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Subject: Maybe The Guns Were On The Other Side Of Reach

http://www.gateway.com/systems/product/529668531.php

Maybe the orbital mac guns defending Reach were on the other side of the planet.

  • 03.10.2011 8:23 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

No, they were all having maintenance work done at the exact same time.

  • 03.10.2011 8:24 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: dahuterschuter
No, they were all having maintenance work done at the exact same time.
Yes, and ONI was on vacation all August.

DUH

  • 03.10.2011 8:25 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

UWG

My jokes, so I don't lose them (ignore this):
ZedFish's Opinion on Sgt. Foley.
ZedFish's Forerunner Rickroll.

Slightly my point.

My big counter to the "Lack of SMAC" (awesome rhyme, there) is that there are 20 in orbit around a planet larger than Earth.

Divide the surface area of Reach by 20, and you'll get what one SMAC covers.
You'll find it is spread far too thin, and there's no way it could be very effective.

Reach's diametre: 15,273km
Surface area of a sphere: 4*pi*r-squared
=4*pi*(7,636.5*7,636.5)
=4*pi*58,316,132.25
=4*183,205,532.66
=732,822,130.65 square KM.

732822130.65/20= 36,641,106.53 square KM per SMAC.

...That's an area twice the size of Russia. PER SMAC.

[Edited on 03.10.2011 8:36 PM PST]

  • 03.10.2011 8:25 PM PDT

I have stopped caring about the details that bungie decided to not tell us about, I'm just believing my own story.

  • 03.10.2011 8:27 PM PDT

Pay more attention when watching cutscenes, the covenant shut down the generators. They were brought back online just in time for the main fleet to arrive and red team to defend them.

  • 03.10.2011 8:35 PM PDT

Several Reasons why they didn't use them.

A Super Carrier is massive, 27km long, with Shields that could take several MAC shots, even if it were to punch through, it hardly would do much damage to the whole ship.

Another is the fact there were only 20 on Reach. Not enough for any to be in the same area where the Super Carrier was.

Another was the fact that they were shut down by the Covenant before the Invasion came.

  • 03.10.2011 8:40 PM PDT

This is the first time I've actually seen somebody propose a practical explanation as to why there are no orbital cannons.

This is quite plausible; however, we know that an orbital cannon destroyed the corvette attacking Sword Base, and the Covenant attack started there, so it's busted.

  • 03.10.2011 8:43 PM PDT

"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."

"Waiting is good. It means you’re not going to die. The person you need to feel sorry for is the one who gets rushed into the ER and treated first."

NREMT-B

Tiocfaidh ár lá!

Was it an orbital MAC? I was under the impression that it was ship based.

[Edited on 03.10.2011 8:47 PM PST]

  • 03.10.2011 8:46 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: mojeda101
Several Reasons why they didn't use them.

A Super Carrier is massive, 27km long, with Shields that could take several MAC shots, even if it were to punch through, it hardly would do much damage to the whole ship.

Another is the fact there were only 20 on Reach. Not enough for any to be in the same area where the Super Carrier was.

Another was the fact that they were shut down by the Covenant before the Invasion came.


There is nothing to substantiate your first claim.

And your third is flat out wrong. The MACs are still operational by current canon by the time the invasion force came at the end of Long Night of Solace. The fact that all recalled Spartans were accounted for by August 27th for the Red Flag briefing combined with the Beta Red radio transmissions dealing with Beta Red's deployment to protect the MAC generator facility lend credence to that.

  • 03.10.2011 8:46 PM PDT


Posted by: chickenlittle
This is the first time I've actually seen somebody propose a practical explanation as to why there are no orbital cannons.

This is quite plausible; however, we know that an orbital cannon destroyed the corvette attacking Sword Base, and the Covenant attack started there, so it's busted.


We just know there is an orbital defense that took the shot. Might have not been a super mac.

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: mojeda101
Several Reasons why they didn't use them.

A Super Carrier is massive, 27km long, with Shields that could take several MAC shots, even if it were to punch through, it hardly would do much damage to the whole ship.

