Off Topic: The Flood
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Arab Spring, Focus on Libya, Syria, Egypt and Yemen UPDATE396
  • Subject: The Arab Spring, Focus on Libya, Syria, Egypt and Yemen UPDATE396

The cake is a pie

Looks like Libya is coming to an end at last. But Niger makes an exelent point. The nations infrastructure is damaged vastly. I certainly hope that NATO and other contributers provide neccesary help to reform it.


On another note, this is a chance for the rebels to reform their government. I for one hope they do not simlply choose a democracy, but a better political system. If there's one useful thing in the politics it's a political fresh start.

  • 07.23.2011 5:36 AM PDT


Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
See people, the public does NOT have the right to know what happens in a combat zone. No mater what the excuse, you...have...no...right.

As long as the public funds the operations, are represnted by those who pick the operations, and the government answers to the people, then yes the do have the right to know. Does that mean we should publish everything? Absolutely not, Spec Ops forces are not effective nor are they safe. But that's an issue of if we *should* know, or if the government *should release this information (the answer imo is no for both accounts), not an issue if the public has a right to it. But that's for Special Operations.

For combat zones in general the public absolutely has a right to know what goes on in them. Don't give out the -blam!- time sheet for your next attack but yes government SHOULD give (or allow the people the freedom to investigate) what goes on in combat zones.

[Edited on 07.23.2011 9:47 AM PDT]

  • 07.23.2011 9:46 AM PDT


Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: Ultermarto
Looks like Libya is coming to an end at last. But Niger makes an exelent point. The nations infrastructure is damaged vastly. I certainly hope that NATO and other contributers provide neccesary help to reform it.


On another note, this is a chance for the rebels to reform their government. I for one hope they do not simlply choose a democracy, but a better political system. If there's one useful thing in the politics it's a political fresh start.
I think the title "rebel" is no longer suited for them.

They should be called the Galactic Alliance.

  • 07.23.2011 9:48 AM PDT
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Gaddafi forces have boobytrapped vital petroleum installations in Brega so they can be blown up if his forces lose the town.

Mahmoud Jibril, the opposition diplomatic chief, characterised Brega on Thursday as a "big minefield" and said some oil installations were "full of bombs, explosives".


Well it looks like even Gaddafi now knows that he is on borrowed time. And there is also news of more talks of a ceasefire. [Its actually a surrender]

  • 07.23.2011 10:18 AM PDT
Subject: No Fly Zone Has been declared over Libya

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Posted by: Gunnar102
Things just got interesting...

  • 07.23.2011 10:24 AM PDT


Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: Dynex811

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
See people, the public does NOT have the right to know what happens in a combat zone. No mater what the excuse, you...have...no...right.

As long as the public funds the operations, are represnted by those who pick the operations, and the government answers to the people, then yes the do have the right to know. Does that mean we should publish everything? Absolutely not, Spec Ops forces are not effective nor are they safe. But that's an issue of if we *should* know, or if the government *should release this information (the answer imo is no for both accounts), not an issue if the public has a right to it. But that's for Special Operations.

For combat zones in general the public absolutely has a right to know what goes on in them. Don't give out the -blam!- time sheet for your next attack but yes government SHOULD give (or allow the people the freedom to investigate) what goes on in combat zones.
But that's the whole problem, they're going to publish everything they're told. It's safer just to keep it within the military community.

"A man who sacrifices freedom for safety deserves none" (paraphrased from Ben Franklin).

Sure it may be safer, but to say the public doesn't have the right to know what it is funding and electing leaders to lead; that's just wrong.

Remember, the government is meant to serve the people, not the other way around.

[Edited on 07.23.2011 11:46 PM PDT]

  • 07.23.2011 11:45 PM PDT


Posted by: lonepaul2441
You can know what team did what but what hes trying to say is the public doesn't need to know the personal identity of the members in the team.

Its fine saying the SAS just killed somebody important but we don't deserve to know who the men in the SAS squad are because there lives and their families lives are in danger.

That's what I said (or what I think I tried to say) earlier. Their identities need to be kept a secret not only to make them effective and keep them safe, but to keep their families safe as well. The latter part is what's even more important to me. Their families didn't do anything to deserve death threats. I think it was absolutely wrong for the AP to publish photos that don't hide their identities.

