Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE272
  • Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE272
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE272

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

NATO forces are discussing ways to take Libyan state TV off the Air through military action(destroying relays and power sources)

Financial opportunities to do so(stopping Libya from being able to pay the companies owning satellites etc.) are being blocked by Russia and China.

  • 04.15.2011 12:33 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE276

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Gaddafi forces have taken to fire cluster bomb style artillery into Misurata. by virtue to the inaccuracy of these weapons, they are killing civilians. there is massive collateral damage being incurred with entire buildings being demolished.


i think the ICC should count this as evidence, i'm sure theres a video of these attacks somewhere

well, Syria just proved a point as well

also good to see the British are giving the Rebels body armor as well, maybe it will lower the number of casualties they take

as for the last statement, where is Psych ops, or better yet wheres my States Air National Guard. ill see if i cant find the aircraft i'm thinking of. found it

[Edited on 04.15.2011 12:38 PM PDT]

  • 04.15.2011 12:34 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

Canadian JTF-2 troops that were purposed for protection of Humanitarian aid in Libya are confirmed to have been moved from that posting to be part of the training and direct organization of the rebels. While this Liaison and training operation has slowed the Rebel advance to Brega, it has solidified the rebel defences and boosted moral.

no word on what other countries have joined in on this.


PERSONAL ADDENDUM: i personally believe this group to be the special forces that were deployed a week or so ago and news on them just vanished. they are just now being officially reassigned.

[Edited on 04.15.2011 12:39 PM PDT]

  • 04.15.2011 12:37 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE276

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

Just read an interesting article about who is actively contributing to airstrikes in Libya out of the 40 country coalition.

there are 6 countries actively bombing Gaddafi forces under NATO command, the others are patrolling the Airspace and coast.

Britain: 20% of the airstrikes
France: 40% of airstrikes
US: 20%
Qatar: 1%
Denmark: 4%
Canada: 15%

there have been over 850 sorties flown with ordinance deployed.

This means that 6 planes(Canadian) have deployed ordinance at least 4 times a day since they arrived in the Mediterranean. Just to give you an idea how active the pilots that are fighting are.



  • 04.15.2011 1:01 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE265

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: lonepaul2441
In Regards of the boots going onto ground i think instead of a coalition force their should only be one nation to send in troops and not the USA.

Because joint forces take a lot of planning and work of each others strengths and weaknesses which soldiers from different countries do not know.

For example the Royal Marines may get slowed down by French forces which will hinder their performance. A single nation with the backing of other nations with equipment and surveillance would be much more effective since the soldiers know how to work with each other and have common tactic knowledge and same chain of command. Which in my opinion is why the Iraqi war and Afghanistan wars are/did take so long if it was one nation they can focus more troops and use them to their full potential.
it's one advantage that Canadian and British SpecOps have, as they co-train almost all the time. they are already trained to work together.

It's also why NATO is in command rather than a Coalition council.

  • 04.15.2011 1:02 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE270

The cake is a pie


Posted by: Mai R0f1C0pt3r
Posted by: Ultermarto
After thinking daily about where i stand on this issue, i'de like to ask you all something. What do we, the 1st world civilians, want to happen. Not that I reject their cause but why are we so quick to support the rebels when they too are a military faction. Where is the good side in all this? because all i see is a bad side and a worse side.


What's so bad about the rebels?

Also why the hell would we even consider Gaddafi as a lesser evil when he's been shelling the hell out of his own people for several months now?

Admittedly i also think that gadaffi is worse. As for the rebels, are you aware that some of them are terrorists, simply riding the revolution to power?. My source was a discussion on the BBC, so I don't know if thats entirely true.

  • 04.15.2011 1:04 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: Mai R0f1C0pt3r
Posted by: Ultermarto
After thinking daily about where i stand on this issue, i'de like to ask you all something. What do we, the 1st world civilians, want to happen. Not that I reject their cause but why are we so quick to support the rebels when they too are a military faction. Where is the good side in all this? because all i see is a bad side and a worse side.


What's so bad about the rebels?

Also why the hell would we even consider Gaddafi as a lesser evil when he's been shelling the hell out of his own people for several months now?

Admittedly i also think that gadaffi is worse. As for the rebels, are you aware that some of them are terrorists, simply riding the revolution to power?. My source was a discussion on the BBC, so I don't know if thats entirely true.
while this was reported as a possibility by the Russians, the fact that Al-Qaeda is openly saying to attack NATO forces, and The rebels want more NATO assistance, i wouldn't put any stock in it. The rebel leadership has also said that the entire movement is very pro-western, another thing that is polar opposite of Al-Qaeda.

