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This topic has moved here: Subject: Were there any canon changes in Reach that you liked?
  • Subject: Were there any canon changes in Reach that you liked?
Subject: Were there any canon changes in Reach that you liked?


Posted by: BK Burger Boy
I'm going to be completely honest, when I heard "UNSC Cruiser Pillar of Autumn is awaiting your arrival," I got giddy as hell. Seeing my Favorite Halo character again after 10 years also helped me forgive the fact that the Pillar of Autumn was chilling on Reach for no apparent reason.


Same here lol

  • 03.11.2011 2:09 PM PDT
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I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.

I just liked the level for it's battles and story continuation.

  • 03.11.2011 3:02 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Recovery 25
Again, it makes zero sense to land on the planet. That would require extremely careful maneuvering(you all saw what happened in CE when Keyes tried to land the PoA), guiding via smaller "tugboat"-like craft, boosters to escape atmosphere, etc. All of which is pointless, since everybody knows that ship repairs are done in space. WHICH IS WHAT THEY DID WITH THE IROQUOIS AT SIGMA OCTANUS and literally every other instance.
It makes since when half of the most important AI is on the planet. Seriously if your fighting a genocidal covenant of aliens that worships a dead race and half of an AI has all the information you need on that dead race. You would would probably take the chance too land on the planet because if you don't and that AI was important then you lose the last major human planet. Also every instance of a ship being repaired that we have seen is a major repair job. The PoA only needed minor repairs. You can't land a ship with major damage to half the plating on a planet because it would hit the atmosphere and poof gone.


The PoA didn't need repairs. It JUST had all it's repairs and refitting done in orbit and was untouched by the space battle. FFS.


I seem to recall the MAC Gun being offlined in TFoR, and then suddenly working again CE, that sounds like something that'd need a repair job to me, plus it was just in a battle, there would have been some damage done to the ship that would need to be repaired at some point. And I highly doubt repairing a MAC Gun is something you can really do in Slipspace. So obviously you're wrong about it not needing repairs. And now we actually have a completely plausible reason for why the MAC Gun would suddenly be working again in CE rather than just leaving it up to "game detail trumps book detail".

On topic:
I liked that the battle was extended, two hours to fall does not make a lick of sense for Humanities Stronghold World and the hub of their whole military. Especially since they had almost every single ship in service at Reach and the SMACs. lasting two weeks makes a whole helluva lot more sense.

[Edited on 03.11.2011 3:36 PM PST]

  • 03.11.2011 3:33 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: OrderedComa
On topic:
I liked that the battle was extended, two hours to fall does not make a lick of sense for Humanities Stronghold World and the hub of their whole military. Especially since they had almost every single ship in service at Reach and the SMACs. lasting two weeks makes a whole helluva lot more sense.

Battles don't rage for weeks. Battles are hours. WARS are weeks, months, years. Even on a planetary scale.

Think of it this way. A battle is not won/lost when the fighting stops. It is won/lost when the major military strength in the area is subdued by the opposing side. So Reach falls in a couple hours because of these reasons:

1) The Covenant invade from orbit.
2) Mac Defense grid + UNSC fleet at great expense defend Reach fairly successfuly (keep in mind the only thing hurting ANY of the covenant ships are MAC cannons and a majority of their guns are the grid itself).
3) Covenant ships deploy ground troops on MAC defense grid generators (unfortunately these were relatively close to each other, which means you only need an opening to get in).
4) The generators fall, the fleet falls.
5) Planet glassed save for Castle Base, which is excavated by the Covenant for Forerunner tech.

It doesn't take days to get to step 4. Step 4 is when Reach fell.

[Edited on 03.11.2011 3:44 PM PST]

  • 03.11.2011 3:43 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
The fail....it burns!

Read this.

Nothing about Reach makes a lick of sense. Why can't you see logical reasoning and understand this?


Oh, that topic, in which the group against also places reasons why it makes sense and canon isn't shattered to the extent people try to make it.