Another is the fact there were only 20 on Reach. Not enough for any to be in the same area where the Super Carrier was.

Another was the fact that they were shut down by the Covenant before the Invasion came.


There is nothing to substantiate your first claim.

And your third is flat out wrong. The MACs are still operational by current canon by the time the invasion force came at the end of Long Night of Solace. The fact that all recalled Spartans were accounted for by August 27th for the Red Flag briefing combined with the Beta Red radio transmissions dealing with Beta Red's deployment to protect the MAC generator facility lend credence to that.


They mention in Tip of the Spear that orbital defenses were also being hit some.

Though, if I remember the book reference right all 20 Super MACs were in the same location in a defensive line...

  • 03.10.2011 8:54 PM PDT

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: chickenlittle
This is the first time I've actually seen somebody propose a practical explanation as to why there are no orbital cannons.

This is quite plausible; however, we know that an orbital cannon destroyed the corvette attacking Sword Base, and the Covenant attack started there, so it's busted.


We just know there is an orbital defense that took the shot. Might have not been a super mac.
The only defensive cannons were Super-MACs. It was either a platform or a ship, and "orbital defence" normally means dedicated platforms in any fiction you can name.

  • 03.10.2011 9:00 PM PDT

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: mojeda101
Several Reasons why they didn't use them.

A Super Carrier is massive, 27km long, with Shields that could take several MAC shots, even if it were to punch through, it hardly would do much damage to the whole ship.

Another is the fact there were only 20 on Reach. Not enough for any to be in the same area where the Super Carrier was.

Another was the fact that they were shut down by the Covenant before the Invasion came.


There is nothing to substantiate your first claim.

And your third is flat out wrong. The MACs are still operational by current canon by the time the invasion force came at the end of Long Night of Solace. The fact that all recalled Spartans were accounted for by August 27th for the Red Flag briefing combined with the Beta Red radio transmissions dealing with Beta Red's deployment to protect the MAC generator facility lend credence to that.


Look up in the topic, others stated the exact same thing, watch the Cutscenes and listen closely. Otherwise you do not bother to listen to Tip of the Spear's cutscene.

Concerning the first, go back to Fall of Reach, Page 359, a Super Carrier just beamed the Herodotus clean through with its beam-like weapon. Go on to 361, She took 3 MAC shots, and 500 Missiles, then the shields rippled and several missiles struck her hull, Cortana told Keyes "Minimal Damage".

That enough proof for you?

[Edited on 03.10.2011 9:03 PM PST]

  • 03.10.2011 9:01 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: mojeda101
Several Reasons why they didn't use them.

A Super Carrier is massive, 27km long, with Shields that could take several MAC shots, even if it were to punch through, it hardly would do much damage to the whole ship.

Another is the fact there were only 20 on Reach. Not enough for any to be in the same area where the Super Carrier was.

Another was the fact that they were shut down by the Covenant before the Invasion came.


There is nothing to substantiate your first claim.

And your third is flat out wrong. The MACs are still operational by current canon by the time the invasion force came at the end of Long Night of Solace. The fact that all recalled Spartans were accounted for by August 27th for the Red Flag briefing combined with the Beta Red radio transmissions dealing with Beta Red's deployment to protect the MAC generator facility lend credence to that.


Look up in the topic, others stated the exact same thing, watch the Cutscenes and listen closely.

Concerning the first, go back to Fall of Reach, Page 359, a Super Carrier just beamed the Herodotus clean through with its beam-like weapon. Go on to 361, She took 3 MAC shots, and 500 Missiles, then the shields rippled and several missiles struck her hull, Cortana told Keyes "Minimal Damage"

That enough proof for you?


No because what you've just stated has absolutely nothing to do with the power of a Super MAC against a super carrier's shields.

Nor have you stated any proof about how the Super MAC platforms are "shut down" as you say when they're still in operation long after the super carrier is finally destroyed.

  • 03.10.2011 9:04 PM PDT


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Nor have you stated any proof about how the Super MAC platforms are "shut down" as you say when they're still in operation long after the super carrier is finally destroyed.