[Edited on 07.24.2011 12:30 PM PDT]

  • 07.24.2011 12:28 PM PDT


Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: Dynex811

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: Dynex811

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
See people, the public does NOT have the right to know what happens in a combat zone. No mater what the excuse, you...have...no...right.

As long as the public funds the operations, are represnted by those who pick the operations, and the government answers to the people, then yes the do have the right to know. Does that mean we should publish everything? Absolutely not, Spec Ops forces are not effective nor are they safe. But that's an issue of if we *should* know, or if the government *should release this information (the answer imo is no for both accounts), not an issue if the public has a right to it. But that's for Special Operations.

For combat zones in general the public absolutely has a right to know what goes on in them. Don't give out the -blam!- time sheet for your next attack but yes government SHOULD give (or allow the people the freedom to investigate) what goes on in combat zones.
But that's the whole problem, they're going to publish everything they're told. It's safer just to keep it within the military community.

"A man who sacrifices freedom for safety deserves none" (paraphrased from Ben Franklin).

Sure it may be safer, but to say the public doesn't have the right to know what it is funding and electing leaders to lead; that's just wrong.

Remember, the government is meant to serve the people, not the other way around.
Hate to say it but Tier 1 units don't rely on tax payer money, they're independently funded.

By whom?

  • 07.24.2011 3:55 PM PDT


Posted by: DoctorPsychology

Posted by: Dynex811

Posted by: lonepaul2441
You can know what team did what but what hes trying to say is the public doesn't need to know the personal identity of the members in the team.

Its fine saying the SAS just killed somebody important but we don't deserve to know who the men in the SAS squad are because there lives and their families lives are in danger.

That's what I said (or what I think I tried to say) earlier. Their identities need to be kept a secret not only to make them effective and keep them safe, but to keep their families safe as well.


It depends, if its a
"SEAL's did a raid on a terrorist home" thats okay

if its

"Navy SEAL's are doinf a classified ops where their safety is at risk or valuable military intelligence is at risk" than its not okay.

Regardless, releasing the identity of a soldier in a combat zone without their permission is wrong.

I agree.

  • 07.24.2011 3:56 PM PDT


Posted by: ExquisiteDragon
Posted by: Dynex811

Posted by: ExquisiteDragon

See people, the public does NOT have the right to know what happens in a combat zone. No mater what the excuse, you...have...no...right. [/quote]
As long as the public funds the operations, are represnted by those who pick the operations, and the government answers to the people, then yes the do have the right to know. Does that mean we should publish everything? Absolutely not, Spec Ops forces are not effective nor are they safe. But that's an issue of if we *should* know, or if the government *should release this information (the answer imo is no for both accounts), not an issue if the public has a right to it. But that's for Special Operations.

For combat zones in general the public absolutely has a right to know what goes on in them. Don't give out the -blam!- time sheet for your next attack but yes government SHOULD give (or allow the people the freedom to investigate) what goes on in combat zones.[/quote]But that's the whole problem, they're going to publish everything they're told. It's safer just to keep it within the military community. [/quote]
"A man who sacrifices freedom for safety deserves none" (paraphrased from Ben Franklin).

Sure it may be safer, but to say the public doesn't have the right to know what it is funding and electing leaders to lead; that's just wrong.

Remember, the government is meant to serve the people, not the other way around.[/quote]Hate to say it but Tier 1 units don't rely on tax payer money, they're independently funded.

By whom?
They're independently funded by a small portion of tax payer money but majority comes from international funding. And we're making bank...especially since the new Iraqi government has requested special forces remain in Iraq to help train the new military.

That first part in bold doesn't make any sense. That small portion of tax payer money cannot be independently funded. Even if the rest of it is independent, that particular portion is not.

Also I'm not trying to attack you here, but do know who funds them? You said international funding but who is that? Other governments? Corporations? Where does the money come from?

  • 07.24.2011 9:30 PM PDT

One of my ideas.

Feline Doom : Steampunk mecha anime with kitties.

Holy mother of Jesus Grandma. This is still active.

  • 07.24.2011 9:37 PM PDT