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Subject: The next Halo - how do you want it?

This is a long post, if you only want to know which direction I think the next Halo game should take, go straight to the last two paragraphs.

We all know 343i are most probably working on a new Halo game. Playing on the new Defiant map pack for Reach, thinking of how Certain Affinity made a great job - better than Bungie for the most part - I began to find more hope for non--blam!- to-be Halo games. And also thinking of all Reach's problems in the campaign, I decided to make a thread to discuss what we'd want to see most in Halo 4 besides playing as the Chief again and continuing the story.

Now, I think one of the main concerns - at leas to me - is for Halo to not take the COD road, as it kind of already did. Halo needs to change. ODST was supposed to play differently, about playing ODSTs and having a relatively fresh gameplay. Yes you are weaker, but that's basically it. Rookie still incredibly plays similarly to the Chief in Halo CE with the "stamina". That was a first missed opportunity - besides not giving us incredibly formulatic missions - their "30 seconds of fun". In fact, I think Bungie's biggest fault was trying to recreate that particular type of encounters. That gave us mini-missions which are nothing more than stripped down Halo 3 ones, which while quite fun, were still streamlined Halo CE missions. Don't get me wrong, the game was good, but it can't compete with Halo CE.

Then came Halo Reach, where they tried to make the ultimate Halo game. But then, we already had FOUR Halo games with practically unchanged gameplay, Bungie NEEDED to up the ante. So they gave us armor abilities and space combat, both which did nothing more than being a bitter tease to the game's potential. The armor abilities changed nothing on the fundamentals of the gameplay. It did spice up some campaign moments, but just looking at the jet-pack platformer bit of Exodus, and it's clear it was way too short. When you start to get a hang of it and finding the encounters fun, it over already. What Bungie needed to do, was doing like any good game when you introduce a new ability; let us get a hang of it, and then make things increasingly more challenging. You should've have jet-packed around more, into more unique level bits.

And comes another of the great problems of Reach, the level design. Instead of making the ultimate Halo, Bungie just made an extremely polished Halo experience with bits of new things, the level design barely doing anything new. Where was the real open ended spaces with different objectives to work on, with different roads to take? You were still taken by the hand. So we keep going through bits we've already been through, having roughly the same experience throughout the game. Space combat was fun, but was too short, tried nothing special and wasn't much more than your usual Halo encounter in space. Take shields off, finish with a headshot and when taking too many hits, hide a bit and then come back. It was the same thing as ground combat or almost. Then you had inside the ship with some low-grav, but it was quite limited and they tried nothing with it. The New Alexandria mission was probably the best thing, but the moment you got off the Falcon it was standard Halo mission fare.

We all like the Halo gameplay, but Bungie's problem was that they tried too much to make Halo gameplay, rather than make good and interesting gameplay. Play Halo CE, play Halo 2 and then play 3, ODST and Reach. Look how the Halo gameplay got standardized, formulated over time, particularly since 3 where they seemed to have found "the way" to make Halo games. Halo 3's game design could've been better, but it was still a bit different than Halo CE's and 2's, but it's with ODST and Reach where they tried nothing to stand out of the now very defined norm.

As much as I like the Halo gameplay, 343 need to at the very least change the way missions are designed almost completely. In fact, I think they also need to change the gameplay. Keep the fundementals - health with shields - but make it play differently. We need some fresh air, or the games will still get increasingly stale, get less good than the last. So encounters have to play differently, levels should be designed differently and FAR, from the "corridor, semi-open space, corridor, semi-open space" that has plagued the Halo series since 3.

And in a way, I think it needs to get back a bit to how Halo CE did some things. Bring back alien worlds - I didn't mind having no alien world, but it would be fun for Halo 4 to go back to some things which helped the game be so good in the first place - bring back LONG missions. Another thing that plagued Reach was how the pacing was all over the place. You were getting into the game, into the environment where you were thrown in, getting immersed and the next moment, you get thrown off somewhere else. In other words, it played too much like a movie. It was as irritating an problematic to the game as the first 30 minutes of The Phantom Menace.

And which makes me think, Halo CE had superior level design to the extremely formulatic one of Reach. Remember The Pillar of Autumn, near the end, you could walk around the corridors, go through shafts, it left space for different approaches despite that part to be brief. Think of Halo, where you were driving in a warthog choosing between 3 places to rescue marines. The Silent Cartographer, which consisted of one island you could drive around getting to one place or the other doing objectives - that's partly what I was talking about when I told of how Halo needs big open spaces with different objectives to do. Or Assault on the Control Room, with the big canyon and bridges that were over it. The level design was very well done here, it intertwined, it made the whole mission, environment feel connected. You could also jump a little segment if you were fast enough to steal a banshee. In the last Halo games, you feel too much as if you always have to go forward, you never really settle a bit somewhere or feel like going through an important place.