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: OrderedComa
On topic:
I liked that the battle was extended, two hours to fall does not make a lick of sense for Humanities Stronghold World and the hub of their whole military. Especially since they had almost every single ship in service at Reach and the SMACs. lasting two weeks makes a whole helluva lot more sense.

Battles don't rage for weeks. Battles are hours. WARS are weeks, months, years. Even on a planetary scale.

Think of it this way. A battle is not won/lost when the fighting stops. It is won/lost when the major military strength in the area is subdued by the opposing side. So Reach falls in a couple hours because of these reasons:

1) The Covenant invade from orbit.
2) Mac Defense grid + UNSC fleet at great expense defend Reach fairly successfuly (keep in mind the only thing hurting ANY of the covenant ships are MAC cannons and a majority of their guns are the grid itself).
3) Covenant ships deploy ground troops on MAC defense grid generators (unfortunately these were relatively close to each other, which means you only need an opening to get in).
4) The generators fall, the fleet falls.
5) Planet glassed save for Castle Base, which is excavated by the Covenant for Forerunner tech.

It doesn't take days to get to step 4. Step 4 is when Reach fell.


The battle to reclaim Harvest lasted 5 years.

  • 03.11.2011 3:46 PM PDT

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Recovery 25
Again, it makes zero sense to land on the planet. That would require extremely careful maneuvering(you all saw what happened in CE when Keyes tried to land the PoA), guiding via smaller "tugboat"-like craft, boosters to escape atmosphere, etc. All of which is pointless, since everybody knows that ship repairs are done in space. WHICH IS WHAT THEY DID WITH THE IROQUOIS AT SIGMA OCTANUS and literally every other instance.
It makes since when half of the most important AI is on the planet. Seriously if your fighting a genocidal covenant of aliens that worships a dead race and half of an AI has all the information you need on that dead race. You would would probably take the chance too land on the planet because if you don't and that AI was important then you lose the last major human planet. Also every instance of a ship being repaired that we have seen is a major repair job. The PoA only needed minor repairs. You can't land a ship with major damage to half the plating on a planet because it would hit the atmosphere and poof gone.


The PoA didn't need repairs. It JUST had all it's repairs and refitting done in orbit and was untouched by the space battle. FFS.


I seem to recall the MAC Gun being offlined in TFoR, and then suddenly working again CE, that sounds like something that'd need a repair job to me, plus it was just in a battle, there would have been some damage done to the ship that would need to be repaired at some point. And I highly doubt repairing a MAC Gun is something you can really do in Slipspace. So obviously you're wrong about it not needing repairs. And now we actually have a completely plausible reason for why the MAC Gun would suddenly be working again in CE rather than just leaving it up to "game detail trumps book detail".
The PoA killed the Flagship partially with its MAC cannon, if I recall. If it went offline, it was after the flagship damaged it with the beam weapon.

On topic:
I liked that the battle was extended, two hours to fall does not make a lick of sense for Humanities Stronghold World and the hub of their whole military. Especially since they had almost every single ship in service at Reach and the SMACs. lasting two weeks makes a whole helluva lot more sense.
I'll try an analogy here. Let's say it takes a snowball one minute to melt in 20 degree Celsius. Now, imagine someone saying that it takes twenty snowballs 120 minutes to melt at 60 degrees Celsius. Now imagine that the snowballs are UNSC ships defending Reach. That's essentially what you're trying to defend here.

  • 03.11.2011 3:46 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: OrderedComa
On topic:
I liked that the battle was extended, two hours to fall does not make a lick of sense for Humanities Stronghold World and the hub of their whole military. Especially since they had almost every single ship in service at Reach and the SMACs. lasting two weeks makes a whole helluva lot more sense.

Battles don't rage for weeks. Battles are hours. WARS are weeks, months, years. Even on a planetary scale.

