- StealthSlasher2
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- Exalted Mythic Member
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Posted by: Recovery 25
ok here is someone else's post to your argument on the other thread which was pretty much the same as it is on here.
Let's see here.
It's common knowledge that Reach fell on the 30th. However, how could you amass roughly one hundred ships in a matter of hours and expect them all to be battle ready. Slipspace isn't lightspeed. It would be massive luck that roughly a hundred ships were within hours of Reach at the time. Dot does say that 60% of the UNSC fleet were on their way as of the 12th, but where in the book does it say that the entire UNSC didn't know about the invasion until it basically happened? The glassing doesn't begin until the 23rd and they only glass high value or high population areas. You are somewhat correct though, Ferrion did detect that the Fleet of Particular Justice were on their way and all ships in the system as well as those in the Jericho and Tantalus systems were ordered to rendezvous at Reach.
This is a bit confused to me, but I will answer as simply as possible. Yes I do think that the Pillar of Autumn could not be informed about an event, but the rest of the fleet would be. It is easily possible that a single ship could miss out on a transmission and not know about something, however, The Pillar of Autumn had to have known for it participated in the Battle of Reach. The Pillar of Autumn is just a refit Halcyon-class vessel. I think the UNSC Trafalgar as a Super Carrier would be way more important than a tiny Halcyon-class vessel. The Spartans were valuable assets, but when it came to giant space battles they weren't useful in the least. It would be a huge blow to the UNSC if the ship they were on were destroyed in a space battle.
Now you can't just assume that the entire UNSC ground forces including the Marines and Army would have only one Red Team which were made up of a top secret military project of super soldiers that the vast majority of the UNSC soldiers never actually saw. Also wasn't Red Team's duty to protect one of the platforms that supplied power to the Orbital MAC platforms? Why would they be on civilian duty? Reach had its own army as well. Given there was a Gautlet and an Echo, which aren't Spartan teams, who do you know that these aren't just squads of Army?
You also contradict yourself. "Complete bull. In the book the unsc was unaware that reach was being attacked until the 30th." You say the UNSC weren't aware of the Covenant on Reach until the 30th, but then you say. "You are daft if you think that an entire fleet attacking reach went unnoticed until the 30th." Given these are your opinions until you can back them up with some proof you just debunked one of your own opinions.
All of my information is gathered from http://www.halopedian.com/Fall_Of_Reach#July_24.2C_2552, http://www.halopedian.com/Battle_of_reach#Space_battle, and http://www.halopedian.com/Halo_fall_of_reach#2010_bonus_conte nt
Now here's my interpretation. Everyone says the Battle of Reach happened in one day and the planet fell on the 30th. The Fleet of Particular Justice, the 314 Covenant ships that destroyed the UNSC blockade to Reach, didn't arrive until the 30th. The main battle fleet that fought the Fleet of Particular Justice, including 52 ships with the Pillar of Autumn included, did not arrive until the 29th or 30th. The fleet did send two fleets ahead of their advance including the Supercarrier and the Battlecruisers that glassed the planet. They were there to soften the planet and gather data on its current ability to defend. There wasn't even a space battle until the 30th, the battle between the Covenant Corvette and UNSC Savannah barely counted as a space battle. It was just a skirmish between two ships. The main part of the Battle of Reach barely occurred in the game so the book's canon is barely even touched. The only part that could be said was skewed was the Pillar of Autumn landing on Reach and that argument was already resolved in this thread stating it was there for refitting and refueling.
Ever thought about thinking for yourself when posing counter points than relying on others?
There are some discrepancies with the train of thought you quoted.
First Underlined Section
First off we know they're Spartan teams. Why? Because if the person who wrote that paid attention to the dialogue he or she would've realized that Jun inquiries were about Spartan teams whether or not it was true Spartans were being deployed for evac operations. as Kat would comment on:
Jun: Sir, that true about Gauntlet, Red, and Echo teams assigned to civilian evac ops?
Carter: Those are senior level communique..
Kat: I hear what I hear, point is why put Spartans on defensive deployments?
So for that first bit it's already clear that they're not Army troops otherwise there would be no point for Jun to ask that question and for Kat to ultimately respond about those units being Spartans. Why would they be on civilian duty? Good question considering Jun and Kat are questioning the same thing.
Now to drive the point home that it is Red team of the Spartan IIs is the fact that they ARE present on Reach during this time AND have not been assigned to defend the generators. Based on Halsey's Journal, the Spartans stationed on the Leviathan return to Reach on August 12th following the battle of Sigma Octanus. During this time the UNSC makes its push against the Covenant forces on Viery. The super carrier makes its appearance, and on top of that the recall of UNSC ships is made in response to the super carrier's appearance. At this point there is no reason for the Spartan II's to leave Reach, and they're stuck to do whatever missions they are given in defense of the planet. From now until August 26 they are still active and all accounted for. August 26th is when the Red Flag briefing takes place meaning they have yet to leave on the Autumn nor have they died in the defense of the orbital generators. Thus placing Red team, Blue team, and whatever miscellaneous Spartan III units present on Reach during the time NA was under attack somewhere on the planet doing something.
Could there be other Spartan teams such as those from the Spartan IIIs be given a Red team designation? Sure, but it wouldn't change that the Spartan II Red team is still on the planet being assigned some mission while Reach is under attack.
Second Underlined Section
Another lovely point of contention brought up thanks to conflicts with the game, the book, and the journal.
Going back to the August 26th date. Red Flag's briefing. The Autumn still has yet to leave Reach because the briefing had yet to be carried out and the Spartans had yet to be deployed there. At this point in the game, Noble Team is only now being evacuated from the charred and battered remains of NA.
Full sized Covenant cruisers freely get to planet side and are glassing portions of the planet. The UNSC fleet is scattered (little more on that later), and yet what's being said here is that a UNSC cruiser on a high priority mission takes off from this partially burning planet....then turning back?
Please do make a point as to how that would make sense and "fit" in the canon.
Third Underlined Section
60% of the UNSC fleet was recalled to Reach on August 12. The first battle group was to arrive in 48 hours since that recall. That sets the first battle group's arrival on the 14th. That's very same day the super carrier would be destroyed while a larger Covenant fleet arrives. So are you meaning to tell me that from the 14th till the 30th, no space battle occurred at all?
Yet what happens? August 23rd, the return of Six to the frontlines. NA is under attack and its populace are being evacuated. A sitrep from a pilot reveals that in the two weeks since Six landed in the middle of nowhere that the UNSC fleet was scattered and forced to pull back. Furthermore as stated earlier for the second point, Covenant cruisers are able to enter Reach's atmosphere. That said it's indicative that there was a space battle between this time period over this particular sector of Reach, one that the UNSC lost and was forced to abandon.
This turn of events now puts into question how and where did the UNSC manage to safely regroup their space forces for one concentrated attack/defense of Reach on the 30th if that's what you're going for, and why would such a attack/defense be mounted given the state the planet is in now by this point with planet overrun by hostile ground forces.
How the MAC platforms and groundside generators managed to stay operation and relevant in this time span is also put up to question.
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You see, the depth in making the book and game "fit" is vast, and unless all the points can be addressed there cannot be a strong argument in support of the "it fits" side. That in itself is a difficult task because the littlest changes can still affect everything else that subsequently follows. Bungie was probably right when they said that Halo:Reach fits canon like a puzzle, but it seems to be one that no one here has been able to complete.