game, it's been under attack. The Autumn would've been leaving Reach while it was invaded to go on RED FLAG anyway. What was so important that the entire Spartan mission was scrapped just like that, AS it was leaving.

2. What Nav data did it need? Cortana already had the nav data to Halo because of the artifact on Sigma Octanus. Not only that, but Keyes didn't need that data for RED FLAG, which it should've been going to.


You must have forgotten that every ship was ORDERED to go back to Reach. Any pre-set orders or missions was scrapped for defense of the planet.
So, they were ordered to land on a planet that was under attack by numerically superior forces, with a ship that is not rated for atmosphere, to undergo a refit as the planet is being glassed, and not even bother defending itself in the meantime?


It went back to the planet so it could get some minor repairs to damage from the battle and to wait for noble team to bring the other half of cortana that had all the information on the forerunners.

  • 03.11.2011 8:30 AM PDT
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Posted by: Recovery 25

Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
1. Why would the pillar retreat to Reach. In the novel it's because Reach was suddenly attacked out of nowhere. In the game, it's been under attack. The Autumn would've been leaving Reach while it was invaded to go on RED FLAG anyway. What was so important that the entire Spartan mission was scrapped just like that, AS it was leaving.

2. What Nav data did it need? Cortana already had the nav data to Halo because of the artifact on Sigma Octanus. Not only that, but Keyes didn't need that data for RED FLAG, which it should've been going to.


You must have forgotten that every ship was ORDERED to go back to Reach. Any pre-set orders or missions was scrapped for defense of the planet.
So, they were ordered to land on a planet that was under attack by numerically superior forces, with a ship that is not rated for atmosphere, to undergo a refit as the planet is being glassed, and not even bother defending itself in the meantime?


It went back to the planet so it could get some minor repairs to damage from the battle and to wait for noble team to bring the other half of cortana that had all the information on the forerunners.


I could've sworn I saw dozens of Spartans near the Autumn along with a mass driver that could shred any ship before they even had a chance to glass anything in the area.

  • 03.11.2011 8:31 AM PDT


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: Recovery 25

Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
1. Why would the pillar retreat to Reach. In the novel it's because Reach was suddenly attacked out of nowhere. In the game, it's been under attack. The Autumn would've been leaving Reach while it was invaded to go on RED FLAG anyway. What was so important that the entire Spartan mission was scrapped just like that, AS it was leaving.

2. What Nav data did it need? Cortana already had the nav data to Halo because of the artifact on Sigma Octanus. Not only that, but Keyes didn't need that data for RED FLAG, which it should've been going to.


You must have forgotten that every ship was ORDERED to go back to Reach. Any pre-set orders or missions was scrapped for defense of the planet.
So, they were ordered to land on a planet that was under attack by numerically superior forces, with a ship that is not rated for atmosphere, to undergo a refit as the planet is being glassed, and not even bother defending itself in the meantime?


It went back to the planet so it could get some minor repairs to damage from the battle and to wait for noble team to bring the other half of cortana that had all the information on the forerunners.


I could've sworn I saw dozens of Spartans near the Autumn along with a mass driver that could shred any ship before they even had a chance to glass anything in the area.


I could have sworn "rated for atmosphere" hasn't been explained in halo lore...

From what I can gather, it simply means the ship can move around like the frigates do in atmosphere. Doesn't mean other ship types can't land or take off.

  • 03.11.2011 8:36 AM PDT

From what I can gather, it simply means the ship can move around like the frigates do in atmosphere. Doesn't mean other ship types can't land or take off.

Rated for atmosphere I think means the PoA can land but it can't move around like a frigate in atmosphere. That is why it needed those engines at the end of Reach.

  • 03.11.2011 8:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: Recovery 25
From what I can gather, it simply means the ship can move around like the frigates do in atmosphere. Doesn't mean other ship types can't land or take off.

Rated for atmosphere I think means the PoA can land but it can't move around like a frigate in atmosphere. That is why it needed those engines at the end of Reach.


Yeah, it had so many rocket pods. It seemed like it would have had a real hard time taking off from the ground without them.

  • 03.11.2011 8:52 AM PDT

Posted by: manwith
Posted by: Recovery 25

Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
1. Why would the pillar retreat to Reach. In the novel it's because Reach was suddenly attacked out of nowhere. In the game, it's been under attack. The Autumn would've been leaving Reach while it was invaded to go on RED FLAG anyway. What was so important that the entire Spartan mission was scrapped just like that, AS it was leaving.