Think of it this way. A battle is not won/lost when the fighting stops. It is won/lost when the major military strength in the area is subdued by the opposing side. So Reach falls in a couple hours because of these reasons:

1) The Covenant invade from orbit.
2) Mac Defense grid + UNSC fleet at great expense defend Reach fairly successfuly (keep in mind the only thing hurting ANY of the covenant ships are MAC cannons and a majority of their guns are the grid itself).
3) Covenant ships deploy ground troops on MAC defense grid generators (unfortunately these were relatively close to each other, which means you only need an opening to get in).
4) The generators fall, the fleet falls.
5) Planet glassed save for Castle Base, which is excavated by the Covenant for Forerunner tech.

It doesn't take days to get to step 4. Step 4 is when Reach fell.


Actually no, battles can last days, it really depends on the terrain and the positions, take the Battle of Thermopylae for instance, that lasted for much longer than a few hours because the of position the Greeks were in and how the Persians had to come at them. Sieges will almost always last longer than a straight up pitched battle, and attacking the generators is much more in line with a siege than a straight out battle.

We don't know all that much about the defense around the generators, but it definitely falls into a siege category, and in order to come near the generators the Covenant first have to take out defenses to pave the way for their troops. And with Spartans doing the defending, breaking through is going to take a great deal longer than it would if the Covies were just up against a standard army grunt. And actually we don't know when the Covies had firm control over Reach in the new timeline, it could be anywhere from a whole day to a full two weeks. It is clear though that they are in control at the time the Autumn flees Reach.

  • 03.11.2011 4:05 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Recovery 25

Posted by: Wazooty
Posted by: Recovery 25
Complete bull. In the book the unsc was unaware that reach was being attacked until the 30th. On reach we see a hefty portion of the planet already on fire by august 15th. Dot even said 60% of the fleet was en route to reach as of august 14th, whereas int he book they were not gathering to defend until the 30th, after fermion first detected the fleet. Do you think that the entire fleet EXCEPT the pillar of autumn and all the spartan-IIs were aware that reach was being attacked? I mean, they only constitute one of their best ships and the best ground force in the entire UNSC. They aren't important or anything. Emile also noted that "gauntlet, red and echo teams are assigned to civilian evac ops" on what...the 27th? 3 days before the events of the book. Bungie knows who red team is, they wouldnt name a different group of spartans red team, that group was the spartan-IIs that you say did not join the fight until the 30th because you don't actually think.

You are daft if you think that an entire fleet attacking reach went unnoticed until the 30th. You people say things line up but you don't use a single bit of brain power to actually think about it. Lining up does not equal makes sense.

The book was retconned. The events of the book happened on august 15th and were extended over a two week period, ending on the 30th. The events before august 15th were probably the UNSC trying to destroy the attacking forces as subtly as possible in the hopes that the covenant wouldn't summon an entire fleet. They'd rather fight off one ship than an entire fleet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWAaycIkpnU&feature=relate d From 46 seconds to about a minute twenty. Suck it you going to argue with Bungie.


Except it doesnt fit perfectly. THe only part that fits is that reach actually falls on the 30th.

You can actually check it out yourself and see that bungie contradicts themselves, or just be a complete ignorant fool of a moron, like you are.

You could actually try to argue against me, or just state where bungie contradicts themselves. Bungie says this, but they also actually did this in game. They contradict themselves, but you are too ignorant to see it.

Your too stupid to admit when your wrong and too ignorant or stupid to realize that it does fit together.


The fail....it burns!

Read this.

Nothing about Reach makes a lick of sense. Why can't you see logical reasoning and understand this?


Your source is a another forum you sir fail.

  • 03.11.2011 6:53 PM PDT

The PoA killed the Flagship partially with its MAC cannon, if I recall. If it went offline, it was after the flagship damaged it with the beam weapon.

You just proved your argument wrong at first you said that the PoA didn't participate in the battle so it couldn't have taken damage but now your saying that it did participate.

  • 03.11.2011 6:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Changsta inc
Racism isn't wrong if it's funny.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
People can argue up and down the TFOR is ruined because of Halo Reach. Reality is it is not ruined, and both 343 and Bungie have pointed out the book and game do connect. (I've linked a 343 video talking about the space battle a few times in other threads.)


An excellent point.

-n

  • 03.11.2011 10:41 PM PDT

Hello! Feel free to some Cobbler as this ODST stares at you.

