Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Arab Spring, Focus on Libya, Syria and Yemen UPDATE377
  • Subject: The Arab Spring, Focus on Libya, Syria and Yemen UPDATE377
Subject: The Arab Spring, Focus on Libya, Syria and Yemen UPDATE378

its odd timing for exercises, especially after threatening military action if anyone intervenes militarily in current Middle East disputes. i'm sure that the dates for such exercises were made before Syria became a problem though.

NATO Airstrikes Pound Libyan Capital in Daytime Raid

i also heard there was more airstrikes last night, that would be the 3rd night in a row.

Syrians brace for more clashes as protests gear up

Yemeni government says Saleh to return from Saudi in days

[Edited on 06.17.2011 6:10 AM PDT]

  • 06.17.2011 6:09 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Dynex811

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Ultermarto

Posted by: Phoenix1330
It's because the world no longer has a stable political climate.

We had a stable political climate? It was my understanding that everybody just hated everybody on the false creed that being born on a stupid piece of land actually meant something.
everyone hating everyone is still stable. there is nobody to drag into a war with you.

with the world becoming polarized about what should or should not be done in the middle east with revolutions and oppressive governments, the world suddenly has two distinct sides in an argument. the climate now has shifted to something very similar to the pre WW1 era.

I don't agree in the slightest. There is more tension but there is no air of militarism, nationalistic rivalries or colonial empires. Beyond that the world is far too linked economically to be comparable to pre WW1.

Moreover I do NOT see this starting WWIII. Could this theoretically be a stepping stone to problems later on? Absolutely, but that could be said about anything. We simply don't know. But folks, this will not start WWIII. If the Russian-Georgian war didn't, this wont. Russia and CHian don't have the strength to oppose NATO and they wouldn't want to, not over the Middle East democracy movements. Remember, a small proxy war can be good for business or political goals; a total war is not.
As to political climate, i was referring more to the polarization on issues, with two distinct sides.

as to WW3 being total war, i doubt that too. there will never be wars fought on that level again. that kind of war is far harmful to everyone involved. However a world war that is only a world war simply due to the number of countries involved, that i can see.

  • 06.17.2011 6:09 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

LIBYA
Gaddafi's government claims to have opened talks with the NTC according to the Libyan Prime Minister.

NATO strikes have started focusing on the western front line, allowing for the opposition to make significant gains towards Tripoli.

NATO is jamming all radio communications for Gaddafi forces on the front line, constantly demanding their surrender.

Pro-Gaddafi cells in Benghazi have been found with NEW surface to air missiles with Russian Defence Ministry serial numbers. The Rebels turned the weapons over to NATO.

Helicopters marked only by the NATO compass rose were seen dropping masked troops off into Benghazi. Approximately 40 soldiers were left behind.

YEMEN
Saleh is expected to return to Yemen in the coming days, according to the Yemeni government, however, the Saudi government says they have no intention of sending him home, saying "Ali Abdullah Saleh will not return home to Yemen"

SYRIA
The Tribal leaders of Syria have started handing out weapons to the civilians in the north of the country, saying if fired upon, fire back.

A crackdown in Homs has begun, with constant machine gun fire being heard.

  • 06.17.2011 6:33 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

its a little off topic, but relates to the escalating tensions between NATO and Russia.

Russia and NATO hold talks annually, usually about keeping peace. This year however(talks begin on Monday in Brussels)Russia has demanded NATO turn over details on their new missile defense system, or risk Military action on NATO.

I've always pushed 'Russia is not the bad guy' but it really looks like they want to go to war with NATO.

EDIT: my apologies, the condition was to turn over information OR shut down the new program.

Russia says that the new missile defense system is a 'threat to Russian defense'

[Edited on 06.17.2011 9:00 AM PDT]

  • 06.17.2011 8:51 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

All Russia needs is a commie leader and it's the cold war all over again.

  • 06.17.2011 8:55 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

update to the russia/NATO tensions thing:

my apologies, the condition was to turn over information OR shut down the new missile defense program.

Russia says that the new missile defense system is a 'threat to Russian defense'

  • 06.17.2011 9:04 AM PDT
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Why all the sudden aggro from Russia? I mean, they know that in a war between NATO and themselves, they would lose. Why are they being so difficult?

  • 06.17.2011 9:08 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: chucky chief
Why all the sudden aggro from Russia? I mean, they know that in a war between NATO and themselves, they would lose. Why are they being so difficult?
I honestly don't think that they want a real war with NATO. a massive war like that would hurt them just as it would NATO, and in the unbalanced world economy of today, it just doesn't make sense. I think the threats are all part of political maneuvering that is designed to make NATO think twice about doing anything that will put Russian interests at risk.

  • 06.17.2011 9:12 AM PDT

are those Surface to Air Missile found in the hands of Pro Gaddafi force current, or old like the SA-8's.

because Libya before this started had a lot of Russian tech. i know they were set to get T-90 tanks but it was canceled after the arms embargo started.

