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Subject: Could the Flood Be Infected Precusers?

Explain.

  • 03.11.2011 9:07 AM PDT
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I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.

Wait, what? Back this up with a theory dude, don't expect us to come up with one.

  • 03.11.2011 9:08 AM PDT

well you know, that would make an awesome revalation for 343's game... :) I'm a dumbass...

  • 03.11.2011 9:11 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

No.

The Forerunners destroyed the Precursors many a year before the Flood was even around (as we know it, they were merely a white powder at this time).

  • 03.11.2011 9:19 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

**SPOILERS** (Don't know when is a sufficient time to stop warning?)


NO, the Flood began life as nothing more than a spore and then evolved into the form of Flood seen later. The Precursor created the Flood as a biological weapon of mass destruction to exact revenge on the Forerunner for destroying their race.



[Edited on 03.11.2011 10:23 AM PST]

  • 03.11.2011 9:20 AM PDT
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I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.

I'm waiting for more info before I come to a conclusion on whether or not the Precursors created the flood.

  • 03.11.2011 10:00 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Yes. This is the only explanation that makes any sense. OP you have opened my eyes.

  • 03.11.2011 10:01 AM PDT

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******** If you are still reading and are concerned about spoilers, you are dumb ********


Posted by: switch 104 sv
The Precursor created the Flood as a biological weapon of mass destruction to exact revenge on the Forerunner for destroying their race.
What? Do you have proof of this?

Also, I seem to be the only one who has made this connection, but aren't the Prisoner at Charum Hakkor and the Gravemind on in the same? As I understand it, the Flood was nothing more than a disease that caused mutation, like super rabies or something. Fairly easy to get rid of if you are willing to make the sacrifice. But it wasn't until the Prisoner was released by the test firing of the Halo at Charum Hakkor and escaped to, presumably, where ever the remnants of the Flood went, that the Flood became the intergalactic parasite that we know of today.

  • 03.11.2011 10:06 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Spartan999

******** If you are still reading and are concerned about spoilers, you are dumb ********


Posted by: switch 104 sv
The Precursor created the Flood as a biological weapon of mass destruction to exact revenge on the Forerunner for destroying their race.
What? Do you have proof of this?


Try reading the end of the book where the Prisoner makes his speech.

"We meet again, young one. I am the last of those who gave you breath and shape and form, millions of years ago. I am the last of those your kind rose up against and ruthlessly destroyed. I am the last Precursor. And our answer is at hand."

Also, I seem to be the only one who has made this connection, but aren't the Prisoner at Charum Hakkor and the Gravemind on in the same?

You obviously aren't around this place much. Dozens of people are basing theories on this possibility.

As I understand it, the Flood was nothing more than a disease that caused mutation, like super rabies or something. Fairly easy to get rid of if you are willing to make the sacrifice. But it wasn't until the Prisoner was released by the test firing of the Halo at Charum Hakkor and escaped to, presumably, where ever the remnants of the Flood went, that the Flood became the intergalactic parasite that we know of today.

No.

Humanity discovered a cure for the Flood during the time they were at war with them, this cure was destroyed by humanity before the Forerunners devolved them.

  • 03.11.2011 10:16 AM PDT

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Posted by: ajw34307
Try reading the end of the book where the Prisoner makes his speech.

"We meet again, young one. I am the last of those who gave you breath and shape and form, millions of years ago. I am the last of those your kind rose up against and ruthlessly destroyed. I am the last Precursor. And our answer is at hand."
First of all, you could try using a less condescending tone and you might come off as less of a prick.

I see no indication in that quote that the Flood was manufactured by the Precursors as a weapon against the Forerunners.

Posted by: ajw34307
No.

