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  • Subject: Events in Libya Unrest in the ArabWorld And Africa GOOD NEWS UPDATE311
Subject: Events in Libya Unrest in the ArabWorld And Africa GOOD NEWS UPDATE311
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Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: chucky chief

Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: chucky chief
Reports from captured soldiers suggest that some loyaist soldiers are replacing their fatigues with civilian clothes, and simply leaving Misrata.

Not long till the rebels are able to push the rest of gaddafis forces out

And henceforth to tripoli, am i right?


I dunno, Gaddafi has more civilian support in Tripoli. It could either be that everyone in Tripoli think gaddafi is a hero [libya state TV says he is and so the people might believe it] or it could be that only a small number of people like gaddafi in tripoli and they are just scared of being murdered in their beds.

I wouldn't be so quick to doubt that gadaffi really does have supporters. Patriotism does stupid things sometimes. If that is the case, what do?


We would have to leave gaddafi in power, and split Libya in two. A side for gaddafi supporters and a side for the rebels. Hopefully there is enough support for rebellion in tripoli, that the rebels will only be fighting gaddafi soldiers if they invade tripoli

  • 04.24.2011 9:04 AM PDT

The cake is a pie


Posted by: chucky chief

We would have to leave gaddafi in power, and split Libya in two. A side for gaddafi supporters and a side for the rebels. Hopefully there is enough support for rebellion in tripoli, that the rebels will only be fighting gaddafi soldiers if they invade tripoli
Ohh heyall nah, that wouldn't work. Imagine two sides of resentful people, and one of them has a leader seeking power and an excuse for it. The only way for this to end is rebel defeat or gadaffi defeat. Unfortunately we have no room for comprimise.

  • 04.24.2011 9:09 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: chucky chief

We would have to leave gaddafi in power, and split Libya in two. A side for gaddafi supporters and a side for the rebels. Hopefully there is enough support for rebellion in tripoli, that the rebels will only be fighting gaddafi soldiers if they invade tripoli
Ohh heyall nah, that wouldn't work. Imagine two sides of resentful people, and one of them has a leader seeking power and an excuse for it. The only way for this to end is rebel defeat or gadaffi defeat. Unfortunately we have no room for comprimise.
That and both sides said they will not settle for a split Libya.

  • 04.24.2011 9:11 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

Two captured Gaddafi fighters in Misurata say that loyalist moral is very very low, but were afraid of surrendering to the rebels as their commanders told them that the rebels would execute them.

  • 04.24.2011 9:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: chucky chief

We would have to leave gaddafi in power, and split Libya in two. A side for gaddafi supporters and a side for the rebels. Hopefully there is enough support for rebellion in tripoli, that the rebels will only be fighting gaddafi soldiers if they invade tripoli
Ohh heyall nah, that wouldn't work. Imagine two sides of resentful people, and one of them has a leader seeking power and an excuse for it. The only way for this to end is rebel defeat or gadaffi defeat. Unfortunately we have no room for comprimise.
That and both sides said they will not settle for a split Libya.


I think they will have to. Because if they dont, the rebels will march into Tripoli, encounter HEAVY resistance and the UN couldnt help because civilians are in that area and some or loads of them may support gaddafi. The rebels will be without help, and even if they do win, it will be a massacre with innocent civilians being caught in the crossfire and then NATO and the UN will be blamed for getting involved. Some of gaddafis civilians may even fight the rebels, making the UN look like they are supporting the killing of civilians.

It would be a mess

  • 04.24.2011 9:15 AM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE315

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: chucky chief

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: chucky chief

We would have to leave gaddafi in power, and split Libya in two. A side for gaddafi supporters and a side for the rebels. Hopefully there is enough support for rebellion in tripoli, that the rebels will only be fighting gaddafi soldiers if they invade tripoli
Ohh heyall nah, that wouldn't work. Imagine two sides of resentful people, and one of them has a leader seeking power and an excuse for it. The only way for this to end is rebel defeat or gadaffi defeat. Unfortunately we have no room for comprimise.
That and both sides said they will not settle for a split Libya.


I think they will have to. Because if they dont, the rebels will march into Tripoli, encounter HEAVY resistance and the UN couldnt help because civilians are in that area and some or loads of them may support gaddafi. The rebels will be without help, and even if they do win, it will be a massacre with innocent civilians being caught in the crossfire and then NATO and the UN will be blamed for getting involved. Some of gaddafis civilians may even fight the rebels, making the UN look like they are supporting the killing of civilians.