  • 04.15.2011 1:22 PM PDT

The cake is a pie


Posted by: Phoenix1330
while this was reported as a possibility by the Russians, the fact that Al-Qaeda is openly saying to attack NATO forces, and The rebels want more NATO assistance, i wouldn't put any stock in it. The rebel leadership has also said that the entire movement is very pro-western, another thing that is polar opposite of Al-Qaeda.

.....i never said anything about Al-Qaeda

  • 04.15.2011 1:24 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE276

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: Phoenix1330
while this was reported as a possibility by the Russians, the fact that Al-Qaeda is openly saying to attack NATO forces, and The rebels want more NATO assistance, i wouldn't put any stock in it. The rebel leadership has also said that the entire movement is very pro-western, another thing that is polar opposite of Al-Qaeda.

.....i never said anything about Al-Qaeda
The reports were all about Al-Qaeda. no other terror organization has been reported to be working with the rebels.


well, unless you ask Gaddafi, who also claims that the rebel forces are Irish, British, American, Colonialist, Christian, Crusaders, sent by Egypt and Israel, while brainwashed and high on psychedelic drugs, with no political ideals of their own.

The rebels are a positive force, not being fuelled by terror organizations, if anything the terror organizations are fighting against them not along side them

[Edited on 04.15.2011 1:29 PM PDT]

  • 04.15.2011 1:25 PM PDT

Gadaffi is now using teenage conscripts against Misrata says The Telegraph

  • 04.15.2011 1:43 PM PDT

The cake is a pie


Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: Phoenix1330
while this was reported as a possibility by the Russians, the fact that Al-Qaeda is openly saying to attack NATO forces, and The rebels want more NATO assistance, i wouldn't put any stock in it. The rebel leadership has also said that the entire movement is very pro-western, another thing that is polar opposite of Al-Qaeda.

.....i never said anything about Al-Qaeda
The reports were all about Al-Qaeda. no other terror organization has been reported to be working with the rebels.


well, unless you ask Gaddafi, who also claims that the rebel forces are Irish, British, American, Colonialist, Christian, Crusaders, sent by Egypt and Israel, while brainwashed and high on psychedelic drugs, with no political ideals of their own.

The rebels are a positive force, not being fuelled by terror organizations, if anything the terror organizations are fighting against them not along side them

OK new factor. Despite my belief that we should avoid all fighting, I think it's safe to say that the rebels are the good guys. Now, how do we help them?.

I'de like to point out that killing world leaders, which is what people seem to expect to happen, is very difficult. In the end hitler killed himself before the opponents got him.

  • 04.15.2011 1:45 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Mereel N7
Gadaffi is now using teenage conscripts against Misrata says The Telegraph
added to OP

  • 04.15.2011 1:46 PM PDT

The cake is a pie


Posted by: lonepaul2441
Ultermato this a brief thing. Basically they want to be like the west and have freedom their current governments will not give them, so they are fighting for it. And we where happy to leave them to it BUT Gaddafi has been killing civilians so to protect them and by the rebels asking we have intervened to protect the civilians and as a by product helping the rebels by destroying advancing heavy armour.

But now we are going in to help the rebels with the fighting.

huhbuhwahjuh eh?
what did you just say bout us helping with fighting? You mean ground fighting?

  • 04.15.2011 1:46 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: Phoenix1330
while this was reported as a possibility by the Russians, the fact that Al-Qaeda is openly saying to attack NATO forces, and The rebels want more NATO assistance, i wouldn't put any stock in it. The rebel leadership has also said that the entire movement is very pro-western, another thing that is polar opposite of Al-Qaeda.

.....i never said anything about Al-Qaeda
The reports were all about Al-Qaeda. no other terror organization has been reported to be working with the rebels.


well, unless you ask Gaddafi, who also claims that the rebel forces are Irish, British, American, Colonialist, Christian, Crusaders, sent by Egypt and Israel, while brainwashed and high on psychedelic drugs, with no political ideals of their own.

The rebels are a positive force, not being fuelled by terror organizations, if anything the terror organizations are fighting against them not along side them

OK new factor. Despite my belief that we should avoid all fighting, I think it's safe to say that the rebels are the good guys. Now, how do we help them?.

I'de like to point out that killing world leaders, which is what people seem to expect to happen, is very difficult. In the end hitler killed himself before the opponents got him.
Doing things like Equipping the rebels with body armour and training them to fight better and giving air support like we are seems to be a good bet.

as for killing Gaddafi, nobody actually wants him dead. they want to capture him and make him stand trial in the UN Criminal Court for War Crimes

  • 04.15.2011 1:48 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: lonepaul2441
Ultermato this a brief thing. Basically they want to be like the west and have freedom their current governments will not give them, so they are fighting for it. And we where happy to leave them to it BUT Gaddafi has been killing civilians so to protect them and by the rebels asking we have intervened to protect the civilians and as a by product helping the rebels by destroying advancing heavy armour.