Doesn't have to mean "Permanent shut off." Could be a temporary disable which was fixed quickly when the generators were secured.

  • 03.10.2011 9:05 PM PDT

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: mojeda101
Several Reasons why they didn't use them.

A Super Carrier is massive, 27km long, with Shields that could take several MAC shots, even if it were to punch through, it hardly would do much damage to the whole ship.

Another is the fact there were only 20 on Reach. Not enough for any to be in the same area where the Super Carrier was.

Another was the fact that they were shut down by the Covenant before the Invasion came.


There is nothing to substantiate your first claim.

And your third is flat out wrong. The MACs are still operational by current canon by the time the invasion force came at the end of Long Night of Solace. The fact that all recalled Spartans were accounted for by August 27th for the Red Flag briefing combined with the Beta Red radio transmissions dealing with Beta Red's deployment to protect the MAC generator facility lend credence to that.


Look up in the topic, others stated the exact same thing, watch the Cutscenes and listen closely.

Concerning the first, go back to Fall of Reach, Page 359, a Super Carrier just beamed the Herodotus clean through with its beam-like weapon. Go on to 361, She took 3 MAC shots, and 500 Missiles, then the shields rippled and several missiles struck her hull, Cortana told Keyes "Minimal Damage"

That enough proof for you?


No because what you've just stated has absolutely nothing to do with the power of a Super MAC against a super carrier's shields.

Nor have you stated any proof about how the Super MAC platforms are "shut down" as you say when they're still in operation long after the super carrier is finally destroyed.


Did I say anything about Super MAC's? I don't see anything about that in my post. I said MAC's, not Super MAC's.

Apparently they were under attack during the battle of Viery. Once the Carrier was discovered, I assumed they took back the MAC's although not enough time of which they could have used them as i'm curious why the hell didn't they. Most likely still attempting to recapture or move into position.

[Edited on 03.10.2011 9:12 PM PST]

  • 03.10.2011 9:09 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: mojeda101
Several Reasons why they didn't use them.

A Super Carrier is massive, 27km long, with Shields that could take several MAC shots, even if it were to punch through, it hardly would do much damage to the whole ship.

Another is the fact there were only 20 on Reach. Not enough for any to be in the same area where the Super Carrier was.

Another was the fact that they were shut down by the Covenant before the Invasion came.


There is nothing to substantiate your first claim.

And your third is flat out wrong. The MACs are still operational by current canon by the time the invasion force came at the end of Long Night of Solace. The fact that all recalled Spartans were accounted for by August 27th for the Red Flag briefing combined with the Beta Red radio transmissions dealing with Beta Red's deployment to protect the MAC generator facility lend credence to that.


Look up in the topic, others stated the exact same thing, watch the Cutscenes and listen closely.

Concerning the first, go back to Fall of Reach, Page 359, a Super Carrier just beamed the Herodotus clean through with its beam-like weapon. Go on to 361, She took 3 MAC shots, and 500 Missiles, then the shields rippled and several missiles struck her hull, Cortana told Keyes "Minimal Damage"

That enough proof for you?


No because what you've just stated has absolutely nothing to do with the power of a Super MAC against a super carrier's shields.

Nor have you stated any proof about how the Super MAC platforms are "shut down" as you say when they're still in operation long after the super carrier is finally destroyed.


Did I say anything about Super MAC's? I don't see anything about that in my post.

Apparently they were under attack during the battle of Viery. Once the Carrier was discovered, I assumed they took back the MAC's although not enough time of which they could have used them as i'm curious why the hell didn't they. Most likely still attempting to recapture or move into position.


Yes actually. This entire topic is about why the orbital mac stations weren't used. You responded with your three reasons as to why they weren't used.

If you aren't talking about them, then what would you even be responding to in your original post in this thread.

  • 03.10.2011 9:12 PM PDT

Posted by: StealthSlasher2


I said they could take several MAC shots, not Super MAC's, pay attention.