Ideally the next Halo game should have semi-sandbox - ie. Far Cry 2 - level design. I said semi, each missions should consist of a relatively big open area, one where you can go from point A to point B in various ways, some more dangerous than others, some longer, shorter, or sometimes there's not much of a difference. Maybe you wouldn't have access to everywhere from the get go, maybe you need to do some things in order to unlock an area. And I think there could be some great dynamic gameplay here. Say you need to go to a certain place; maybe you can take the very long road with nothing special to do, or maybe there's this road with plenty of places you need to unlock, or that one where you have to go over the cliffs, or by the river with a switch or two. Maybe those paths can intertwine, and go from one to the other.

You could also carry items, keycards and such, explosives. They should redefine the Halo gameplay while still making it feel like Halo. I think 343 should also give more subtleties to the gameplay, make the stealth option viable. Make it possible to have Ghost Recon-like encounters where you can get pinned down. So in other words, 343 should make a big change in gameplay, try to do something to bring back life into Halo. Not only that, but make a game that is also different from an FPS point of view. The industry is way too much plagued by copy-cats and developers who don't bother changing things up a bit. I always was more kind to Halo because of the universe and story, but I think Halo has gone past the point where it can stay a good series only by adding to it.


What about you guys?

[Edited on 03.16.2011 10:37 AM PDT]

  • 03.16.2011 9:03 AM PDT

Scandinavian Master Race!

I want a good campaign with good characters and it most be at least 10 hours long.

  • 03.16.2011 11:12 AM PDT

What makes a good campaign and good characters to you?

  • 03.16.2011 11:53 AM PDT

Scandinavian Master Race!

Epic, fun and memorable battles with real objectives not "Noble six go press that button". A good character should grow on you but Noble team were killed off before I got to know them but they were also pretty stereotypical you've got the big softie and the so called bad ass black guy etc. Look at Mass Effect it has decent characters so why can´t Halo.

  • 03.16.2011 12:51 PM PDT

http://bungie.me/sig/noble/Stealth+Fox74.png

Yea reach had very, VERY bad characters IMO. Odst had better but still not there. now the trilogy had some characters but they were good. like sgt Johnson. and cortana and keyes.

  • 03.16.2011 12:58 PM PDT
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I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.

I want it served sunny side up.

  • 03.16.2011 2:00 PM PDT

Deep fried, and smothered in chocolate. Just like my girls... /creepy ;)

[Edited on 03.16.2011 2:04 PM PDT]

  • 03.16.2011 2:03 PM PDT

Join Me for all things Forge: Reaching for Forge


Posted by: orphan
Posted by: Evil Johnny
What makes a good campaign and good characters to you?


A long campaign with levels of varying style and length, with fresh takes on objectives and missions. After Halo:CE, Halo felt like it became "GO BLOW UP THAT HUGE THING. IT'S BAD. BLOW UP THIS SMALLER THING SO WE CAN BRING IN OUR BIG THINGS AND BLOW THEM UP." A more tactical feel would feel good, such as "Create a disturbance on one end of the field, and we'll swoop in on the other. Tactically take down these shield generators while we draw them away, use their own huge-ass gun against them, and then arm a bomb and escape."

New takes on levels would also be great, instead of just changing the basic objective of "blow up the bad things that hinder our ability to blow up other bad things". For example, have we ever had a Halo mission where we pilot a dropship, covering fleeing friendly troops as enemies bear down upon them in the middle of an epic battle? I don't think so. We've always been those fleeing troops.
Imagine a mission where you are in a triad of Frigates, which are shot down. The Frigate expels all HEVs and Pelicans with troops on board, but you're stuck inside. Once you crash, you must help gather up the scattered forces and destroy any vital information on the ship, extract supplies, and possibly blow it up for the hell of it, all while under fire. Then, rendezvous with the other two Frigates, possibly helping them out. Maybe one of their bombs malfunctioned, so you have to bring in a new one and detonate it yourself. Then, you must escape the Covenant bastards raining hell down upon you from a Corvette or something. Add in new possibilites and actions, such as manning a turret on the side of a crashed Frigate and keeping Covenant dropships from getting too close while your friendly troops escape or extract materials from the ship. It'd be slightly new, but doesn't entirely change it away from Halo.

I got sorta bored from typing this, that happens a lot. I was ready to write up a huge post, but eh.

Developed characters with enticing and believable backgrounds would be cool too - maybe a soldier who had to kill his parents who were ONI/UNSC officers ala Cole Protocol, or a grizzled war hero who lost his brother and has watched dozens of worlds burn - maybe a jealous ODST who turns against his team after being constantly outshined by their Spartan III leader or something.

Great idea. I agree.

  • 03.16.2011 2:57 PM PDT
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Life is just a dream.

