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This topic has moved here: Subject: What if the Brutes didn't exist?
  • Subject: What if the Brutes didn't exist?
Subject: What if the Brutes didn't exist?

Well, I'm sure the elites would catch on after charging up to a human and finding out he has no relics on him.

Brutes didn't and kept thinking they had artifacts on them.

  • 03.13.2011 9:53 AM PDT
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I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.

Yeah, Brutes aren't known for intelligence. Elites are smart, they blew up a Brute fleet that was 3 times bigger than theirs, and they did that with minimal losses.

  • 03.13.2011 10:44 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, I'm sure the elites would catch on after charging up to a human and finding out he has no relics on him.


This makes no sense.

Exclusivly using this reason, Why would the Elites catch on without the Brutes, but never catch when the Brutes were around?

  • 03.13.2011 10:56 AM PDT
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I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.


Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, I'm sure the elites would catch on after charging up to a human and finding out he has no relics on him.


This makes no sense.

Exclusivly using this reason, Why would the Elites catch on without the Brutes, but never catch when the Brutes were around?


I don't understand his reasoning either.

  • 03.13.2011 10:58 AM PDT
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Posted by: Caaaarrrl
I don't understand his reasoning either.


You mean my reasoning or DaeFaron's?

  • 03.13.2011 11:57 AM PDT


Posted by: Caaaarrrl

Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, I'm sure the elites would catch on after charging up to a human and finding out he has no relics on him.


This makes no sense.

Exclusivly using this reason, Why would the Elites catch on without the Brutes, but never catch when the Brutes were around?


I don't understand his reasoning either.


A: Elites were not at the planet when humans were first discovered, Brutes were.
B: If there was no Brutes, it would be Elites there.
C: This takes place before Truth declares that humanity is an affront to the Covenant and must be purged.

  • 03.13.2011 12:38 PM PDT


Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, I'm sure the elites would catch on after charging up to a human and finding out he has no relics on him.


This makes no sense.

Exclusivly using this reason, Why would the Elites catch on without the Brutes, but never catch when the Brutes were around?


Because the Elites didn't meet Humanity first hand until war was declared. If the Brutes did not exist or were not in the Covenant it would have been the Elites sent to Harvest, and they would have figured out that something was screwy with the Luminary reading so many objects when they couldn't find any.

In the actual they didn't catch on because they were not there at Harvest and did not encounter humanity first hand, they only had what the Prophets said, which was "new race desecrating Forerunner stuff, time to go to war again, boys."

  • 03.13.2011 12:40 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, I'm sure the elites would catch on after charging up to a human and finding out he has no relics on him.


This makes no sense.

Exclusivly using this reason, Why would the Elites catch on without the Brutes, but never catch when the Brutes were around?


Because the Elites didn't meet Humanity first hand until war was declared. If the Brutes did not exist or were not in the Covenant it would have been the Elites sent to Harvest, and they would have figured out that something was screwy with the Luminary reading so many objects when they couldn't find any.

In the actual they didn't catch on because they were not there at Harvest and did not encounter humanity first hand, they only had what the Prophets said, which was "new race desecrating Forerunner stuff, time to go to war again, boys."


Indeed, and I remember something in Contact Harvest which said Truth had the Luminary 'reprogrammed' to track humans(After Harvest). Not sure on that part.

However, yes I fully believe Elites would have noticed something was up, unlike the Brutes who simply raged more and more and tried killing everything.

[Edited on 03.13.2011 12:42 PM PDT]

  • 03.13.2011 12:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Indeed, and I remember something in Contact Harvest which said Truth had the Luminary 'reprogrammed' to track humans(After Harvest). Not sure on that part.

However, yes I fully believe Elites would have noticed something was up, unlike the Brutes who simply raged more and more and tried killing everything.


You are giving the Elites way too much credit.

The Prophets would have simply made another lie, and the Elites would have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker. You are talking about Prophets, a race of master liars. A good lie is easier to believe than the truth.

Even if the Elites were more skeptical than most races in the Covenant, and even if they analyzed the notion of all those Forerunner readings as being humans, and even if they brought it to the attention of the Prophets...the Prophets would have blamed it on a faulty luminary, thrown the word heresy around, some Grunts would have been executed for installing Luminaries incorrectly, and the war goes on. This is not absurd or a wild theory. Based on how the Covenant works...you could surmise this as being likely in a universe with no Brutes.

You give the Elites too much credit in this regard. You play them out to be all knowing and infallible, when, in fact, they followed the faith, for the most part, devoutly.