Humanity discovered a cure for the Flood during the time they were at war with them, this cure was destroyed by humanity before the Forerunners devolved them.
How is that a no? Your statement has nothing to do with what I said.
As I understand it, the Flood was nothing more than a disease that caused mutation, like super rabies or something. Fairly easy to get rid of if you are willing to make the sacrifice.I'm pretty certain this is true. The cure they found was to sacrifice a third of their population by introducing destructive genes and placing them in the path of the flood. Like I said, easy to get rid of if you are willing to make the sacrifice.
But it wasn't until the Prisoner was released by the test firing of the Halo at Charum Hakkor and escaped to, presumably, where ever the remnants of the Flood went, that the Flood became the intergalactic parasite that we know of today.This is where the theory about the Prisoner and the Gravemind being the same thing comes into play. After escaping, the Prisoner ran across the remnants of the Flood. Rather than be infected like a victim, it 'took control' in a way, becoming the Gravemind. This fundamentally changed the Flood. For support of this, I offer a quote from the last page:
Somewhere in the humans' awakened memory lay our last hope of defeating the flood, which was even now raveging world after world, system afeter system-more hideous by far than it had ever been a thousand years before.
More sophisticated, more devious. More vital. And soon to acquire a new Master, if we did not act quickly-if we did not locate the lost installation and the former captive.

It's obvious that the Precursors, or at least the Prisoner, knew something about the Flood that was so horrifying that the Humans who inquired about it committed suicide rather than live with the knowledge. But the Flood being a biological weapon hardly seems suicide worthy. Yes, the Prisoner was familiar with the Flood, but is the Flood a creation of the Precursors? There is, as of yet, no evidence of that.


Posted by: ajw34307
Try reading the end of the book...
You obviously aren't around this place much.

No.
Is this the way you talk to all strangers, or are you just having a bad day?

[Edited on 03.11.2011 12:30 PM PST]

  • 03.11.2011 12:27 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: Spartan999
I see no indication in that quote that the Flood was manufactured by the Precursors as a weapon against the Forerunners.


"Our answer" obviously means the Precursor's response to the Forerunner's slaughter of their species, and "is at hand" means that that response is happening now. What major event was taking place during the time of the book? The Flood's reappearance and attack on Forerunner colonies, the start of the war and their destruction. What else could the Captive be talking about?

  • 03.11.2011 1:58 PM PDT

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Posted by: switch 104 sv
Posted by: Spartan999
I see no indication in that quote that the Flood was manufactured by the Precursors as a weapon against the Forerunners.


"Our answer" obviously means the Precursor's response to the Forerunner's slaughter of their species, and "is at hand" means that that response is happening now. What major event was taking place during the time of the book? The Flood's reappearance and attack on Forerunner colonies, the start of the war and their destruction. What else could the Captive be talking about?

Well, yeah, obviously he is talking about getting revenge on the Forerunners, and he is obviously going to use the Flood to that end. But how does that indicate that the Flood was created by the Precursors?

  • 03.11.2011 2:10 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: Spartan999
Posted by: switch 104 sv
Posted by: Spartan999
I see no indication in that quote that the Flood was manufactured by the Precursors as a weapon against the Forerunners.


"Our answer" obviously means the Precursor's response to the Forerunner's slaughter of their species, and "is at hand" means that that response is happening now. What major event was taking place during the time of the book? The Flood's reappearance and attack on Forerunner colonies, the start of the war and their destruction. What else could the Captive be talking about?

Well, yeah, obviously he is talking about getting revenge on the Forerunners, and he is obviously going to use the Flood to that end. But how does that indicate that the Flood was created by the Precursors?

Well seeing as the Flood started life out as a powder of spores it's obvious that someone created it and put samples in jars, put the jars in ships and sent them into our galaxy from somewhere outside our galaxy. Who else would have the means and more importantly motivation to do such a thing? I haven't read it in a while so I may be mistaken but I think the encyclopaedia states that the Precursor could travel between galaxies, so they had bot the means and motivation. On top of that, how else would he know what was going to happen if he was not somehow involved? He had been locked up for 50,000 years(?).

  • 03.11.2011 2:32 PM PDT
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soo...The precursors were small cat-sized intelligent beings who got infected, and now go on a galactic scavenger hunt for civilizations? Nice theory.

  • 03.11.2011 3:00 PM PDT

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Posted by: switch 104 sv
Well seeing as the Flood started life out as a powder of spores it's obvious that someone created it and put samples in jars, put the jars in ships and sent them into our galaxy from somewhere outside our galaxy.
The powder was found to be "...organic, yet neither alive nor capable of life." To call these spores is really reaching.