It would be a mess

it will be a mess, regardless, but neither Gaddafi or the rebels will care what NATO and the UN looks like because of it. Both sides have made it VERY clear that a split Libya will never be an option.

for this conflict to end either Gaddafi has to eliminate the rebellion or the rebels have to instate a democratic government.

[Edited on 04.24.2011 9:19 AM PDT]

  • 04.24.2011 9:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: chucky chief

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: chucky chief

We would have to leave gaddafi in power, and split Libya in two. A side for gaddafi supporters and a side for the rebels. Hopefully there is enough support for rebellion in tripoli, that the rebels will only be fighting gaddafi soldiers if they invade tripoli
Ohh heyall nah, that wouldn't work. Imagine two sides of resentful people, and one of them has a leader seeking power and an excuse for it. The only way for this to end is rebel defeat or gadaffi defeat. Unfortunately we have no room for comprimise.
That and both sides said they will not settle for a split Libya.


I think they will have to. Because if they dont, the rebels will march into Tripoli, encounter HEAVY resistance and the UN couldnt help because civilians are in that area and some or loads of them may support gaddafi. The rebels will be without help, and even if they do win, it will be a massacre with innocent civilians being caught in the crossfire and then NATO and the UN will be blamed for getting involved. Some of gaddafis civilians may even fight the rebels, making the UN look like they are supporting the killing of civilians.

It would be a mess

it will be a mess, regardless, but neither Gaddafi or the rebels will care what NATO and the UN looks like because of it. Both sides have made it VERY clear that a split Libya will never be an option.

for this conflict to end either Gaddafi has to eliminate the rebellion or the rebels have to instate a democratic government.


Yeah, but we would be forced to stop helping the rebels. Russia and China would critise us, and suddenly gaddafis position looks alot stronger

I agree that for the conflict to end gaddafi or the rebels have to take full control. But suddenly this conflict is alot more complicated

[Edited on 04.24.2011 9:21 AM PDT]

  • 04.24.2011 9:20 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: chucky chief

Yeah, but we would be forced to stop helping the rebels. Russia and China would critise us, and suddenly gaddafis position looks alot stronger

I agree that for the conflict to end gaddafi or the rebels have to take full control. But suddenly this conflict is alot more complicated
conflicts are rarely as straight forward as the world wars were.

  • 04.24.2011 9:25 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

Gaddafi forces while having pulled out of the City have begun the largest Artillery attack of the war bombarding the entire city indiscriminately and furiously.

  • 04.24.2011 10:24 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

It appears that Gaddafi propaganda in the military is convincing the soldiers they are fighting two different fronts right now, with NATO and the rebels fighting near Ajdabiya and al-Qaeda in Misurata, they are being misled and misinformed by their officers about who and why they are fighting.

  • 04.24.2011 1:28 PM PDT

Lol wtf? That's actually kinda clever.

  • 04.24.2011 1:29 PM PDT
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yeah i saw that on Al jazeera aswell

A captured Gaddafi fighter tells the Associated Press Television that government soldiers were told before reaching the front that they were going to fight al-Qaeda, and that they had been 'misled.'

Does anyone else think this is bull?? Government snipes have shot little kids and people fleeing the area. One story was how a 14 year old boy was shot in the arm while playing football.

  • 04.24.2011 1:29 PM PDT

Posted by: chucky chief
yeah i saw that on Al jazeera aswell

A captured Gaddafi fighter tells the Associated Press Television that government soldiers were told before reaching the front that they were going to fight al-Qaeda, and that they had been 'misled.'

Does anyone else think this is bull?? Government snipes have shot little kids and people fleeing the area. One story was how a 14 year old boy was shot in the arm while playing football.

That is why i don't play sports. Incase someone decides to snipe my arm off.

  • 04.24.2011 1:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartanslayer15
Posted by: chucky chief
yeah i saw that on Al jazeera aswell

A captured Gaddafi fighter tells the Associated Press Television that government soldiers were told before reaching the front that they were going to fight al-Qaeda, and that they had been 'misled.'

Does anyone else think this is bull?? Government snipes have shot little kids and people fleeing the area. One story was how a 14 year old boy was shot in the arm while playing football.