I want a civil war between humans, with Master Chief given the choice of who to side with. The game still has a classic Halo feel, but it also incorporates elements from Deus Ex and the Chronicles of Riddick. Open ended missions and different paths and multiple abilities to play would also be nice.

  • 03.16.2011 3:12 PM PDT

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*

I want a direct sequel to Halo 3.

  • 03.16.2011 4:00 PM PDT

Posted by: lord of dahorde
I want a direct sequel to Halo 3.

This!

  • 03.16.2011 4:03 PM PDT
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Boomer.
Best. Ship. Ever!

I want the next Halo game to say Halo Reach never happened.

  • 03.16.2011 4:45 PM PDT

ShadowOp1

I would like one that would be you as a brute undercover for the UNSC and will be the one of the top aliens of the covenant and whenever something comes along he tells the UNSC and they counter their attack. Towards the end he gets caught and when he is about to be executed, the UNSC storm the place and save him.

  • 03.16.2011 6:47 PM PDT


Posted by: orphan
Posted by: Evil Johnny
What makes a good campaign and good characters to you?


A long campaign with levels of varying style and length, with fresh takes on objectives and missions. After Halo:CE, Halo felt like it became "GO BLOW UP THAT HUGE THING. IT'S BAD. BLOW UP THIS SMALLER THING SO WE CAN BRING IN OUR BIG THINGS AND BLOW THEM UP." A more tactical feel would feel good, such as "Create a disturbance on one end of the field, and we'll swoop in on the other. Tactically take down these shield generators while we draw them away, use their own huge-ass gun against them, and then arm a bomb and escape."

New takes on levels would also be great, instead of just changing the basic objective of "blow up the bad things that hinder our ability to blow up other bad things". For example, have we ever had a Halo mission where we pilot a dropship, covering fleeing friendly troops as enemies bear down upon them in the middle of an epic battle? I don't think so. We've always been those fleeing troops.
Imagine a mission where you are in a triad of Frigates, which are shot down. The Frigate expels all HEVs and Pelicans with troops on board, but you're stuck inside. Once you crash, you must help gather up the scattered forces and destroy any vital information on the ship, extract supplies, and possibly blow it up for the hell of it, all while under fire. Then, rendezvous with the other two Frigates, possibly helping them out. Maybe one of their bombs malfunctioned, so you have to bring in a new one and detonate it yourself. Then, you must escape the Covenant bastards raining hell down upon you from a Corvette or something. Add in new possibilites and actions, such as manning a turret on the side of a crashed Frigate and keeping Covenant dropships from getting too close while your friendly troops escape or extract materials from the ship. It'd be slightly new, but doesn't entirely change it away from Halo.

I got sorta bored from typing this, that happens a lot. I was ready to write up a huge post, but eh.

Developed characters with enticing and believable backgrounds would be cool too - maybe a soldier who had to kill his parents who were ONI/UNSC officers ala Cole Protocol, or a grizzled war hero who lost his brother and has watched dozens of worlds burn - maybe a jealous ODST who turns against his team after being constantly outshined by their Spartan III leader or something.


That's what I'm talking about! Great ideas! Kind of help to show how the Halo gameplay level design got very formulatic and samey. And really, if 343 puts more thought in this they could really manage it. Since Halo 3 finished the story arc we all know, what better than to revitalize the Halo level design for the new beginning that a subsequent Halo game would be?

  • 03.16.2011 7:02 PM PDT


Posted by: ODST 93
Epic, fun and memorable battles with real objectives not "Noble six go press that button". A good character should grow on you but Noble team were killed off before I got to know them but they were also pretty stereotypical you've got the big softie and the so called bad ass black guy etc. Look at Mass Effect it has decent characters so why can´t Halo.


This up until the Mass Effect part. IMO, Mass Effect's characters are stereotypes as well. Beautiful love interest, tough black guy, nerdy, quick-talking scientist, rediculously pissed off biker-girl, etc.

Videogames, to me, have never showed any legitimate emotions. They're always either implied and told to us, or way to over the top (Final Fantasy 13)

They never let me actually experience what the characters are feeling. Just because I learn Miranda has daddy issues and a younger sister doesn't mean I automatically give a -blam!-. The only reason I like her is still that ass, nothing else.

Now I'm not sayting I want a love story, but look at Titanic. That movie portrayed the emotions as part of the experience rather then just being subtle plot-elements. Videogames portray emotions dully and simply, and I never get to feel any of it.

When I and the masses cry at a videogame, then videogames will truly have matured into a legitimate story-telling.

[Edited on 03.16.2011 8:05 PM PDT]

  • 03.16.2011 8:03 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: ODST 93
Epic, fun and memorable battles with real objectives not "Noble six go press that button". A good character should grow on you but Noble team were killed off before I got to know them but they were also pretty stereotypical you've got the big softie and the so called bad ass black guy etc. Look at Mass Effect it has decent characters so why can´t Halo.


