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This topic has moved here: Subject: "Overzealous Moderators?" A must read for all.
  • Subject: "Overzealous Moderators?" A must read for all.

Mods...evil? You obviously didn't see the Christmas present Yoozel gave us ;-).

And don't even get me started with TWITCH666 *twitches*

[Edited on 12/29/2005]

  • 12.29.2005 9:50 PM PDT

-S

Awesome, the thread was moved as I was writing a response. The response even ended with a comment about how the thread belongs in the Septagon.

To summarize, there's a limit to what is acceptable in criticism. As it turns out, making infantile insults about Bungie because you don't like a playlist, or because there is cheating, falls outside of the range of acceptability. Further, there's a line between provided helpful criticism, and contributing noise. That should be obvious, and that as why we have the "use common sense" rule.

Apparently, your unbiased opinion didn't allow you to read either the Zanzibar or the Optimatch forums. Your entire argument breaks down there; the optimatch is rife with criticism of various levels of civility and tact. I don't particularly feel the need to refute your argument that any negative comment is locked and its creator banned; the comment is proved false merely by reading the website.

As far as your comments regarding locking off topic threads, you're not going to like this, but deal with it. If we allow any off topic posting, more people begin to post off topic. If we always move threads instead of locking them for being off topic, people stop bothering to try to post in right place the first time. This isn't supposition; I've seen it before.

As far as moderators not writing a reason for every thread that is locked, keep in mind that a handful of moderators watch all the forums. They're volunteers, too. The only moderator that gets paid by Bungie is me, and that's only coincidental. It's not anyone's right to demand the moderators to come up with a written reason for every thread locked. It's also not exactly a leap in logic to look at a locked thread, realize "I shouldn't post this," and either file that away as freshly gained knowledge, or pm a moderator with a link to the thread and ask what exactly what was wrong about it.

That pretty much covers what I had to say on the topic. As head moderator, I think the mods are doing great.

  • 12.29.2005 10:03 PM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

I’ll tell you hands down that Twitch has more than outstayed his welcome and that if he his hiding among the ranks that it’s only a matter of time. If you personally had to go through with Stosh, Shishka and I had to go through when the forums first launched, you’d be a little bitter towards a lot of posts and disrespectful people.

But since you avoided the word filter with a select word, you’ve pretty much lost all respect from me in your argument.

  • 12.29.2005 10:04 PM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

Oh... Shishka is going to beat me again... I moved the topic. = (

  • 12.29.2005 10:19 PM PDT

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Ok moderators have there flaws too they are only people after all. Some people find thoughs flaws more apparent.....Anyways for what you are trying to achieve you are being very counter-productive. Posting a thread like this is never going to receive a good response especially in the septagon and I think being the apparently smart person that you are you knew that. What you should have done is PM the moderators in questions and tryed to resolve the problem with them. If they try and be witty with you just ignore it and cut to the point. (I think they're paid per witty comment). I think you would have had a much better chance of having your problem solved if you had not posted this but whats done is done and I've stated my opinion. Good luck with your problem.

+ Guardian

[Edited on 12/29/2005]

  • 12.29.2005 10:23 PM PDT

I agree. The mods give extra special treatment to the Trolls in Zanzibar. While I admit they've given me breaks the last few months, if they're going to be harsh, be consistent about it.
Not the old ones, btw.

[Edited on 12/29/2005]

  • 12.29.2005 10:54 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

They do the job given to them. Sometimes innocent civilians get caught in the cross fire, but for the most part they do the right thing.


franki is g4y

That may be the word yoozel was referring to.

I didnt read all of your first post cuz the first paragrah was uselss spouting of hate.

[Edited on 12/29/2005]

  • 12.29.2005 11:00 PM PDT

-S

Posted by: Give me Cookies
if you are talking about how i mentioned free stitch, then what I have to say is, i am speaking on the rights of people whom i believe have been wronged and unspoken for. This in no way was meant to be specifically a free stitch666 thread.


The mistake you've made is your misunderstanding about the rights of users.