Posted by: switch 104 sv
Who else would have the means...to do such a thing?
I have no idea, but to assume that the Precursors did it is again reaching for what you want to be true, not looking for the truth.

Posted by: switch 104 sv
...motivation.
The Precursors were long dead before the automated ships found their way into our galaxy. You could say that this plan was set in place before the Precursors were wiped out, but that is for the story tellers to decide, not us.

Posted by: switch 104 sv
On top of that, how else would he know what was going to happen if he was not somehow involved? He had been locked up for 50,000 years(?).
That's 50,000 years he had to sit and do nothing but observe what was going on around him. But what do you mean by, "...what was going to happen...?"

  • 03.11.2011 3:05 PM PDT


Posted by: switch 104 sv
Posted by: Spartan999
I see no indication in that quote that the Flood was manufactured by the Precursors as a weapon against the Forerunners.


"Our answer" obviously means the Precursor's response to the Forerunner's slaughter of their species, and "is at hand" means that that response is happening now. What major event was taking place during the time of the book? The Flood's reappearance and attack on Forerunner colonies, the start of the war and their destruction. What else could the Captive be talking about?


I'm reserving judgement on the Captive's validity regarding the Forerunners' total genocide of the Precursors until part 2 or 3 of Cryptum.

If he is the Gravemind, which he seems to be, then we can't really trust him then, can we? The Forerunners may have driven the Precursors into another galaxy, but I really can't see them getting wiped out.

Then there's the great journey you have to consider. I just don't see the Forerunners wiping them out.

  • 03.11.2011 3:19 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com


Posted by: Spartan999
The powder was found to be "...organic, yet neither alive nor capable of life." To call these spores is really reaching.
"Spore" may be the wrong term but my point still stands.

I have no idea, but to assume that the Precursors did it is again reaching for what you want to be true, not looking for the truth.
What reason is there to think otherwise? They had a reason to want to get revenge. What would be the purpose of introducing yet another species/superpower to the story when we already have the Precursor who still remain an undeveloped part of the fiction.

The Precursors were long dead before the automated ships found their way into our galaxy. You could say that this plan was set in place before the Precursors were wiped out, but that is for the story tellers to decide, not us.
You answered yourself there. There is also the possibility that the Captive saying he was the last Precursor was referring to our Galaxy. But like you said, the writers will decide.

That's 50,000 years he had to sit and do nothing but observe what was going on around him. But what do you mean by, "...what was going to happen...?"
How could he observe when he was trapped within a cylindrical prison? And by "what was going to happen" I mean how else would he know that from outside the galaxy the Flood would come and destroy all life.

[Edited on 03.11.2011 3:20 PM PST]

  • 03.11.2011 3:20 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Spartan999
Posted by: ajw34307
Try reading the end of the book where the Prisoner makes his speech.

"We meet again, young one. I am the last of those who gave you breath and shape and form, millions of years ago. I am the last of those your kind rose up against and ruthlessly destroyed. I am the last Precursor. And our answer is at hand."
First of all, you could try using a less condescending tone and you might come off as less of a prick.


I won't put you under false pretenses, I am a prick, I can gladly accept that.

I see no indication in that quote that the Flood was manufactured by the Precursors as a weapon against the Forerunners.

"And our answer is at hand."

Their answer is the Flood, designed for the purpose of destroying the Forerunners in return for them killing their creators.

Posted by: ajw34307
No.

Humanity discovered a cure for the Flood during the time they were at war with them, this cure was destroyed by humanity before the Forerunners devolved them.


How is that a no? Your statement has nothing to do with what I said.

As I understand it, the Flood was nothing more than a disease that caused mutation, like super rabies or something. Fairly easy to get rid of if you are willing to make the sacrifice.I'm pretty certain this is true. The cure they found was to sacrifice a third of their population by introducing destructive genes and placing them in the path of the flood. Like I said, easy to get rid of if you are willing to make the sacrifice.