2. What Nav data did it need? Cortana already had the nav data to Halo because of the artifact on Sigma Octanus. Not only that, but Keyes didn't need that data for RED FLAG, which it should've been going to.


You must have forgotten that every ship was ORDERED to go back to Reach. Any pre-set orders or missions was scrapped for defense of the planet.
So, they were ordered to land on a planet that was under attack by numerically superior forces, with a ship that is not rated for atmosphere, to undergo a refit as the planet is being glassed, and not even bother defending itself in the meantime?


It went back to the planet so it could get some minor repairs to damage from the battle and to wait for noble team to bring the other half of cortana that had all the information on the forerunners.


I could've sworn I saw dozens of Spartans near the Autumn along with a mass driver that could shred any ship before they even had a chance to glass anything in the area.
The mass driver is only effective against ships with no shields. The capital ships would be virtually invulnerable. The only reason it worked on the cruiser was because it had to lower the shields around its turret, which was the only thing that would have been damaged.

Again, it makes zero sense to land on the planet. That would require extremely careful maneuvering(you all saw what happened in CE when Keyes tried to land the PoA), guiding via smaller "tugboat"-like craft, boosters to escape atmosphere, etc. All of which is pointless, since everybody knows that ship repairs are done in space. WHICH IS WHAT THEY DID WITH THE IROQUOIS AT SIGMA OCTANUS and literally every other instance.

  • 03.11.2011 9:07 AM PDT

Again, it makes zero sense to land on the planet. That would require extremely careful maneuvering(you all saw what happened in CE when Keyes tried to land the PoA), guiding via smaller "tugboat"-like craft, boosters to escape atmosphere, etc. All of which is pointless, since everybody knows that ship repairs are done in space. WHICH IS WHAT THEY DID WITH THE IROQUOIS AT SIGMA OCTANUS and literally every other instance.
It makes since when half of the most important AI is on the planet. Seriously if your fighting a genocidal covenant of aliens that worships a dead race and half of an AI has all the information you need on that dead race. You would would probably take the chance too land on the planet because if you don't and that AI was important then you lose the last major human planet. Also every instance of a ship being repaired that we have seen is a major repair job. The PoA only needed minor repairs. You can't land a ship with major damage to half the plating on a planet because it would hit the atmosphere and poof gone.

[Edited on 03.11.2011 9:25 AM PST]

  • 03.11.2011 9:24 AM PDT

I'll point out, the landing in CE, was not a landing. The PoA was given directions and basically left on auto-pilot. It was heavily damaged before it even went down.

In CE, it was a barely controlled crash, not a carefully controlled/guided landing.

  • 03.11.2011 9:33 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Recovery 25
Again, it makes zero sense to land on the planet. That would require extremely careful maneuvering(you all saw what happened in CE when Keyes tried to land the PoA), guiding via smaller "tugboat"-like craft, boosters to escape atmosphere, etc. All of which is pointless, since everybody knows that ship repairs are done in space. WHICH IS WHAT THEY DID WITH THE IROQUOIS AT SIGMA OCTANUS and literally every other instance.
It makes since when half of the most important AI is on the planet. Seriously if your fighting a genocidal covenant of aliens that worships a dead race and half of an AI has all the information you need on that dead race. You would would probably take the chance too land on the planet because if you don't and that AI was important then you lose the last major human planet. Also every instance of a ship being repaired that we have seen is a major repair job. The PoA only needed minor repairs. You can't land a ship with major damage to half the plating on a planet because it would hit the atmosphere and poof gone.


The PoA didn't need repairs. It JUST had all it's repairs and refitting done in orbit and was untouched by the space battle. FFS.

  • 03.11.2011 10:32 AM PDT

"Sa kyr'am Nau tracyn kad, Vode An."


Posted by: Thugzz Deluxxxe
I love it but I don't consider it to be canon at all.

  • 03.11.2011 10:51 AM PDT

I love it too, despite the huge canon changes. It's easy to ignore some parts and replace them with more game appropriate conclusions, but some things(like why Master Chief was sleeping in the middle of a battle, why the super mac guns didn't blow up the LNoS which cost the life of a Spartan II) were left too open ended for me. Great game though. The PoA level is one of the best levels in the series, and the multiplayer is fun. Music is pure epicness. That one track titled Overture? Look it up on youtube. Kind of irrelevant, but I figured when we were talking about the whole loving Reach thing I should mention the music.