Namely, users have no rights.

Twitch has earned the ire of the moderators. There's a thing called "reputation" and it prevents people from beliving you when you magically are suddenly willing to play nice. Frankly, you're lucky another moderator caught your thread about "freeing" him. My general policy when I see those threads is to blacklist the user for the length of the blacklist of the person they're petitioning for. ESPECIALLY when it's someone like Twitch.

  • 12.29.2005 11:05 PM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

g4y

Better?

  • 12.29.2005 11:22 PM PDT
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The mods do a great job, but I did once see a thread locked where it appeared as if nothing bad had occured.

  • 12.29.2005 11:32 PM PDT

-S

Posted by: Give me Cookies
crap. i messed up the names. the name was XxSTEVIEISG4YxX


In this case, your petition is rejected because his name is inflammatory. "No Flaming Others" is the most obvious rule on the site. Further, a subnote on his blacklisting suggests that he had actually been flaming other people on the site. His blacklisting is completely justified, and there won't be any further discussion of it without negative results for the person that starts it.

  • 12.29.2005 11:42 PM PDT

I here so much about "Twich" who is he ?

  • 12.29.2005 11:55 PM PDT
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The Frontline - A group dedicated to help improve the forums as a whole.

I think the main thing to remember here is the fact that the moderators (on the whole) are unpaid volunteers. They do this because they want to make bungie.net a better place, not for money.

I hope this fits in.

  • 12.29.2005 11:56 PM PDT

-S

Posted by: Give me Cookies
no problem shishka. i just wanted to clear up what i was saying. we cool?


Certainly. Just please keep in mind that petitions are not tolerated, and petitions about the blacklisting of other users will simply get you in trouble.

  • 12.30.2005 12:05 AM PDT
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Posted by: Give me Cookies
Now I'm probably going to get blacklisted for this(again), but I think it is an important thing that all have noticed, but few are brave enough to say.

The Mods are out of control. And being inefficient while doing so

The mods are out of control. They have the right to really do whatever they want, but doesn't mean they should. I too have the right to play my music as loud as I want, but it doesn't mean I should or will. They do not allow any anti bungie or anti halo(1,2) discussions take place. Once they see a even mildly off topic post they will lock it, even if the discussion contained in it is productive. Once one person posts a thread with a subject of "WTF Bungie?", "Cheating hasn't been fixed.", or "Bungie hasn't done anything!" the mods will throw a ban and then lock a thread.

I understand that a large majority of those posts(i've made a few too) are written like a retarded chipmunk on crack wrote it, but the truth remains that, even on ones that are in direct opposition to bungies practices, yet worded politely and constructively, are locked, and the poster, more times than not is off to the big bad blacklist.

If having your topic locked is not enough, the mods, in an attempt to further put down the poster and make themselves look perfect, will often post a short passage that goes directly with what the original poster complained about. for example the poster could complain about the frequency of cheaters and then the mod will lock it saying that cheaters were being reduced by millions at a time, saying that there are very few cheaters. Those types of obvlious responses to an obviously distraght person only further create more dislike of the mods in the general community.


Another great habit of the mods is locking posts and not leaving a reason why. I know that some of the posts which are locked are obvious infractions. However, not all of the locked posts' misgivings are as clear as day. If the goal of locking an inapproiate post is to deter people from breaking the rules, it is very contradictory to lock a thread without at least putting a one line response of what type of infraction was committed at least. Locking a thread before anybody even posts in it is a waste of the posters time, and a waste of the moderators time as well, as most infractions(the lesser ones) are committed by the same people,mostly for lack of knowledge of what they are doing wrong.

Now. The mods have a choice. recognize these erroneous tendancies of theirs and make bungie a better place for all, (including those who bend the rules), or lock this, blacklist me, and continue on is their cloud of oblivion.

FirePenguinz


You have a point here the moderaters are being very sour fish,and locked threads like your fav mod when thats showing you like them so anyways....GO SHISKA!!! I mean is he a bad moderater I havn't seen him do much bad things.