That is why i don't play sports. Incase someone decides to snipe my arm off.


Turns out staying indoors on the computer is a great idea
(:

  • 04.24.2011 1:34 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE317


Posted by: spartanslayer15
That is why i don't play sports. Incase someone decides to snipe my arm off.

I told my mom the same thing when I was in middle school.

Any news on the supposed attack on Brega? If the rebels can reach Misuarata from there then it seems like a priority.

[Edited on 04.24.2011 1:35 PM PDT]

  • 04.24.2011 1:35 PM PDT

The cake is a pie

Hey wait a sec, what about the soldiers?

The loyalist forces for Gadaffi, many of whom may actually reject gadaffi but be too scared to stand up. Many of whom are apparently misinformed as to who they are fighting. Those potentially innocent people could die at the hands of NATO. Crap. How did i fail to think of this untill now?.

Not that we have a choice, but is there any way we can save these people?.

  • 04.24.2011 1:37 PM PDT


Posted by: Ultermarto
Hey wait a sec, what about the soldiers?

The loyalist forces for Gadaffi, many of whom may actually reject gadaffi but be too scared to stand up. Many of whom are apparently misinformed as to who they are fighting. Those potentially innocent people could die at the hands of NATO. Crap. How did i fail to think of this untill now?.

Not that we have a choice, but is there any way we can save these people?.

The only hope they have is for them to surrender or deffect. If they're firing at innocent civilians then they have to be stopped. It's sad when they're forced to fight but hat's art of conflict. In the end, the people without the guns need to be protected from the ones with the guns.That's what this conflict is, a fight for survival on the part of the Rebels.

  • 04.24.2011 1:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ultermarto
Hey wait a sec, what about the soldiers?

The loyalist forces for Gadaffi, many of whom may actually reject gadaffi but be too scared to stand up. Many of whom are apparently misinformed as to who they are fighting. Those potentially innocent people could die at the hands of NATO. Crap. How did i fail to think of this untill now?.

Not that we have a choice, but is there any way we can save these people?.


Not really to be honest. And remember these people have bombarded misrata with artillery fire. Im pretty sure they knew they were killing civilians.

And even if they wernt, there is nothing we can do but hope they surrender.

  • 04.24.2011 1:41 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya Unrest in the ArabWorld And Africa GOOD NEWS UPDATE311

The cake is a pie


Posted by: chucky chief

I think they will have to. Because if they dont, the rebels will march into Tripoli, encounter HEAVY resistance and the UN couldnt help because civilians are in that area and some or loads of them may support gaddafi. The rebels will be without help, and even if they do win, it will be a massacre with innocent civilians being caught in the crossfire and then NATO and the UN will be blamed for getting involved. Some of gaddafis civilians may even fight the rebels, making the UN look like they are supporting the killing of civilians.

It would be a mess


Damn. Yeah, I mean, what do we expect that the rebels ill just walk in, the civilians will step aside and they'll be able to mow down the loyalists without any complications. Mabye the pope was right. This can almost only end with attrocity unless we find a way to negotiate.

Now how do we get a man who has grown up with enourmouse power and who knows no value of life, to give into demands in return for ceasefire?. We need a psychologist.

  • 04.24.2011 1:44 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE317

The cake is a pie


Posted by: chucky chief

Posted by: Ultermarto
Hey wait a sec, what about the soldiers?

The loyalist forces for Gadaffi, many of whom may actually reject gadaffi but be too scared to stand up. Many of whom are apparently misinformed as to who they are fighting. Those potentially innocent people could die at the hands of NATO. Crap. How did i fail to think of this untill now?.

Not that we have a choice, but is there any way we can save these people?.


Not really to be honest. And remember these people have bombarded misrata with artillery fire. Im pretty sure they knew they were killing civilians.

And even if they wernt, there is nothing we can do but hope they surrender.

I'm sure it's not the entire loyalist army who has taken part in the massacres, even willfully. That's like expecting every criminal in a prison to be in for murder.

  • 04.24.2011 1:45 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: chucky chief

Posted by: Ultermarto
Hey wait a sec, what about the soldiers?

The loyalist forces for Gadaffi, many of whom may actually reject gadaffi but be too scared to stand up. Many of whom are apparently misinformed as to who they are fighting. Those potentially innocent people could die at the hands of NATO. Crap. How did i fail to think of this untill now?.