Posted by: privet caboose
First reaction to hearing Captain Keyes: "LORD YES, KEYES!"
Second reaction: "WAIT, WTF?!"
Third reaction: "WHO CARE'S IT'S MOTHER-FRIGGIN' KEYES!"
Final reaction: "RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGEEEEEEE" ;

More or less, this.

  • 03.11.2011 10:45 PM PDT

Posted by: Recovery 25
The PoA killed the Flagship partially with its MAC cannon, if I recall. If it went offline, it was after the flagship damaged it with the beam weapon.

You just proved your argument wrong at first you said that the PoA didn't participate in the battle so it couldn't have taken damage but now your saying that it did participate.
*facepalm* I apologize for using content from the novel as part of my argument. I see now that the novel means nothing and any previous canon should be rendered illegitimate regardless of how much is destroyed to pave the way for unexciting and unremarkable new canon.


THIS IS IN THE NOVEL. Just so nobody gets confused. When the Spartan-II's got to the generators to defend them, there were four marines left. Four, 4. The rest had been killed. That means ~30 Spartan-II's against untold thousands of Covenant ground forces, which have tanks and aerial support. These Spartan-II's were overrun in hours by sheer numbers, and forced to use nukes which disabled the generators.

  • 03.11.2011 10:52 PM PDT


Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: Recovery 25
The PoA killed the Flagship partially with its MAC cannon, if I recall. If it went offline, it was after the flagship damaged it with the beam weapon.

You just proved your argument wrong at first you said that the PoA didn't participate in the battle so it couldn't have taken damage but now your saying that it did participate.
*facepalm* I apologize for using content from the novel as part of my argument. I see now that the novel means nothing and any previous canon should be rendered illegitimate regardless of how much is destroyed to pave the way for unexciting and unremarkable new canon.


THIS IS IN THE NOVEL. Just so nobody gets confused. When the Spartan-II's got to the generators to defend them, there were four marines left. Four, 4. The rest had been killed. That means ~30 Spartan-II's against untold thousands of Covenant ground forces, which have tanks and aerial support. These Spartan-II's were overrun in hours by sheer numbers, and forced to use nukes which disabled the generators.


I think his point is you said "The PoA did not engage enemy forces, thus it took no damage and wouldn't need any repairs."

Then you turn around and provide proof that it did engage and did take damage.

  • 03.11.2011 10:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: Recovery 25
The PoA killed the Flagship partially with its MAC cannon, if I recall. If it went offline, it was after the flagship damaged it with the beam weapon.

You just proved your argument wrong at first you said that the PoA didn't participate in the battle so it couldn't have taken damage but now your saying that it did participate.
*facepalm* I apologize for using content from the novel as part of my argument. I see now that the novel means nothing and any previous canon should be rendered illegitimate regardless of how much is destroyed to pave the way for unexciting and unremarkable new canon.


THIS IS IN THE NOVEL. Just so nobody gets confused. When the Spartan-II's got to the generators to defend them, there were four marines left. Four, 4. The rest had been killed. That means ~30 Spartan-II's against untold thousands of Covenant ground forces, which have tanks and aerial support. These Spartan-II's were overrun in hours by sheer numbers, and forced to use nukes which disabled the generators.


I think his point is you said "The PoA did not engage enemy forces, thus it took no damage and wouldn't need any repairs."

Then you turn around and provide proof that it did engage and did take damage.
I was mashing stuff together. In that instance, I was replying to the person who was insisting that the PoA had indeed been fighting and had its MAC disabled.

That requires that the PoA actually be fighting, and this would be in favour of the novel's story, since there's no point in landing a non-atmospheric capital ship on a doomed planet during an invasion.

If you'd like, I can make separate posts so it doesn't confuse you as to who I'm responding to and what points I'm addressing.

  • 03.11.2011 11:14 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: chickenlittle
Posted by: Recovery 25
The PoA killed the Flagship partially with its MAC cannon, if I recall. If it went offline, it was after the flagship damaged it with the beam weapon.