This up until the Mass Effect part. IMO, Mass Effect's characters are stereotypes as well. Beautiful love interest, tough black guy, nerdy, quick-talking scientist, rediculously pissed off biker-girl, etc.

Videogames, to me, have never showed any legitimate emotions. They're always either implied and told to us, or way to over the top (Final Fantasy 13)

They never let me actually experience what the characters are feeling. Just because I learn Miranda has daddy issues and a younger sister doesn't mean I automatically give a -blam!-. The only reason I like her is still that ass, nothing else.

Now I'm not sayting I want a love story, but look at Titanic. That movie portrayed the emotions as part of the experience rather then just being subtle plot-elements. Videogames portray emotions dully and simply, and I never get to feel any of it.

When I and the masses cry at a videogame, then videogames will truly have matured into a legitimate story-telling.


I half agree here. I think a lot of JRPGs have interesting, non-stereotypical characters. Final Fantasy VII, Chrono Trigger or Chrono Cross for example.

  • 03.16.2011 8:28 PM PDT
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Boomer.
Best. Ship. Ever!


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
This up until the Mass Effect part. IMO, Mass Effect's characters are stereotypes as well. Beautiful love interest, tough black guy, nerdy, quick-talking scientist, rediculously pissed off biker-girl, etc.

Who's the tough black guy? Jacob? He wasn't really portrayed as tough. Anyway a lot of the characters, while stereotypes, do portray real emotions. My sister did show empathy towards the characters in both Mass Effects and Dragon Age and I cared about their troubles as well. Bioware has had their acting done very well since KOTOR.

While this is obviously a subjective matter I still believe the acting was excellent in both Mass Effects, better then what we see in a lot of movies. It's something Bungie should look into for their games since the acting wasn't really good at all in Reach except for a character here and there.

[Edited on 03.16.2011 9:17 PM PDT]

  • 03.16.2011 9:16 PM PDT

i actually want to see another halo wars, but one that is actually fair, like not being able to win a game in 5 minutes because you spammed out stuff. also would need to play as flood and sentinels and have serperate campaigns for each race

  • 03.16.2011 10:49 PM PDT

The next halo game is going to be a remake of halo: CE, by 343 industries ( im pretty sure).

  • 03.16.2011 10:53 PM PDT


Posted by: SpartanHero1998
The next halo game is going to be a remake of halo: CE, by 343 industries ( im pretty sure).


The remake will still be the first Halo, not any subsequent release in the series which is what I'm talking of.



Posted by: Bobmaster123
i actually want to see another halo wars, but one that is actually fair, like not being able to win a game in 5 minutes because you spammed out stuff. also would need to play as flood and sentinels and have serperate campaigns for each race


I agree here, also no team colours in the campaign please.

[Edited on 03.17.2011 7:09 AM PDT]

  • 03.17.2011 7:08 AM PDT

Thank You

Yours Sincerely,
Teh Phantom Panda

The Campaign is KINDA short, and the protagonist dies.

If we want a sad ending then take a leaf from Shakespeare and work more on Character Development so the player will actually FEEL sad.

Open map and non-liner objectives has been done on New Mombasa and New Alexandria, it is fine enough considering that it is an FIRST PERSON SHOOTER and not some RPG games, so ditch the side quests and farming in favor of more fast paced action and intense gameplay.

Campaign length is DEFINITLY an issue and the Halo 2 campaign was long enough, but individual levels could be more dynamic like Reach, and definitely more waypoints so as not to get lost in the Library (arrows on the FLOOR please, or a tactical map for you to plan the route (like ODST). That is what Cortana is meant for in the first place. And by length I mean the number of missions, NOT the length of levels (Gravemind or Assault on the CR gave me nightmares considering I cant play for more than a few hours at a go due to time constrains).

Carrying items should not, in my opinion, be integrated into the game. Once again it bears doing to the difference between First Person Shooter and Shooter-RPG like fallout.

One thing I would like to see is an Elite or Covenant campaign, like halo 2. That would be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!

In conclusion, I believe the only concept worth integrating should be an Alternate campaign, and increase in missions and campaign length.

  • 03.17.2011 7:45 AM PDT
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lets get some metelgear solid like sneaking around especially if we get to play as S-iii's in thier sneak suit things

  • 03.17.2011 7:56 AM PDT

While CE had the best campaign, it had by far the worst level design, as the last 3 levels were all backtracking previous levels, fortunately the flood spiced things up so
that it wasn't too repetitive, but it was too familiar. Halo 2 was the most linear of all, as was Halo 3(though both had good campaigns). ODST brought back the huge open worlds, and Reach brought it to a whole new level. I don't see how the level design is bad and linear when it has the biggest levels in the Halo franchise.

[Edited on 03.17.2011 8:11 AM PDT]

  • 03.17.2011 8:11 AM PDT

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