  • 12.30.2005 1:22 AM PDT

Posted by: Give me Cookies
Now I'm probably going to get blacklisted for this(again), but I think it is an important thing that all have noticed, but few are brave enough to say.

Actually, someone this "brave" usually posts every second week. Usually it's someone who didn't realise that calling people "-blam!- noobs whose -blam!- length is less than my ability to behave appropriately in a social situation" (or whatever) could be construed as "abusive, harassing, ... vulgar, obscene, hateful ... or otherwise objectionable content" (see the Bungie.net code of conduct), and assumed that they were banned because they thought they were cool by acting all maverick and using an anonymous persona on an internet forum to unconstructively criticise the hard work of talented people, but let's not go there.

The Mods are out of control. And being inefficient while doing so

The mods are out of control. They have the right to really do whatever they want, but doesn't mean they should.

This is in fact, not true. If you have a grievance about a decision made by a Bungie.net moderator, you can message them about it. If you are unsatisfied with their response, or if they don't respond (which is understandable considering how many messages they receive every day), you can take it up with one of the Master Forum Ninjas (stosh, Shishka, Recon Number 54 or Yoozel). If you're still unsatisfied, you can message Achronos. If you go straight to Achronos without talking to the moderators first, he will be extremely pissed off and ignore you. If you were banned for genuinely unacceptable reasons, you will be immediately unbanned, and the guy who did it will receive a reprimand. Thing is though, not once has this happened. The closest I ever did was when I accidentally banned Ghandi 2 - I think I managed to get Shishka to unban him before he even noticed. :P That's about as irresponsible as the mods get here.

I too have the right to play my music as loud as I want, but it doesn't mean I should or will.
Well, not really, since noise pollution is a criminal offence, but that's another story for another day.

They do not allow any anti bungie or anti halo(1,2) discussions take place. Once they see a even mildly off topic post they will lock it, even if the discussion contained in it is productive. Once one person posts a thread with a subject of "WTF Bungie?", "Cheating hasn't been fixed.", or "Bungie hasn't done anything!" the mods will throw a ban and then lock a thread.
I worked with these people for more than a year, and I can tell you that the moderators on the bungie.net are as careful as they could possibly be. When I got to this paragraph of your post, I knew that you're just an angry child who just likes to complain. People are never banned from Bungie.net for merely stating that they don't like Bungie, or Halo, or Halo 2, or Marathon, or whatever. Of course, if the post is a personal attack on someone who works for Bungie, the poster in question will be immediately banned, as personal attacks of any kind contravene the bungie.net code of conduct, which, incidentally, everybody agrees to when they register as a member of this website.

I understand that a large majority of those posts(i've made a few too) are written like a retarded chipmunk on crack wrote it, but the truth remains that, even on ones that are in direct opposition to bungies practices, yet worded politely and constructively, are locked, and the poster, more times than not is off to the big bad blacklist.
They're locked mainly because everyone's heard the same tired arguments several hundred times before in the past year or so since Halo 2 came out, and nobody really cares any more. Look at it this way. Most people decide whether they like a game or not off their own backs. They don't need someone else (or, in this case, hundreds of someones, every single week on these very forums) to point out the flaws and positive elements of whatever game. And since everybody who posts on the subject says almost exactly the same thing, anyone likely to be persuaded has probably already been persuaded, and hearing the same thing again won't make anyone else come over to your point of view. As for people being banned for criticising Bungie or Halo, unless you're acting like a jerk (ie flaming everyone in sight to pieces), you aren't going to be banned.