You just proved your argument wrong at first you said that the PoA didn't participate in the battle so it couldn't have taken damage but now your saying that it did participate.
*facepalm* I apologize for using content from the novel as part of my argument. I see now that the novel means nothing and any previous canon should be rendered illegitimate regardless of how much is destroyed to pave the way for unexciting and unremarkable new canon.


THIS IS IN THE NOVEL. Just so nobody gets confused. When the Spartan-II's got to the generators to defend them, there were four marines left. Four, 4. The rest had been killed. That means ~30 Spartan-II's against untold thousands of Covenant ground forces, which have tanks and aerial support. These Spartan-II's were overrun in hours by sheer numbers, and forced to use nukes which disabled the generators.


I think his point is you said "The PoA did not engage enemy forces, thus it took no damage and wouldn't need any repairs."

Then you turn around and provide proof that it did engage and did take damage.

Yes exactly my point.

  • 03.11.2011 11:56 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
First reaction to hearing Captain Keyes: "LORD YES, KEYES!"
Second reaction: "WAIT, WTF?!"
Third reaction: "WHO CARE'S IT'S MOTHER-FRIGGIN' KEYES!"
Final reaction: "RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGEEEEEEE" ;

  • 03.12.2011 12:08 AM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: Sigma617
That actually pissed me off to no end when I heard it...

however, I won't deny she's a damn fine craft in this engine.


Gotta agree with you on that one.

What i just don't get is in the first noble team trailer, they showed Reach as what we thought we were going to get. When i saw the falcons flying into multiple covenant cruisers i was just like "Damn, this is going to be an epic game!"

Sadly, all of that disappeared, and i don't know what idiot inside Bungie made that decision.

:On topic

Personally, i only liked the end of the game for canon, being Lone wolf, nothing else, to me, that feels alright and fits canon.

  • 03.12.2011 1:45 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: OrderedComa
Actually no, battles can last days, it really depends on the terrain and the positions, take the Battle of Thermopylae for instance, that lasted for much longer than a few hours because the of position the Greeks were in and how the Persians had to come at them. Sieges will almost always last longer than a straight up pitched battle, and attacking the generators is much more in line with a siege than a straight out battle.

We don't know all that much about the defense around the generators, but it definitely falls into a siege category, and in order to come near the generators the Covenant first have to take out defenses to pave the way for their troops. And with Spartans doing the defending, breaking through is going to take a great deal longer than it would if the Covies were just up against a standard army grunt. And actually we don't know when the Covies had firm control over Reach in the new timeline, it could be anywhere from a whole day to a full two weeks. It is clear though that they are in control at the time the Autumn flees Reach.

You can't compare a battle between people on foot to that of ships in space. The closest thing to it is a modern Naval battle.

  • 03.12.2011 1:49 AM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: OrderedComa
Actually no, battles can last days, it really depends on the terrain and the positions, take the Battle of Thermopylae for instance, that lasted for much longer than a few hours because the of position the Greeks were in and how the Persians had to come at them. Sieges will almost always last longer than a straight up pitched battle, and attacking the generators is much more in line with a siege than a straight out battle.

We don't know all that much about the defense around the generators, but it definitely falls into a siege category, and in order to come near the generators the Covenant first have to take out defenses to pave the way for their troops. And with Spartans doing the defending, breaking through is going to take a great deal longer than it would if the Covies were just up against a standard army grunt. And actually we don't know when the Covies had firm control over Reach in the new timeline, it could be anywhere from a whole day to a full two weeks. It is clear though that they are in control at the time the Autumn flees Reach.

You can't compare a battle between people on foot to that of ships in space. The closest thing to it is a modern Naval battle.


I was talking about the fight for the generators, not the space battle, but they are directly linked, as you have said. If the generators last longer, then the space battle would last longer since the SMACs were a pivotal piece of the UNSC defense in the battle.

  • 03.12.2011 9:53 AM PDT

I blame myself, not Stosh.