A Super MAC would rip clean through as they are 9x times stronger, but apparently, they were under attack by the time the Carrier was discovered. Assuming they were still under attack or damaged by the time Long night of Solace took place or began moving into position.

Canon at this point is horrible, don't bother attempting to merge Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach.

[Edited on 03.10.2011 9:19 PM PST]

  • 03.10.2011 9:13 PM PDT

Posted by: Changsta inc
Racism isn't wrong if it's funny.

They're in Reach. One of the new maps is on an orbital MAC gun. If I'm not mistaken.

-n

  • 03.10.2011 9:21 PM PDT

Posted by: Nannerpus
They're in Reach. One of the new maps is on an orbital MAC gun. If I'm not mistaken.

-n


Right...Gamma Station if i'm not mistaken.

[Edited on 03.10.2011 9:25 PM PST]

  • 03.10.2011 9:22 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: StealthSlasher2


I said they could take several MAC shots, not Super MAC's, pay attention.

A Super MAC would rip clean through as they are 9x times stronger.


My my....do you ever remember what you've posted in this thread. Take a step back and look at what you've said so far, particularly in regards to your first bit as this is where the talk of Super MAC's come in.


Posted by: mojeda101
Several Reasons why they didn't use them.

A Super Carrier is massive, 27km long, with Shields that could take several MAC shots, even if it were to punch through, it hardly would do much damage to the whole ship.


The underlined "them" being your reference to the MAC guns followed by your first bit of reasoning conclusion in bold. What is there to take from your first reason than that you assume the MAC stations would also fair no better against the super carrier.

I responded by saying you had no proof to substantiate your claims that the MAC platforms would have no effect on a super carrier.

You respond with:

Posted by: mojeda101
Concerning the first, go back to Fall of Reach, Page 359, a Super Carrier just beamed the Herodotus clean through with its beam-like weapon. Go on to 361, She took 3 MAC shots, and 500 Missiles, then the shields rippled and several missiles struck her hull, Cortana told Keyes "Minimal Damage".


Irrelevant to the point at hand on whether or not the Super MACs would do damage to the super carrier. Sure it's proof in that it does take several normal MAC rounds among other things to break through the shields, but again it does nothing to tie the connection between that and the Super MACs effectiveness against the carrier.

Now you say this while I was in the middle of creating this post:


Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: StealthSlasher2


I said they could take several MAC shots, not Super MAC's, pay attention.

A Super MAC would rip clean through as they are 9x times stronger, but apparently, they were under attack by the time the Carrier was discovered. Assuming they were still under attack or damaged by the time Long night of Solace took place or began moving into position.

Canon at this point is horrible, don't bother attempting to merge Fall of Reach with Halo: Reach.


Right.... the point being contested, that first point, has absolutely nothing to do with merging the Fall of Reach and what happens in Halo Reach in canon. You start off your first post by saying that one of the reasons the platforms can't be used is because the carrier is far too powerful, then try to prove your point with irrelevant proof, now you're doing an about face. Don't try and weasel your way out of what you've said like with all the other times in this forum.

Edit:


Posted by: Nannerpus
They're in Reach. One of the new maps is on an orbital MAC gun. If I'm not mistaken.

-n


No it's not. It takes place on the station that had the Circumference docked on it. Johnson's squad was garrisoned on it, and that's where Blue team's mission took place at. It wasn't a MAC station.

[Edited on 03.10.2011 9:35 PM PST]

  • 03.10.2011 9:33 PM PDT

I really don't need to explain this. Although I will anyway.

A Super Carrier is massive, 27km long, with Shields that could take several MAC shots, even if it were to punch through, it hardly would do much damage to the whole ship.

Where did I ever say SMAC or Super MAC? I don't recall. A SMAC would clean the floor with a Super Carrier, I know that, we all know that, as I said in my other two reasons they were under attack and not in the area at the time to support the Planet.

I told a claim on something I posted, a Shipboard MAC, not a SMAC, theres a difference if you didn't know that.
I posted that as one of my reasons to show why they couldn't use the Frigates to take it out.