  • 03.11.2011 1:21 PM PDT


Posted by: Kyle Knight
I love it too, despite the huge canon changes. It's easy to ignore some parts and replace them with more game appropriate conclusions, but some things(like why Master Chief was sleeping in the middle of a battle, why the super mac guns didn't blow up the LNoS which cost the life of a Spartan II) were left too open ended for me. Great game though. The PoA level is one of the best levels in the series, and the multiplayer is fun. Music is pure epicness. That one track titled Overture? Look it up on youtube. Kind of irrelevant, but I figured when we were talking about the whole loving Reach thing I should mention the music.


Master Chief in cryo-tube is an easter egg.

Super MACs not attacking the LNOS is because neither could see each other.

  • 03.11.2011 1:40 PM PDT


Posted by: Recovery 25

Posted by: Wazooty
Posted by: Recovery 25
Complete bull. In the book the unsc was unaware that reach was being attacked until the 30th. On reach we see a hefty portion of the planet already on fire by august 15th. Dot even said 60% of the fleet was en route to reach as of august 14th, whereas int he book they were not gathering to defend until the 30th, after fermion first detected the fleet. Do you think that the entire fleet EXCEPT the pillar of autumn and all the spartan-IIs were aware that reach was being attacked? I mean, they only constitute one of their best ships and the best ground force in the entire UNSC. They aren't important or anything. Emile also noted that "gauntlet, red and echo teams are assigned to civilian evac ops" on what...the 27th? 3 days before the events of the book. Bungie knows who red team is, they wouldnt name a different group of spartans red team, that group was the spartan-IIs that you say did not join the fight until the 30th because you don't actually think.

You are daft if you think that an entire fleet attacking reach went unnoticed until the 30th. You people say things line up but you don't use a single bit of brain power to actually think about it. Lining up does not equal makes sense.

The book was retconned. The events of the book happened on august 15th and were extended over a two week period, ending on the 30th. The events before august 15th were probably the UNSC trying to destroy the attacking forces as subtly as possible in the hopes that the covenant wouldn't summon an entire fleet. They'd rather fight off one ship than an entire fleet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWAaycIkpnU&feature=relate d From 46 seconds to about a minute twenty. Suck it you going to argue with Bungie.


Except it doesnt fit perfectly. THe only part that fits is that reach actually falls on the 30th.

You can actually check it out yourself and see that bungie contradicts themselves, or just be a complete ignorant fool of a moron, like you are.

You could actually try to argue against me, or just state where bungie contradicts themselves. Bungie says this, but they also actually did this in game. They contradict themselves, but you are too ignorant to see it.

Your too stupid to admit when your wrong and too ignorant or stupid to realize that it does fit together.


The fail....it burns!

Read this.

Nothing about Reach makes a lick of sense. Why can't you see logical reasoning and understand this?

  • 03.11.2011 2:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Recovery 25

Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose
1. Why would the pillar retreat to Reach. In the novel it's because Reach was suddenly attacked out of nowhere. In the game, it's been under attack. The Autumn would've been leaving Reach while it was invaded to go on RED FLAG anyway. What was so important that the entire Spartan mission was scrapped just like that, AS it was leaving.

2. What Nav data did it need? Cortana already had the nav data to Halo because of the artifact on Sigma Octanus. Not only that, but Keyes didn't need that data for RED FLAG, which it should've been going to.


You must have forgotten that every ship was ORDERED to go back to Reach. Any pre-set orders or missions was scrapped for defense of the planet.
So, they were ordered to land on a planet that was under attack by numerically superior forces, with a ship that is not rated for atmosphere, to undergo a refit as the planet is being glassed, and not even bother defending itself in the meantime?


It went back to the planet so it could get some minor repairs to damage from the battle and to wait for noble team to bring the other half of cortana that had all the information on the forerunners.


This itself is contradictory. Cortana in the games knows nothing of the Forerunners; she's just as lost as you are.

But in Reach, we have a new Cortana that evidently has been studying them for quite a while.

  • 03.11.2011 2:06 PM PDT