  • 06.17.2011 9:13 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: Mereel N7
are those Surface to Air Missile found in the hands of Pro Gaddafi force current, or old like the SA-8's.

because Libya before this started had a lot of Russian tech. i know they were set to get T-90 tanks but it was canceled after the arms embargo started.
as in brand new. the serial numbers show them as manufactured in the last month and a half.

  • 06.17.2011 9:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Mereel N7
are those Surface to Air Missile found in the hands of Pro Gaddafi force current, or old like the SA-8's.

because Libya before this started had a lot of Russian tech. i know they were set to get T-90 tanks but it was canceled after the arms embargo started.
as in brand new. the serial numbers show them as manufactured in the last month and a half.


Are they very expensive and advanced? What i mean is, are they likely to be sold on the black market or is it something that the army has a tight grip on?

  • 06.17.2011 9:17 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: chucky chief

Posted by: Phoenix1330

Posted by: Mereel N7
are those Surface to Air Missile found in the hands of Pro Gaddafi force current, or old like the SA-8's.

because Libya before this started had a lot of Russian tech. i know they were set to get T-90 tanks but it was canceled after the arms embargo started.
as in brand new. the serial numbers show them as manufactured in the last month and a half.


Are they very expensive and advanced? What i mean is, are they likely to be sold on the black market or is it something that the army has a tight grip on?
pretty advanced, they are a fire and forget. The serial numbers according to Al Jazeera show them as manufactured in the past month and a half and purchased by the Russian defense ministry. They didn't name them, but called them 'advanced fire-and-forget heat seeking surface to air missiles'

I wouldn't rule out black market, but the rebels seem to imply that the Russian envoy, that just left Libya and had visited Tripoli and Benghazi, left them behind

[Edited on 06.17.2011 9:22 AM PDT]

  • 06.17.2011 9:20 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

TUNISIA
a small convoy of Libyan loyalists again tried to circumvent the rebels by crossing into Tunisia.

The convoy was destroyed by an airstrike from Tunisian jets.

  • 06.17.2011 9:26 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: lonepaul2441

Posted by: Phoenix1330
its a little off topic, but relates to the escalating tensions between NATO and Russia.

Russia and NATO hold talks annually, usually about keeping peace. This year however(talks begin on Monday in Brussels)Russia has demanded NATO turn over details on their new missile defense system, or risk Military action on NATO.

I've always pushed 'Russia is not the bad guy' but it really looks like they want to go to war with NATO.

EDIT: my apologies, the condition was to turn over information OR shut down the new program.

Russia says that the new missile defense system is a 'threat to Russian defense'
How is a missile "defense" system threatening Russia's defense?

Don't they only shoot down missiles? Also if Russia does know about this program and the tension building it could be used by russia to find away around it or disable it.

Things are not looking good mostly if using military action will be used just to get hold of some tech. Sadly France even said Russia our are friends now so we should treat them as such and is building them some new ships.

That could be a big mistake.
The Russian defense policy is 'a strong offense makes a great defense.' If their ability to attack with missiles is downgraded, they suddenly don't look so scary anymore.

That said, I really want to stress that a massive war is very unlikely. small military engagements. That is possible.

  • 06.17.2011 9:31 AM PDT
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Lonepaul, GET ON STEAM NOW.

  • 06.17.2011 9:35 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.


Posted by: lonepaul2441
Can the major powers clashing do small skirmishes?

Kinda seems unlikely because you want to win you put what ever resources you need into the fight and increase the numbers if you need to.
I don't think anyone can afford that.

  • 06.17.2011 9:35 AM PDT

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

SYRIA
After the proposed Syrian Resolution was vetoed by Russia and China, Britain and France put forth a new proposal for a UN human rights team to go into Syria, so that there was more data to go on before a resolution for intervention is tabled again. Russia and China vetoed this resolution as well. India also strongly opposed the resolution.

  • 06.17.2011 9:51 AM PDT
Subject: The Arab Spring, Focus on Libya, Syria and Yemen UPDATE381

Duracell.
I don't keep going and going and going and...
but i Start, and just don't Stop.

So what if the saxophone is black?
it has better tone the the gold one.
damn straight i play Jazz.

lets move away from NATO/RussiaChina relations and refocus here:

Libya
Canada, Britain and France admit to putting fresh special ops onto the ground in Benghazi, saying they are relief for the training liaisons there.

NATO unanimously agrees that if the Libyan operation's command deems it necessary, ground troops are authorized to be deployed. A little bit of contrast there compared to yesterday when NATO said ground troops would not be needed.

[Edited on 06.17.2011 10:21 AM PDT]

  • 06.17.2011 10:18 AM PDT

Col Muammar Gaddafi: Libya will defeat Nato

CNN said a activist in the camp they visited in Syria said they heard gunfire near by last night.

Ten suspected militants arrested in Yemen as battles continue

  • 06.17.2011 10:59 AM PDT

Gamers don't die, they just go offline.

"...and the fanboys will unite to slay the Call of Duty threat for the greater good of gaming."

No surprise that NATO are dropping Special Forces into Libya, kind of weird how Russia is still handing Pro-Gaddafi forces weapons.

  • 06.17.2011 11:16 AM PDT