It was irrelivent to the SMAC's although it answers why they didn't attempt to use them. My other two points stand.

  • 03.10.2011 9:51 PM PDT

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Don't try and weasel your way out of what you've said like with all the other times in this forum.


Others mention the same claim I did.

Posted by: the n00b pwner

Pay more attention when watching cutscenes, the covenant shut down the generators. They were brought back online just in time for the main fleet to arrive and red team to defend them.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

They mention in Tip of the Spear that orbital defenses were also being hit some.


Why aren't you telling them what you are telling me?

  • 03.10.2011 9:55 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: mojeda101
I really don't need to explain this. Although I will anyway.

A Super Carrier is massive, 27km long, with Shields that could take several MAC shots, even if it were to punch through, it hardly would do much damage to the whole ship.

Where did I ever say SMAC or Super MAC? I don't recall. A SMAC would clean the floor with a Super Carrier, I know that, we all know that, as I said in my other two reasons they were under attack and not in the area at the time to support the Planet.

I told a claim on something I posted, a Shipboard MAC, not a SMAC, theres a difference if you didn't know that.
I posted that as one of my reasons to show why they couldn't use the Frigates to take it out.

It was irrelivent to the SMAC's although it answers why they didn't attempt to use them. My other two points stand.


And yet you still try to add in things to remove yourself from that first point in reference to the MAC platforms. Nowhere have you indicated that you posted that to "show why they couldn't use Frigates to take it out" when it was under a list of why the orbital MAC guns couldn't be used. Hilarious that you still struggle to try and divert away from your original statement by deciding to mention that now. Hilarious...

In any case I never contested your second point.

As for your third, what still stands with that is the Orbital Generators being taken offline. All that is said from the cutscene is that "we are under attack in the Viery territory including orbital defenses". I would love to hear your case as to how the ground generators were "shut down" temporarily as it may be, but considering how you tried to subtly change the reasoning behind your first points I already suspect you'll do the same for the third making it pointless. Already you attempted to counter my earlier point as to why they couldn't have been shut down by saying I was merging the canon of Fall of Reach with Halo Reach making the points null. Yet the proof I put forth in regards to that were from in game radio sources and from Halsey's Diary, not Fall of Reach.

As for this:


Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Don't try and weasel your way out of what you've said like with all the other times in this forum.


Others mention the same claim I did.

Posted by: the n00b pwner

Pay more attention when watching cutscenes, the covenant shut down the generators. They were brought back online just in time for the main fleet to arrive and red team to defend them.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

They mention in Tip of the Spear that orbital defenses were also being hit some.


Why aren't you telling them what you are telling me?


First off I didn't get to pwner because I've been busy writing my posts in response to you. The same point I told you originally still applies. The main point of contention in regards to that is being able to prove that the groundside generators were shut down and rebooted.

Second off, I don't contest Cmdr's point because it's something that happened. It's outright stated in the cutscene.

Now you'll say what's the difference between Cmdr's post and Pwner's and that is that Pwner (and you) decided to take that line about orbital defenses being hit and go and make one hell of a specific assumption saying that the generator (in Pwnder's case) was offline'd or was shut down (in yours) based off one vague line "under attack....including orbital defenses" whereas Cmdr just restates what was briefly mentioned.

  • 03.10.2011 10:18 PM PDT

When I said Shut Down, that was a very loose meaning, as it ties in with Under Attack, Damaged, and Disabled. If something is under attack, I doubt they would attempt to activate it as it is most likely taken plasma Damage. They are of course Damaged due to being under attack, which most likely led up to them being Disabled and shut down for repairs until they were back up to full strength to power the Stations in orbit.

If Canon were to get this right, they would have them back up and running by the time the Covenant fleet had arrived in LnoS. Which would technically fix the canon, although the dates are still wrong. Even so, they became under attack once again hours later which must have been a pain in the arse.

And I was not attempting to prove you wrong saying stop merging the book with the game, I was simply stating that it really is a huge mix up as it is. Just clarifying that.

  • 03.10.2011 10:35 PM PDT

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