"They would have known...they always know what is best!"

And conveniently, you mention how the Luminaries were reprogrammed. This and that was reprogrammed! I wonder how long that took to reprogram ALL those Luminaries. There must have been tens of thousands, if not, hundreds of thousands of them. Time to burn the midnight oil on this one.

Posted by: Halopedian
Luminaries are of great religious significance to the Covenant and tampering with them was punishable by death. A Holy Writ, essentially the Covenant equivalent of folk wisdom, concerns the Luminaries, namely, "A Luminary does not lie."


I wonder...is it ever recorded in the Halo Canon...if, and where the Elites directly, and flat out, denied and questioned the findings of a Luminary? I don't think they ever did. Why would they do it in a universe without the Brutes?

Truth even said a Luminary was wrong when it identified the humans. Didn't the Elites buy the whole "Luminary is wrong" song and dance from Truth? I am pretty sure they did...because not until like...26...27 years after the war started did the Elites finally leave the Covenant...and only because of what happened on Delta Halo, at least that was the biggest reason, in my opinion anyway.

But yeah...the Elites would not have known any better. They would have made the same mistakes and, with no Brutes, there would have been no changing of the guard, no arbiter betrayal, etc.

Too much credit to the Elites. They are not even a race of scientific minds, at least, not great scientific minds. They are a warrior race above all else. They may have great military prowess, but that's it.

THey would have made the same errors.

  • 03.13.2011 1:38 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

All of humanity would have been obliterated by the Sangheili and the rest of the Covenant, then Truth would have ignited the Holy Rings. Not a very interesting ending, but without the Schism, that's what would have happened.

  • 03.13.2011 1:42 PM PDT
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I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.


Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: Caaaarrrl
I don't understand his reasoning either.


You mean my reasoning or DaeFaron's?


DaeFaron's.

  • 03.13.2011 4:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: Metroidman42
SHUT THE -blam!- UP BRUTES SUCK


What we have here...is a typical troll who loves Elites and hates on Brutes

Notice the low IQ, and the full caps-lock.

This behavior is indicative of an Elite fan...someone who is such a xenophile for Elites, he/she will descend into a fit of madness over any comment insulting the object of their personal desires.
dont lump me in with that idiot, when you look at gameplay brute are either idiots(halo2) or basicly elites with different skins(halo3/odst and reach)they used the same behaviors or they just charged constantly

  • 03.13.2011 7:03 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

This is not a Brute vs Elite thread. The Canon already solved this issue with The Return. Elites eventually drive brutes back to the stone age again. Obviously Elites are superior. Now back to the original topic.

Without the existence of the Brutes, Humanity would be eliminated, undoubtedly. Now the real question here is if the Sangheili would see the Prophets are lying or not in time. If they did discover this faleshood before the lighting of the rings, The Sangheili would have had the man power to overthrow the Prophets, more than likely with the help of the Hunters considering their friendly relations. Should they not discover the truth in time, they would ignite the relics.

  • 03.13.2011 7:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: matman25402
This is not a Brute vs Elite thread. The Canon already solved this issue with The Return. Elites eventually drive brutes back to the stone age again. Obviously Elites are superior. Now back to the original topic.


I think the Brutes just started fighting amongst themselves...I don't think they went to the stone age again.

  • 03.13.2011 8:18 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

The war is still on going as of 2559. Some Sangheili Shipmasters still fight the Brutes in scattered skirmishes here and there, but the majority of Sangheili pulled back to defend the Homeworld after their ship count started to drop too low. The Brutes are still space capable (As in they have ships, not necessarily the ability to produce them [And most likely not]), they are just not considered a very serious threat due to their lack of cohesion.

  • 03.13.2011 8:45 PM PDT
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I don't remember making an Elites vs Brutes thread. I thought this was about if the Brutes didn't exist.

  • 03.14.2011 3:12 AM PDT

I would like to be a Mythic Member, or a mod.

REALLY BAD. I believe I deserve it, I am very loyal to the dear Bungie forums and want to keep everything in tip-top shape. Its always a real pleasure to be on the forums and I want to be recognized here.

Posted by: dahuterschuter
Well the Covenant would have remained intact without the Elites splitting off and none of the events after Halo: CE would have been the same. Humanity may very well have lost the war without the Elites on their side.


This.
With the death of a prophet, thats what removed the Elites from power and when the Brutes and prophets started killing those of the council. If it were not for the brutes, humanity would have had an unfortunate end.