Posted by: Recovery 25

Posted by: Wazooty
Posted by: Recovery 25
Complete bull. In the book the unsc was unaware that reach was being attacked until the 30th. On reach we see a hefty portion of the planet already on fire by august 15th. Dot even said 60% of the fleet was en route to reach as of august 14th, whereas int he book they were not gathering to defend until the 30th, after fermion first detected the fleet. Do you think that the entire fleet EXCEPT the pillar of autumn and all the spartan-IIs were aware that reach was being attacked? I mean, they only constitute one of their best ships and the best ground force in the entire UNSC. They aren't important or anything. Emile also noted that "gauntlet, red and echo teams are assigned to civilian evac ops" on what...the 27th? 3 days before the events of the book. Bungie knows who red team is, they wouldnt name a different group of spartans red team, that group was the spartan-IIs that you say did not join the fight until the 30th because you don't actually think.

You are daft if you think that an entire fleet attacking reach went unnoticed until the 30th. You people say things line up but you don't use a single bit of brain power to actually think about it. Lining up does not equal makes sense.

The book was retconned. The events of the book happened on august 15th and were extended over a two week period, ending on the 30th. The events before august 15th were probably the UNSC trying to destroy the attacking forces as subtly as possible in the hopes that the covenant wouldn't summon an entire fleet. They'd rather fight off one ship than an entire fleet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWAaycIkpnU&feature=relate d From 46 seconds to about a minute twenty. Suck it you going to argue with Bungie.


Except it doesnt fit perfectly. THe only part that fits is that reach actually falls on the 30th.

You can actually check it out yourself and see that bungie contradicts themselves, or just be a complete ignorant fool of a moron, like you are.

You could actually try to argue against me, or just state where bungie contradicts themselves. Bungie says this, but they also actually did this in game. They contradict themselves, but you are too ignorant to see it.

Your too stupid to admit when your wrong and too ignorant or stupid to realize that it does fit together.


For the last time, Bungie contradicts themselves. Read the books and play the games. Fits like a jigsaw puzzle? I was annoyed by the fact that Lehto thought that.

  • 03.12.2011 10:04 AM PDT

Aren't jigsaw puzzles complex? If you are missing a piece it looks all wrong and messed up?

If so, then his line is perfectly true. They do fit together but not in the 'traditional' sense. We might be missing pieces that make it all fit together nicely (Though it does so right now anyway, maybe not perfectly, but not to this crazy-bad extent people try to advertise.)

  • 03.12.2011 10:10 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Aren't jigsaw puzzles complex? If you are missing a piece it looks all wrong and messed up?

Jigsaw puzzles aren't that complex. They are merely process of elimination. But in this case, it is like you bought the Puzzle that is Fall of Reach, finished it and then the creators (Bungie) came in and hand you twenty more pieces and ensured you they would fit.


If so, then his line is perfectly true. They do fit together but not in the 'traditional' sense. We might be missing pieces that make it all fit together nicely (Though it does so right now anyway, maybe not perfectly, but not to this crazy-bad extent people try to advertise.)

Define "traditional sense". The biggest issue of all is the entirely different amount of time the event took place in on top of character locations/existences. These are not just new pieces to the puzzle, but pieces from an entirely different one now.

[Edited on 03.12.2011 1:03 PM PST]

  • 03.12.2011 1:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Aren't jigsaw puzzles complex? If you are missing a piece it looks all wrong and messed up?

If so, then his line is perfectly true. They do fit together but not in the 'traditional' sense. We might be missing pieces that make it all fit together nicely (Though it does so right now anyway, maybe not perfectly, but not to this crazy-bad extent people try to advertise.)


I know really! We don't have all the information available to us, and it is not very hard to see how things can at least link or fit together, I will admit that things are not completely adhesive yet, but the game and the book do link up. It's definitely nowhere near as bad as people are making thins out to be!

  • 04.25.2011 5:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: hotshot revan II
I don't give a damn anymore.
Neither do I. Though I can't wait for the next Forerunner book.

[Edited on 04.25.2011 5:19 PM PDT]

  • 04.25.2011 5:17 PM PDT