But now we are going in to help the rebels with the fighting.

huhbuhwahjuh eh?
what did you just say bout us helping with fighting? You mean ground fighting?
a small team of British and Canadian special forces along with teams from other unnamed countries are Training the Rebels and supplying them with body armour. while they are not directly involved in the fighting it is why we've seen the rebel army becoming more organized and more efficient as of late.

  • 04.15.2011 1:49 PM PDT

The cake is a pie


Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: lonepaul2441
Ultermato this a brief thing. Basically they want to be like the west and have freedom their current governments will not give them, so they are fighting for it. And we where happy to leave them to it BUT Gaddafi has been killing civilians so to protect them and by the rebels asking we have intervened to protect the civilians and as a by product helping the rebels by destroying advancing heavy armour.

But now we are going in to help the rebels with the fighting.

huhbuhwahjuh eh?
what did you just say bout us helping with fighting? You mean ground fighting?
a small team of British and Canadian special forces along with teams from other unnamed countries are Training the Rebels and supplying them with body armour. while they are not directly involved in the fighting it is why we've seen the rebel army becoming more organized and more efficient as of late.

Damnit how do i miss these things? I try to keep up i swear, this issue has been bothering me for weeks.

  • 04.15.2011 1:52 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: lonepaul2441
Ultermato this a brief thing. Basically they want to be like the west and have freedom their current governments will not give them, so they are fighting for it. And we where happy to leave them to it BUT Gaddafi has been killing civilians so to protect them and by the rebels asking we have intervened to protect the civilians and as a by product helping the rebels by destroying advancing heavy armour.

But now we are going in to help the rebels with the fighting.

huhbuhwahjuh eh?
what did you just say bout us helping with fighting? You mean ground fighting?
a small team of British and Canadian special forces along with teams from other unnamed countries are Training the Rebels and supplying them with body armour. while they are not directly involved in the fighting it is why we've seen the rebel army becoming more organized and more efficient as of late.

Damnit how do i miss these things? I try to keep up i swear, this issue has been bothering me for weeks.
the group that frequents this thread and I have been watching about 20 news sources for info 24 hours a day.

the big stuff and a lot of little stuff gets posted to the OP here too.

as to the Boots on the ground bit, it's very new news. only about 2 hours ago that it was announced.

[Edited on 04.15.2011 1:56 PM PDT]

  • 04.15.2011 1:55 PM PDT

the cluster munitions used against Misrata were from MAT-120 Mortars

  • 04.15.2011 1:55 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Mereel N7
the cluster munitions used against Misrata were from MAT-120 Mortars
thank you.

  • 04.15.2011 1:57 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE270

"What's up baby, how are you doin'? I hate the sound of my own voice and I been invited here to distract my self from the fact that I wrote all of this garbage."

Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: Mai R0f1C0pt3r
Posted by: Ultermarto
After thinking daily about where i stand on this issue, i'de like to ask you all something. What do we, the 1st world civilians, want to happen. Not that I reject their cause but why are we so quick to support the rebels when they too are a military faction. Where is the good side in all this? because all i see is a bad side and a worse side.


What's so bad about the rebels?

Also why the hell would we even consider Gaddafi as a lesser evil when he's been shelling the hell out of his own people for several months now?

Admittedly i also think that gadaffi is worse. As for the rebels, are you aware that some of them are terrorists, simply riding the revolution to power?. My source was a discussion on the BBC, so I don't know if thats entirely true.


Are you aware that that is a very, very unconfirmed statement that's mostly being sensationalized by politicians who think most Muslims are al-Qaeda operative anyways? al-Qaeda is very much a nondemocratic entity, and the Rebels want democracy.

  • 04.15.2011 1:59 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: lonepaul2441
Syria: Clashes at mass Damascus protest

Tens of thousands of protesters trying to march on the centre of the Syrian capital, Damascus, have been met by security forces firing tear gas.

Witnesses said security forces also beat protesters with batons.

Syria has been shaken by a month of anti-government protests in which about 200 people have been reported killed.

Demonstrations have continued despite President Bashar al-Assad forming a new government and granting amnesties to some of the detained protesters.

Thousands of people were also reported to have demonstrated in a number of other Syrian cities, including Deraa, Latakia, Baniyas and Qamishli - most places where violence has been previously reported
damn, almost went an entire day with a million protesters in that country with no clashes. then this.

Added to OP.

  • 04.15.2011 2:01 PM PDT