  • 03.14.2011 4:22 AM PDT


Posted by: Sierra 1993DJC
I don't remember making an Elites vs Brutes thread. I thought this was about if the Brutes didn't exist.


The conversation about Elites and Brutes was started as a theory about what would have happened if the Brutes were not in the Covenant, as it probably would have been the Elites sent to Harvest. I believe *goes back to check facts* the thread was somewhat derailed from its original purpose by a certain Brute fanboi ;P

[Edited on 03.14.2011 7:59 AM PDT]

  • 03.14.2011 7:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: Sierra 1993DJC
I don't remember making an Elites vs Brutes thread. I thought this was about if the Brutes didn't exist.


The conversation about Elites and Brutes was started as a theory about what would have happened if the Brutes were not in the Covenant, as it probably would have been the Elites sent to Harvest. I believe *goes back to check facts* the thread was somewhat derailed from its original purpose by a certain Brute fanboi ;P


Actually...that thread was a thread discussing Brutes in general...and it was ELITE fanboys that derailed it., and kept derailing it after either the OP or myself put it back on track.

*Smacks OrderedComa in the back of the head due to his vast stupidity*

See...I can make emotes too...idiot.

  • 03.14.2011 12:02 PM PDT

Well, I can say from what I've read, the elite 'fanboys' didn't show up until somebody went on about Brutes being far better then Elites and not really backing it up...

  • 03.14.2011 12:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, I can say from what I've read, the elite 'fanboys' didn't show up until somebody went on about Brutes being far better then Elites and not really backing it up...


Oh I backed it up alright. While I backed it up with things like logic and speculative analysis based on established precedents, you guys threw schlock, written by terrible writers who were too lazy to develop a good story.

While I admit I did not have the "advantage" of those terribly written and developed books, which are all conflict in terms of canon, on my side, I did have common sense, and the power to think logically.

I think Logic and thinking power is worth more than garbage.

  • 03.14.2011 12:57 PM PDT


Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: OrderedComa
Posted by: Sierra 1993DJC
I don't remember making an Elites vs Brutes thread. I thought this was about if the Brutes didn't exist.


The conversation about Elites and Brutes was started as a theory about what would have happened if the Brutes were not in the Covenant, as it probably would have been the Elites sent to Harvest. I believe *goes back to check facts* the thread was somewhat derailed from its original purpose by a certain Brute fanboi ;P


Actually...that thread was a thread discussing Brutes in general...and it was ELITE fanboys that derailed it., and kept derailing it after either the OP or myself put it back on track.

*Smacks OrderedComa in the back of the head due to his vast stupidity*

See...I can make emotes too...idiot.


I was talking about this thread, not the "Halo Reach Brutes: What Happened?" or whatever it was called. The guy was asking how it turned into an "Elites vs. Brutes" debate, and I told him what i thought.

  • 03.14.2011 1:07 PM PDT

Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man.
But sooner or later, the man who wins
Is the man who thinks he can.

Halo 2 would've sucked.
Humanity would've been ass-raped.
And Halo 3 would've been so much better. I've fought more challenging enemies in Lego Star Wars. Hell, even the Flood are better enemies. And I hate the Flood.

[Edited on 03.14.2011 1:34 PM PDT]

  • 03.14.2011 1:32 PM PDT
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I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.


Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, I can say from what I've read, the elite 'fanboys' didn't show up until somebody went on about Brutes being far better then Elites and not really backing it up...


Oh I backed it up alright. While I backed it up with things like logic and speculative analysis based on established precedents, you guys threw schlock, written by terrible writers who were too lazy to develop a good story.

While I admit I did not have the "advantage" of those terribly written and developed books, which are all conflict in terms of canon, on my side, I did have common sense, and the power to think logically.

I think Logic and thinking power is worth more than garbage.


I'm sorry to say this, but I heard no logic coming from you. All I heard was Brute fanboyism.

  • 03.14.2011 1:47 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Posted by: Naked Crook
Posted by: matman25402
This is not a Brute vs Elite thread. The Canon already solved this issue with The Return. Elites eventually drive brutes back to the stone age again. Obviously Elites are superior. Now back to the original topic.


I think the Brutes just started fighting amongst themselves...I don't think they went to the stone age again.
It's clearly stated in The Return that the Sangheili were the ones who brought the brutes down to near extinction. Now once again, back on topic. And you claim your the one not derailing this thread.

  • 03.15.2011 8:33 PM PDT