I was addressing your claim that the Flood infection was "fairly easy to get rid of". No, it wasn't.

But it wasn't until the Prisoner was released by the test firing of the Halo at Charum Hakkor and escaped to, presumably, where ever the remnants of the Flood went, that the Flood became the intergalactic parasite that we know of today.This is where the theory about the Prisoner and the Gravemind being the same thing comes into play. After escaping, the Prisoner ran across the remnants of the Flood. Rather than be infected like a victim, it 'took control' in a way, becoming the Gravemind. This fundamentally changed the Flood. For support of this, I offer a quote from the last page:
Somewhere in the humans' awakened memory lay our last hope of defeating the flood, which was even now raveging world after world, system afeter system-more hideous by far than it had ever been a thousand years before.
More sophisticated, more devious. More vital. And soon to acquire a new Master, if we did not act quickly-if we did not locate the lost installation and the former captive.

It's obvious that the Precursors, or at least the Prisoner, knew something about the Flood that was so horrifying that the Humans who inquired about it committed suicide rather than live with the knowledge. But the Flood being a biological weapon hardly seems suicide worthy. Yes, the Prisoner was familiar with the Flood, but is the Flood a creation of the Precursors? There is, as of yet, no evidence of that.


I think it's blindingly obvious that the Flood were created by the Precursors, and that the Gravemind and the Prisoner are the same person. Lines like "I am a monument to all your sins" fit perfectly with this as an explanation, since humanity inherited the Mantle the Forerunners stole from the Precursors "a father's sins (Forerunners) pass to his son (humans)".


Posted by: ajw34307
Try reading the end of the book...
You obviously aren't around this place much.

No.
Is this the way you talk to all strangers, or are you just having a bad day?


A bit of both.

[Edited on 03.11.2011 3:34 PM PST]

  • 03.11.2011 3:34 PM PDT

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Posted by: switch 104 sv
What reason is there to think otherwise? They had a reason to want to get revenge. What would be the purpose of introducing yet another species/superpower to the story when we already have the Precursor who still remain an undeveloped part of the fiction.
The ships may very well have been of Precursor origin, or may have belonged to another space faring species, like the Prophets. Again, we have no clue. But you can't just pull a rabbit out of your hat and assume that they were sent by the Precursors with the intent of using an extremely simple organic molecule to infect and destroy an empire, perhaps millions of years after they were supposedly eradicated.

Posted by: switch 104 sv
How could he observe when he was trapped within a cylindrical prison? And by "what was going to happen" I mean how else would he know that from outside the galaxy the Flood would come and destroy all life.
Communication was possible with him, wasn't it? He undoubtedly could at least observe some very basic events that were going on around him.

Who said he knew that the Flood would come to destroy all life? He knew about the Flood, but that is all we know. And he told this to the humans after the Infection had done its worst. So it's not like revealing to them that it is a biological weapon that causes mutation into a monster would be a surprise to them, and I certainly don't think it would shock them into committing suicide.

  • 03.11.2011 3:41 PM PDT

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Posted by: ajw34307
...the Flood, designed for the purpose of destroying the Forerunners in return for them killing their creators.
I think it's blindingly obvious that the Flood were created by the Precursors.
Then would you be so kind as to provide a quote from the book that directly indicates this?

  • 03.11.2011 3:45 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Spartan999
Posted by: ajw34307
...the Flood, designed for the purpose of destroying the Forerunners in return for them killing their creators.
I think it's blindingly obvious that the Flood were created by the Precursors.
Then would you be so kind as to provide a quote from the book that directly indicates this?


I am not going to go on a treasure hunt through about 300 pages just to prove a point to someone I do not know. However, I would direct you again to the Prisoner's speech to the Didact saying that "this is our answer".

In a way, you have supported my claim. You say that the Gravemind and the Prisoner are most likely the same person, if indeed the case then of course the answer is going to be the Flood...