If having your topic locked is not enough, the mods, in an attempt to further put down the poster and make themselves look perfect, will often post a short passage that goes directly with what the original poster complained about. for example the poster could complain about the frequency of cheaters and then the mod will lock it saying that cheaters were being reduced by millions at a time, saying that there are very few cheaters. Those types of obvlious responses to an obviously distraght person only further create more dislike of the mods in the general community.
So, what you're saying is that you'd prefer the mods to lock a topic, and not explain why it was locked? I don't have Xbox Live myself, but from everything I've read from people who know what's going on (that is, the people who actually see all the cheater accounts get automatically banned), huge numbers of people have been banned from Halo 2 matchmaking for cheating. In addition, this topic has also been discussed to death, and every time someone says that cheaters are getting banned (or, even more absurdly, that the fact that cheaters can just get another free trial account is somehow Bungie's fault), that someone is flat-out wrong, so the moderator in question has every right to explain to this individual that their complaint is not necessarily justified.


Another great habit of the mods is locking posts and not leaving a reason why. I know that some of the posts which are locked are obvious infractions. However, not all of the locked posts' misgivings are as clear as day. If the goal of locking an inapproiate post is to deter people from breaking the rules, it is very contradictory to lock a thread without at least putting a one line response of what type of infraction was committed at least. Locking a thread before anybody even posts in it is a waste of the posters time, and a waste of the moderators time as well, as most infractions(the lesser ones) are committed by the same people,mostly for lack of knowledge of what they are doing wrong.

I can't speak for other people, but when I locked or deleted a thread without giving a reason why in the thread, I messaged the original poster telling them why. A thread is locked because it doesn't need to be there. When a moderator posts in the thread before locking it, it bumps the thread to the top, which is counter to the aim of locking the thread, which is to make it sink to the bottom of the forum.

Now. The mods have a choice. recognize these erroneous tendancies of theirs and make bungie a better place for all, (including those who bend the rules), or lock this, blacklist me, and continue on is their cloud of oblivion.
Your ultimatum lacks an actual legitimate choice, and it's also not much of an ultimatum anyway considering that you have nothing as an incentive to make the mods bow down to your inflated ego. The option I would suggest the mods follow would be to carry on as they do now. Check out how this thread hasn't been locked! Check out how you haven't been blacklisted! Check out how they haven't agreed with you!

Here's the bottom line. The moderators have a job to do, which is to make sure that everybody follows the forum rules, the terms of use, and the code of conduct. If somebody doesn't follow these rules (and it's pretty easy to follow them; in four-odd years of using this site, I didn't break them once, to the best of my knowledge; well except from that one time when I called everyone on the forum noobs, but that was before stosh was a moderator and made that rule up so ha ha ha stinky), then the moderators must make sure that user doesn't break them again, either by a warning, a temporary blacklist, or a permanent blacklist. I know these guys. They aren't the sort of -blam!-s who ban you just because they disagree with you. If that were true, then all the mods would probably have banned each other by now.

And no, I'm not back. I just stopped by to check the place out and saw this post. -blam!- like this pisses me off.

- Reiginko

  • 12.30.2005 5:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: Reiginko
And no, I'm not back. I just stopped by to check the place out and saw this post. -blam!- like this pisses me off.

- Reiginko


Wow.

Anyway, if you think the moderators are too harsh then take a look at Optimatch. If I was a moderator I would probably go there and blacklist everyone who made a thread complaining about Matchmaking (that -blam!- just pisses me off).


[edit]Also, you see how The Septagon is full of Halo 3 threads? That also irritates me, and I'm sure it irritates most of the moderators. But you don't see them banning/locking/deleting those threads do you?[/edit]

[Edited on 12/30/2005]

  • 12.30.2005 5:27 AM PDT

Only Becausae I'm Awesome

Forum Tutorials --- WATCH THEM AND LEARN

So what they're basically saying, is don't break the damn rules.

When you were signing up for an account here, you attached your digital signiture to the code of conduct agreeing to follow the forum rules to their full extent. By breaking the rules, you effectivly break the agreement, and thus ending you're membership.

  • 12.30.2005 5:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: littlerat
So what they're basically saying, is don't break the damn rules.

When you were signing up for an account here, you attached your digital signiture to the code of conduct agreeing to follow the forum rules to their full extent. By breaking the rules, you effectivly break the agreement, and thus ending you're membership.


Sounds easy enough.

  • 12.30.2005 6:02 AM PDT