Not that we have a choice, but is there any way we can save these people?.


Not really to be honest. And remember these people have bombarded misrata with artillery fire. Im pretty sure they knew they were killing civilians.

And even if they wernt, there is nothing we can do but hope they surrender.
NATO is trying to convince Gaddafi troops to defect via highjacking radio signals, however there's not to much else NATO can do, they have to prioritize civilians over military, even if the soldiers are being misled.

  • 04.24.2011 1:46 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya Unrest in the ArabWorld And Africa GOOD NEWS UPDATE311
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Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: chucky chief

I think they will have to. Because if they dont, the rebels will march into Tripoli, encounter HEAVY resistance and the UN couldnt help because civilians are in that area and some or loads of them may support gaddafi. The rebels will be without help, and even if they do win, it will be a massacre with innocent civilians being caught in the crossfire and then NATO and the UN will be blamed for getting involved. Some of gaddafis civilians may even fight the rebels, making the UN look like they are supporting the killing of civilians.

It would be a mess


Damn. Yeah, I mean, what do we expect that the rebels ill just walk in, the civilians will step aside and they'll be able to mow down the loyalists without any complications. Mabye the pope was right. This can almost only end with attrocity unless we find a way to negotiate.

Now how do we get a man who has grown up with enourmouse power and who knows no value of life, to give into demands in return for ceasefire?. We need a psychologist.


We have told gaddafi to step down loads of times. He has made 3 ceasefires and broken all 3 of them within a day. He isnt going to stop. The only real way to end this quickly is to assasinate him, which probably wont happen

  • 04.24.2011 1:47 PM PDT
Subject: Events in Libya, Unrest in the Arab World And Africa UPDATE317


Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: chucky chief

Posted by: Ultermarto
Hey wait a sec, what about the soldiers?

The loyalist forces for Gadaffi, many of whom may actually reject gadaffi but be too scared to stand up. Many of whom are apparently misinformed as to who they are fighting. Those potentially innocent people could die at the hands of NATO. Crap. How did i fail to think of this untill now?.

Not that we have a choice, but is there any way we can save these people?.


Not really to be honest. And remember these people have bombarded misrata with artillery fire. Im pretty sure they knew they were killing civilians.

And even if they wernt, there is nothing we can do but hope they surrender.

I'm sure it's not the entire loyalist army who has taken part in the massacres, even willfully. That's like expecting every criminal in a prison to be in for murder.

First off that comparison makes no sense.

Secondly, the argument that you were following orders has been disregarded as a defense in international courts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Trials

[Edited on 04.24.2011 1:47 PM PDT]

  • 04.24.2011 1:47 PM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: chucky chief

Posted by: Ultermarto
Hey wait a sec, what about the soldiers?

The loyalist forces for Gadaffi, many of whom may actually reject gadaffi but be too scared to stand up. Many of whom are apparently misinformed as to who they are fighting. Those potentially innocent people could die at the hands of NATO. Crap. How did i fail to think of this untill now?.

Not that we have a choice, but is there any way we can save these people?.


Not really to be honest. And remember these people have bombarded misrata with artillery fire. Im pretty sure they knew they were killing civilians.

And even if they wernt, there is nothing we can do but hope they surrender.

I'm sure it's not the entire loyalist army who has taken part in the massacres, even willfully. That's like expecting every criminal in a prison to be in for murder.
a large majority of it actually has, but the 'forced to fight' thing keeps coming up, with people saying they watched defectors get burned alive for trying to not kill the rebels. The loyalist army is driven by fear not by desire to serve Gaddafi.

  • 04.24.2011 1:49 PM PDT

The cake is a pie


Posted by: Phoenix1330

I'm sure it's not the entire loyalist army who has taken part in the massacres, even willfully. That's like expecting every criminal in a prison to be in for murder.[/quote]a large majority of it actually has, but the 'forced to fight' thing keeps coming up, with people saying they watched defectors get burned alive for trying to not kill the rebels. The loyalist army is driven by fear not by desire to serve Gaddafi.

Exactly, and my question is do we punish individuals, or the faction in general, for being afraid?. It's only expected of them as human beings.

  • 04.24.2011 1:51 PM PDT