  • 03.11.2011 3:48 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: Spartan999
Posted by: switch 104 sv
What reason is there to think otherwise? They had a reason to want to get revenge. What would be the purpose of introducing yet another species/superpower to the story when we already have the Precursor who still remain an undeveloped part of the fiction.[/quote]The ships may very well have been of Precursor origin, or may have belonged to another space faring species, like the Prophets. Again, we have no clue. But you can't just pull a rabbit out of your hat and assume that they were sent by the Precursors with the intent of using an extremely simple organic molecule to infect and destroy an empire, perhaps millions of years after they were supposedly eradicated.

I'm not pulling a rabbit out of my hat. I made a logical assumption, that is all. It may be right, it may be wrong but at the minute it seems most likely.

Posted by: switch 104 sv
How could he observe when he was trapped within a cylindrical prison? And by "what was going to happen" I mean how else would he know that from outside the galaxy the Flood would come and destroy all life.
Communication was possible with him, wasn't it? He undoubtedly could at least observe some very basic events that were going on around him.

Communication was only possible when a specific device was used from the outside of his prison. Even when the device opened the top, the cell itself was inside other facilities. I doubt the Captive saw anything but a ceiling and whoever was looking in.

Who said he knew that the Flood would come to destroy all life?
I already explained my logic for this; "And our answer is at hand". He knew they were coming because he spoke to the humans, the first victims of the Flood.

He knew about the Flood, but that is all we know. And he told this to the humans after the Infection had done its worst. So it's not like revealing to them that it is a biological weapon that causes mutation into a monster would be a surprise to them, and I certainly don't think it would shock them into committing suicide.
I never suggested that telling the humans about the Flood was what caused them to kill themselves.



[Edited on 03.11.2011 3:59 PM PST]

  • 03.11.2011 3:59 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan999
quote from the book that directly indicates this?


It is revealed in Halo: Cryptum that the prisoner on a Pre-Human world is infact that the last Precursor. It also reveals that every other Precursor had been ruthlessly killed in a Forerunner-Precursor war almost 150,000 years before the events of Halo and that their answer is at hand - implying that a Proto-Flood form (described as a fine dust, contained in hundreds of glass cylinders) were created as revenge or as a failsafe.

Its not confirmed but its implied. Got this from the Halo Wiki Precursor

  • 03.11.2011 4:04 PM PDT

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Posted by: ix forte xi
Halo Wiki
You have committed a grave sin.

Posted by: ix forte xi
implying that a Proto-Flood form (described as a fine dust, contained in hundreds of glass cylinders) were created as revenge or as a failsafe.
I see absolutely no indication of this. As far as the text is concerned, the powder and the Precursors are unrelated.

Posted by: ajw34307
I am not going to go on a treasure hunt through about 300 pages just to prove a point to someone I do not know.
I don't mean to be rude, but don't make the argument if you are not even willing to support it.

Posted by: ajw34307
However, I would direct you again to the Prisoner's speech to the Didact saying that "this is our answer".
I'll tell you the same thing I told switch: Yes it is obvious what the Prisoner meant by that statement, that He will use the Flood to get revenge on the Forerunners, but that still has nothing to do with the claim that it was created by the Precursors. The powder's origin is still unknown, and to assume that it originated from the Precursors is not a leap I am willing to make until we have further proof.

Posted by: ajw34307
In a way, you have supported my claim. You say that the Gravemind and the Prisoner are most likely the same person, if indeed the case then of course the answer is going to be the Flood...
Nice try, but not quite. My theory was that the Prisoner became the Gravemind. "Became" being the key word. I suspect that he ran across the Flood, was infected, but rather than become a victim, he became the Parasite's new master, making it something far more sinister than just the disease it had been before.

  • 03.11.2011 5:56 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: Spartan999
I'll tell you the same thing I told switch: Yes it is obvious what the Prisoner meant by that statement, that He will use the Flood to get revenge on the Forerunners, but that still has nothing to do with the claim that it was created by the Precursors. The powder's origin is still unknown, and to assume that it originated from the Precursors is not a leap I am willing to make until we have further proof.

"And our answer is at hand." "Our" as in ownership in the plural.

[Edited on 03.11.2011 6:13 PM PST]

  • 03.11.2011 6:13 PM PDT

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